₦airaland Forum

macof:
beautiful post bro. I await his reply
although I doubt he will grace this thread with it

ypeace:
I have heard this argument that we don't have any reason to 'adopt' anything from another culture. But from my study of history (not only Arab history), NO NATION ATTAINED MORDERN DEVELOPMENT IN ISOLATION (reference can be found in solution to mass unemployment in Nigeria by prof Ogbimi). There is always a need to learn from others. The problem with your argument is that because Yoruba has acquired bad culture is not basis that they can't acquire better culture from non Yoruba.

Yoruba may not be oblivious to writing, but writing is not a culture to the Yorubas. It is one of the things the Jews are known for.

Yoruba culture is highly rated. And you know what?Developed culture will not adopt Yoruba culture hook, line and sinker into theirs. They will sieve it and adopt a superior culture. Therefore they get better.

Yoruba blame their inability to sieve adopted culture on something other than themselves. And make it a basis for an argument that we do not need to adopt any culture.

We have adoped English & French as official language and instruction in Education, what progress have we made thus far in inventions & discoveries - NIL.

Asians retained their language as official & for academic insteuction. What progress have they made in inventions & discoveries - you guessed right, a lot!

The same goes for India; look at them in medicine & ICT.

Same goes for the Arab world; they arenow the world's capital of tourism & crazy achitectural works.

Rilwayne001:
[b] Perhaps this is a memo to rilwayne001..?lol. And I must confess, this is really an eye opener. I learnt a lot again here.

It would have been better - like I used to tell these fellows that they should utilize the time they use in foraying into Islam to study their religion more.

Truthman2012 has been here for a while and he never created a thread to preach what Christianity teaches. All he does with his countless monikers is to keep preaching hate against Islam. He has nothing to offer us about Christianity with his countless monikers, but he has hatred to preach for us about Islam https://www.nairaland.com/truthman2012

I say: could it be because there really is nothing to preach about the Bible or the fear of the rebuttal he would get from atheist or even we Muslims on the board? Or perhaps he doesn't even believe what he profess? Or he is scared of his fellow that have this contradictory view about Christianity?

Same thing applies to Annunaki. He used to be "jagoon" before switching account to what he currently is. He's been here since 2008 with no reasonable thread about Jesus and Christianity except Muhammad and Islam. Like for real is it that these people have more faith in Muhammad and Islam that Jesus and Christianity to the extent that they have nothing to offer to the latter?

Truth is, they are all confused. They are all doubting their beliefs. Dolphin heart a unitarian Christian doesn't have the same belief with jman05 a Jehovah witness. Truthman2012 a Trinity believer who is allergic to anything outside his own church, who is also allergic to Catholic it's member doesn't have the same believe with Annunaki who doesn't believe in Trinity.

From JW to Catholic-anglican-protestans to deeper life, redeem church, white garments, C and S, celestial church and so on and the confusion continues. With over 30000 Christian denomination in the world, it is evident that there are lots problem in Christianity. However these fellows are not ready to explain or proffer solution to this problems but are quick to dabble into Islam.

And the most ridiculous part is that they hardly read their Bible and in return are ignorant of a lot of lies and contradictions in it.

Just take a look at how Matthew lied in your post. The Bible has been a fraud right from Genesis to revelation. Ask Annunaki or parisbookaddict to come and clear this now and they will have nothing to say except insult. Muhammad this, Allah that.. Smh

Once again, thank you brother for this thread. This thread should adjust their thinking capacity if actually they have an active brain.

[/b]

ypeace:
1.Mi o binu.

2. This statement:

........................................

Religion does not come alone, it comes with the culture entirely. This is why no one has been able to adopt s religion without drowning in the culture of thst religion - language, dressing, music/singing, family & way of life entirely.

Nobody adOpts Christianity & remains thorough Yoruba; philosophies of Yoruba & Christianity will clash and cause problems. Hence, Christians live & think like Europeans.

Nobody adopts Islam & remains Yoruba; cultures will clash. Muslims live & think like Arabs.

........................


Islam clearly understand that culture will clash. Islam therefore distinguished between AN ACT OF WORSHIP AND CULTURE.

In Islam, all acts of worship is rejected except the one approved by Islam. All cultures (food, music,clothing) are accepted except the one disapproved by Islam. I think you neglected this fact in that it will be in the best interest of Yoruba to adopt a particular element in non Yoruba cultures which is superior to theirs. It is also in the interest of Yoruba to discard irrelevant cultures.

9jacrip:
Maybe you are only well read in Quran and Hadith but not well read in academic research to have made the emboldened statement. You almost sounded like you are a historian or history student/graduate which I doubt but if you are then did you ever take Japanese history or read anything about Sakoku?

