₦airaland Forum

MadCow1:
100 Dollars = 25,000 Naira..

Minimum Wage in some States are as low as 5 Dollars a day. AN HOUR.

Do you know how many days you would have to work to make a hundred dollars.



#PrayForNigeria

I dont think you are getting the point being made by the poster.

Fines are paid from the offender's finances/income.

Income is a function of the country and the "standard" of living.
In some countries, that $5 is a monthly income, while in some, it is[b] an income for "One Hour" low-paid job![/b]
In Nigeria, some TEACHERS earn less than that in A MONTH. Yes, l know this for a fact.

Thus, l have not seen where a Traffic offender is asked to pay say "THREE TIMES THEIR MONTHLY INCOME", (without them killing somebody! or being a repeat offender, in which case, the fine becomes a "deliberately PUNITIVE fine", imposed by the Judge).

Let us take over-speeding as an example.
In most Western Countries, the fine is around 60GBP, 90Euros, $100... with between 2 and 3 penalty points.
That amount is what most people (averagely poor people) earn in ONE DAY.

In Nigeria, by our low level of income/standard of living, that should equate to about #1,000 (One thousand Naira) going by an "average" Monthly Income of say #25,000.

Now, to fine someone in Nigeria, #75,000 for a traffic violation, will translate to fining the same person, if in the Western Clime (USA, U.K, Canada, Europe, et.c.) about $60,000, 50GBP or 45,000 Euros!

That you will agree is IMPOSSIBLE..... for minor traffic infractions like over-speeding or even Jumping a red Light.
I have done it before and l have paid that fine (with the Penalty Points to boot) so l am talking from personal experience.... and not just mouthing it.

Thus, Traffice offence FINES need to be REASONABLE and in tandem with average INCOMES of the particular clime.

That is what the poster was inferring.
I know, you know but you are just being provocative.

Mind you, l am not endorsing "bad road behaviour" as it is a danger to everyone but l am also not endorsing "killing a fly with a sledge-hammer".


Thanks.




Lastpage!

anonimi:
No one is CORRUPT in the assembly of APC progreTHIEF saints oh.
Not even their Sai Bubu.

Get a Life, this Eediot!

Seems you are suffering from "Mad Cow" disease!

Everything does not start and end with Buhari



Lastpage!

Pls Vote for Smart Cbt click this link https:///MFYpnpJDEt and share by clicking the share button

lastpage:
Get a Life, this Eediot!

Seems you are suffering from "Mad Cow" disease!

Everything does not start and end with Buhari

Lastpage!

You must be speaking about yourself with mad cow disease.
I thought Buhari is the president of our country and C-in-C?
Has he RESIGNED or has he been IMPEACHED



www.nairaland.com/attachments/2837478_apczombie_jpeg18e83b86a22c6378b2e3f37984ea3432

lastpage:
I think we need to put things in perspective here:
We need to strike a balance between criminality, enforcement of the law and human rights.

While the video did not proffer "incontrovertible reason" for this arrest ....and hence we cant state categorically whether the driver was guilty or not, we can at least "jaw-jaw" on what we saw in the video.

1.) We never heard the LASTMA staff say "You did x, y, z offence"..... all we saw was them trying to hijack the vehicle by force

2.) If it is true that he had a flat tire, did he push the vehicle off the road or was he as usual with these danfo drivers, trying to change tires right in the middle of the road and thereby causing "obstruction of traffic"?

3.) Did the LASTMA staff assists or even attempt to assist him push the vehicle off the road or were they just interested in "arrest and fine" .... hopefully a compromise of "Egunje" will be offered? These guys need to understand that there primary responsibility is to assist in the free-flow of traffic! Arresting and fine are secondary matters.

4.) Are there (and are drivers aware) of stipulated amou[/b]nts to pay as fine, for specific traffic offences or is it up to the LASTMA official to just "make-up" some amount and impose same on the drivers?

In a country where average basic income is less than #15,000,[b] how can you impose a fine of #70,000 on someone, for a traffic offence?
Is that "amount reasonable" and expected to be payable or are we forcing people to become "desperate and aggressive" ...towards a law that is supposed to be "corrective"?

I know these "commercial drivers" are a "nightmare" but we need to develop robust ways to deal with them.

5.) Going by my own experience, l can say "some" of these LASTMA staff are worse than "Street urchins" (Agbero!)!
They are just after enriching their own pockets.... at all cost, no matter how devilish they act in the course of that!
Like someone said "Criminals in uniform", ...........is not restricted to the Police alone.

They lack any form of human-management skills, yet they are expected to work with the public.
In that video, would it not have been better to "calm down" that driver, make some assurances to him that he will be treated fairly, and then explain what he has done wrong to him and how he has broken the law.... and the penalties for same?

Rather, the LASTMA man was busy wresting the Key away and trying to start the vehicle so he can impound it!
How professional is that?
What if the vehicle is started inadvertently in the process and crushes one or more people during the struggle?
How about just calling-in the Police to arrest the driver, assuming he has really committed and offence and is resisting the law?

More importantly is that "No one should be able to use the "wearing of Uniform" to abuse, intimidate and harass Nigerians.
Nobody, whether Uniformed or not, is above the law of the land.
Every humanbieng deserves some level of dignity and respect...... Danfo drivers included.

LASTMA staff need to be properly trained and the use of Agencies like that, to "settle" (employ) "Political Thugs" is very undesirable.
Same goes for TOUTS of Ministries like regional and Urban Planning, Environment, Local Governments, e.t.c

On the flip side, Govt must continue to educate these Commercial drivers (Enlightenment Campaigns should be taken to their Parks on P.A Systems) and be told clearly on what and what constitutes infringement of the traffic law as most of them are not trained drivers nor educated!
When this is done regularly, offenders should be dealt with accordingly.... but in a civilized manner.

Yes, Impound the vehicle for "deliberate infractions" like driving against traffic or dropping/picking passengers at wrong spots, dangerous driving, jumping traffic lights, e.t.c, for which they are notorious for ....( not like when one gets a flat tire, which can happen to anyone at anytime),....
.... and let them pay a reasonable amount to collect it back.


My Take.



Lastpage!

na wa o

today I'm agreeing with lastpage and opposing madcow1

what is happening

justi4jesu:
I disagree with you, he should pay the 70k fine, next time when he thinks about the 70k he won't repeat what he did. In civilized countries only the cameras on the roads will flash you and your car number will be recorded. You must pay your fine, no two ways about it. Speed limit will be 100km/ph, Just drive a little above that speed limit and the camera360 that will flash you eh, nobody will tell you to reduce your speed and drive the speed limit you see on the roads. Obey the rules so that the people you call Agberos won't create an avenue to exploit your pocket.

You are not entirely correct on that.

You are allowed a 10% over the stated limit ....otherwise everyone will have their face glued to the Speedometer..... instead of driving sensibly!

If its 100 Km/h, you are still safe as long as you dont go beyond 110 km/h
If its is 60 Km/h... then just hover between 60 and 66Km/h .... but if you exceed that by even 1km, you are done for it.


Having said that, the issue is not whether he should be fined or not. He SHOULD be fined.

The issue is the AMOUNT.... relative to his income.... which also determines his "ability to pay".

Fining someone an amount YOU KNOW they cannot pay.... is tantamount to imposing a "mandatory jail term", ... for a "non-jailable" offence!
That my friend is not how "Justice" Operates.



Lastpage!

kYjelly2:
na wa o

today I'm agreeing with lastpage and opposing madcow1

what is happening

It shows that if you and many others remove "tribal rantings", we can all be on the "same page"... which ofcourse is the "Lastpage"!

Let us go to another thread and fight!

Seriously, l think @MadCow has been smoking "igbo" of recent!



Lastpage!

anonimi:
You must be speaking about yourself with mad cow disease.
I thought Buhari is the president of our country and C-in-C?
Has he RESIGNED or has he been IMPEACHED

#WAILER!


Lastpage!

lastpage:
#WAILER!

Lastpage!

