₦airaland Forum

agaugust:
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Let us see how far we wrecked SANDF, SAAF, and SAN this weekend

⚫⚫ "Delivery of SDPP’s started in 2005 with frigates and submarines and was followed by LIFT aircraft in 2006, maritime helicopters in 2007 and fighter aircraft in 2009. The impression by many was that Link-ZA compliance by SDPP acquisition projects would imply message exchange inter-operability between all these platforms.

Disappointingly it was found that most platforms could only exchange information between similar type platforms ."

Source: Year 2011 research/report http://www.argospress.com/jbt/article_abstracts/14-3-2-abstract.pdf

SANDF Link ZA is an 80% failure, army, navy, air force CANNOT communicate with each other !

Even Gripen CANNOT communicate with Hawk, it can only use the data link Gripen to Gripen.

SAAF cannot use the FAKE tactical data link to send messages to SANDF artillery !

Link ZA ia a failure, South Africa DOES NOT have a functioning fully integrated Tactical Data Link !





⚫⚫ "Saab has a long experience in development of radars for fighter aircraft. PS-05/A for the Gripen aircraft has been in service since 1992. At present, the Gripen with PS-05/A operates in several countries.

Reference customers include the air forces of Sweden, South Africa, Hungary, the Czech Republic and Thailand."

http://saab.com/air/sensor-systems/fighter-radar/ps-05-a/

SAAF Gripen flies with obsolete 25 year old radar !!

JF-17 has year 2005 radar, more modern than SAAF Gripen !!

Photo: JF-17 Thunder's modern radar[/size]
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AugustineAgain:
Darren Oliver is a mere journalist who writes on defence for his newspaper. Simple....he works for a newspaper NOT a military organization or defence industry. He is an ordinary journalist.

AugustineAgain:
Darren Oliver is a mere journalist who writes on defence for his newspaper. Simple....he works for a newspaper NOT a military organization or defence industry. He is an ordinary journalist.

Last year I corrected he was talking rubbish about Angolan Su-30 and South African military experts like Helmod Heitman were correctinig his errors, I also corrected him on A-Darter range
...LOL....Darren is a mere newspaper journalist, writing on defence matters like other thousands of defence news correspondents and journalists all over the world......or is he an ex-air force pilot?

LOL.....he is a mere journalist.

agaugust:
It was a research, and the case has been closed in 2011, a man that died in 2011 won't be alive in 2016....SANDF Link ZA tactical data link died tactically in 2011 and remains in the grave till today 2016 as nothing has changed.

SANDF Link ZA failed data link = basic Inter-com device used in people's offices
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AugustineAgain:
Darren Oliver is a mere journalist who writes on defence for his newspaper. Simple....he works for a newspaper NOT a military organization or defence industry. He is an ordinary journalist.

agaugust:
Show us proof from SAAB that the PS/05 mk3 that can track a 0.5m2 at 120km, and show us proof also that SAAF has mk 3 version that did not exist in 1999 when SAAF purchased Gripen jet.

Now show us official proof of those two claims...liar !!
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jln115:
I already posted citations my ret@rded Friend.. More times than you can count.

Also the mk3 was available...we received our first Gripen in 2008!

jln115:
Fact is, his published and you're not!!

patches689:
The paper outlines how Link-ZA was intergrated after they had initial difficulty

Admirals and Generals clearly outlined how Link-ZA was used at the world cup

Its really quite pathetic that you have abandoned logical arguments and no rely on farce.

agaugust:
Why should I be published ? I am not a jiurnalist that writes for a newspaper and publishes it.

Our job is not the same. Darren reports to a news editor, Augustine reports to a PMC retired Colonel and war veteran of the USA military.

#MY C.V. INTIMIDATES EVERY SOUTH AFRCAN
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agaugust:
Nope, you posted NO SOURCE NO PROOF nothing official !!!

Mk 3 radar came to existance only in year 2005, six year after SAAF Gripen had been specs defined, radar selected, contract signed, purchased and paid for ! Delivery date does not matter, in a contract you get what you signed for.

