₦airaland Forum

An0nimus:
That's one very long time skip

Very long bro. Was surprised to see varys at the back of their. Perhaps i need a map for got.

Gbola5:
You mean Viserion.

Yea, that's the name I meant - Thanks

Gbola5:
You mean Viserion.

Yea, that's the name I meant - Thanks

Hmmm

Nihilist:
The same guys that elected Jon Snow ended up publicly executing him , so what exactly is your point?

If you look at each of the events I've mentioned, you will see that generally people just don't seem to believe in Jon for whatever reason.

Take the Wildlings for example. Jon warned them of white walkers which gave some of them time to escape. He defied customs that had stood for centuries by allowing the wildlings beyond the wall for their personal safety, and even lost his life for this decision in the process!

Yet the wildlings were still reluctant to fight for him until Tormmund yet again had to intercede

Sansa, his own sister was prepared for him for him to ride his men to certain death , rather than hand him control of the Vale armies.

One event could be bad luck. 2 could be coincidence. 3 is a trend.

Just to confirm that I'm not mad, I Googled 'Jon Snow is a Terrible leader' and found all sorts of publications agreeing with me for the EXACT same reasons I've given - from NY times to Playboy.

I know the guy is a popular character, but I thought it would be pretty obvious that he has severe leadership flaws.

Finally, I really don't appreciate your final sentence saying I'm arguing for arguments sake. I have had to remind you a couple of times now. Attack my argument, not my person. If you feel you are incapable of doing this, then don't quote me. I can be quite nasty myself.

Jon Snow hater for no reason. The fight they (wildings) agree to fight with Jon Snow was against white walkers not participate in a battle within northern houses. They despise and hate all southern of the wall. And yet you expect them to just agree ones. It was white walkers they agree to fight not northern houses battle, so stick that in you. Another thing is they would have even agree to fight with him against the Boltons, case Jon gave them a reason saying if they don't fight with him, after Ramsey Bolton is done defeating Jon, na even The young umber house go finish the wildings. But you know the writers made Jon Snow weak by making Tormund also have a say in the wildings decision.

If not for Sansa that came to Castle Black. Jon Snow will still be a lord commander and he wouldn't have asked the wildings to fight with him in a house against house battle. But when the time comes to fight the White Walkers, the wildings will easily answer him.

If anybody wants to hate on Jon Snow its not now that they have really built up hos character. Jom Snow always make some decisions, questionable ones, and mostly decisions that go against the principle of Castle back, but he always gets his wish, and people always follow him, people will volunteer to follow him. That's the build up for a leader. Jon Snow is a real leader.

If anybody wants to hate on Jon Snow its not now that they have really built up hos character. Jom Snow always make unreal requestss, some decisions questionable ones, and mostly decisions that go against the principle of Castle back, but he always gets his wish, and people always follow him, people will volunteer to follow him. That's the build up for a leader. Jon Snow is a real leader.

oyetpel:
Jon Snow hater for no reason. The fight they (wildings) agree to fight with Jon Snow was against white walkers not participate in a battle within northern houses. They despise and hate all southern of the wall. And yet you expect them to just agree ones. It was white walkers they agree to fight not northern houses battle, so stick that in you. Another thing is they would have even agree to fight with him against the Boltons, case Jon gave them a reason saying if they don't fight with him, after Ramsey Bolton is done defeating Jon, na even The young umber house go finish the wildings. But you know the writers made Jon Snow weak by making Tormund also have a say in the wildings decision.

God bless u bro...u and others have tried enough. That's the way the writers want it and nothing anybody can do about it...period

UjSizzle was that the meaning of the rose that Queen Margery gave her mother?

I thought she even had one epic plan to defeat all those religious people because her conversion was just sudden and suspicious!

codedguy1:
First of all we all agree Ramsay is a mad man.

After he killed Rickon he signalled his archers to shoot, that made Jon charge forward because he was now a stting duck out in the open.


Rickon running zigzagardly would mean nothing if Ramsay unleashed his archers just to killed him. The arrows got him even when he was dead on the floor right after jon charged forward.

But @ least,he has not ordered his archers yet...he stood a chance running zigzag

oyetpel:
Jon Snow hater for no reason. The fight they (wildings) agree to fight with Jon Snow was against white walkers not participate in a battle within northern houses. They despise and hate all southern of the wall. And yet you expect them to just agree ones. It was white walkers they agree to fight not northern houses battle, so stick that in you. Another thing is they would have even agree to fight with him against the Boltons, case Jon gave them a reason saying if they don't fight with him, after Ramsey Bolton is done defeating Jon, na even The young umber house go finish the wildings. But you know the writers made Jon Snow weak by making Tormund also have a say in the wildings decision.