You probably should take a break from wanting to be an Islamic scholar to a Humanity scholar that will benefit you mentally and also human race.

Else you would know some nationa developed in isolation and Yoruba in Ile-Ife was one of them.

Another recent example is the U.S before WW1 and between 1918-1939 (before WW2).

Another exampke is the Ijebu country that secluded itself from Yorubaland politics and prevented people from entering its town or living.

There are many examples but only a thorough research would being them to light.

Where are you headed with this and what is a bad culture? I'm afraid you keep morphing the exchange from one skin to the other.

In my post, basing it on the parameters of Yoruba culture & foreign religion a la Islam & Christianity, I argued Yoruba has no need for borrowing a culture (Islam & Christianity) that asks it to throw away its own self identity.

Little can be borrowed here and there but not asking that the borrower remains Yoruba nominally and not culturally that Yoruba-ness is derived from.

A lot of Igbos speak Yoruba, a lot of Hausa eat Yoruba food, a lot of Nupe listen to Yoruba music but does it make them Yoruba? No. The religion of Yoruba is the nucleus of what makes one a Yoruba; it is where the philosophy of 'omo kaaro ojire' and 'omo luabi is'. You'll find outsiders who embrace Yoruba religion understanding the ethics of Yoruba more than Yorubas who are nominal.

Ever wondered why Europeans wrote and spoke highly of Yoruba? Ever wondered why Yoruba is regarded as a sophisticated ethnic group? It is all based in the Yoruba Religion philosophies that direct the view of Yoruba on all matters. Get my point?

How are the Jews known for writing? And how is writing not a culture to Yoruba? I only just cited an example of Oluorogbo whose writing was developing, the Jews are way younger than the peoples of Africa & the records of the Torah & Bible were written by men from very recent centuries. I hope you're not thinking the Adams, Abels, Abrahams, Noahs had anything written; the scribes started keeping records way much later. Don't confuse it.

If you had mentioned Egypt, 'I might can' let you slide but not Jews, please. (Method Man's lingo in quote )

I don't know what you mean culture not adopting Yoruba hook line & sinker; you should probably google Oyotunji Village, the Nago communities in Cuba and how they offer ebo on streets, speak yoruba, eat yoruba food etc - these people have a whole lot of caucasians adopting Yoruba hook, line and sinker.

Yoruba blame their 'inability' to adopt.

Did you just say this? Like really? Are you really Yoruba?

Yoruba has adopted crops, food, use of horse from Nupe/Hausa/Bariba; Yoruba has adopted a bit of dressing from Ibo, Yoruba has adopted here and there but in tiny bits because Yoruba culture itself is well rounded - we borrow tid bits.

I don't know what you're driving at.

My point and argument remains: Borrowing a culture that takes away your self identity, religion, cultutal beliefs and history but leaves you with name tag of your identity only is dangerous and a major contribution to stunted development.

Here is the example of the effect of these religions on Africa:



Let the screen shot below speak to you.

Demmzy15:
This thread was not meant for this, open a new thread and discuss any subject you want to. You've all successfully condemned and derailed, it's not fair na! Please open a new thread cc Akhi ypeace, macof

dolphinheart:
sir, why did you call me a unitarIan Christian and how did you come to the conclusion that I dnt have the same belief as jman05

ill like to ask, are you rilwon?

Rilwayne001:
Well I thought you were.

However does that stop the fact that your belief is different from that of Catholic, Angelican, Protestants C and s, mormon and other thousands of Christian denominations?

If actually you have the same belief as jman05 does that make your belief with other Christians on the board- such as: truthman2012 (a Trinity believer) and Annunaki (a non Trinity believer but doesn't believe Jesus is not an archangel) - the same?

And the questions are: aren't you all Christian? Aren't you all reading the same Bible? If you you do, is it true that the Bible is a book of confusion?

Yes I am.. Rilwayne001 a. K. A rilwon. A. K. A truthman2013 (the real one)

dolphinheart:
since its just a thought, can you now modify that post to reflect your thoughts instead of making it seem like facts?



the denominations and monikers you mentioned and i might share some beliefs, and I do know that some beliefs of these same denominations are not supported by me. I do not know much about the monikers you mentioned, and I'm not ready to use your views about there beliefs as a decider cus it might just be your views about their beliefs and not really their beliefs( your thoughts about me is a good example)



Question: aren't you all christians?
answer: I dnt know. A Christian is a follower of jesus, one who tries to live his life the way Jesus did. I dnt know how they live their lives , so I dnt know if they are christians or not. one, even I , can claim to follow Christ when actually we are not.

