₦airaland Forum

dalaman:
He doesn't need to know the reason. All he needs to know is that tricks were involved. You do not know how tricks are done and tou are busy insisting that it must be supernatural. How do you know? Ok you explain how the supernatural could have worked in this instance. Give us a detailed explanation of how the supernatural worked in this instance.

How in this case can you proof that tricks are involved?
The girl should win a Nobel Laureate in ACTING for her role in this clip. She sounds and looks effortlessly natural. Tell me its not true.

Even if one explains how the supernatural works, will you believe it? The answer is No! Why, the explanation will not be physical and therefore, it wouldn't satisfy you.

shadeyinka:
It is clear that you do not understand the spiritual rhelm. The rules are very different from that of the Physical. Often in the spiritual, you are not fully in control of the consequences of your action.

Its like a circus where you have animals trained to jump through a hoop or other things. The animals could choose not to jump...but its not a proof that the animals cannot jump through the hoop.

The spiritual is just a copout for baseless assertions. The spiritual is founded on illogical. Anything is permissible under the spiritual. It offers no explanation and requires non. It is the definition of bogus. The spiritual is not even well defined or explained. It is just meant to be taken at face value that is why many of us just strike it off. If the spiritual is real then come and demonstrate it openly in an objective way simple.

My Uncle was healed of Blindness during a Deeper life crusade at Ilorin a few years ago. His eyes just suddenly opened. If you like call it a coincidence...but then, a coincidence which takes place only when prayers are going on should be termed as miracles

Why should I believe you? I will believe that your uncle was healed if you provide his name with before and after pics to support your claim. You are making an extra ordinary claim, so for me to believe you you have to provide objective evidence. Was your uncle born blind? Did he recieve instant healing? What is his name? Where does he reside and what evidence do you have to show that he was blind and layer regained his sight? Are words of mouth all that you have? If that's all you have then am.sorry to say that you are lying. Provide objective evidence to show me that you aren't lying.

ifenes:
The blind have special books just like they play musical instruments.

Actually I am not concerned about the video . She may have been given the book to memorise before the show , but that is their own wahala . Can you address the miracle post I made earlier ?

dalaman:
Why should I believe you? I will believe that your uncle was healed if you provide his name with before and after pics to support your claim. You are making an extra ordinary claim, so for me to believe you you have to provide objective evidence. Was your uncle born blind? Did he recieve instant healing? What is his name? Where does he reside and what evidence do you have to show that he was blind and layer regained his sight? Are words of mouth all that you have? If that's all you have then am.sorry to say that [size=15pt]you are lying.[/size] Provide objective evidence to show me that you aren't lying.

One very easy way is to accuse you of lying and run away . Dalaman does this without shame

winner01:
Lol
Brace yourself Bro. An atheist will find a way to explain the supernatural, even if he has to be dishonest. ....

shadeyinka:
How in this case can you proof that tricks are involved?
The girl should win a Nobel Laureate in ACTING for her role in this clip. She sounds and looks effortlessly natural. Tell me its not true.

Even if one explains how the supernatural works, will you believe it? The answer is No! Why, the explanation will not be physical and therefore, it wouldn't satisfy you.

Being on her natual form means notthing. Magicians perfom better fit and they do it very naturally and effortlessly. You won't know they use tricks until threy tell you. Many people find it haed to believe that magicians use tricks even after they opwnly tell them that they used trixls on them. They still prefer to believe that the magicians have super natural abilities.Watch Daren Browns videos on YouTube. Even after explaining to people that he uses tricks a lot of them still refuse to accept. They feel he has some supernatural abilities.

You guys are always not serious with your claims and assertions. A girl is doing something physical and you are telling me that you have this elusive spiritual explanation that I will not accept. You are clearly running away from providing answers to my questions. Use the spiritual and explain to me how she was able to do whatever she did you are demanding that Seun explains the trick she used while insisting she must be using some.spiritual element. I agree she is using a spiritual element. Explain how the spiritual element works in this case. I am.waiting.

Crazyfinedude:
One very easy way is to accuse you of lying and run away . Dalaman does this without shame

If he is telling us the truth then he should provide evidence. He is making an extra ordinary claim. What can be asserted without evidence needs to be dismissed without evidence. His uncle was blind and later got back his sight at a deeper life crusade. Where is the evidence for this extra ordinary claim? Is a sentence on nairaland all he has to provide? Why should any skeptic take him seriously if that's all he has?

dalaman:
If he is telling us the truth then he should provide evidence. He is making an extra ordinary claim. What can be asserted without evidence needs to be dismissed without evidence. His uncle was blind and later got back his sight at a deeper life crusade. Where is the evidence for this extra ordinary claim? Is a sentence on nairaland all he has to provide? Why should any skeptic take him seriously if that's all he has?

Why would he lie ? If anyone has to lie to prove God then He should leave Christianity . Again , why would he lie ?

shadeyinka:
How in this case can you proof that tricks are involved

The burden of proof is on those claiming super powers, but in this case we can clearly see that there is a gap in the blindfold that she can see through.

The girl should win a Nobel Laureate in ACTING for her role in this clip. She sounds and looks effortlessly natural. Tell me its not true.

Actually, many children have won Oscar awards for acting, so it should be easy to believe that this sweet little girl is just a good actress and a competent one trick magician.

Crazyfinedude:
Why would he lie ? If anyone has to lie to prove God then He should leave Christianity . Again , why would he lie ?

Christians tell lies to promote their God ALL of the time. Pastors of Mega Churches have been caught telling lies to promote christianity so what are you saying? Telling lies to promote God is what christians do all the time. After all pastor Adeboye lied that he traveled for over 200km on an empty tank because God drove the car from him. Do you believe that he actually traveled for over 200km on an empty tank alone in the car?