Proud to be so identified.



www.nairaland.com/attachments/2831915_wailingforabettertommorow_jpeg_jpegd26a773a99cf2b0f93fe685761f614da

anonimi:
Proud to be so identified.



[img]

You are #WAILING for your belly!

Poor Soul like you!

Nobody "#Wails for a better Nigeria....

.... We SUPPORT the Government in Power and put our Mouth where our Money is.

We criticize ... but we do it constructively!

Not blaming Buhari because one danfo driver was over-speeding!

That is #Wailing for chop-money, Anger, hatred and Bitterness over the last election!

Now, Sod-off before l give you an E-Slap!



Lastpage!

lastpage:
It shows that if you and many others remove "tribal rantings", we can all be on the "same page"... which ofcourse is the "Lastpage"!

Let us go to another thread and fight!

Seriously, l think @MadCow has been smoking "igbo" of recent!



Lastpage!

omg #dead

kYjelly2:
omg #dead

Wake Up Please!

I love you, please dont go!

ROFL

Dont mind me, am just a small boy!



Lastpage!

Do you really use KY Jelly to..... mstbt?

lastpage:
You are #WAILING for your belly!

Poor Soul like you!

Nobody "#Wails for a better Nigeria....

.... We SUPPORT the Government in Power and put our Mouth where our Money is

We criticize ... but we do it constructively!

Not blaming Buhari because one danfo driver was over-speeding!

That is #Wailing for chop-money, Anger, hatred and Bitterness over the last election![/color]

Now, Sod-off before l give you an E-Slap!


Lastpage!

I did not realise that you are AGIP- Any Government in Power and you support the government in power every time.
What a revelation.

It is understandable that you get your chop-money from such AGIP support.
Good luck!

kYjelly2:
Good points but...

Firstly, ion think there is any state in the U.S were min wage is 5 bucks per day, though I could be wrong.

Its been a while since I last worked in the U.S or Canada. The last time I was applying for a job at Micky D's, It was 4.50 an hour. Now I think its between 7.50 and 10Bucks.. Still that's a stack of doe even by U.S standards. And don't forget that failure to make payments also attracts interests..

kYjelly2:
Next, I obviously believe that a premium should be placed on the safety of human life, but in that case the fines would vary with the offence, which I'm all for. Like we both said, one way drivers should be arrested and fined heavily.

Tell me what Traffic Offence carries the least likely possibility of costing human life..

You see how tricky it gets.

kYjelly2:
The problem arises from the mean fine placed on offenders in Nigeria and even in the case of the OP, the said driver had done nothing to endanger human lives. Thus the fine given to him doesn't tally with his offence.

The OP didn't clarify what exactly the Drivers Offence was.

The OP did not also specify if the Driver was a repeat offender.

So before judging the justification of his fine, Do well to get all the facts of the matter first.

kYjelly2:
I was once stopped in lekki for holding my phone while driving, even though I wasn't making a call (it was just in my right hand at the '2' position and my left was on the wheel as well) and asked to dole put 40k

Of course the police guy told me that he would take a bribe of way less if I'm game

I was just thinking to myself, so if I earn like 100k, 40k would just be gone like that for a non-serious offence

Well.. Even if we increased the Minimum wage to 100 Thousand and kept the base fine at 25,000.. There would still people who cant afford the fines.

And just because an officer has accused you of an offence does not make you culpable. Even abroad, people go to court, challenge their tickets and fines and win.

kYjelly2:
I really believe we can do better and be more organized.

There is always room for improvement for every system.

kYjelly2:
Yes as u said, offences involving the endangerment of human lives should have high fees associated with them, but common offences like obstruction, which is the case in the OP shouldn't be so.

Obstruction of Traffic costs the economy money. The rules are simple, when you approach a Bus Stop, Clear properly and pick up and discharge your passengers. But they never adhere to it.


You will forgive me, but I have no mercy on these transporters. They are responsible for over 75% of the Traffic gridlock experienced in most Major Cities. They drive with reckless abandon and act above the law with no regard for other road users.

Fines are made to serve as a deterrent. If the fear of 70"k does not dissuade a person from breaking the law, not 100'k or 10'k would.

lastpage:
You are not entirely correct on that.

