africaken254:
off topic :Turkish AH-1W SUPER COBRA Attack Helicopter Shot Down By Kurdish PKK using a russian Made IGLA MANPADS. the proxy war has just intensified

[cobAWVML48Q[/code]

So, you're implying the Russians have got back their pound of flesh?


Considering the size of the Turkish military, one would think there military would ordinarily walk over the PKK. However this is 40 years +, and they're still locked in combat with guerrillas.

upko1:

Bostwana
*checks map*
HTF are they getting 16 gripens

yes o dey are getting gripens

but $1.63b is a bit too expensive even plus maintenance.

giles14:
yes o dey are getting gripens

but $1.63b is a bit too expensive even plus maintenance.

Deal usually includes maintenance.

$1.6 billion is not much when you divide it by the 30 or so years of operational life you will get out of a gripen. There is also the fact that it is still the cheapest jet to operate.

18 is abit many though.

patches689:


Deal usually includes maintenance.

$1.6 billion is not much when you divide it by the 30 or so years of operational life you will get out of a gripen. There is also the fact that it is still the cheapest jet to operate.

18 is abit many though.

but still it's more expensive than the f16 n even MIG 35

Henry240:


So, you're implying the Russians have got back their pound of flesh?


Considering the size of the Turkish military, one would think there military would ordinarily walk over the PKK. However this is 40 years +, and they're still locked in combat with guerrillas.

kurdish region is mountainous thus giving kurdish rebels an advantage(just like korengal valley in Afghanistan) ,this was an outpost which was attacked and turkish military responded by sending an AH-1W SUPER COBRA Attack Helicopter.just as planned by they waited for it and shot it down.i either suspect assad or the russians,also assad offlate has lost a few planes to newly delivered MANPADS to the rebels and jihadist .this isnt the first turkish military has lost an AH-1W SUPER COBRA Attack Helicopter,back either late 90's or early 2000 they did lost one.i believe this first time PKK have used such an advanced MANPAD.

giles14:

but still it's more expensive than the f16 n even MIG 35

F16 comes with strings attached (you normally need American approval to use it) and comes in at ~$6000 per flight hour. Its also an old platform, its latest variants are world class... but its reached about the maximum capability of the platform, not much room for growth over the next 20-30 years.

Mig 35 has an operating cost of $12000 per flight hour and has engines which need to be replaced every 5 or so years and rebuilt every 2 or so years - meaning that to operate just one Mig or Su you will have to buy 6 new engines and rebuild them 18 times. While most NATO fighters will only use one engine over 30 years (with an average of 3 rebuilds).

Gripen works out at a heavy aquisition cost, but very cheap operating cost and has plenty of room for organic growth - meaning that it will maintain technological relevance over its life cycle.

Gripen is also specifically designed to be operated from rudimentary conditions (can use highways to land and take-off, does not need special facilities to re-arm, can be re-armed in under 10 min and can be re-fueled from barrels or ordinary fuel bowsers) and only needs one technician and 3 assistants to be maintained during deployment.

Then you add the fact that South Africa operates the Gripen - which means that they can train with us, use our facilities for training their pilots and our weapons. It also means that it will have no political ramifications - Botswana getting 18 Mig-35's would definitly raise some eyebrows in Pretoria.

Gripen is the answer for Botswana.

Henry240:


So, you're implying the Russians have got back their pound of flesh?


Considering the size of the Turkish military, one would think there military would ordinarily walk over the PKK. However this is 40 years +, and they're still locked in combat with guerrillas.

You cant defeat insurgents if you cannot hit their training and re-supply bases - and the PKK have all their logistical support in Iraq and Syria.

Until the Turks can hit the PKK support networks they will never defeat them.

This is the very reason South Africa would raid Southern Angola.

patches689:


You cant defeat insurgents if you cannot hit their training and re-supply bases - and the PKK have all their logistical support in Iraq and Syria.

Until the Turks can hit the PKK support networks they will never defeat them.

This is the very reason South Africa would raid Southern Angola.

they have constantly bombed pkk bases in iraq(basically civilians),also Turkish army is in iraq but still Turkish military has come under constant attacks inside and near the border by both ISIS and PKK

YOU DONT GET TO SEE THIS KIND OF BIG 'WHAT IF?' ANALYSIS IN THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA...

Air Power Focus

There is no scenario we see – where NATO comes out on top in a military confrontation with Russia at this point in history. Perhaps in the late 1970s to the mid-1980s…but not now. Geographically (and therefore geopolitically) the NATO of 1987 is not the NATO of today. Not only would it be a war that no one wants – it would be the beginning of the end for NATO – as the brink of hostilities, will fracture the alliance.

https://thaimilitaryandasianregion./2016/05/13/the-war-is-over-recommended-reading/

OR THIS

http://theboresight..com.ng/2009/07/swirl-of-controversy-cope-india-and-red.html

patches689:


You cant defeat insurgents if you cannot hit their training and re-supply bases - and the PKK have all their logistical support in Iraq and Syria.