I'm beginning to think that it is impossible to have either a civil and/or a measured discussion about this show.
I'm not sure that if I should be continuing this discussion, if after reading multiple posts of mine discussing just one particular facet of Jon Snow's character traits, your conclusion is that I hate Jon Snow...and for NO reason.

I remember I raised this point a few pages back:

Nihilist:
They fought, Jon lost, and was rescued by forces who he had neither summoned, nor had under control.

Does it sound logical that when he was shouting 'we fought, we won etc', that not a single person there would point out that he actually had to be rescued from his folly?

So Baelish just sat down there and let Jon share the credit, especially when littlefinger didn't even come to the battle for Jon?

my point has been simple, Jon has been making some pretty bad decisions, and his only backer up until ep 10 was a child....so why has no one called them out on this?

I was reading an interview with Sophie Turner, and this is what she had to say:

Q: What’s going through Sansa’s mind in those final moments as Jon’s being declared King in the North?

A: She’s not getting the credit she feels she deserves, that Littlefinger would grant her with. He obviously wants her on the Iron Throne and him by her side – she doesn’t want that, but she wants recognition for the effort that she put in, in order to claim back Winterfell, because if it wasn’t for her, it wouldn’t have happened. So I think she’s seeing Littlefinger as a bit more trustworthy and more of an ally than she initially thought.

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-7-spoilers-jon-sansa-littlefinger-marry-theory-sophie-turner-1201805047/


Another interview with Sansa here:

Q:The Starks are back in Winterfell, and in the finale, Jon and Sansa have a conversation about trust: "We need to trust each other, because we have so many enemies now." Does Sansa trust Jon, ultimately?

A:I think Sansa trusts Jon to make morally right decisions, but I'm not sure if she trusts him with the kind of political things

Q: In the scene, Sansa tells Jon that only a fool would trust Littlefinger. Later, she meets with Littlefinger and he paints this picture of himself on the Iron Throne, with Sansa at his side. She rejects him in the moment, but when Jon is crowned King in the North, Sansa and Littlefinger exchange a look. What is Sansa thinking about Littlefinger's pitch by the end of the episode?

A: As you say, she rejects him in the beginning, but there's definitely something in her that's … it's kind of a jealousy toward Jon. He's getting all of the credit for basically Sansa saving his ass. Obviously he played a huge part in the Battle of the Bastards, but Sansa really saved him. There's a bit of jealousy there. She looks at Littlefinger knowing that he would have put her as Queen in the North, and given her the credit she deserves.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-finale-sophie-turner-906820



Now listen to Kit Harrington himself on Jon Snow:

“We can’t fight a war amongst ourselves. We have so many enemies now,” Jon tells Sansa. But although the moment is tender, it also foreshadows a bigger problem in their relationship. Snow, who has never had to play delicate political games Sansa excels at, continues to underestimate her power — instead just seeing her as a little sister, not a cunning politician in her own right, with her own ambitions.

“I think Jon is oblivious. He hasn’t actually learned his lesson from trying to pay attention to what she’s feeling. He says he has, but he’s asking her to trust him. He’s not listening and watching and observing her,” Kit Harington says of his character’s shortcomings. That could especially be a problem when we consider Sansa’s subsequent conversation with Littlefinger.

I don't hate Jon Snow, but I think he's a disastrous leader. Pre-BoB, he had only really been trusted as a leader by an immature child and an ignorant wildling. That's why I could not understand why the Nothern Lords were so eager to trust him. Shikena.

Nihilist:
Mate Jon Snow is a terrible commander and if you've been paying attention, you will notice that nobody seems to trust him as a leader....well, except for Tormmund and that little girl.

At Hardhome, despite the threats of the whitewalkers, despite the intervention of Tormmund who personally beat one of their leaders to death, the majority of the wildlings refused to follow him.

At Castle Black, some of his own subordinates consider him a traitor and kill him, and in the meeting where Aliser explains his logic to the members of the watch, we see that majority of the nights watch agree with his killing. Again, Jon has to rely on Tormmund to prevail on the members of the watch so that he could take his revenge.