You are allowed a 10% over the stated limit ....otherwise everyone will have their face glued to the Speedometer..... instead of driving sensibly!

If its 100 Km/h, you are still safe as long as you dont go beyond 110 km/h
If its is 60 Km/h... then just hover between 60 and 66Km/h .... but if you exceed that by even 1km, you are done for it.


Having said that, the issue is not whether he should be fined or not. He SHOULD be fined.

The issue is the AMOUNT.... relative to his income.... which also determines his "ability to pay".

Fining someone an amount YOU KNOW they cannot pay.... is tantamount to imposing a "mandatory jail term", ... for a "non-jailable" offence!
That my friend is not how "Justice" Operates.



Lastpage!

Lol at 10% i don't take such risk, If its 80km/h, I stick to that because the day you forget and match too much gas hoping 10% is allowed, it might end up reaching 11% He should pay the fine no stories jor. That's how they kill pedestrians unnecessarily, passing one way up and down. He should even be fined 100k, no mercy

lastpage:
It shows that if you and many others remove "tribal rantings", we can all be on the "same page"... which ofcourse is the "Lastpage"!

Let us go to another thread and fight!

Seriously, l think @MadCow has been smoking "igbo" of recent!



Lastpage!

Chai.. Lastpage ..


I have taken the liberty of pulling the fine rates from the LASTMA website.

This way we have a reference to debate with.

Tell me what your take is on the rates contained therein.

anonimi:
I did not realise that you are AGIP- Any Government in Power and you support the government in power every time.
What a revelation.

It is understandable that you get your chop-money from such AGIP support.
Good luck!

That my "SaTANoid" Friend, is my CIVIC RESPONSIBILITY...... and l take it seriously, irrespective of whether that Government is from my Tribe or not.

You are getting closer and closer to that E-Slap... than you think!


Lastpage!

MadCow1:
Chai.. Lastpage ..


I have taken the liberty of pulling the fine rates from the LASTMA website.

This way we have a reference to debate with.

Tell me what your take is on the rates contained therein.

Let me quickly acknowledge and thank you for doing this.
Could you please post a link?
Its tiny and old age wouldn't allow me see it properly!


Lastpage!

Edit: I am there, no bother

justi4jesu:
Lol at 10% i don't take such risk, If its 80km/h, I stick to that because the day you forget and match too much gas hoping 10% is allowed, it might end up reaching 11% He should pay the fine no stories jor. That's how they kill pedestrians unnecessarily, passing one way up and down. He should even be fined 100k, no mercy

Let me tell you what l do.

I set my Speedometer to 10Km above actual speed (I love speed, make l no lie! )
So, when l am doing 50Km on my dash display, l am actually doing 40Km in real terms!

In most cases, when l think "l have been caught again".... but then l realise l am actually not over the limit yet!... because l have given myself a 10Km leeway!

I do same with my Wall Clock.
Its ten minutes ahead of normal time. It has saved me a number of times when l think l am late.... only to discover l have that "Ten Minutes" God has just dashed me!

Cunny-man die, Cunny-man bury am.

What do you think?\



Lastpage!

MadCow1:
Chai.. Lastpage ..


I have taken the liberty of pulling the fine rates from the LASTMA website.

This way we have a reference to debate with.

Tell me what your take is on the rates contained therein.

Which particular one do you have in mind?

For example, look at the capture below:
I would think that there should be "zero tolerance" for operating a vehicle that is not certified as "road worthy" (If we actually test the vehicle as against just collecting money and issuing a "Worthless Certificate" .... moreso one that will be used to carry "members of the Public" for a fee!

Can you imagine that such offence has no financial penalty? NO FINE, just impound and ask them to go and buy the Certificate later!
Yet we have a fine of #50,000 for "abandoning a Vehicle on the Highway" .... with a six months imprisonment to boot!