Until the Turks can hit the PKK support networks they will never defeat them.

This is the very reason South Africa would raid Southern Angola.

Gone were those years patches, is just like saying Japan will invade China or south Korea.

gottfried21:
A friend of mine recently joined the German Army instead of the NDF...He posted some cool pictures.Just thought I'd share.
@ViceAdmiral
Well there goes his citizenship

recently german government allowed the increase of military personnel after years of shrinking the
Bundeswehr .due to the increasing threat from the growing terrorist extremist groups and also Russia increasingly provocative actions.if i was him i would try as much as possible to join Kommando Spezialkräfte

Henry240:


So, you're implying the Russians have got back their pound of flesh?


Considering the size of the Turkish military, one would think there military would ordinarily walk over the PKK. However this is 40 years +, and they're still locked in combat with guerrillas.

recently the Bayraktar Tactical UAS made by the turkish Kale-Baykar joint venture between the Kale Group and Baykar Technologies successfully demonstrated firing of Roketsan MAM-L Smart Munition for the second time.i believe with recently increasing terrorism in turkey,they may start carrying out drone strikes very soon.

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx3MEco1Qlw

giles14:
http://defence-blog.com/news/botswana-to-buy-16-saab-jas-39cd-gripen-multirole-fighters.html.

dis is cool it's a bit expensive

@ViceAdmiral
We're in trouble...

Scorpion: Meet the cheap jet that nobody
wants.

It looks good on paper, It looks good on the ground,...
heck it even looks good in the air but is it actually good
enough to catch a buyer? let see.
Meet the Textron AirLand scorpion built by a combine
team of Textron and AirLand enterprise. The Scorpion
was build in secret with various Commercial-of-the-Shelf
technology in Cessna's Wichita, Kansas facility in April,
2015.

READ MORE HERE >>> www.combatheart.com/2016/05/scorpion-meet-cheap-jet-that-nobody.html?m=1

giles14:

but still it's more expensive than the f16 n even MIG 35

Nope. Not only is the Gripen one of the cheapest jets to fly, it also comes in full spectrum, this means your Air force can fly the jet with the entire capabilities of the jet available to the pilot.


Any country outside the U.S and NATO who flies the F-16, flies a severely downgraded version.

The SU-30 cost $12,000 to fly for an hour, the Gripen cost $4,000. This is the reason why Ugandan SU-30s aren't in somalia.


Russian jets are amongst the most potent in the world but the cost of maintaining Russian engines is high. However newer Russian engines are lower costs. For example it is cheaper to maintain the RD-33MK engine of the MIG-35 than the RD-33 basic of the MIG-33. The JF-17 flies with the RD-93 engine which is basically an RD-33MK.

lionel4power:
Scorpion: Meet the cheap jet that nobody
wants.

It looks good on paper, It looks good on the ground,...
heck it even looks good in the air but is it actually good
enough to catch a buyer? let see.
Meet the Textron AirLand scorpion built by a combine
team of Textron and AirLand enterprise. The Scorpion
was build in secret with various Commercial-of-the-Shelf
technology in Cessna's Wichita, Kansas facility in April,
2015.

READ MORE HERE >>> www.combatheart.com/2016/05/scorpion-meet-cheap-jet-that-nobody.html?m=1

No one wants it because it's target market doesn't trust America.

American Equipment comes with a lot of baggage and petty sh*t!

The only thing that's wrong with this jet is that it's American.

africaken254:
they have constantly bombed pkk bases in iraq(basically civilians),also Turkish army is in iraq but still Turkish military has come under constant attacks inside and near the border by both ISIS and PKK

When it comes to hitting enemy bases, you still need boots on the ground.

Iblawi1:

Gone were those years patches, is just like saying Japan will invade China or south Korea.

If they shared a land border and one had rebel bases in them then yes they would.

Hot-Persuit and Pre-emptive strikes are both legally valid in international law.

gottfried21:
@ViceAdmiral We're in trouble...

Cause of Botswana?
Come on Gottfried!

africaken254:
joint egypt/UAE military exercises in UAE

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVaUoGYgXbE

It seems what egypt need was this coup,it has spurred a new economic growth,even with recent growing insurgency and terrorism inside egypt and neighboring libya.now egypt is africa second largest economy

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDrDZNKQEh0

second largest economy behind who?