When it came to the time to fight the Boltons, the major lords refused to trust him. Sansa refused to trust him. Tormmund had to remind the remaining wildlings about how Jon had to literrally die for them. Even the Lyanna had to be talked into backing Jon by Davos!

It is important to note up until the battle of the bastards, literally nobody trusts in Jon as a leader. Tormmund is loyal to Jon as friend and not as a leader. Tormmund has described himself as not being clever, and was ignorant of battle tactics as seen during the discussion with Jon and Davos.

Davos himself stressed how important it was to stick to the plan. Sansa told him that Ramsay would act in the way he did.

We can see that at almost every stage of his journey, Jon's judgement has (rightly)been questioned by many of the characters he interacts with. Even his own babe called him an Olodo.


So this is exactly why, I'm not judging Jon in hindsight. Everybody knew he would fuckup. This guy has constantly and consistently been one of the most idiotic characters in the GOT universe. Which is why I find it exceptionally galling that none of the Nothern Lords noticed this post-BoB

Guy...I don't even know wher to start cos it seems u just don't like d guy cos all ds points u raised are null and void. I mean all. That he is a bastard is a big question mark on him. And that is d MAJOR reason some ppl refuse him or question him. It has notin to do wit his qualities or skills as a leader. @ Hardhome, wud u follow ur enemy (of a thousand years) because of a threat (Whitewalkers) u don't even believe exists. @ Castleblack, of course he's seen as a traitor cos he did what was NEVER done or tot to b done. Simple logic, Enemy of my enemy is (can be) my friend. To fight d boltons, houses didn't follow him MAJORLY because he is a BASTARD, notin more..ask Lord Klaber (or however that is spelt). If it was young Brandon (witout any fighting experience sef)asking, they wud ansa, believe it or not. Lady Mormont has to talked into...Same reason 'BASTARd'....remember her major reason was questioning if either of them(Sansa or Jon) was a Stark and Ser Davos spoke highly of Jon and how he can b d only person that cud lead....come,wht da hell are talking bout sef??.....U just don't like d dude...forget ur points

gj22:
All your points are made totally out of context.

How do you want the Wildlings to fight for him when they don't know him? He was a crow and they literally have just met him for the first time. How are they supposed to know What type of commander he is?

The other lords didn't want to fight for him because the feared the Bolton and also knew that he had an army made up of Wildlings whom they hate. They didn't know what type of commander he was.

Wait, nobody trusts in Jon snow as a leader yet he was elected lord commander of the nights watch? Now, i know you are just arguing for arguments sake

Thank you,Bro...if I know u have responded...wouldn't have bothered

kenturkish:
From all your posts it's obvious you hate Jon snow, how do you expect the wildlings to just follow him? Someone who has been their enemy for thousands of years, Jon snow was elected Commander of the watch after sam sang his praises and reminded every one how jon snow Led them @ the battle after ser aliser Thorne was injured. He does what he feels is right and he stands by his decision, jon snow is seen as a legend in the north your beloved ramsay even said so himself.

Didn't know ppl have responded to his post...thank U jare...exactly my point...

Nihilist:
I'm beginning to think that it is impossible to have either a civil and/or a measured discussion about this show.
I'm not sure that if I should be continuing this discussion, if after reading multiple posts of mine discussing just one particular facet of Jon Snow's character traits, your conclusion is that I hate Jon Snow...and for NO reason.

I remember I raised this point a few pages back:



I was reading an interview with Sophie Turner, and this is what she had to say:


http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-7-spoilers-jon-sansa-littlefinger-marry-theory-sophie-turner-1201805047/


Another interview with Sansa here:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-finale-sophie-turner-906820



Now listen to Kit Harrington himself on Jon Snow:



I don't hate Jon Snow, but I think he's a disastrous leader. Pre-BoB, he had only really been trusted as a leader by an immature child and an ignorant wildling. That's why I could not understand why the Nothern Lords were so eager to trust him. Shikena.

If you had to seek refuge in Google to grant you posts about people seeing Jon snow has a bad leader then 4get it bruh.Big Bang Theory Is the best comedy sitcom in the world but thousands still say it's wack.so back to GOT,i can also go to google and bring out authentic posts saying Jon is the best there ever was.Get me

Emmyk:
How you guys remember all their names is still mindblowing. I have been following the show since May 2014 and I still don't know some characters by name.

Haahahahahaha....be more interested I guess

Nihilist:
The same guys that elected Jon Snow ended up publicly executing him , so what exactly is your point?

