Like I said before Islam is plagiarized from Christianity, Judaism and Arab pagan practices centered around the Moon God
Let's look at the known history. ..
In Mesopotamia, the moon God was Sin-Nanna who's patron are Herdsmen and patron cities were Haran and Ur. Abraham was a native of Ur and he moved to Haran in his later years with his family. Arab records has it that the Kabba was built by Abraham and Ishmael. When the Kabba was cleared out the major God who's idol was found is called "Hubal" identified with the moon, rain and divination...let's see, what possible connection exist here?
Abraham was a Herdsman who owned cattle and flock of Sheep which were his only means of livelihood ( the bull is a symbol of Sin-Nanna, his other symbol is the crescent ). Lot was also described as a Herdsman, Abraham's family were probably herdsmen, as they were led by their father, Terah to Haran (possibly looking for greener pastures for the cattle and flock). Abraham and Lot left Haran to Canaan, they moved as far as Egypt and according to the arabs they reached mecca. ..you know how herdsmen walk long distances with their cows.
Looking at all the divine instructions the bible and quran narrates Abraham got from God one can conclude these instructions were through divination which Hubal is strongly identified with
Hubal is said to have come to Mecca from Mesopotamia. ..and the major cities of a moon God veneration were the cities Abraham lived in. No doubt "Hubal" is the arab rendition of Sin-Nanna, and over time associated with Baal Hadad, God of weather of the nearby Canaanites
The Quraysh tribe of mecca claim to be descended from Ishmael, and these are the people that were the custodians of the Kabba, a duty they performed since it's foundation. During the muslim vs pagan wars, the Quraysh praised their God by the name "Hubal"
Mohammed was a member of the Quraysh tribe and his family were devoted to Hubal, his grandfather was known to use the Hubal divination, and named his(Mohammed's) father "Abdullah" - servant of Allah. . We can clearly see that Hubal is Allah, the same deity the Kabba was built for by Ishmael
Mohammed simply incorporated aspects of Judaism like "one God" and their numerous prophets and icons , he even made mention of Christianity as practiced in Arabia - the arab Christians were known to take the trinity as - Father, Son and Mother

Annunaki:
Your analogy is faulty as Abraham never visited mecca talkless of building the kabba. Infact the city of mecca did not exist until about three hundred years before mohammed whilst abraham lived at least 3,000 years before him. The whole Abraham thing in the islamic religion was conjured up by mohammed to give credence to his newly invented religion.

Annunaki:
Your analogy is faulty as Abraham never visited mecca talkless of building the kabba. Infact the city of mecca did not exist until about three hundred years before mohammed whilst abraham lived at least 3,000 years before him. The whole Abraham thing in the islamic religion was conjured up by mohammed to give credence to his newly invented religion.

macof:
Annunaki . at least you did not dispute the fact that the cities Abraham lived were major cities of Moon God worship, and at a time when one's profession spoke of the deity he venerated...as a Herdsman Abraham must have been faithful to the MoonGod

Annunaki:


Yes the bible made it clear that abraham's people were pagan before God called him out.

macof:


this is so wrong, Mecca might not have been a city during the time of Abraham doesnt mean the land was never inhabited or at least visited.

the wilderness (surrounding Mecca) of Faran was mentioned in Genesis 21:21 as the area Ishmael settled
and arab records have it that the sons of the first son of Ishmael, Nabaioth built Mecca but was later controlled by the Quraysh, descended from Qedar(ishmael's 2nd son).... this is not islamic or mohammed's teachings but pre-islamic records of history

most True Arabs(not the wannabees) are descended from Ishmael, especially through his Two eldest sons Nabaioth and Qedar.

Annunaki:
Your analogy is faulty as Abraham never visited mecca talkless of building the kabba. Infact the city of mecca did not exist until about three hundred years before mohammed whilst abraham lived at least 3,000 years before him. The whole Abraham thing in the islamic religion was conjured up by mohammed to give credence to his newly invented religion.

lawani:


Abraham lived in Sumeria and Nimrod was his King. Nimrod would have been older than his father. Any Abraham story in the Quran, not corroborated by Jews are pure lies, figments of the imagination of Prophet Mohammed because Abraham is the property of Jews just like Ogun is the property of Yorubas. Those who knew Abraham learnt of him from Jews and not from anywhere else. His story got to Arabs through Judaism, Christianity and Islam and that was from whom Mohammed first heard the name., So any Abraham story not corroborated by Jews are pure lies.

Since Abraham was a Sumerian, it does not need telling before knowing that he was an original Earth man and his people today are Aborisha, Shinto, Hindu and etc. Not Christians and Muslims who are barbarians.

IndianBwoy:
The true Arabs are from Qahtan. Not from any judaic connection of ishmael which was forged post-islam. Every Arab knows that. Abraham never built the Kaaba.

macof:


The name Ishmael was found only in the Torah as at 100 AD. Nobody bore the name. Mohammed was born in the 7th century AD, prior to that Meccans never heard the name Ishmael, except if some Arab Christians heard of it. The whole concept of Arabs descending from Ishmael is a sick notion fundamentally flawed and has no basis. People living in South Arabia used to bear names like Nebuchadnezzar, Haman and etc. Not a single one of them had a Torah or Bible name. Abraham left South Arabia around 3000 BC according to Jews, visited Egypt and many other places, died and was buried in Canaan. He did not leave children behind in South Arabia, neither did his children return there at any time. South Arabians dont know him. He is known only to Jews.

