gj22:


He wasnt a bad leader and didn't deserve the death. He tried to do the right thing like his Foster father and it got him killed. That's like saying Ned is a bad person.

Ariees:

if u still think jon will serve as a follower, then u havent been paying enough attention. I guess that is your honest opinion, but i want you to follow the thought process of the writers, all they have done to jon' s character is to lift him up. from a broody bastard to Lord commander to targeryen surnname c' mon bro at least meet them halfway.

losprince:

Stark leadership not jons, and he had no right to question stark leadership because it was his bloody castle and everyone was off to war.
The young wolf didn't get everyone killed, he took them to a wedding... It was the boltons, the freys that killed them all..



Jons leadership wasn't questioned here, the lord was just skeptical, Jon didn't have the army and to him it didn't seem like jon had a chance of winning


Every lord would take their men's safety as utmost priority, they didn't feel jon couldn't protect their men, They feared he didn't have the men to win.



He outrightly sold jon as a great leader, Only a great leader could see beyond the fights against a few squabbling houses and want to unite everyone to fight a greater enemy, that's why he led the wildlings past the wall in the first place


You can't just walk up to the free folk and ask them to follow you to a fight that doesn't really concern them, you saved their lives on the condition that they would fight with you against the white walkers and they agreed, anybody would be relunctant.... also remember when jon was dead at the wall it was the free folk who unrelunctantly rushed there to avenge his death. Besides people would only follow you when you give them a strong reason to not because you did something for them.


Those men bore him no love, Ser alliser had already twisted their minds.


GOOD

Endy10:


Just to end this argument.
I don't think either of the houses would have committed men regardless of who was leading the charge. Their main concern was with losing more men, not that Jon was in charge. They never questioned his leadership, they questioned the cause.

oyetpel:

Abeg bro leave the guy. Glover even said house Stark is dead, why? Lady Mormont even mentioned it when she was counseled by her Maester that, Jon Snow is a bastard and even a man of the Night's watch, Sansa don marry Tyrion, marriee Bolton sef, tell me is house Stark not dead?? But they actually also use it as an excuse not to follow Jon, this is not a question about leadership at all, that's why i called the guy a Jon hater. Nobody questioned his leadership, those houses that didn't follow him were just thinking logically. Lyanna supported Jon with instinct, her maester would have told her not to, listen to Lyanna Mormont speech again when they declared Jon Snow a King. She said she doesn't care if he's a bastard. Your Glover that you are talking about sef ask for forgiveness for not commiting men to Jon's cause. You are just hating on a tv character whose Leadership was not questioned at anytime.

Nihilist:


Mate Jon Snow is a terrible commander and if you've been paying attention, you will notice that nobody seems to trust him as a leader....well, except for Tormmund and that little girl.

At Hardhome, despite the threats of the whitewalkers, despite the intervention of Tormmund who personally beat one of their leaders to death, the majority of the wildlings refused to follow him.

At Castle Black, some of his own subordinates consider him a traitor and kill him, and in the meeting where Aliser explains his logic to the members of the watch, we see that majority of the nights watch agree with his killing. Again, Jon has to rely on Tormmund to prevail on the members of the watch so that he could take his revenge.

When it came to the time to fight the Boltons, the major lords refused to trust him. Sansa refused to trust him. Tormmund had to remind the remaining wildlings about how Jon had to literrally die for them. Even the Lyanna had to be talked into backing Jon by Davos!

It is important to note up until the battle of the bastards, literally nobody trusts in Jon as a leader. Tormmund is loyal to Jon as friend and not as a leader. Tormmund has described himself as not being clever, and was ignorant of battle tactics as seen during the discussion with Jon and Davos.

Davos himself stressed how important it was to stick to the plan. Sansa told him that Ramsay would act in the way he did.

We can see that at almost every stage of his journey, Jon's judgement has (rightly)been questioned by many of the characters he interacts with. Even his own babe called him an Olodo.


So this is exactly why, I'm not judging Jon in hindsight. Everybody knew he would fuckup. This guy has constantly and consistently been one of the most idiotic characters in the GOT universe. Which is why I find it exceptionally galling that none of the Nothern Lords noticed this post-BoB

oyetpel:

Abeg bro leave the guy. Glover even said house Stark is dead, why? Lady Mormont even mentioned it when she was counseled by her Maester that, Jon Snow is a bastard and even a man of the Night's watch, Sansa don marry Tyrion, marriee Bolton sef, tell me is house Stark not dead?? But they actually also use it as an excuse not to follow Jon, this is not a question about leadership at all, that's why i called the guy a Jon hater. Nobody questioned his leadership, those houses that didn't follow him were just thinking logically. Lyanna supported Jon with instinct, her maester would have told her not to, listen to Lyanna Mormont speech again when they declared Jon Snow a King. She said she doesn't care if he's a bastard. Your Glover that you are talking about sef ask for forgiveness for not commiting men to Jon's cause. You are just hating on a tv character whose Leadership was not questioned at anytime.

shegsrules:
http://wikiofthrones.com/2540/12-details-you-might-have-missed-in-game-of-thrones-season-6-episode-10-the-winds-of-winter/?giulia


http://wikiofthrones.com/2516/infographic-important-game-thrones-characters-related-jon-snows-birth/?giulia

Epic..

gj22:


It's more romance now and less sciency. I used to follow religiously but i now watch occasionally

Lana1:
I know. I know. Am late. But just finished watching episode 9. And i just ve to say Ramsay's death was so satisfying, it actually put a smile on my face.
Haven't smiled that hard at anybody's death in GoT since that bîtch was poisoned at his own wedding.

magabounce:
No sir, house stark is not dead yet. Even though Jon is a bastard, bran still lives remember?

losprince:

Stark leadership not jons, and he had no right to question stark leadership because it was his bloody castle and everyone was off to war.
The young wolf didn't get everyone killed, he took them to a wedding... It was the boltons, the freys that killed them all..