If you look at each of the events I've mentioned, you will see that generally people just don't seem to believe in Jon for whatever reason.

Take the Wildlings for example. Jon warned them of white walkers which gave some of them time to escape. He defied customs that had stood for centuries by allowing the wildlings beyond the wall for their personal safety, and even lost his life for this decision in the process!

Yet the wildlings were still reluctant to fight for him until Tormmund yet again had to intercede

Sansa, his own sister was prepared for him for him to ride his men to certain death , rather than hand him control of the Vale armies.

One event could be bad luck. 2 could be coincidence. 3 is a trend.

Just to confirm that I'm not mad, I Googled 'Jon Snow is a Terrible leader' and found all sorts of publications agreeing with me for the EXACT same reasons I've given - from NY times to Playboy.

I know the guy is a popular character, but I thought it would be pretty obvious that he has severe leadership flaws.

Finally, I really don't appreciate your final sentence saying I'm arguing for arguments sake. I have had to remind you a couple of times now. Attack my argument, not my person. If you feel you are incapable of doing this, then don't quote me. I can be quite nasty myself.

Sansa don't have control of Vale knights...she was reluctant to ask Lord Baelish for help knowing who he is....but in fact she had to cos of her brother who u say she don't trust

Nihilist:
The same guys that elected Jon Snow ended up publicly executing him , so what exactly is your point?

If you look at each of the events I've mentioned, you will see that generally people just don't seem to believe in Jon for whatever reason.

Take the Wildlings for example. Jon warned them of white walkers which gave some of them time to escape. He defied customs that had stood for centuries by allowing the wildlings beyond the wall for their personal safety, and even lost his life for this decision in the process!

Yet the wildlings were still reluctant to fight for him until Tormmund yet again had to intercede

Sansa, his own sister was prepared for him for him to ride his men to certain death , rather than hand him control of the Vale armies.

One event could be bad luck. 2 could be coincidence. 3 is a trend.

Just to confirm that I'm not mad, I Googled 'Jon Snow is a Terrible leader' and found all sorts of publications agreeing with me for the EXACT same reasons I've given - from NY times to Playboy.

I know the guy is a popular character, but I thought it would be pretty obvious that he has severe leadership flaws.

Finally, I really don't appreciate your final sentence saying I'm arguing for arguments sake. I have had to remind you a couple of times now. Attack my argument, not my person. If you feel you are incapable of doing this, then don't quote me. I can be quite nasty myself.

Or didn't U see how happy she was when He was declared King in the North until she looked @ Baelish

I want to Google one thing online, 'Jon Snow is a good leader'.

oyetpel:
If anybody wants to hate on Jon Snow its not now that they have really built up hos character. Jom Snow always make some decisions, questionable ones, and mostly decisions that go against the principle of Castle back, but he always gets his wish, and people always follow him, people will volunteer to follow him. That's the build up for a leader. Jon Snow is a real leader .

I'll have to agree with you on this...thinking Jon would always make decisions that would yield positive results is like making him all knowing, no human real or not is that perfect, I believe he's going through a process. Imagine sending the Red Witch away for killing Shireen, same woman who resurrected him? People like Daenerys, Ramsey, Stannis or Cersei wouldn't give a rat's arse whose child was killed as long the Red Witch still served a purpose to them. To some, twas a stupid move because he still has enemies around him eg Baelish, but Jon doesn't care..he must just do what he thinks is right. And like I said..,he never fought or struggled for any position he got...it always came to him, surely there must something about him that stands out. Such people are bound to have enemies, deadly ones.

snezBaba:
If you had to seek refuge in Google to grant you posts about people seeing Jon snow has a bad leader then 4get it bruh.Big Bang Theory Is the best comedy sitcom in the world but thousands still say it's wack.so back to GOT,i can also go to google and bring out authentic posts saying Jon is the best there ever was.Get me

Exactly my words out of ur mouth...well done

platos56:
Guy...I don't even know wher to start cos it seems u just don't like d guy cos all ds points u raised are null and void. I mean all. That he is a bastard is a big question mark on him. And that is d MAJOR reason some ppl refuse him or question him. It has notin to do wit his qualities or skills as a leader. @ Hardhome, wud u follow ur enemy (of a thousand years) because of a threat (Whitewalkers) u don't even believe exists. @ Castleblack, of course he's seen as a traitor cos he did what was NEVER done or tot to b done. Simple logic, Enemy of my enemy is (can be) my friend. To fight d boltons, houses didn't follow him MAJORLY because he is a BASTARD, notin more..ask Lord Klaber (or however that is spelt). If it was young Brandon (witout any fighting experience sef)asking, they wud ansa, believe it or not. Lady Mormont has to talked into...Same reason 'BASTARd'....remember her major reason was questioning if either of them(Sansa or Jon) was a Stark and Ser Davos spoke highly of Jon and how he can b d only person that cud lead....come,wht da hell are talking bout sef??.....U just don't like d dude...forget ur points