The father of South Arabians is actually Nimrod who was ancestor to people like Nebuchadnezzar and who is known to Yorubas as Lamurudu.




and what about Abraham from the Arabs doesn't correlate with the records of the Jews?

most Arabs are descendants of Abraham just like the Jews and have every right to their ancestor. ...except for the Qahtan Arabs(the only surviving aborigines)
all the Arabs of Al-Hijaz are descendants of Abraham through Ishmael

you can say Abraham didn't build (or maybe even didnt lay the foundation of the kaaba) but to say his descendants never resided in Mecca cannot be taken seriously

macof:

and what about Abraham from the Arabs doesn't correlate with the records of the Jews?

most Arabs are descendants of Abraham just like the Jews and have every right to their ancestor. ...except for the Qahtan Arabs(the only surviving aborigines)
all the Arabs of Al-Hijaz are descendants of Abraham through Ishmael

you can say Abraham didn't build (or maybe even didnt lay the foundation of the kaaba) but to say his descendants never resided in Mecca cannot be taken seriously

lawani:




The name Ishmael was found only in the Torah as at 100 AD. Nobody bore the name. Mohammed was born in the 7th century AD, prior to that Meccans never heard the name Ishmael, except if some Arab Christians heard of it. The whole concept of Arabs descending from Ishmael is a sick notion fundamentally flawed and has no basis. People living in South Arabia used to bear names like Nebuchadnezzar, Haman and etc. Not a single one of them had a Torah or Bible name. Abraham left South Arabia around 3000 BC according to Jews, visited Egypt and many other places, died and was buried in Canaan. He did not leave children behind in South Arabia, neither did his children return there at any time. South Arabians dont know him. He is known only to Jews.

The father of South Arabians is actually Nimrod who was ancestor to people like Nebuchadnezzar and who is known to Yorubas as Lamurudu.

macof:



I guess the biblical references to the Qederites and Mecca are also 100AD .... in fact ishmael did not exist neither did Esau who the Torah claims to have married a daughter of Ishmael



What has Yorubas got to do with this

correction: Abraham was 2000Bc not 3000Bc

johnydon22:


Both Islam and Christianity has their roots from Jewish Religion of which Abraham is the fore-bear of their origin from a sumerian descent.

so Abrahamic is as much relevant in both neither Christianity nor Islam has any better claim on the Character Abraham (who remarkably i find to a lunatic individual and not someone worth emulating)

blueAgent:



Typical mental case. it is not by force for one to act smart. it is obvious U are not smart so quit being a ass

macof:
Annunaki . at least you did not dispute the fact that the cities Abraham lived were major cities of Moon God worship, and at a time when one's profession spoke of the deity he venerated...as a Herdsman Abraham must have been faithful to the MoonGod

lawani:


Pls quote the Bibllcal reference to Mecca, we are all learning.

It is generally acknowledged that Nimrod lived 5000 years ago and Abraham lived around the time too. Jewish accounts say his father was working for Nimrod.

Nimrod is the person referred to as father of Oduduwa in Yoruba stories but he was his ancestor and not his father because Oduduwa lived not more than 1500 years ago.

Anything can be written by Jews but they are not in a position to tell the stories of other people. They just can not go and say these are the children of Esau while others are the children of Ishmael. Abraham was just one man of millions and during his days there were many nations, he himself encountered many Kings in Bible stories. So there is no way he can be the father of so many people. Haggai was an Egyptian or Ethiopian, so when sent away she would have returned with her child to her people and not to Sumeria. There are many prominent people in pre Judaic South Arabian history and it is blasphemous to say those people are descendants of Abraham. They are not.

blueAgent:



Clown. Abraham's family were idol worshippers but Abraham himself feared God. and that is why God called him out from his country .

macof:



there's nothing like idol worshipping. no human being worships idol. .. what is done is Veneration of the Divine; idols are elements of veneration not objects that are worshipped


Abraham feared his God. ..doesn't mean he wasn't a pagan. Pagans fear their God much more than you religionists


God called him out of his country? as a herdsman why do you think he needed to be called out of his country? obviously for greener pasture for the herd and flock

nowhere did Genesis say he turned his back on the God of his father's house
the evidence is overwhelming. .. Abraham was a Pagan like his people back home

johnydon22:


Ignore the attention seeker who cannot make a simple sentence without managing to jam and insult and gibberish in one sentence.

not worth your time...

macof:
Im back to the Religion Section



this is my old post from another thread which i thought to make a topic out of


@
truthman2012, lexiconkabir, freethinker01, Ryabcool, GooseBaba ,Plaetton, johnydon22

blueAgent:



Clown. Abraham's family were idol worshippers but Abraham himself feared God. and that is why God called him out from his country .

JMAN05:


All these has no relevance to a xtain. merging the Bible with Koran is the mistake here.

macof:


you are wrong. . Abraham is a key figure for Christian religion. Christians should strive to know more about him.... this is what I'm trying to help you with.

sources aren't only from bible and Koran but also anthropologic studies of Mesopotamia and the lands Abraham ventured into

you should not reject knowledge just because what is being said isn't in the bible. ...Abraham goes beyond the bible

JMAN05:


As Christians we don't think that all the story ends with the bible. However, since we accept the bible as an inspired book and we don't believe Koran is, we thus view it with suspicion.

Any book that contradict what the bible has to say is wrong. If not for you, it is to any genuine Christian. As such, combining the bible with Koran and other sources you have there, and concluding that Abraham venerated idol is unacceptable to a genuine Christian. That makes the info above irrelevant to us.