This can be understood better if we look into to the Muslim world, ISIS , and some other groups claim to be Muslims while stating that some others are not , those others claim to be Muslims and that ISIS members are not. how does one know who really is a Muslim or a Christian?

Question: aren't you all reading the the same bible?
answer: the bible is a collection of books written over thousands of years by different writers. During these times, some have added books claiming to be part of the bible, claiming it's inspired, but their falsehood can be easily discovered. some have removed some inspired and not inspired scriptures from their own collection of books. so to answer you, sometimes, people who claim to be christians might not be reading the same collection of books.

These can be better understood when we look at the issues with the hadiths, some are claimed to be authentic, while some are claimed to be otherwise.

another important issue the bible has or had is the issue of translation, I belief the Koran had these too. only that for the bible , it's more complex since its older and cover a longer period of time.

Question: is it true that the bible is a book of confusion?
answer: the bible, the collection of inspired scriptures , is not a book of confusion.
confusion comes in when people deliberately want it to mean what is on their minds, and the devil gives them full surpport in these. over the years , some have been able to alter some words in the scriptures, but through time, such alterations has been discovered and corrected.

The Koran is a good example to explain these, Shia and sunni Muslims have the same Koran, I'm not such, but I'm led to believe that their understanding of it is different, I'm being told that there are several school of thoughts in each denominations too.

unlike the Koran, the bible went through a lot before we can have it today.
1. The issue of language and translations
2. The issue of destruction of the original copies. since some of this scriptures where written thousands of years ago , those originals could not have lasted that long. hence copies of it is prone to attacks by those who wanted to currupt the scriptures, but as christians, we believe that God preserved those original words till today, it's part of our faith.
there is also the issue of man made actions affecting the scriptures, for example, we are well aware of how many times Jerusalem was attacked and destroyed by those who where neither christians nor Jews. We know how those attacks would have affected the safety of the scriptures.
there is also the issue of those who Jesus described as weeds, but all in all, the word of God survived them all!
therfore, the confusion comes from the understanding, and not from the bible itself, just like you claim about isis and their understanding of the Koran.


ok.

Rilwayne001:
Okay na, I get your drift clearly. No need to long things as I am not even the mood.

Thanks.

WORDWORLD:
@ Demmzy15

Consider the verse of the Quran below:

Say: "The TRUTH has arrived and FALSEHOOD neither creates anything new, nor restores ANYTHING". Quran 34 : 49

What this verse is telling us is that FALSEHOOD is not the source of a new thing. So, even if we wait till the second coming of Jesus Christ. A new and truthful thing cannot come from the FRAUD committted by the likes of the writer of Matthew as presented in my post while being proved so that the writer is a DECIEVER by using his writing in the Bible itself.

NOTHING NEW COMES FROM FALSEHOOD AND FALSEHOOD DOES NOT RESTORE TO OUR MINDS FACTS. TRUTH IS IN AGREEMENT WITH FACTS. FALSEHOOD IS EMPTY.

Falsehood is empty and non of those empty heads who keep on slandering Islam have anthing otherwise than more LIES to tell. A reason why we entertained the curiousity of the 9ajcrip who is not a Christian but a Proud Yoruba ancestoral worshipper or traditionist.

He, 9ajcrip has also asked a question which most 'IDOLATERS' In the past have asked.

Prove to us that Muhammed indeed spoke with any angel at all.

AND I SAY, THIS IS A PIECE OF CAKE. LOOK FORWARD TO THE QURAN PROVING TO THE WORLD THAT MUHAMMED DID INDEED SPOKE WITH ANGEL JIBRIL IN A NEW THREAD SOON ENOUGH. 9ajcrip.

Allah says in the Quran: " And no question do they bring to thee but We reveal to thee the TRUTH and the best of EXPLANATION". (thereof) Quran 25:33


This message is to 9ajcrip, The Quran teaches as regards the Multiple Cultures we have in the world.

"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of male and female and made you into tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other) VERILY THE MOST HONOURED IN THE SIGHT OF ALLLAH IS (he who is) THE MOST RIGHTEOUS OF YOU AND GOD HAS FULL KNOWLEDGE AND IS WELL ACQUAINTED (with all things)" Quran 49 : 13.

"ITS ABOUT RIGHTEOUSNESS NOT PRIDE IN TRIBE"

dolphinheart:
good you got my points. since you are not in the mood for an answer, i think it would have been good if you had not asked the question?

Rilwayne001:
[b] Perhaps this is a memo to rilwayne001..?lol. And I must confess, this is really an eye opener. I learnt a lot again here.

It would have been better - like I used to tell these fellows that they should utilize the time they use in foraying into Islam to study their religion more.

Truthman2012 has been here for a while and he never created a thread to preach what Christianity teaches. All he does with his countless monikers is to keep preaching hate against Islam. He has nothing to offer us about Christianity with his countless monikers, but he has hatred to preach for us about Islam https://www.nairaland.com/truthman2012

I say: could it be because there really is nothing to preach about the Bible or the fear of the rebuttal he would get from atheist or even we Muslims on the board? Or perhaps he doesn't even believe what he profess? Or he is scared of his fellow that have this contradictory view about Christianity?

Same thing applies to Annunaki. He used to be "jagoon" before switching account to what he currently is. He's been here since 2008 with no reasonable thread about Jesus and Christianity except Muhammad and Islam. Like for real is it that these people have more faith in Muhammad and Islam that Jesus and Christianity to the extent that they have nothing to offer to the latter?

Truth is, they are all confused. They are all doubting their beliefs. Dolphin heart a unitarian Christian doesn't have the same belief with jman05 a Jehovah witness. Truthman2012 a Trinity believer who is allergic to anything outside his own church, who is also allergic to Catholic it's member doesn't have the same believe with Annunaki who doesn't believe in Trinity.

From JW to Catholic-anglican-protestans to deeper life, redeem church, white garments, C and S, celestial church and so on and the confusion continues. With over 30000 Christian denomination in the world, it is evident that there are lots problem in Christianity. However these fellows are not ready to explain or proffer solution to this problems but are quick to dabble into Islam.

And the most ridiculous part is that they hardly read their Bible and in return are ignorant of a lot of lies and contradictions in it.

Just take a look at how Matthew lied in your post. The Bible has been a fraud right from Genesis to revelation. Ask Annunaki or parisbookaddict to come and clear this now and they will have nothing to say except insult. Muhammad this, Allah that.. Smh

Once again, thank you brother for this thread. This thread should adjust their thinking capacity if actually they have an active brain.

[/b]

parisbookaddict:
After this your long uninteresting post, please show me where a christian has killed another because of disagreements about Unitarianism or the trinity on the nature of God.

You Muslims have killed each other for 1400 years, u Sunnis murdered over 300 shites in nigeria this year alone. how many has your ISIS brothers killed this year...for what?? relatives of a fraud and pedophile , ali or abu bakr.. evil men that died centuries ago..

how many sects do you have in islam again, please remind me... you are quite the hypocrite.

>

Rilwayne001:
Your answer is actually subjective as Those monikers I mentioned up there will also come here to defend their belief that is contrary to yours.

I see no need to further the discuss since others will also come here to say they are better. Unless of course you want me to further question your subjective belief.

I actually opened a thread about the watchtower sometimes ago, but non of you turned up.

Rilwayne001:
However that is not the point. The point is why so many differences? Why is your belief different from that of jman05 and dolphin heart? They both belief Jesus to be an archangel and not God, why didn't you believe so? Aren't you reading same Bible?



Again that is not the bone of contention here.

Empiree:
I was going to reply her the same but decided to ignore. What she brought here is irrelevant. Even if someone kills all his life while having tawheed and then repents, paradise is still possible for him. Even if he doesn't repent till he dies, he receives punishment for as long as Allah wishes. But at the end, our believe is, so long as he has faith (tawheed), he will NEVER remain in Hell forever. That's Allah's promise.

A good well behaved christian however, no matter excellent his or her behavior right here on the planet will still end up in eternal damnation. But Allah is The Most Merciful, He gives them discount for good behavior. This "discount" could mean comfort at the time of their death.

Empiree:
I was going to reply her the same but decided to ignore. What she brought here is irrelevant. [size=14t]Even [size=14pt]if someone kills all his life[/size] while having tawheed[/size] and then repents, paradise is still possible for him. [size=14pt]Even if he doesn't repent till he dies,[/size] he receives punishment for as long as Allah wishes. But at the end, our believe is, [size=14pt]so long as he has faith[/size] (tawheed), [size=14pt]he will NEVER remain in Hell forever[/size]. That's Allah's promise.

A good well behaved christian however, no matter excellent his or her behavior right here on the planet will still end up in eternal damnation. But Allah is The Most Merciful, He gives them discount for good behavior. This "discount" could mean comfort at the time of their death.

Scholar8200:
Concerning the amplified text, can this not embolden terrorists? Because, even of you claim their murders etc are un-islamic, as long as they have the islamic version of faith, they will only be in hell for a season afterwards they will be free? Clarify.

