₦airaland Forum

ayoku777:
You're partly right. But "amend" is not the right word. The word Jesus used is "fulfill". Jesus did not come to amend the law, He came to fulfill the law.

Matthew 5v17 -Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to FULFIL.

taurus25:
VERY GOOD!

NOW GIVE ME A REASON WHY YOU AS A CHRISTAIN SHOULDNT PRACTISE APOSTASY AS INSTRUCTED IN DEUTRONOMY

ayoku777:
Because Jesus Christ -the one who is the fulfilment and consummation of the law of God (Matt 5v17), and who God said we should hear (Matt 17v5), said;

John 13v34 - A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

The new LOVE commandment from Christ is the consummation of the old. The new has brought the old to pass (to an end)

So just has we no longer sacrifice animals because Jesus Christ the lamb of God has been sacrificed for us, we also no longer kill anyone for their sins because Jesus Christ has died for our sins.

Get it?

Shalom

taurus25:
LETS LEARN SOME ENGLISH

fulfil - /fʊlˈfɪl/
verb
1. achieve or realize (something desired, promised, or predicted).
2. carry out (a duty or role) as required, promised, or expected.

LET ME REPHRASE MY QUESTION

THE TEACHING ABOUT APOSTASY IN DEUTRONOMY 13
IS IT STILL VALID

BECAUSE FUFILMENT OF OT LAWS WAS JESUS' DUTY

ayoku777:
You too learn from greek (the language the text was translated from).

Matthew 5v17 -Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to FULFIL.

The word "fulfil" there is the greek "pleroo"; which means to fill to the full, to bring something to its limit or endpoint, to consummate, to bring to pass or to an end.

Here are some other verses in the bible where the word "pleroo" was also used.

Luke 7v1 - Now when he had ENDED (pleroo) all his sayings in the audience of the people, he entered into Capernaum.

Acts 19v21 - After these things were ENDED (pleroo), Paul purposed in the spirit, when he had passed through Macedonia and Achaia, to go to Jerusalem, saying, After I have been there, I must also see Rome.

So you can see? Pleroo (fulfil) in greek means to bring to pass or to bring to an end.

So what Jesus actually meant is;

Matthew 5v17 -Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to pleroo (end).

So killing apostates is no more valid. Christ has ended that. The new commandment of love is the valid commandment now.

We are not talking about the dictionary meaning of "fulfil", I'm talking about the biblical application of the word "pleroo" used in the statement of Jesus for "fulfil". And it means "to bring to an end".

That's what Jesus meant by "fulfilling the law". He brought it to an end.

Romans 10v4 - For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Shalom.

taurus25:
NOW JESUS CAME TO PUT AN END TO "THE LAW"

remember,

THE SAME JESUS SAID ALL THE LAWS ARE TO BE OBEYED

AT THIS POINT ANYONE WHO CANT SEE THE CLEAR CONTRADICTION HAS A BIG PROBLEM

OR LET ME ASK IS IT SEALED AGAIN

i rest

ayoku777:
What do you understand about the difference between the old covenant and the new covenant? And the scriptural implication of calling something "new"?

Let's start with that.

taurus25:
I CAN SEE THAT THE IDEA OF YOUR DEAR BIBLE BEING FALLIBLE IS SOMETHING YOUR BRAIN CANT CONSIDER TO PONDER ON
INSTEAD OF LISTENING TO REASON YOU RESORT TO QUOTING ONE CHAPTER OR ANOTHER WHICH AT THE END OF THE DAY HAPPEN TO CONTRADICT IT SELF

AT THIS POINT ALL I CAN SAY IS EMPLOY REASONING!!

BECAUSE YOUR OLD COVENANT/NEW CONVENANT WHATEVER IS A SIMPLE CASE OF CHANGING HUMAN CREATED LAWS AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY FICTIONAL DEITY

i rest

ayoku777:
You are arguing naively like a child. Let me try and lead you by the hand through scriptural interpretation.

Follow me.

Jesus told the rich young ruler that came to him;

Matthew 19v17 - ...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Then a day before He was to go to the cross, the same Jesus now told His disciples;

John 13v34 - A NEW COMMANDMENT I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Now what is the scriptural implication of calling something "NEW"?

This is it;

Hebrews 8v13 - By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

When God calls something "new" in scripture, it is because He has made the former "old" and obsolete. And what is obsolete is done away with.

God doesn't bring in the new commandment to run with the old. He brings in the new to replace the old.

Hebrews 10v9 -Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

So Jesus didn't contradict Himself between what He told the young ruler and what He told His disciples. He simply instituted a new commandment as He went to the cross to bring in the new covenant. A new commandment that made the former old.

That is not contradiction, it is change of spiritual constitution as He was about to usher in a new covenant through His death on the cross. Its like drafting a new constitution as you're about to change from a military regime to a democracy.

Do you get it now?

Shalom.

taurus25:
THIS IS LAUGHABLE

YOUR ALMIGHTY GOD GIVES A LAW

YOUR ALMIGHTY GOD STATES THAT HIS LAWS SHOULD LAST FOREVER

YOUR ALMIGHTY GOD THEN COMES TO THEN COMES TO THE WORLD TO RENDER SOME HIS EVERLASTIG LAWS OBSOLETE

BRO, YOUR GOD IS VERY VERY CONFUSED

LET ME HELP YOU OUT

contradiction - /kɒntrəˈdɪkʃ(ə)n/
noun
1. a combination of statements, ideas, or features which are opposed to one another.

EG IF YOUR LORD GOD SAYS YOU ARE TO OBSERVE THIS LAW FOREVER

THEN YOUR LORD GOD COMES BACK AND SAYS STOP OBSERVING THAT LAW

YOUR LORD GOD HAS SUCCESSFULLY CONTRADICTED HIMSELF

taurus25:
THIS IS LAUGHABLE

YOUR ALMIGHTY GOD GIVES A LAW

YOUR ALMIGHTY GOD STATES THAT HIS LAWS SHOULD LAST FOREVER

YOUR ALMIGHTY GOD THEN COMES TO THEN COMES TO THE WORLD TO RENDER SOME HIS EVERLASTIG LAWS OBSOLETE

BRO, YOUR GOD IS VERY VERY CONFUSED

LET ME HELP YOU OUT

contradiction - /kɒntrəˈdɪkʃ(ə)n/
noun
1. a combination of statements, ideas, or features which are opposed to one another.

EG IF YOUR LORD GOD SAYS YOU ARE TO OBSERVE THIS LAW FOREVER

THEN YOUR LORD GOD COMES BACK AND SAYS STOP OBSERVING THAT LAW

YOUR LORD GOD HAS SUCCESSFULLY CONTRADICTED HIMSELF

ayoku777:
Go back to the explanation I gave you earlier, of how Jesus Christ Himself is the personification and consummation of the law of God. Not the ten commandments or tablets of stones. That is what is forever.

You are beginning to recycle arguments.

taurus25:
YOU ARE TRYING SO HARD TO RUN AWAY FROM MY STARTING POINT OF THE ARGUMENT

WHICH IS YOUR CONFUSED GOD DOES AMEND HIS LAWS

ALSO FYI THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF OTHER SILLY CONTRADICTIONS IN UR HOLY BOOK

SO PLEASE IN AN ARGUMENT FACE QUESTIONS HEAD ON

COME TO A LOGICAL CONCLUSION AND MOVE ON

ayoku777:
Go back to the explanation I gave you earlier, of how Jesus Christ Himself is the personification and consummation of the law of God. Not the ten commandments or tablets of stones. That is what is forever.

You are beginning to recycle arguments.

urahara:
Stop dodging the question. Why did your God that never changes amend the laws

ayoku777:

Yes, God [size=20]changed[/size] from ten commandments to Love commandment, from works to grace, from the law to the Spirit, and from the old covenant to the new.

What's your point?

Bulls eye you just arrived where he needed you... "Changed"… that was his point since..

"Change" is a mark of imperfection.. Something Perfect cannot and can never change because there is nothing it can change into, it is just precise, excellent.

Since surely enough you have shown that even God "Changed" on the occasions you listed above, this nullifies the claim of God being perfect and omnipotent plus omniscient.

A perfect being that is omniscient/potent would not need to change, not his utterances, not his charges because everything he says or does will be precisely right and therefore cannot need to be changed.