I may have to be more discriminating when deciding to who to respond to in future

I will try and answer your post, not because I believe it is of any particular value or worth replying, but just to show how events as they happened are considered irrelevant, when the defence of a beloved character is of utmost concern. Seems like even the facts are not allowed to get in the way of your narrative

For instance.

To fight d boltons, houses didn't follow him MAJORLY because he is a BASTARD, notin more..ask Lord Klaber (or however that is spelt).

This is a bold faced lie.

Lord Glover on why he refused to answer Jon -

"Yes, my family served House Stark for centuries. We wept when we heard of your father's death. When my brother was Lord of this castle he answered Robb's call and hailed him King in the North! And where was "King" Robb when the Ironborn attacked this castle? When they threw my wife and children in prison and brutalized and killed our subjects? Taking up with a foreign wh0re... getting himself and those who followed him killed."

You can see that Glover is clearly questioning Stark Leadership here....No mention of the word 'Bastard'

Lord Manderly on why he refused to answer Jon -

""Lady Mormont speaks harshly... and truly. My son died for Robb Stark, the Young Wolf. I didn't think we'd find another king in my lifetime. I didn't commit my men to your cause because I didn't want more Manderlys dying for nothing."

Again the questions of leadership is raised, framed against a concern that Jon would have the Manderlys die for nothing'

Both Lords are very particular in pointing out that the safety of their men was of utmost priority, and neither one of them felt that Jon could guarantee their continued safety.

remember her major reason was questioning if either of them(Sansa or Jon) was a Stark and Ser Davos spoke highly of Jon and how he can b d only person that cud lead

Another bold faced lie. Davos never sold Jon to Lyanna as a great leader. Instead he appealed to her instinct for self-preservation.

His speech below

"Jeor Mormont and Jon Snow both understood that the real war isn't between a few squabbling houses. It's between the living and the dead. And make no mistake my lady, the dead are coming."
As long as the Boltons hold Winterfell, the North is divided. And a divided North won't stand a chance against the Night King. You want to protect your people my lady, I understand. But there's no hiding from this. We have to fight. And we need to do it together"

@ Hardhome, wud u follow ur enemy (of a thousand years) because of a threat (Whitewalkers) u don't even believe exists.

I agree...which is why I did not focus on that in isolation. Like I said, he saved some of them from the whitewalkers and then offered them sanctuary at Castle Black doing away with a tradition that has held several centuries, and at the expense of his own life...yet these guys are still reluctant to fight for him at Winterfell. He has made enormous sacrifices to keep the wildlings alive, and yet was still unable to muster their loyalty without help- HOW COME?

@ Castleblack, of course he's seen as a traitor cos he did what was NEVER done or tot to b done.

This is exactly the point. The Lord Commander of the night's watch perfomed an noble act that was morally right. Yet his subordinates disagreed so strongly with his decision that they actually chose to MURDER HIM. If that is not the biggest exhibit of a lack of faith in his leadership, then I don't know what is.

I'm done with this debate. I cannot continue to repeat myself and deal with the same non-coherent arguments time and again.

No vex bo

Nihilist:
I'm beginning to think that it is impossible to have either a civil and/or a measured discussion about this show.
I'm not sure that if I should be continuing this discussion, if after reading multiple posts of mine discussing just one particular facet of Jon Snow's character traits, your conclusion is that I hate Jon Snow...and for NO reason.

I remember I raised this point a few pages back:



I was reading an interview with Sophie Turner, and this is what she had to say:


http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-7-spoilers-jon-sansa-littlefinger-marry-theory-sophie-turner-1201805047/


Another interview with Sansa here:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-finale-sophie-turner-906820



Now listen to Kit Harrington himself on Jon Snow:



I don't hate Jon Snow, but I think he's a disastrous leader. Pre-BoB, he had only really been trusted as a leader by an immature child and an ignorant wildling. That's why I could not understand why the Nothern Lords were so eager to trust him. Shikena.

Besides I see no jealousy.....that is what they tot she SHOULD feel...but watch that scene again...she was happy for him...her expression only changed wen she looked @ Baelish and that expression is 'distrust for Baelish'...like 'what's he gonna do now'....Not jealousy

platos56:
Besides I see no jealousy.....that is what they tot she SHOULD feel...but watch that scene again...she was happy for him...her expression only changed wen she looked @ Baelish and that expression is 'distrust for Baelish'...like 'what's he gonna do now'....Not jealousy

You know the people I quoted are the actors who actually play Sansa and Jon right?

http://wikiofthrones.com/2540/12-details-you-might-have-missed-in-game-of-thrones-season-6-episode-10-the-winds-of-winter/?giulia


http://wikiofthrones.com/2516/infographic-important-game-thrones-characters-related-jon-snows-birth/?giulia

Epic..

Nihilist:
I may have to be more discriminating when deciding to who to respond to in future

I will try and answer your post, not because I believe it is of any particular value or worth replying, but just to show how events as they happened are considered irrelevant, when the defence of a beloved character is of utmost concern. Seems like even the facts are not allowed to get in the way of your narrative

For instance.


This is a bold faced lie.

Lord Glover on why he refused to answer Jon -

"Yes, my family served House Stark for centuries. We wept when we heard of your father's death. When my brother was Lord of this castle he answered Robb's call and hailed him King in the North! And where was "King" Robb when the Ironborn attacked this castle? When they threw my wife and children in prison and brutalized and killed our subjects? Taking up with a foreign wh0re... getting himself and those who followed him killed."

You can see that Glover is clearly questioning Stark Leadership here....No mention of the word 'Bastard'

Lord Manderly on why he refused to answer Jon -

""Lady Mormont speaks harshly... and truly. My son died for Robb Stark, the Young Wolf. I didn't think we'd find another king in my lifetime. I didn't commit my men to your cause because I didn't want more Manderlys dying for nothing."

Again the questions of leadership is raised, framed against a concern that Jon would have the Manderlys die for nothing'

Both Lords are very particular in pointing out that the safety of their men was of utmost priority, and neither one of them felt that Jon could guarantee their continued safety.



Another bold faced lie. Davos never sold Jon to Lyanna as a great leader. Instead he appealed to her instinct for self-preservation.

His speech below

"Jeor Mormont and Jon Snow both understood that the real war isn't between a few squabbling houses. It's between the living and the dead. And make no mistake my lady, the dead are coming."
As long as the Boltons hold Winterfell, the North is divided. And a divided North won't stand a chance against the Night King. You want to protect your people my lady, I understand. But there's no hiding from this. We have to fight. And we need to do it together"


I agree...which is why I did not focus on that in isolation. Like I said, he saved some of them from the whitewalkers and then offered them sanctuary at Castle Black doing away with a tradition that has held several centuries, and at the expense of his own life...yet these guys are still reluctant to fight for him at Winterfell. He has made enormous sacrifices to keep the wildlings alive, and yet was still unable to muster their loyalty without help- HOW COME?


This is exactly the point. The Lord Commander of the night's watch perfomed an noble act that was morally right. Yet his subordinates disagreed so strongly with his decision that they actually chose to MURDER HIM. If that is not the biggest exhibit of a lack of faith in his leadership, then I don't know what is.

I'm done with this debate. I cannot continue to repeat myself and deal with the same non-coherent arguments time and again.

No vex bo

Done with it too cos it seems we would never have a meeting ground

homesteady:
UjSizzle was that the meaning of the rose that Queen Margery gave her mother?

I thought she even had one epic plan to defeat all those religious people because her conversion was just sudden and suspicious!

Just a poem o

We must also understand that some of these interviews are granted to throw fans and viewers off balance..we were told that Jon was Dead and the hound was left to rot , end of story but the show runners had other plans. I don't think Sansa has any sort of plans to be with LF. She's not even considering Nada..she knows him and is just being skeptic about what proclaiming Jon as King in the North would push him to do..all I see is an anxious look, nothing more. LF is a bloody instigator, she witnessed first hand how he killed her Aunt and made her lie for him. Who wants to have such a self centered man as husband. LF uses people, that's all.

platos56:
Haahahahahaha....be more interested I guess

I'm addicted. I told a lot and still tell, about the series, I make them watch the series.

Guess I'm not a sucker for characters' names in series, especially when they are much, like GOT's.