Demmzy15:
I also heard not sure tho, that those kuffar who the truth haven't be proved to might not be condemned. Those going to hell are those who after the truth as being made plain still denies. So in essence, some non Muslims who probably are good but didn't the light of Islam might make paradise but the opposite are going to end badly!

Allaah knows best!

Scholar8200:
Concerning the amplified text, can this not embolden terrorists? Because, even of you claim their murders etc are un-islamic, as long as they have the islamic version of faith, they will only be in hell for a season afterwards they will be free? Clarify.

Empiree:
Yes, correct. Now tell me someone like scholar8200 and 90% christians on NL haven't been shown truth already?.

Also those who may make paradise are those non muslims who are fed wrong info about Islam and they have no access to the truth.

My earlier post was just a brief and summary. It is not elaborate.

Demmzy15:
Wallahi this is so so sad, may Allaah soften their hearts!

Empiree:
I'm not gonna address other parts of your post except this. It does not embolden anyone. Please put everything in its proper context.

The first comandment in ALL 3 famous religions is GOD IS ONE. Both bible and quran threaten violators with eternal hell. All other sins, Quran says Allah may forgive. Like adultery, fornication, killings, backbiting, usury etc. These are un-islamic as well.

Can you say as well that bcus Allah may forgive usurpers, fornicators etc it emboldens them?. A person who affirms Oneness of God but go on killing spree is going to Hell if he doesn't repent before he dies. Having faith is no excuse.

As for those who truly have faith GOD IS ONE till they breath their last but did not seek forgiveness for killing people, I swear by God they ain't getting "72 virgins". They are going to Hell for as long as God wills. I repeat, so long as they die with GOD IS ONE without ascribing son, Angels etc as co-equal like you do, they will eventually get out of Hell. Hadith also talks about sign of people who were previously in hell before granted Paradise.

But do you think their Hell is short term? . No my friend. We talking about millions of yrs in hell. Even hypocrite muslims will not be in hell forever. By hypocrite, I don't mean a 'muslim' in public but christian, herbalist etc in secret. No. That's still non muslim.

I'm sorry I'm unable to give reference now cus I'm mobile. Let me drop this though. There is hadith about a man who killed 99 people. A righteous man approached him and said " you are going to hell for killing people".

The killer said in that case I will kill you too to make it 100. He killed the man and asked for God's forgiveness. The hadith report that Allah forgave his sins. The man talking about here is someone with faith i:e GOD IS ONE.

There is also a case of a prostitute Allah forgave her for rescuing and feeding cat. So Faith I'm talking about is GOD IS ONE. Yes, faith is also trinity, herbalists etc

Rilwayne001:
To me this is irrational.

Empiree:
You see, the point raised here is that the one who professes shahada (including everything that comes with it) but is a killer, he goes to hell for period of time. The period of time is the time served for killing people. He doesnt get free pass to paradise. That's the point. He paid the price for cruelty.

That's why our parents say "Iwa lesin, esin ni iwa". Someone who professes shahada does not dwell in hell for {FOREVER} even if he committed gruesome acts. We can not use these terrorists as a case study. Amongst them are muslims and non-muslim machineries. But it's easy to chant islamic anthem while committing crimes. Forever is key word here.

I'm sure your are aware of tv drama like CSI LOS ANGELES. You see how LL COOL J reads arabic fluently and many other non-muslims like that. So only Allah can tell if these terrorists are muslims or not. Their appearances don't fool me.

Point raise here is not whether killers are going to hell or not. There is no debate on that. They are going to hell. But we talking about people who profess shahada but are evil criminals. Qur'an doesn't say they will remain in hell FOREVER. That's the point I'm trying to raise.

Rilwayne001:
Oh well! I will appreciate a reference to the underlined

lexiconkabir:
^^ Rilwayne001 and Empiree

To support and help the Mushrikeen against Muslims also takes one out of the folds of islam(i.e it nullifies the shahada), ofcourse we can confidently say that this category is where these terrorists fall.

Allah (SWT) says: “O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya (friends, helpers and protectors), they are Auliya of each other. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya, then surely [size=18pt]he is one of them.[/size] For sure Allah guides not those people who are Zalimeen (polytheists, wrongdoers).” [Sura 5:51]

Empiree:
That's correct. Very correct. Remember rilwayne I quoted this ayah earlier last yr?

Parisbookaddict called me conspiracy theorist. Yes, with condition highlighted by Mr kabir, which also supported by Sheikh imran hussein, yes, they are out of islam which I have said several times.

But this condition is exceptional. Here we talking about muslim with sound shahada but he's crazy killer. Not working for judeo-ChristIan alliance. Such muslim we talking about now.