according to international study of the impact of christianity in africa. over time and currently,
85 - 90% of today christians are ignorant of their religion especially in Africa, simply because they do not study but depend on ignorant pastors (sorry to say, we are yet to have one pastor in Nigeria who understand Bible ). and largely because they were born and brought up in the religion, following a laid down doctrine or pattern, living all their lives to bring out fulfillment in the laid down Church doctrines but of no vail.
Now, atheists are perching on these ignorance to speak and dominate, but the day they come across any Christian who understand and explain the Bible differently and explicitly they keep quiet.
Now, hear the whole matter.
God exist as a spirit that is what the bible tells us.
so why do we believe?
it is true that we believe because we were born and made to believe from childhood just like Muslims were made to believe in Islam from childhood. but beyond that, we study to show ourselves approved and what we saw from our study of the Bible is that, if we are not sure that God do not exist, we cannot argue whether he exist or not(it's a matter of thinking ). But since the Bible says he exist, then the Bible should come with evidence and that evidence are the miracles of the Bible we read.
Now, this miracles continues today in our present life and we have seen and experience them that's why we believe.
Now, if you have never experience the miracles as an athiest, your position should be I DON'T KNOW WHETHER HE EXIST until you experience the miracles

paxonel:

Now, if you have never experience the miracles as an athiest, your position should be I DON'T KNOW WHETHER HE EXIST until you experience the miracles

That is actually the position of most atheists. Let us be allowed to test and monitor these miracles using scientific equipment. Have a faith healer regrow an amputated arm while biologists monitor the process. If this could be done just a single time then I would be convinced.

paxonel:

But since the Bible says he exist, then the Bible should come with evidence and that evidence are the miracles of the Bible we read.
Now, this miracles continues today in our present life and we have seen and experience them that's why we believe

That doesn't count as evidence... None of the supernatural claims in the bible have ever been independently & objectively verified. It's why Noah's ark and the resurrection aren't in history books.

Evidence requires unbiased, often systematic verification from multiple sources. The bible was written by secondhand accounts of people who weren't even alive at the time of said events. That is probably the weakest type of "evidence" possible.

And what are these modern day miracles you speak of? Improbable healing & recovery, going from poverty to a stable career, finally having children after multiple attempts -- these kinds of events are often labeled miracles by Christians but they can happen to anyone, even atheists, with just as much frequency. There is no reason to believe that it's the Christian God causing them to happen. It's more reasonable to think that unlikely good things just happen in life sometimes. Just like unlikely bad things happen to everyone as well.

A TRUE modern day miracle would be something like God arranging the stars in the Big Dipper to say "I am God!" or like onetrack suggested, a person's limb growing back spontaneously.

cloudgoddess:

That doesn't count as evidence... None of the supernatural claims in the bible have ever been independently & objectively verified. It's why Noah's ark and the resurrection aren't in history books.

Evidence requires unbiased, often systematic verification from multiple sources. The bible was written by secondhand accounts of people who weren't even alive at the time of said events. That is probably the weakest type of "evidence" possible.

And what are these modern day miracles you speak of? Improbable healing & recovery, going from poverty to a stable career, finally having children after multiple attempts -- these kinds of events are often labeled miracles by Christians but they can happen to anyone, even atheists, with just as much frequency. There is no reason to believe that it's the Christian God causing them to happen. It's more reasonable to think that unlikely good things just happen in life sometimes. Just like unlikely bad things happen to everyone as well.

A TRUE modern day miracle would be something like God arranging the stars in the Big Dipper to say "I am God!" or like onetrack suggested, a person's limb growing back spontaneously.

what i see as a true modern day miracle(what God want modern day people to see ) in not the type of miracles recorded in the Bible. those recorded in the Bible are second class miracles meant to convince people who want to see sudden spontaneous physical evidence of God existence(even christians are running to churches to observe pastors carrying out healing and commanding fire ) , and i tell you, God is not interested in doing all that child's play anymore.
what i see as modern day miracle is fulfilment of prophecy over time, like evolution(more than 2000 years ago Jesus was crucified)which is the greatest thing that has ever happened in the history of mankind. And we have seen the fulfilment of that prophecy right in our eyes, forget Bible days.
if you have ever read Bible, look at this.
Mark 4:30 And he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it?
mark 4:31 It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth:.
mark 4:32 But when it is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs, and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow of it.
the interpretation of this Scripture(exactly what was in the mind of Jesus when he was saying it) somehow has a way of affecting every human being living on earth today. That makes it the greatest miracle.
i googled it, and Google confirmed it.
How did Jesus knew this will happen after more than 2000 years?
Now, many christians don't care to understand this parable or prophesy. That's why they are constantly defeated by atheists.
But i call these scriptures mark 4(a type of gun ) that is used to shoot and silence every form of atheism.
may be i should just interprete it for you to understand

paxonel:
according to international study of the impact of christianity in africa. over time and currently,
85 - 90% of today christians are ignorant of their religion especially in Africa, simply because they do not study but depend on ignorant pastors (sorry to say, we are yet to have one pastor in Nigeria who understand Bible ). and largely because they were born and brought up in the religion, following a laid down doctrine or pattern, living all their lives to bring out fulfillment in the laid down Church doctrines but of no vail.
Now, atheists are perching on these ignorance to speak and dominate, but the day they come across any Christian who understand and explain the Bible differently and explicitly they keep quiet.
Now, hear the whole matter.
God exist as a spirit that is what the bible tells us.
so why do we believe?
it is true that we believe because we were born and made to believe from childhood just like Muslims were made to believe in Islam from childhood. but beyond that, we study to show ourselves approved and what we saw from our study of the Bible is that, if we are not sure that God do not exist, we cannot argue whether he exist or not(it's a matter of thinking ). But since the Bible says he exist, then the Bible should come with evidence and that evidence are the miracles of the Bible we read.
Now, this miracles continues today in our present life and we have seen and experience them that's why we believe.
Now, if you have never experience the miracles as an athiest, your position should be I DON'T KNOW WHETHER HE EXIST until you experience the miracles

Pure gibberish from another fragmented mind.

Basically, you're saying that lack of understanding and wrong interpretation of Scripture by Africans are the reasons for atheism?
Silly argument, considering that mainstream atheism is much more prevalent in formerly Christian Europe, from whence the scriptural translations emerged.

plaetton:

Pure gibberish from another fragmented mind.

Basically, you're saying that lack of understanding and wrong interpretation of Scripture by Africans are the reasons for atheism?
Silly argument, considering that mainstream atheism is much more prevalent in formerly Christian Europe, from whence the scriptural translations emerged.

..I love this..

onetrack:


That is actually the position of most atheists. Let us be allowed to test and monitor these miracles using scientific equipment. Have a faith healer regrow an amputated arm while biologists monitor the process. If this could be done just a single time then I would be convinced.

unfortunately, miracles are not tested using physical or scientific apparatus. that is why it is called miracles

plaetton:

Pure gibberish from another fragmented mind.

Basically, you're saying that lack of understanding and wrong interpretation of Scripture by Africans are the reasons for atheism?
Silly argument, considering that mainstream atheism is much more prevalent in formerly Christian Europe, from whence the scriptural translations emerged.

no,
i did not say that is the reason for atheism.
i say, atheists are taking advantage of ignorance in Christianity to remain in atheism especially in Africa.
that simply means, only if atheists know what the Bible teaches , that it do not all the time reflect what most pastors and churches teaches.
Yes, atheism has existed as long as the existence of mankind on earth.
remember, Galeleo was Imprisoned by the ancient Roman Catholic for saying the earth is spherical and not flat, that led to many christians turning into atheism.
so, the Church can be wrong sometimes, but that does not mean that the Bible is wrong

paxonel:

unfortunately, miracles are not tested using physical or scientific apparatus. that is why it is called miracles

Hello.

Do you remember when one Mr Oyedepo or so claimed to have driven a car for hundreds of kilometres on an empty tank? Since you ordinarily can't see the contents of a car's fuel tank, the claimant had to rely on the measurement taken by the fuel gauge. During the course of the miracle, with the car crusading ahead on its empty fuel tank, the fuel gauge continued to work and to produce a measurement of "no fuel". A fuel gauge is a very physical soulless device and it was able to observe the miraculous event. I think the measurement of a fuel gauge is evidence.

Similarly, when you tune into Emmanuel TV, you are looking through the eyes of another physical device, a camera, as it witnesses the abundance of miracles taking place nearly everywhere in its immediate vicinity (the ceiling is miracle free). You will agree that what a camera sees can be correctly called evidence.

So, fortunately, miracles can be tested using physical or scientific apparatus. Raise another objection.

finofaya:


Hello.

Do you remember when one Mr Oyedepo or so claimed to have driven a car for hundreds of kilometres on an empty tank? Since you ordinarily can't see the contents of a car's fuel tank, the claimant had to rely on the measurement taken by the fuel gauge. During the course of the miracle, with the car crusading ahead on its empty fuel tank, the fuel gauge continued to work and to produce a measurement of "no fuel". A fuel gauge is a very physical soulless device and it was able to observe the miraculous event. I think the measurement of a fuel gauge is evidence.

Similarly, when you tune into Emmanuel TV, you are looking through the eyes of another physical device, a camera, as it witnesses the abundance of miracles taking place nearly everywhere in its immediate vicinity (the ceiling is miracle free). You will agree that what a camera sees can be correctly called evidence.

So, fortunately, miracles can be tested using physical or scientific apparatus. Raise another objection.

lol,
I'm talking about supernaturals,
cameras and cars ain't supernaturals. they are worked by explainable principles

paxonel:

lol,
I'm talking about supernaturals,
cameras and cars ain't supernaturals. they are worked by explainable principles

Are you? You said physical things cannot test miracles. I gave you examples of physical things doing just that and now you say you're not speaking of physical things.

paxonel:

what i see as a true modern day miracle(what God want modern day people to see ) in not the type of miracles recorded in the Bible. those recorded in the Bible are second class miracles meant to convince people who want to see sudden spontaneous physical evidence of God existence(even christians are running to churches to observe pastors carrying out healing and commanding fire ) , and i tell you, God is not interested in doing all that child's play anymore.
what i see as modern day miracle is fulfilment of prophecy over time, like evolution(more than 2000 years ago Jesus was crucified)which is the greatest thing that has ever happened in the history of mankind. And we have seen the fulfilment of that prophecy right in our eyes, forget Bible days.
if you have ever read Bible, look at this.
Mark 4:30 And he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it?
mark 4:31 It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth:.
mark 4:32 But when it is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs, and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow of it.
the interpretation of this Scripture(exactly what was in the mind of Jesus when he was saying it) somehow has a way of affecting every human being living on earth today. That makes it the greatest miracle.
i googled it, and Google confirmed it.
How did Jesus knew this will happen after more than 2000 years?
Now, many christians don't care to understand this parable or prophesy. That's why they are constantly defeated by atheists.
But i call these scriptures mark 4(a type of gun ) that is used to shoot and silence every form of atheism.
may be i should just interprete it for you to understand

Kai!!! Begin go.

You're fucking kidding me

Weah96:


Kai!!! Begin go.

Weah96:


Kai!!! Begin go.

lol
i was on my own

finofaya:


Are you? You said physical things cannot test miracles. I gave you examples of physical things doing just that and now you say you're not speaking of physical things.

ok,
the examples.
sorry i didn't comment on them.
actually, for a vehicle to continue moving there should be fuel in the tank powering the movement. But if it is true that the vehicle keeps moving without fuel in the tank then it becomes something that cannot be explained.
if you say the empty fuel thank is used to observe the miracle you are right, but it cannot be used to explain the miracle.
the same thing applies to the camera

onetrack:


That is actually the position of most atheists. Let us be allowed to test and monitor these miracles using scientific equipment. Have a faith healer regrow an amputated arm while biologists monitor the process. If this could be done just a single time then I would be convinced.

Why don't you go and monitor the process by which uranium atoms detonate at critical mass in nuclear bombs..

Common AIDS VIRUS Una never fit monitor well..

Na God in action you wan monitor..

If the anointing touch you for your unbelief,
E'm go just scatter you...

Go monitor God.

You don fit monitor your earthly papa?

Na Baba God you wan monitor..

Mtchew