Henry240:


Nope. Not only is the Gripen one of the cheapest jets to fly, it also comes in full spectrum, this means your Air force can fly the jet with the entire capabilities of the jet available to the pilot.


Any country outside the U.S and NATO who flies the F-16, flies a severely downgraded version.

The SU-30 cost $12,000 to fly for an hour, the Gripen cost $4,000. This is the reason why Ugandan SU-30s aren't in somalia.


Russian jets are amongst the most potent in the world but the cost of maintaining Russian engines is high. However newer Russian engines are lower costs. For example it is cheaper to maintain the RD-33MK engine of the MIG-35 than the RD-33 basic of the MIG-33. The JF-17 flies with the RD-93 engine which is basically an RD-33MK.

I was speaking of MIG 35 not d SU series or even d MIG 29.
cost of operation for mig35 is much lower.
and for d gripen $1.6b for 16 aircraft haba dis is outrageous for an African state.
even egypt bought 50 MIG 35 for $2b + maintenance.

lionel4power:
Scorpion: Meet the cheap jet that nobody
wants.

It looks good on paper, It looks good on the ground,...
heck it even looks good in the air but is it actually good
enough to catch a buyer? let see.
Meet the Textron AirLand scorpion built by a combine
team of Textron and AirLand enterprise. The Scorpion
was build in secret with various Commercial-of-the-Shelf
technology in Cessna's Wichita, Kansas facility in April,
2015.

READ MORE HERE >>> www.combatheart.com/2016/05/scorpion-meet-cheap-jet-that-nobody.html?m=1

dat craft is not cheap,and it's not been tested, above all d f35 n f16 has mopped all the fund to purchase another fighter jet from dere Allies

Centrifude:


No one wants it because it's target market doesn't trust America.

American Equipment comes with a lot of baggage and petty sh*t!

The only thing that's wrong with this jet is that it's American.

Americans.. . ........ .....

giles14:
I was speaking of MIG 35 not d SU series or even d MIG 29.
cost of operation for mig35 is much lower.
and for d gripen $1.6b for 16 aircraft haba dis is outrageous for an African state.
even egypt bought 50 MIG 35 for $2b + maintenance.

Cost of operating the MIG-35 is lower, but i can't say by how much.

$1.6 includes training, aircraft, maintenance and may be some weapons. In this context, it isn't a lot.

Henry240:


Cost of operating the MIG-35 is lower, but i can't say by how much.

$1.6 includes training, aircraft, maintenance and may be some weapons. In this context, it isn't a lot.

OK now I am see.

wot of the Egyptian deal with russia is it also with training and maintenance.



if u are to choose between MIG 35 n JAS 39 wich will u go for

giles14:
yes o dey are getting gripens

but $1.63b is a bit too expensive even plus maintenance.

Algeria for exemple :

in 2006 bought 28 sukhoi 30 MKA ( based on the upgraded MKI version with the specific modification she want, french avionics ect... ) for 1.5 billion $

in 2011 bought 16 additional su30 mka for 900 million $

in 2015 get 14 Su-30MKA for about 800 million $

giles14:
OK now I am see.

wot of the Egyptian deal with russia is it also with training and maintenance.



if u are to choose between MIG 35 n JAS 39 wich will u go for

I don't know the details of the Egyptian deal. However Egypt isn't getting the MIG-35, they are getting the MIG-29M/M2. An advanced variant that is just under the MIG-35.


I'll choose the JAS-39 Gripen E/F over the MIG-35. The E/F model of the Gripen brings a lot more to the table than the MIG-35.


On the flip side, I'll go for the MIG-29M/M2 over any Gripen variant below the E/F.

Henry240:


I don't know the details of the Egyptian deal. However Egypt isn't getting the MIG-35, they are getting the MIG-29M/M2. An advanced variant that is just under the MIG-35.


I'll choose the JAS-39 Gripen E/F over the MIG-35. The E/F model of the Gripen brings a lot more to the table than the MIG-35.


On the flip side, I'll go for the MIG-29M/M2 over any Gripen variant below the E/F.

pls if u don't mind can u list the gripens e/f advantages over d MIG 29M/M2

i think the gripen E/ F still in devlopment ! a read that saab will unveil the very first Gripen E test aircraft in 18 may 2016

bidexiii:




Americans.. . ........ .....

Lol Americans are A..holes that's why I'm glad Botswana didn't go for any of their jets.

Centrifude:


Lol Americans are A..holes that's why I'm glad Botswana didn't go for any of their jets.

i read that 35% of the Gripen is from US component and technology , their is also more than 30 percent of the new version of the Gripen being developed by Saab is supplied by British industry. , and in 2014 the United Kingdom veto-ed a JAS-39 Gripen sale to Argentina for exemple , so the United States also has a veto on Gripen sales.