Jons leadership wasn't questioned here, the lord was just skeptical, Jon didn't have the army and to him it didn't seem like jon had a chance of winning


Every lord would take their men's safety as utmost priority, they didn't feel jon couldn't protect their men, They feared he didn't have the men to win.



He outrightly sold jon as a great leader, Only a great leader could see beyond the fights against a few squabbling houses and want to unite everyone to fight a greater enemy, that's why he led the wildlings past the wall in the first place


You can't just walk up to the free folk and ask them to follow you to a fight that doesn't really concern them, you saved their lives on the condition that they would fight with you against the white walkers and they agreed, anybody would be relunctant.... also remember when jon was dead at the wall it was the free folk who unrelunctantly rushed there to avenge his death. Besides people would only follow you when you give them a strong reason to not because you did something for them.


Those men bore him no love, Ser alliser had already twisted their minds.


GOOD

kaydee:
@Nihilist reminds me of Jackal/Sauron with his arguments. It's obvious no one shares your opinion.
Jon made a great emotional mistake despite the fact that Sansa forewarned him and it's understandable. He's been a Stark most of his life and they always make that error.
Now everyone who doubted him or questioned his ability and leadership qualities is asking for forgiveness. He's marked for greatness and a better leader than anyone in the Seven kingdoms.
Give it up already and bow to the king in the north.

oyetpel:

Jom Snow. The King in the North. Am just scared for Jon Snow tho, all this King in the North with no crown and proper coronation. Na so dem call Robb King in the Norf. But na Robb Bleep up sha. But that Volantis lady too dey tempting. She be like Lara wey come attend to peoples wound for Naija. Oshiomole jam am, nack am, marry am. Oshiomole the Fing in the Sauth.

Adek15:
You guys are not even talking about those little children that killed the Seton's guys and how was that 'shame' woman kidnapped?

newguy1:
i think its actually d best time for north to have a king with the way things r shaping .d war. They had 2 name him cus its long over due for d north to come together. N they all know the Bolton master mind the whole thing d frey have little or no army dey can easily b delt with

Eagul:


Why was the 'shame' woman crying? Was that huge guy fvcking her or wat?

SIRcumalot:

na I think the Lannister and the Frey are the main houses behind the red wedding.
the Frey have the twins and also you saw their army at riverrun.


hopefully we go get more screen time for rheagear and lyanna next season.
I hope Jon snow is still a child of a rape (which is against rheagear's character really)
if this was love then both lyanna and rheagear actions was selfish.

Adek15:
better fucking o both front and back but my ish is she wasn't even missed by her so called high septon

wiegraf:


IIRC Rheagar never cared for chivalry and whatnot, not until he came across a prophecy. One that predicted that tptwp (or some hero, can't remember which) would come from the targaryen/stark line.

He took the prophecy very seriously apparently. Same prophecy probably led to his great grand papa's death at summerhall, they year he was born.

He also may have met her before he crowned her his queen of love and beauty over his wife at the now (in)famous harrenhall tourney. She may have been the knight of the laughing tree. If he did meet her then, he might have been impressed by her actions and his belief that they (as a couple) were part of the prophecy may have been fully cemented then.

Regardless, even if she weren't the knight, his actions were brought about by the prophecy.

Similar to 'hold the door' issues, with the future influencing the present in a 'closed book'. But that may be another issue

Edit: I was wrong. The prediction is the child will be a targaryen, not necessarily a targaryen/stark. Then again, it also says the song of tptwp would one of 'ice and fire'. This could still be targ(fire) and stark(ice) but meh, that may be pushing it.

I doubt his actions were guided by just his pipi, but who knows?

Nihilist:


Mate Jon Snow is a terrible commander and if you've been paying attention, you will notice that nobody seems to trust him as a leader....well, except for Tormmund and that little girl.

At Hardhome, despite the threats of the whitewalkers, despite the intervention of Tormmund who personally beat one of their leaders to death, the majority of the wildlings refused to follow him.

At Castle Black, some of his own subordinates consider him a traitor and kill him, and in the meeting where Aliser explains his logic to the members of the watch, we see that majority of the nights watch agree with his killing. Again, Jon has to rely on Tormmund to prevail on the members of the watch so that he could take his revenge.

When it came to the time to fight the Boltons, the major lords refused to trust him. Sansa refused to trust him. Tormmund had to remind the remaining wildlings about how Jon had to literrally die for them. Even the Lyanna had to be talked into backing Jon by Davos!

It is important to note up until the battle of the bastards, literally nobody trusts in Jon as a leader. Tormmund is loyal to Jon as friend and not as a leader. Tormmund has described himself as not being clever, and was ignorant of battle tactics as seen during the discussion with Jon and Davos.

Davos himself stressed how important it was to stick to the plan. Sansa told him that Ramsay would act in the way he did.

We can see that at almost every stage of his journey, Jon's judgement has (rightly)been questioned by many of the characters he interacts with. Even his own babe called him an Olodo.


So this is exactly why, I'm not judging Jon in hindsight. Everybody knew he would fuckup. This guy has constantly and consistently been one of the most idiotic characters in the GOT universe. Which is why I find it exceptionally galling that none of the Nothern Lords noticed this post-BoB

Endy10:


Books. There are 5 of them, with an extract from the 6th, winds of winter. Could send it to you

UjSizzle: