₦airaland Forum

Point 3 though

Aventures:
The OP is definitely a frustrated Architect who could not cimpete favourably in this tight construction industry. Blasphemy another alied profession in same industry shows a serious lack of professional ethics. I am sure he is neither a registered member of ARCON or any professional body because there is a code of ethics by COREN which i know it teaches respect for other professional colleagues, i also believe that such code would be available for other professional body of which thos giy belomgs to none.

I'm sorry if I have hurt your feelings through my post, it was only directed to the first thread about Architects which I shared the link. This Post was not meant to rubbish the aforementioned profession but to point out the wrongs witnessed from them which they in return should amend. I never said on my post that Civil Engineering is worthless but simply a motion to point out mistakes for improvement. Which should respect other professions (which is good) but at a point, we ought to open up to the odds and it's left for us to learn from it. Do have a nice day buddy.

i think nigerian architechs are just too lazy,look all around u and see the buildings drawn by dem,not a single innovation,
the only copy and paste,probable change a few dimension.
whem they want to brag,they draw a building with a canrilevers spaning several meters,yet their clients dont have the money for suitable materials,they probably cant afford comprehensive tests for building project.mtchew,.

u cant compare dreams to reality,architechs thing revit,atlantis and archicad is all there is.

engryomiaina:
Boss. Weldone. Please share your idea. Cantilever of 7m,.....nice! Steel or R.C. Or composite? Let's share ideas. Better than throw blames. I will state again. OP contact a COREN registered engineer next time you are working on a project. Then I don't know what the ethics of your profession are, there are better ways of making such claims. Report to the NSE and write to COREN. Abeg nor come dey embarrass engineers here. Cheers

The 7m cantilever beam was of concrete material. I will see if I can get you the pic.

Avalon316:
The 7m cantilever beam was of concrete material. I will see if I can get you the pic.

Wow! 7metres? That's kinda long! Believe me, I've never seen such a length. I'd like to see it. But wait, is it reinforced concrete or prestressed concrete?

phabulous88:
Construction is team driven and until we realize and accept this, the industry will remain stagnant. Architects are architects - space and aesthetics; and engineers are engineers - structure and stability. We need to appreciate our diverse skills and collaborate more at design, not fragmented designing as is currently obtainable in Nigeria.

How often are design review meetings held? How about buildability workshops? While it's allowed to think outside the box, some architectural designs are just too ambitious and not buildable. Comparing structural engineers in Nigeria to those in Dubai/UK is uncalled-for; we need to work with regards to available technology.

Revit as a BIM tool is not restricted to architectural designs; ideally, all designs. (architectural, structural and building services) should be modelled on a single platform and clashes detected. The model could also be simulated using real life variables to see if it's buildable.

I'm not an architect, neither am I an engineer. I am the guy who coordinates you, the one who approves your work and payments, the one you report to

pls boss i will like to know who you are. Are you the town planner or q:surveyor ?

ogaofficer:
pls boss i will like to know who you are. Are you the town planner or q:surveyor ?

I am a child of the Almighty God, full of grace and abounding in divine mercy. On the professional side, I am construction project manager

karleone:
Wow! 7metres? That's kinda long! Believe me, I've never seen such a length. I'd like to see it. But wait, is it reinforced concrete or prestressed concrete?

Reinforced concrete beam . Will get the site pic and upload here.

arcnomec:
You are not far from the truth,the civil engineer sees himself as a God.He simply forgot that there is someone called structural engineer ,who is saddled with the responsibilities of doing a structural design.Until we go back to the draw board and correct this anomalies then we will continue to experience collapse of building.For God sake,a civil engineer should not make modifications to my design without my consent and he shouldn't try to tell me it is not possible ,I hate that word.

No good engineer will tell you that achieving your design is not possible,he should let you know the implication of the design you probably copied from the internet.

Avalon316:
No good engineer will tell you that achieving your design is not possible,he should let you know the implication of the design you probably copied from the internet.

A COREN registered Engr has said such to me. I handled the job to prove him wrong, I no more consult him. But that doesn't change the fact that I still have structural wizards on my contact list.

DerrickM:
Part of why I decided to learn structural drawings from a fellow architect not an engineer. Even the guy I assigned to my uncle's building site messed things up with his drawings after that design I stopped using him. He's been bugging me for new jobs but in his dreams forever for real...#okbye

From the way you talk, you no so little about structural design. structural work is more complex than what most of you guy see on paper. you just don't learn structural drawings without basic and advanced knowledge of mathematics. structure is 100% mathematics, you cant just learn it without an engineering degree

hardywaltz:
I believe I had answered this question.
UniBen offers Structural Engineering as a course on Jamb form (From Yr 1) not an option under Civil Engineering like most other schools.

No university offers engineering course from year one.
for a five year degree program you have the following
year one : advance o level courses like maths, physics, chemistry, statistics gst etc
year two: general engineering foundation courses like Eng maths, material science, fluid mechanics, applied mechanics, basic electrical engineering etc.
year three: general civil engineering courses like strength of materials, advance mechanics, eng maths etc

markemordi:
Note: Most civil engineers don't face their own line of construction you will see a civil engineer doing a builders work...... Let civil engineers focus on highway designs and
construction, geotechnical and water resources which is their specialization....
Architect is meant to design and not to build..... Nigerians believe they have degree relating to construction they can do everything ie be an architect, builder, structural engineer at the same time......

you are not making any sense oga.... civil engineering is sub divided into structures, highway, water resources, geo, foundation etc. most if us do building work because that is what is common

abdulwastecx:
From the way you talk, you no so little about structural design. structural work is more complex than what most of you guy see on paper. you just don't learn structural drawings without basic and advanced knowledge of mathematics. structure is 100% mathematics, you cant just learn it without an engineering degree

Don't mind that quack architect,derrickM. He wants to be an architect and an engineer. Unfortunately,he is wack at both.

CASTOSVILLA:
A COREN registered Engr has said such to me. I handled the job to prove him wrong, I no more consult him. But that doesn't change the fact that I still have structural wizards on my contact list.

Having COREN has nothing to do with competence. This is Nigeria where inexperienced engineers rush to get COREN instead of acquiring much needed experience.

Thanks for your observation but you are totally incorrect. If that's the only way to make yourself feel relevant in your field that's your headache so do your thing. I did structures it was based on mathematics,further mathematics & physics. You unfortunately couldn't break it down to the correct components of what makes it up. What an irony.

abdulwastecx:
From the way you talk, you no so little about structural design. structural work is more complex than what most of you guy see on paper. you just don't learn structural drawings without basic and advanced knowledge of mathematics. structure is 100% mathematics, you cant just learn it without an engineering degree

CASTOSVILLA:
This is to counter this thread https://www.nairaland.com/3040875/very-important-mistakes-architects-make.
1. ACCEPTING THEIR LIMITATIONS
Architects are the real consultants and their duty is to bring together the building team in other to achieve optimum desired goal in any building project. Most Civil Engrs parade themselves as Architects, quantity surveyors, Electrical Engrs etc because they feel like it is their duty alone to handle every espect of the building construction.

2. POOR AND WRONG STRUCTURAL DETAILS AND CALCULATION SHEET
I've witnessed this in many cases and I don't know whether the cause is laziness or lack of the knowledge. Most of them depend on software like Orion and the rest to do the job instead of using AutoCad to exercise their ability. Will the Architect be blamed after the collapse of the building due to wrong and misleading structural details and specifications?
3. LIMITATION IN STRUCTURAL KNOWLEDGE AND APPLICATION/ LACK OF CONFIDENCE.
Imagine when an Architect know better in terms of structural intergrity and construction methods. Most Architect design ground breaking edifice hoping that the so called Civil Engr will do justice to it, the next thing he'll hear is,"this is not achievable". Most Civil engineers are afraid to challenge themselves thereby resorting to denials and excuses not to handle a project beyond there technical/engineering capabilities. Some cannot extent a cantilever more than 900mm without applying a pillar. Any point of intersection of beams, a pillar is introduced. At the end of the day, pillar are seen everywhere. Some knows nothing about expansion joints even when it's clearly representated in the design. A whole lot of structural blunders are being commited by these Civil Engrs that one continues to wonder.
4. LIMITED KNOWLEDGE IN THE USE OF DIFFERENT STRUCTURAL MATERIALS (esp Steel)
Whenever you watch foreign football you'll notice the length at which they span the cantilever in their stadiums. Have you wondered why even at such span, it still carries a lot of spectators with ease. What type of material was used (even if you know), how was it constructed (most of our Civil Engrs do not know this and are not willing to know). Come to think of the little we do over here with rod, sand, stone and cement, some of these civil engineers cannot properly specify the correct mixture and proper reinforcement rather, they resort to guess work.
5. NOT WELL TRAVELLED
It pains me as an Architect whenever I get into an arguement with any of the Civil engineers in regards to the structural intergrity of some conceptual designs and the ones already constructed. Most Civil Engineers hate to see designs with concept. It beats their ability and it weakens their mind. I use this medium to urge our indeginous Civil Engrs to take their time and travel outside Nigeria. Go to Dubai, France, Italy, USA etc, go see for yourselves. Things you cannot do, go and see people doing it!

NOTE: I've worked with a lot of Civil Engrs and I can say that only few of them understand what is required of them and can relate to the above argument. The reasonable ones won't argue but will try to go back and improve on themselves.
Remember, no design from a qualified architect is unworkable, the problem is from the construction method.
FOR THE CLIENTS: Do not patronize roadside Architects, always sort the help of a qualified Architect no matter the price. Because YOU the clients thinks that you're smart, therefore ending up with regrets. Consult a qualified Civil Engr for your projects and stop cutting corners.

Having read through ur writeup, can say u made some points when it involves building projects . As regards to d issue jxt stated, i can say 4rm my own perspective that d clients should take more blame through cutting cost as a popular local adage says "good soup na money kill am" cos u dont xpect 2 get "A" grade quality for peanuts putting urself @ d receiving end. Take Asia as case study
More so i've seen roadside dudes who claim 2 be structural engineers but only incorporate accidentally gotten design drawing details which they cant fully interpret into new architectural drawings.
D reasons go on and on. All we need is 2 put in more efforts 2 totally eradicate quackery or @ worst near non existence mode.

There are Engineers and there are Civil Engineers (trans, struct, h20, g/t, marine etc)



IN TOTAL SUMMARY STUDY/PRACTICE IN ACCORDANCE TO THY PROFESSION IN OTHER TO APPROVE THY SELF which has been my watchword.


#PROFESSIONALISMMYGUIDANCE#

Quack really?!!Thanks for your usually useless comment,coming from an incompetent engineer who can't make a point in a simple conservation without mud-slinging. Feel better now?!!How really professional. You are just a hypocrite for real*lmao*lol*lwkmd*but you have no problems with engineers muscling in on the architect's role over & over. I don't see you complaining about that,quite unfortunate*smh*

Avalon316:
Don't mind that quack architect,derrickM. He wants to be an architect and an engineer. Unfortunately,he is wack at both.

CASTOSVILLA:
This is to counter this thread https://www.nairaland.com/3040875/very-important-mistakes-architects-make.
1. ACCEPTING THEIR LIMITATIONS
Architects are the real consultants and their duty is to bring together the building team in other to achieve optimum desired goal in any building project. Most Civil Engrs parade themselves as Architects, quantity surveyors, Electrical Engrs etc because they feel like it is their duty alone to handle every espect of the building construction.

2. POOR AND WRONG STRUCTURAL DETAILS AND CALCULATION SHEET
I've witnessed this in many cases and I don't know whether the cause is laziness or lack of the knowledge. Most of them depend on software like Orion and the rest to do the job instead of using AutoCad to exercise their ability. Will the Architect be blamed after the collapse of the building due to wrong and misleading structural details and specifications?
3. LIMITATION IN STRUCTURAL KNOWLEDGE AND APPLICATION/ LACK OF CONFIDENCE.
Imagine when an Architect know better in terms of structural intergrity and construction methods. Most Architect design ground breaking edifice hoping that the so called Civil Engr will do justice to it, the next thing he'll hear is,"this is not achievable". Most Civil engineers are afraid to challenge themselves thereby resorting to denials and excuses not to handle a project beyond there technical/engineering capabilities. Some cannot extent a cantilever more than 900mm without applying a pillar. Any point of intersection of beams, a pillar is introduced. At the end of the day, pillar are seen everywhere. Some knows nothing about expansion joints even when it's clearly representated in the design. A whole lot of structural blunders are being commited by these Civil Engrs that one continues to wonder.
4. LIMITED KNOWLEDGE IN THE USE OF DIFFERENT STRUCTURAL MATERIALS (esp Steel)
Whenever you watch foreign football you'll notice the length at which they span the cantilever in their stadiums. Have you wondered why even at such span, it still carries a lot of spectators with ease. What type of material was used (even if you know), how was it constructed (most of our Civil Engrs do not know this and are not willing to know). Come to think of the little we do over here with rod, sand, stone and cement, some of these civil engineers cannot properly specify the correct mixture and proper reinforcement rather, they resort to guess work.
5. NOT WELL TRAVELLED
It pains me as an Architect whenever I get into an arguement with any of the Civil engineers in regards to the structural intergrity of some conceptual designs and the ones already constructed. Most Civil Engineers hate to see designs with concept. It beats their ability and it weakens their mind. I use this medium to urge our indeginous Civil Engrs to take their time and travel outside Nigeria. Go to Dubai, France, Italy, USA etc, go see for yourselves. Things you cannot do, go and see people doing it!

NOTE: I've worked with a lot of Civil Engrs and I can say that only few of them understand what is required of them and can relate to the above argument. The reasonable ones won't argue but will try to go back and improve on themselves.
Remember, no design from a qualified architect is unworkable, the problem is from the construction method.
FOR THE CLIENTS: Do not patronize roadside Architects, always sort the help of a qualified Architect no matter the price. Because YOU the clients thinks that you're smart, therefore ending up with regrets. Consult a qualified Civil Engr for your projects and stop cutting corners.

Op are u a professional or a quack? Cos d ethics of professional practice frowns at talking down on any profession. If u are a professional in the construction field then, am highly disappointed in u.

DerrickM:
Thanks for your observation but you are totally incorrect. If that's the only way to make yourself feel relevant in your field that's your headache so do your thing. I did structures it was based on mathematics,further mathematics & physics. You unfortunately couldn't break it down to the correct components of what makes it up. What an irony.

I don't really have your time Mr architect but I am very sure you can't even do a simple continuous beam analysis using stiffness matrix method

Quite ironic,yet you've time to respond,dude*lmao*lwkmd*lol*Good one,quite contradictory. Mr. Engineer,my response to your obnoxious question on beam analysis...Don't have nothing to prove to you. Quite frankly how do I know you've even passed in it in school when you couldn't get its core components correctly...#ShowOff

abdulwastecx:
I don't really have your time Mr architect but I am very sure you can't even do a simple continuous beam analysis using stiffness matrix method

DerrickM:
Quite ironic,yet you've time to respond,dude*lmao*lwkmd*lol*Good one,quite contradictory. Mr. Engineer,my response to your obnoxious question on beam analysis...Don't have nothing to prove to you. Quite frankly how do I know you've even passed in it in school when you couldn't get its core components correctly...#ShowOff

you don't much mate, i can see how ignorant you are about structures. Two courses in reinforced concrete design doesn't make you a structural engineer. for your information i am not an engineer yet ( i haven't meet up with the minimum years of working experience to be one) but i can lectured you badly on reinforced concrete.

I repeat, structural engineering is pure mathematics, if you don't know the maths don't rubbish those that have master the art

*Tsk*Tsk*Tsk*Temper-Temper-Tantrum*
Lost your composure while typing I see,brov. What a shame now stuttering all over the typo errors enough to give one a headache e.g "lectured me"...error due to parallax,damn*lmao*lol*lwkmd*smh*
2courses where in the world they I say that*Please try reading over with a magnifying lens to be certain of your cooked up facts,dude*Mr. Oversabi Engineer-To-Be*Mastered the Art indeed last time I checked Architecture had that in it not Engineering. We were just all airing our views y'all went & took personal talking this & that...

abdulwastecx:
you don't much mate, i can see how ignorant you are about structures. Two courses in reinforced concrete design doesn't make you a structural engineer. for your information i am not an engineer yet ( i haven't meet up with the minimum years of working experience to be one) but i can lectured you badly on reinforced concrete.

I repeat, structural engineering is pure mathematics, if you don't know the maths don't rubbish those that have master the art

abdulwastecx:
No university offers engineering course from year one.
for a five year degree program you have the following
year one : advance o level courses like maths, physics, chemistry, statistics gst etc
year two: general engineering foundation courses like Eng maths, material science, fluid mechanics, applied mechanics, basic electrical engineering etc.
year three: general civil engineering courses like strength of materials, advance mechanics, eng maths etc

I don't have patience to explain things to dull people pls try again later

General2COAS:
Op are u a professional or a quack? Cos d ethics of professional practice frowns at talking down on any profession. If u are a professional in the construction field then, am highly disappointed in u.

KNOW THAT THIS IS NAIJA Wake up Bro

Good evening sir General, sorry am not a quack but a full time practicing Architect. Being a registered NIA, COREN and knowing one or two rules guiding the body doesn't stop one from pointing out constructively the mistakes of the other or these misfortunes will continue happening. Because am not supposed to state the wrongs of the other as stated in the ethics doesn't mean that I should fold my hands and watch another rubbish my sweat and pride. General, please note down these points up there and improve yourself without further disgrace to your profession other than coming here to tell me not to state my dislikes about your kind which is true. Work on yourselves man and save us all in the same industry from further aches. "THIS IS NAIJA" please what do you mean by this? I'm even more disappointed in you than you claim to be in me! So because this is Naija, quackery should not be condemned even when it comes from a COREN registered Engineer?( which some people cut corners to earn). Because it's Naija, there isn't room for improvement? Because it's Naija, we should continue spending on foreign Engineers to do our job? And because it's Naija, we shouldn't try to meet up with modern international standard? General, you sounded more like an artisan than a professional this time. What were you thinking saying what you just said. Every day I try so hard to improve on myself as far as my profession is concerned. If I should display my designs here, people like you will be the ones to tell me that even my windows an door are not workable. I know good civil engineers whom I consult just to broaden my knowledge (the ones I couldn't get from school) in structural engineering in order to incorporate it with my design to achieve a workable design because I build most of my designs. I browse up foreign projects, pick some ideas to meet up with modern day Architecture but still considering our climatic constraints (that's improvement). Please speak for yourself bro and stop defending the black sheep in your profession.

CASTOSVILLA:
Good evening sir General, sorry am not a quack but a full time practicing Architect. Being a registered NIA, COREN and knowing one or two rules guiding the body doesn't stop one from pointing out constructively the mistakes of the other or these misfortunes will continue happening. Because am not supposed to state the wrongs of the other as stated in the ethics doesn't mean that I should fold my hands and watch another rubbish my sweat and pride. General, please note down these points up there and improve yourself without further disgrace to your profession other than coming here to tell me not to state my dislikes about your kind which is true. Work on yourselves man and save us all in the same industry from further aches. "THIS IS NAIJA" please what do you mean by this? I'm even more disappointed in you than you claim to be in me! So because this is Naija, quackery should not be condemned even when it comes from a COREN registered Engineer?( which some people cut corners to earn). Because it's Naija, there isn't room for improvement? Because it's Naija, we should continue spending on foreign Engineers to do our job? And because it's Naija, we shouldn't try to meet up with modern international standard? General, you sounded more like an artisan than a professional this time. What were you thinking saying what you just said. Every day I try so hard to improve on myself as far as my profession is concerned. If I should display my designs here, people like you will be the ones to tell me that even my windows an door are not workable. I know good civil engineers whom I consult just to broaden my knowledge (the ones I couldn't get from school) in structural engineering in order to incorporate it with my design to achieve a workable design because I build most of my designs. I browse up foreign projects, pick some ideas to meet up with modern day Architecture but still considering our climatic constraints (that's improvement). Please speak for yourself bro and stop defending the black sheep in your profession.

sorry u got me wrong bro am not defending any one here just trying to point out some actions which are against professional practices.
But first of all
APOLOGIES MY ARCHITECT PLEASE DO FORGIVE IF I OFFENDED U IN ANYWAY

Am as concerned as u are but I think we should seek for means to reduce or completely eliminate quackery in the industry other than bashing one another
We are all one I just wish my dreams of turning naija to tourist attraction center with futuristic, magnificent and nearly impossible structures that goes beyond the limits of engineering.

Note---
I get embarrassed whenever I come across some engineers who contributed in one way or another to the mess Being battled with in d construction industry by labelling architectural designs impossible forgetting that's what they were trained to do.



if u don't mind would like to extend a hand of friendship to you if u share my dream.

CASTOSVILLA:
Good evening sir General, sorry am not a quack but a full time practicing Architect. Being a registered NIA, COREN and knowing one or two rules guiding the body doesn't stop one from pointing out constructively the mistakes of the other or these misfortunes will continue happening. Because am not supposed to state the wrongs of the other as stated in the ethics doesn't mean that I should fold my hands and watch another rubbish my sweat and pride. General, please note down these points up there and improve yourself without further disgrace to your profession other than coming here to tell me not to state my dislikes about your kind which is true. Work on yourselves man and save us all in the same industry from further aches. "THIS IS NAIJA" please what do you mean by this? I'm even more disappointed in you than you claim to be in me! So because this is Naija, quackery should not be condemned even when it comes from a COREN registered Engineer?( which some people cut corners to earn). Because it's Naija, there isn't room for improvement? Because it's Naija, we should continue spending on foreign Engineers to do our job? And because it's Naija, we shouldn't try to meet up with modern international standard? General, you sounded more like an artisan than a professional this time. What were you thinking saying what you just said. Every day I try so hard to improve on myself as far as my profession is concerned. If I should display my designs here, people like you will be the ones to tell me that even my windows an door are not workable. I know good civil engineers whom I consult just to broaden my knowledge (the ones I couldn't get from school) in structural engineering in order to incorporate it with my design to achieve a workable design because I build most of my designs. I browse up foreign projects, pick some ideas to meet up with modern day Architecture but still considering our climatic constraints (that's improvement). Please speak for yourself bro and stop defending the black sheep in your profession.

sorry u got me wrong bro am not defending any one here just trying to point out some actions which are against professional practices.
But first of all
APOLOGIES MY ARCHITECT PLEASE DO FORGIVE IF I OFFENDED U IN ANYWAY

Am as concerned as u are but I think we should seek for means to reduce or completely eliminate quackery in the industry other than bashing one another
We are all one I just wish my dreams of turning naija to tourist attraction center with futuristic, magnificent and nearly impossible structures that goes beyond the limits of engineering.

Note---
I get embarrassed whenever I come across some engineers who contributed in one way or another to the mess Being battled with in d construction industry by labelling architectural designs impossible forgetting that's what they were trained to do.



if u don't mind would like to extend a hand of friendship to you if u share my dream. structural engineering goes way beyond what we think let's push engineering if possible beyond its limit just lyk BURJ KHALIFA & THE LIKES

General2COAS:
sorry u got me wrong bro am not defending any one here just trying to point out some actions which are against professional practices.
But first of all
APOLOGIES MY ARCHITECT PLEASE DO FORGIVE IF I OFFENDED U IN ANYWAY

Am as concerned as u are but I think we should seek for means to reduce or completely eliminate quackery in the industry other than bashing one another
We are all one I just wish my dreams of turning naija to tourist attraction center with futuristic, magnificent and nearly impossible structures that goes beyond the limits of engineering.

Note---
I get embarrassed whenever I come across some engineers who contributed in one way or another to the mess Being battled with in d construction industry by labelling architectural designs impossible forgetting that's what they were trained to do.



if u don't mind would like to extend a hand of friendship to you if u share my dream. structural engineering goes way beyond what we think let's push engineering if possible beyond its limit just lyk BURJ KHALIFA & THE LIKES

I do share in your dreams brother and I'll from henceforth, respect more, any profession regardless of their challenges. At least for the sake of the good eggs among them.

[quote author=CASTOSVILLA post=46474495]This is to counter this thread https://www.nairaland.com/3040875/very-important-mistakes-architects-make.
1. ACCEPTING THEIR LIMITATIONS
Architects are the real consultants and their duty is to bring together the building team in other to achieve optimum desired goal in any building project. Most Civil Engrs parade themselves as Architects, quantity surveyors, Electrical Engrs etc because they feel like it is their duty alone to handle every espect of the building construction.

2. POOR AND WRONG STRUCTURAL DETAILS AND CALCULATION SHEET
I've witnessed this in many cases and I don't know whether the cause is laziness or lack of the knowledge. Most of them depend on software like Orion and the rest to do the job instead of using AutoCad to exercise their ability. Will the Architect be blamed after the collapse of the building due to wrong and misleading structural details and specifications?
3. LIMITATION IN STRUCTURAL KNOWLEDGE AND APPLICATION/ LACK OF CONFIDENCE.
Imagine when an Architect know better in terms of structural intergrity and construction methods. Most Architect design ground breaking edifice hoping that the so called Civil Engr will do justice to it, the next thing he'll hear is,"this is not achievable". Most Civil engineers are afraid to challenge themselves thereby resorting to denials and excuses not to handle a project beyond there technical/engineering capabilities. Some cannot extent a cantilever more than 900mm without applying a pillar. Any point of intersection of beams, a pillar is introduced. At the end of the day, pillar are seen everywhere. Some knows nothing about expansion joints even when it's clearly representated in the design. A whole lot of structural blunders are being commited by these Civil Engrs that one continues to wonder.
4. LIMITED KNOWLEDGE IN THE USE OF DIFFERENT STRUCTURAL MATERIALS (esp Steel)
Whenever you watch foreign football you'll notice the length at which they span the cantilever in their stadiums. Have you wondered why even at such span, it still carries a lot of spectators with ease. What type of material was used (even if you know), how was it constructed (most of our Civil Engrs do not know this and are not willing to know). Come to think of the little we do over here with rod, sand, stone and cement, some of these civil engineers cannot properly specify the correct mixture and proper reinforcement rather, they resort to guess work.
5. NOT WELL TRAVELLED
It pains me as an Architect whenever I get into an arguement with any of the Civil engineers in regards to the structural intergrity of some conceptual designs and the ones already constructed. Most Civil Engineers hate to see designs with concept. It beats their ability and it weakens their mind. I use this medium to urge our indeginous Civil Engrs to take their time and travel outside Nigeria. Go to Dubai, France, Italy, USA etc, go see for yourselves. Things you cannot do, go and see people doing it!

NOTE: I've worked with a lot of Civil Engrs and I can say that only few of them understand what is required of them and can relate to the above argument. The reasonable ones won't argue but will try to go back and improve on themselves.
Remember, no design from a qualified architect is unworkable, the problem is from the construction

Architects N Civil Engineers

einsteino:
The hard truth is an architect draws pretty pictures that he has no idea how to make stand. There is no limitation to what an architect can model. One can model a completely suspended building in revit, archicad.. Can cantilever 40 metre span.. Can have an overhang of 400 sq metre supported by just a brick wall.. It is all just pictures and models.. The civil engr tells him what is obtainable within the budget and the prevailing technical conditions in the country. The way the industry works, engrs call architects dreamers and architects call engrs killjoys.

You dont hve to feel bitter about it. It is one thing to dream, it is another to make it work. It is not too late to go get a second degree in civil engineering so you can have all the competent technical know how you require to make your projects be the way you wish.

moreso nigeria isnt dubai, it is the truth. Such pojects require a lot of money for an engr to be able to explore alot of options and assemble a large competent team. Here it is hard for a civil Engr to even specialise unlike in developed nations. I have carried out many projects that budgetary constraints made me negotiate modifications with the architect. Heck it is almost mission impossible to produce grade 40 concrete in Nigeria which is the minimum grade of concrete in eurocode. The yield strength of rebars in nigeria mkts can not be vouched for, some are as low as 300N/mm for socalled high yield meanwhile it ought to be 460 minimum. Clients refuse to carry out proper geotechnical investigation that would educate the engr on the soil bearing capacity the structure would sit on. What are engrs to do? These factors greatly inhibit our engineering capacity. Even when u profer smart solutions that would save aesthetics, the same client wouldnt be able to afford it. The client doesnt want to spend money on his own project, the engr isnt paid something that even encourages thinking outside the box but the architect is still drawing beautiful dreamland pictures without taking into cognisance the difficulties and risk it would pose in a nation like ours.

Yes there are incompetent engrs and i agree many of them hide their incompetence by avoiding projects that require the most basic ingenious solutions. I have met a number of them, but the truth is alot of folks who parade themselves as civil engrs are not, even Architects also parade themselves as engrs and i have met a good number of incompetent architects too. I work as a consultant/design structural engr and i know the sacrifices and efforts it takes to be a competent engr. Civil engineering is very tasking, intellectually and otherwise. Yet an architect would dare ask an engr to carryout structural designs for peanuts. They want you to offer competence at the fees of quacks.

If you want competence, you must be ready to pay for it. You shy away from employing the service of a competent engr because you want to cut cost, only to run to quacks and come out here and insult an entire profession based on your experience with the quacks, it is not nice a thing to do at all. If i wrote an epitsle detailing the level of incompetence of some architects i have worked with, generalising and ridiculing your entire profession, how would you feel? There are many civil engineering consulting firms in Nigeria and they are very competent, employ their services. Most of the foreign construction firms employ the services of indigenous engineering consulting firms, I dont think you know better than them. I too am a competent civil engr and you can reach me for your structural designs. I have expertise in steel and reinforced concrete structures and software proficiency in STAAD PRO, Tekla Structures, Revit Structures, Robot Structural Analysis, SAP 2000, Orion and Auto Cad.

Oh that reminds me, you made mention of detailing in Orion being bad. Oh yeah every software has its limitations but it doesnt make one incompetent to employ them. Orion slab detailing is a disaster, its foundation details isnt a sight to behold either. I only endorse its beam detail but that needs some tweaking too. Personally draughting using Autocad is still the best due time the flexibility it avails its user but it is a painstaking process and involves too many repetitive and time wasting actions. To avoid this, Cads RC and revit structure can be employed if one can survive the learning curve. To engrs please make sure you understand the software you use perfectly well. Orion doesnt span slabs purely in one way, doesnt matter if u change the slab type.. Also be sure to introduce hinges before analysis because its details doesnt cater for fixity. Its foundation footing sizing is also too conservative. Personally, good old manual structural designs and calculation is a favourite and is always a good backbone, however automating the process makes it speedy.

Lastly engrs please a software is a garbage in, garbage out tool. You can't get what you didnt give. It is only to automate what you already know not what you dont. An engr reads more on graduation than he did in all his years in Uni combined, keep developing yourselves. Hopefuly we would take our profession back from the quacks someday.

U've said it all.... I'm speechless can i hav ur contact.... This is my line
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