Now tell me, Have you never seen a vehicle abandoned on the Highway in all these foreign countries?
I have seen it and continue to see it EVERYDAY!
Should those owners be jailed for six months?
Do they even think anyone likes to abandon their vehicle on the Highway (where it could be vandalised or stolen or even set on fire?)
Do they realize the trauma such owners go through, to abandon the vehicle in such places?
Do they not reaalize that the vehicle may have just "packed-up" or be even out of fuel...

.... and that warrant a #50,000 fine and Six Months jail term yet carrying passengers in a "dangerous vehicle" is free once you can buy the certificate "Later"!


You see the irrationality in our LAWS?
You are welcome .



Lastpage!

africwap01:
This is Nigeria so expect to see anything and don't be suprised.

Really? let this driver try this nonsense in a civilised country, he would have been shot with a stun gun

IyaIode:
Really? let this driver try this nonsense in a civilised country, he would have been shot with a stun gun

And you'd think the Traffic Warden in a "civilised country" would act the way that LASTMA official is acting... like a THUG?

Or you'd think they would impose a fine of three months wage on a driver because he had a flat tire?

If l ha d a flat tire in that "civilised country" ... the best thing l do is to call a Police man to "assist me" in pushing it off the road, and they willing oblige... and happily too.

Let not just make comments about these "civilised country" without balancing our comments, at least we are assumed to be talking from "experience" and not some "phantom knowledge" of what obtains!




Lastpage!

TCD:
this is what happens when you put illiterate touts in offices of responsibility. They have no slightest idea of rule of law, conduct and human rights.

One of the numerous reasons why some people refer to Nigeria as a zoo.

B.S like this happens everyday in Nigeria.

lastpage:
And you'd think the Traffic Warden in a "civilised country" would act the way that LASTMA official is acting... like a THUG?

Or you'd think they would impose a fine of three months wage on a driver because he had a flat tire?

If l ha d a flat tire in that "civilised country" ... the best thing l do is to call a Police man to "assist me" in pushing it off the road, and they willing oblige... and happily too.

Let not just make comments about these "civilised country" without balancing our comments, at least we are assumed to be talking from "experience" and not some "phantom knowledge" of what obtains!




Lastpage!

Acting like a thug how? You have an offender struggling with a law enforcement officer, he would have been stunned in saner society.

Thereafter he would face separate charges for assault.

Is the driver being held for a flat tire? I have seen lastma officers help people push their broken vehicles

LATSMA = STREET/TRAFFIC THUGS.

coolar:
Did you watch the video?

Did you read the details?

Your comment is parallel to the reality.

I only saw the Lastma official struggling to get into a vehicle. The cameraman never captured what led to the scuffle. He may have broken traffic rules, should he have been let go? If you move around in Lagos you'd see so many people driving like they've gone insane. If they get caught, they start struggling with the officials and play victim. I stand by my statement, if the driver broke any rules, then he must be punished accordingly.

IyaIode:
Acting like a thug how? You have an offender struggling with a law enforcement officer, he would have been stunned in saner society.

Thereafter he would face separate charges for assault.

Is the driver being held for a flat tire? I have seen lastma officers help people push their broken vehicles

That was the information from the Video and text of the post. read it again please.

And l have never seen where Traffic enforcement officers struggle with Drivers... in saner societies!
Since it is not a "jailable" offence.... why the struggle over obstruction due to a flat tire?

They simply issue a fine and stick it to your windscreen and they are off.!

"Action".... and "Reaction", they say, are EQUAL and OPPOSITE"
That is the First law of Motion in Physics.

You "Push" ... you get PUSHED!



Lastpage!

Lastma Officials Shame On You Guys! http://www.bummyla.com

lastpage:
That was the information from the Video and text of the post. read it again please.

And l have never seen where Traffic enforcement officers struggle with Drivers... in saner societies!
Since it is not a "jailable" offence.... why the struggle over obstruction due to a flat tire?

They simply issue a fine and stick it to your windscreen and they are off.!

"Action".... and "Reaction", they say, are EQUAL and OPPOSITE"
That is the First law of Motion in Physics.

You "Push" ... you get PUSHED!



Lastpage!

I give it to you then

IyaIode:
I give it to you then

Respect Maam.



Lastpage!