"Change" spells imperfection of the subject and the need to achieve better and the short coming comes from the imperfection of the human mind and this is because we don't know any better.

the only reason you will ever need to "Change" anything is that you have now found there is a better way to do it and the only reason you didn't use that better way in the first place is because you had no idea of that better way then.

If we already have a knowledge of a perfect computer, we already would have one... so imperfection also is roped in the certainty of our ignorance.

So since God now obviously is still a subject of this "Imperfection" and "Vulnerability" and show of "Ignorance" these qualities murders and nullifies the concepts of God perfection, omnipotent, omniscient...

You have done all the damage that needs to be done brother...

There are no two ways about it judging from the datas up there and the fact of "change"... It is either God is just another imperfect entity struggling to know it's right from it's left just like us or it is a product of an "imperfect" human mind roped with the alias of a contradicting and murdering "Perfect" status and you well now understand.

Cc. urahara

ayoku777:
Because the law served a purpose. It was to bring men to the end of themselves.

The bible said, the lamb of God (Jesus) was slain from the foundation of the earth. Meaning salvation by grace was always God's original plan for man's redemption since the beginning.

It wasn't an after-thought, as if God discovered His law won't work, then He decided to opt for plan B. Absolutely not!

Please read the link I posted earlier

www.nairaland.com/2775627/purpose-law

It explains the purpose of the law.

Shalom

johnydon22:
[b] Bulls eye you just arrived where he needed you... "Changed"… that was his point since..

"Change" is a mark of imperfection.. Something Perfect cannot and can never change because there is nothing it can change into, it is just precise, excellent.

Since surely enough you have shown that even God "Changed" on the occasions you listed above, this nullifies the claim of God being perfect and omnipotent plus omniscient.

A perfect being that is omniscient/potent would not need to change, not his utterances, not his charges because everything he says or does will be precisely right and therefore cannot need to be changed.

"Change" spells imperfection of the subject and the need to achieve better and the short coming comes from the imperfection of the human mind and this is because we don't know any better.

the only reason you will ever need to "Change" anything is that you have now found there is a better way to do it and the only reason you didn't use that better way in the first place is because you had no idea of that better way then.

If we already have a knowledge of a perfect computer, we already would have one... so imperfection also is roped in the certainty of our ignorance.

So since God now obviously is still a subject of this "Imperfection" and "Vulnerability" and show of "Ignorance" these qualities murders and nullifies the concepts of God perfection, omnipotent, omniscient...

You have done all the damage that needs to be done brother...

Cc. urahara
[/b]

ayoku777:
You seriously are acting like a kid now.

If God changes a system, a constitution, is it God that changed or He changed something?

God never changes, but He changes things and people.

All the dispensations are progressive revelations of God to us, to help us know Him. Of which Christ Himself is the fulness of that revelation.

If you move your child from geometry to calculus, to differentials to physics, are you the one changing, or taking your child on a journey of knowledge to become more like you?

God never changes, but He changes dispensations and revelations, covenants and commandments to make us grow from glory to glory in Him.

Is that too hard?

ayoku777:
You seriously are acting like a kid now.

If God changes a system, a constitution, is it God that changed or He changed something?

God never changes, but He changes things and people.

All the dispensations are progressive revelations of God to us, to help us know Him. Of which Christ Himself is the fulness of that revelation.

If you move your child from geometry to calculus, to differentials to physics, are you the one changing, or taking your child on a journey of knowledge to become more like you?

God never changes, but He changes dispensations and revelations, covenants and commandments to make us grow from glory to glory in Him.

Is that too hard?

urahara:
Where in the old testament does it say he was planning for salvation by grace

johnydon22:
Aaaah poor defence..lol
Before you "change" something, you must have first "changed" your mind about it..

I cannot jump from liking Orange to Apple without Changing my mind about Oranges in contrast to apples..

so MY preferences have changed, I have changed... So this is a poor defence.. A change occurs within us before we effect it...

So God cannot change something without first changing his mind about that something.. And since He has changed from HIS preferences of the two Options, obviously he has Changed..

You keep murdering God with punny defence and logic...

ayoku777:
The idea of salvation by grace through faith in Christ's death was always the original plan. That's why the lamb of God was slain FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH.

The law was added by God to serve a pre-determined purpose.

ayoku777:
Isaiah 53v5 -5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all

This is one of many messianic prophecies that prove that, redemption from sin was always intended by God to be through Christ's substitutive death for us.

Infact the whole of the Isaiah chapter 53 is an answer to your question. And there are even others.

Shalom

urahara:
Yahweh the ever changing Lord.

“And Yahweh regretted that he had made mankind on the earth and he was
grieved to his heart” (Gen 6:6).

And omniscient God knew that the humans he would create would turn out bad and yet he still created them that way and he then regrets it.

Anyway it's not like an omnipotent God can stop his creation from turning out bad. It's not like he was able to stop the talking snake from being in the garden in the first place.

Now this perfect God yahweh created the rainbow as a reminder so that when he wants to destroy the earth again the rainbow would make him "remember his promise" and change his mind.

Humans need reminders due to biological limitations that prevent us from forgetting but not a perfect God.

hahahaha am off to bed abeg... Ayoku has already done enough damage to Yahweh here.

Notice how he shifted from "God changed from old law to new law" to "The new law was actually the original law (meaning it was even the older law) and then the old law is a temporal one and then God adopted the new law again which in fact was the original"

he jumped within this when he knew he had no escape from the clear picture i painted..

Am off to bed Joor enough blow have been delivered tonight ...

johnydon22:
hahahaha am off to bed abeg... Ayoku has already done enough damage to Yahweh here.

Notice how he shifted from "God changed from old law to new law" to "The new law was actually the original law (meaning it was even the older law) and then the old law is a temporal one and then God adopted the new law again which in fact was the original"

he jumped within this when he knew he had no escape from the clear picture i painted..

Am off to bed Joor enough blow have been delivered tonight ...

johnydon22:
[b] Hahaha now you want to change now? ...

it gets even more absurd.

The original plan of God was "Create faulty humans, then murder his son to correct it"

You see? it still reeks of imperfection...

Going by your childish last staggering clutch defence up there (Original plan stuff) the whole setting was actually just set by God.. He already planned to murder his son sometime for humans even before he created humans ... Haven't you just made God a psycho here?

The only reason God would have an original plan of Murdering his son to give humans salvation is because God absolutely doubt his ability to create perfect humans that wouldn't be faulty and then require to be saved.

So for the fact God made imperfect humans also spells something that allegedly is Perfect bringing forth Imperfect things.. That's unlikely the only way God can make imperfect humans is if he himself is imperfect.

Still can't get over the idea that God just purposely creates faulty humans just to carry out his plans of murdering his son to save them from the consequences of his own short comings.

You honestly have no idea how your logic murders God more.

Again The imperfection status sticks in... No matter how many ridiculous defence you conjure along the way you will always pose a contradicting and nonsensical concept. [/b]

urahara:
Or that Jesus is the personification of the law

urahara:
Brother why stop there read the chapter further it says this servant shall have his days prolonged and shall see his seed.

In the Bible isreal is referred to frequently as god's servant.


Every one is to be put to death for his own sin.
[Deuteronomy 24:16]

ayoku777:
Hmmmm! So help me God.

Are you just deliberately misunderstanding me?

Who is talking about the sin of Adam? I'm talking about God original plan of restoring fallen man.

God had no hand in the fall of man. He created an upright man, and gave him the freewill to obey or self-explore. Man's fall was all his own doing. Even though God foreknew it because He is all-knowing.

Now, God's own plan of restoring and redeeming man was always meant to be by Christ's death and resurrection. Not by the law of Moses.

The law served another purpose. Which ended when Jesus died and brought in the new covenant and new commandment. Which was always the original plan for man's redemption.

Get it?
And about your perfect imperfect theory. God does not want people who obey because they can't do otherwise. But people who obey because they choose to obey. And that takes freewill.

Stop putting the blame of what men choose to do with their freewill on God. God's perfection is not to rob men of their freewill.
Shalom

ayoku777:
Ok, help me out then.

Who is the servant by whose stripes we are healed? That was wounded for our transgressions and bruised for our iniquities?