SAAF purchased Gripen in year 1999 and paid for available radar, Mk 1 of 25 years ago now obsolete.

I proved that as confirmed by SAAB official website
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patches689:
Sources from SAAF and SAN have shown it is fully operational

Are the Admirals and Generals now liars?

jln115:
The Gripen NG dosent exist yet, but Brazil are purchasing them?? See how retaarded your arguments are??

We sighed a deal with SAAB for Gripen C/D which comes standard with PS/O5 mk3 we received our first in 2008.

agaugust:
Brazil is buying Gripen NG that did not exist when they paid. South Africa is different you bought Gripen C that was fully existing before you piad in 1999.

Show us source, officially confirming SAAF got Mk 3 radar that did not exist when you signed contract, prove your claims, I have asked you for the past two days, yet you CANNOT prove anything, you just keep making noises like a talkative parrot !

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agaugust:
They all thought it was going to work, but after 2010 mass failure, the 2011 research was conducted on Link ZA true operational performance and final report says in 2011....valid and unchanged till today 2016 :

"Delivery of SDPP’s started in 2005 with frigates and submarines and was followed by LIFT aircraft in 2006, maritime helicopters in 2007 and fighter aircraft in 2009. The impression by many was that Link-ZA compliance by SDPP acquisition projects would imply message exchange inter-operability between all these platforms.

Disappointingly it was found that most platforms could only exchange information between similar type platforms ."

Source: Year 2011 research/report http://www.argospress.com/jbt/article_abstracts/14-3-2-abstract.pdf

South African military has NO functioning tactical data link. SANDF got intranet/jntercom link

CASE CLOSED
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Iblawi1:
Stupid Liars.
You guys claimed link za started operating fully in 2009 when agaugust brought a link dating 2008, he brought another one for 2011 and you are now claiming it's became fully operational in 2012. You guys are big Liars.
Am sure if he brings another for 2016 you will claim 2017 again.

Fraudsters

agaugust:
SANDF Link ZA failed data link = basic Inter-com device used in people's offices

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agaugust:
They all thought it was going to work, but after 2010 mass failure, the 2011 research was conducted on Link ZA true operational performance and final report says in 2011....valid and unchanged till today 2016 :

"Delivery of SDPP’s started in 2005 with frigates and submarines and was followed by LIFT aircraft in 2006, maritime helicopters in 2007 and fighter aircraft in 2009. The impression by many was that Link-ZA compliance by SDPP acquisition projects would imply message exchange inter-operability between all these platforms.

Disappointingly it was found that most platforms could only exchange information between similar type platforms ."

Source: Year 2011 research/report http://www.argospress.com/jbt/article_abstracts/14-3-2-abstract.pdf

South African military has NO functioning tactical data link. SANDF got intranet/jntercom link

CASE CLOSED
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Iblawi1:
Stupid Liars.
You guys claimed link za started operating fully in 2009 when agaugust brought a link dating 2008, he brought another one for 2011 and you are now claiming it's became fully operational in 2012. You guys are big Liars.
Am sure if he brings another for 2016 you will claim 2017 again.

Fraudsters

jln115:
I don't know what your delusional definition of COIN warfare is, but our operations in the DRC and CAR recently , was none other than COIN operations regardless of there time span.

M23 at one point was the most powerful rebel/insurgent group in Africa, even more powerful than BH.

They had access to multiple weapon platforms including a number of T55 Tanks and reportedly T72s as well.

Since the inception of the UNs FIB it took them a matter of months to destroy M23 strongholds and ultimately led to the surrender of the M23.

The Battle of Bangui is another example of the SANDFs superior COIN skills, even without air support, 200 Paratroopers/SFs were able to hold out against 3000+ heavily armed Seleka rebels untill Seleka surrendered.

As I said before, you are the most deraling person on this thread!

Pic: SAS Spioenkop

Henry240:
That you continue to believe this lie you always tell yourselves is simply astonishing.


The CAR showed the SANDF is a very weak force, there is no evidence that shows Seleka raised any flag at all..... Not to talk about white. The evidence the world saw is only a few hours after brushing aside SANDF members, SELEKA took over the capital.

If they were severely degraded like dodgy South-African sources like to claim, believe you me, they won't have had the resources to take bangui, Bozizze's forces would have repelled them. After all they received "superior" South-African training.




-Did M23 deploy VBIEDs, IEDs or suicide vests against FIB troops?

- DId M23 deploy rockets against FIB troops?

- Is M23 a purely non-conventional force with no clear chain of command?

- Did M23 deploy "hit & Run" tactics against FIB troops?

- Did M23 rebels have significant local support in the areas they operated?

.........So how are they even remotely the same?



M23 had already been degraded by Congolese and Tanzanian forces before the SANDF joined the party. The warfare in the DRC and Congo is strictly semi-conventional, not un-conventional or COIN Nigerian troops faced against terrorists in the N.E or Mali.

jln115:
Uhm....Seleka commanders stated that the SANDF and I qoute"carved us up"!! .

Also Selekas surrender is well documented, the SANDF just like the French troops were not there to protect the capital...OR did Seleka defeat the French to??

- Yes the M23 did use IEDs

- Yes the M23 did use rocket launchers and Tanks against the FIB

- M23 had a well documented chain of command, they also had their own unique uniform and Ranks.

- M23 were backed by Rwanda

The M23 were the most powerful insurgents group in Africa before the FIB was established.
And South Africa were deployed in the DRC at the same time as Tanzania.

Henry240:
Clearly shows the SANDF has no experience dealing with groups like BH, Shabaab, AQIM.

jln115:
Uhm....Seleka commanders stated that the SANDF and I qoute"carved us up"!! .

Also Selekas surrender is well documented, the SANDF just like the French troops were not there to protect the capital...OR did Seleka defeat the French to??

- Yes the M23 did use IEDs

- Yes the M23 did use rocket launchers and Tanks against the FIB

- M23 had a well documented chain of command, they also had their own unique uniform and Ranks.

- M23 were backed by Rwanda

The M23 were the most powerful insurgents group in Africa before the FIB was established.
And South Africa were deployed in the DRC at the same time as Tanzania.

jln115:
How?? We never went to CAR, to defeat Seleka, if we did, they would've ended up like the M23!!

Henry240:
1. They (Seleka commanders) said no such thing. There is not a single shred of evidence which supports that story, excerpt doggy South-African newspapers.


2. The fact Seleka took over the CAR only a few hours later proves that claim is a lie!

- 3[b] Nope Seleka surrender isn't remotely documented, the news agencies on the ground do not support any claim of Seleka surrender.
[/b]

4. Did Seleka engage the French?

-5. M23 did not use suicide vests, VBIEDs or IEDs or any sort of improvised explosive device. They are purely a semi-conventional force with uniforms.


- 6. Nope, they primarily used RPGs at close enough distances, none of them used "rockets".

- 7. Irrelevant, did M23 "Libya style" arms smuggling..... None. Claims of Rwandan support are unsubstantiated.


No..... They were/are not.


8.Tanzania and Congo did the bulk of the decimation before the SANDF deployed.

Henry240:
What you went there to do is completely irrelevant, that the SANDF suffered a crushing defeat in the CAR, fled, while the French and MISCA clean up your mess is all that is relevant.

jln115:
1. They had very good weapons and very good fighters,” said corporal Mohamed Tahir

The rebels said the SA troops made it “very, very difficult” for them to take the town and sweep president Francoir Bozize from power. The fight put up by the SA troops was so ferocious he believed they were facing over 400 men – almost double the actual number.

“They had every kind of weapon that they were fighting against us with – heavy weapons,” said Tahir. “It was a very difficult battle. We lost more than half of the the men only in my unit of 500 men.”

http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2013/04/03/sa-soldiers-carved-us-up-say-rebels Timeslive is an accredited and respected news outlet, the journalist conducting the interviews were also physically in CAR.

2. They took the capital, as it wasnt our objective to protect it.

3. Yes it is.

http://www.iol.co.za/sundayindependent/how-deadly-car-battle-unfolded-1.1493841 The article was written by Helmoed Heitman, a respected military annalist /journalist and served on the Defence Review Committee from 2011 to the end of 2013. He is also a Janes Defence weekly correspondent

4. Doesnt matter, just like it wasnt the French Armys mandate to protect the capital, niether was it ours

5. M23 have used IEDs : http://www.securitycouncilreport.org/atf/cf/%7B65BFCF9B-6D27-4E9C-8CD3-CF6E4FF96FF9%7D/s_2014_42.pdf

6. M23 had T55 tanks(reportedly even had a few T72s), 23mm and 37mm cannons , RPGs , Rocket launchers , mortars , heavy machine guns and even had SAMs

Defence analyst Helmoet Heitman added: “What worries me is that M23 have some rocket launchers and they captured twin-barrel 37mm anti-aircraft weapons from the Congolese army. They have dangerous weapons.

“We need to make sure we have good intelligence before we go somewhere. Our troops should be better armed and equipped. After that (CAR fight), no rebel troops will want to fight South Africa.”
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/New-war-looms-for-SA-troops-20130407

http://reliefweb.int/report/democratic-republic-congo/rebels-army-fresh-clashes-dr-congo

http://therisingcontinent.com/2013/05/01/3-missiles-surface-to-air-from-paul-kagame-in-m23s-hands/

http://m.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/?articleId=9054737

7. Rwandas support of the M23 is very well ducumented, no need for me o elaberate

8. Citation that they did the bulk of the fighting!!

[b] Pretoria - Operational commanders have painted a picture of chaos around the mission in the Central African Republic that claimed the lives of 15 South African soldiers - putting the blame squarely on the shoulders of the military’s top brass.

According to the sources, logistical blunders and feuding among military bosses led to South Africa’s ‘Mogadishu’ in March last year.



However, the military has never revealed before that all the deaths happened in a single ambush on 23 March last year when about 100 paratroopers were being transported in open vehicles through rebel territory.

Details came to light after interviews were conducted with survivors during a probe into the incident.

The reports that field commanders had pleaded for armoured personnel carriers two months before the ambush, that they had asked for sniper rifles, Rooivalk attack helicopters, Oryx transport helicopters and a reconnaissance aircraft - none of which were supplied.

Troops painted a picture of chaotic supply of weapons and equipment while dual reporting lines contributed to the logistical chaos while force commander Colonel William Dixon gave a horrific description of the lead up to the final assault that claimed the lives of the South Africans.


had become a target for reportedly helping CAR President Francois Bozize flee the country into the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

According to the report, top structures were warned by senior SANDF officers that the CAR mission amounted to "suicide".

SA Air Force aircraft were also put on standby but due to financial constraints the Gripens were not armed with weapons with an attack capacity.

SANDF soldiers reportedly struggled on the ground due to lack of logistics and air support.

Soldiers had to ask French parachutists for essential equipment, with only one doctor present with a backpack for medical support.


"A source with the United Nations in Bangui said the South Africans had asked for assistance from French forces to help them leave the country."

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE92M0AU20130324?irpc=932

"Bangui - South African soldiers in the Central African Republic are seeking safe passage to the airport after taking heavy losses during fighting with Seleka rebels, Reuters reports."



"Amy Martin of the UN's humanitarian agency, OCHA, told the BBC World Service that the SA troops had retreated to their barracks and were seeking safe passage to the airport."


"Seleka spokesperson Eric Massi said the rebels had broken through a line of South African soldiers during their push into the city." [/b]

jln115:
Yes they crushed us by surrendering!!

Henry240:
Dodggy South-African sources cannot be considered and have never been considered as reliable sources of information. Especially when major multi-national news networks who were on the ground provide contrary, grim pictures of the ineptitude of poorly trained and resourced South-African soldiers.

Henry240:
No evidence whatsoever that they surrendered.