Crazyfinedude:
Mr man , how can someone read while being blindfolded ? Explain

Some people are born that way or something unique happened to them. Sometimes a head injury could unveil the genius within you.

Example;

Derek Amato had a bad fall at the swimming pool,he was rushed to the hospital and diagnosed with brain damage. He lost 35 percent hearing loss in one ear, headaches, memory loss. But the most dramatic consequence appeared just four days after his accident. Amato awoke after near-continuous sleep and headed,spotted a piano and started playing one of the most amazing tunes. This is a guy who had never played the piano before. Look him up!

Stephen Hawkings is a very popular example. He hit is head on a concrete floor and ended up becoming a genius


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9mvRRwu5Gw

All these are no miracles as you might wish they were

ifenes:
Lets just say I am very much beyond your kindergarten level. Atheism is the disbelief in a god which is one of my many features.I am also into Philosophy,Sexology,Astrology,Psychology etc. I cover all human aspect of being.

Thanks for the nice intro and nice meeting you. And thanks for defining the term Atheism. Although instead of god(s), I like to replace with spirits.


Metaphysics is an advance knowledge of how physical perception works. Metaphysics is the branch of philosophy that deals with the first principles of things, including abstract concepts such as being, knowing, identity, time, and space.

To me the bible is an Astrological book. Well I know you probably do not know that and that is why you are a christian.

noun (plural metaphysics)
1. philosophy uncountable The branch of philosophy which studies fundamental principles intended to describe or explain all that is, and which are not themselves explained by anything more fundamental; the study of first principles; the study of being insofar as it is being (ens in quantum ens).
2. philosophy countable The view or theory of a particular philosopher or school of thinkers concerning the first principles which describe or explain all that is.
uncountable by extension from the philosophical sense Any fundamental principles or rules.
3. (uncountable) The study of a supersensual realm or of phenomena which transcend the physical world.
4. (uncountable) Displeasingly abstruse, complex material on any subject.
5. (countable) Plural of countable senses of metaphysic.

Sorry..there above are the dictionary shades of meanings of the word metaphysics. In context, we speak of meaning 3.

The Bible is NOT an astrological book. The Bible is mainly a Historical book. It details Gods dealing with man and mans reactions to God especially as it relates to the Jews so that the rest of us can learn.

noun (uncountable)
1. The study of the movements and relative positions of celestial bodies and their supposed influence on human affairs.
2. synonyms
starcraft, astrosophy, astromancy

A little Introduction:
I am a Christian
I love God
He owns me
I am a Physicist by training
I an an electronics enthusiast
I like philosophy.... Blah*10³

dalaman:
Christians tell lies to promote their God ALL of the time. Pastors of Mega Churches have been caught telling lies to promote christianity so what are you saying? Telling lies to promote God is what christians do all the time. After all pastor Adeboye lied that he traveled for over 200km on an empty tank because God drove the cat from him. Do you believe that he actually traveled for over 200km on an empty tank alone in the car?

That is even a "baby testimony" in my church . I've seen greater things and you are telling me nonsense about lies .

ifenes:
Some people are born that way or something unique happened to them. Sometimes a head injury could unveil the genius within you.

Example;

Derek Amato had a bad fall at the swimming pool,he was rushed to the hospital and diagnosed with brain damage. He lost 35 percent hearing loss in one ear, headaches, memory loss. But the most dramatic consequence appeared just four days after his accident. Amato awoke after near-continuous sleep and headed,spotted a piano and started playing one of the most amazing tunes. This is a guy who had never played the piano before. Look him up!

Stephen Hawkings is a very popular example. He hit is head on a concrete floor and ended up becoming a genius


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9mvRRwu5Gw

All these are no miracles as you might wish they were

Oooohhhm ! What's with these people and circumlocution . You didnt answer the question . How will a blindfolded person be able to READ ... and not playing pianos and becoming geniuses after hitting their heads anywhere - I didn't ask for that

Crazyfinedude:
One very easy way is to accuse you of lying and run away . Dalaman does this without shame

Thanks o. I told him ... MY uncle!
I didn't sa "One man"
He doesn't even know me, so how will my uncles name benefit him.

Crazyfinedude:
That is even a "baby testimony" in my church . I've seen greater things and you are telling me nonsense about lies .

That's why I maintain that they are lies. Christians do it all the time. I was once a christian and I know very well what am talking about.

What have you seen? Or are you going to start spewing more lies as usual?

shadeyinka:
Sorry..there above are the dictionary shades of meanings of the word metaphysics. In context, we speak of meaning 3.

The Bible is NOT an astrological book. The Bible is mainly a Historical book. It details Gods dealing with man and mans reactions to God especially as it relates to the Jews so that the rest of us can learn.




A little Introduction:
I am a Christian
I love God
He owns me
I am a Physicist by training
I an an electronics enthusiast
I like philosophy.... Blah*10³

Do not add to what I wrote and make it seem like I wrote them them. If you want an honest debate I will engage you in one. You can quote me but don't add. Thanks.

The Bible is pure Astrology. If you don't know I can enlighten you.

The Bible had no god,I don't know where you got that from? Perhaps you want us to move away from the topic of the thread.

Apparently the only Gods here on this discussion is you and I.

No body owns you,you may be experiencing an illusion of being owned by a god. Unfortunately that is only a 5mins dream.

What ever you studied in school is not reflecting on what you are typing. If you are a christian it means your university degree should be questioned.

Lastly,

shadeyinka:
Thanks o. I told him ... MY uncle!
I didn't sa "One man"
He doesn't even know me, so how will my uncles name benefit him.

Your uncle's before and after pics or else you are lying. I should believe that your uncle who was blind regained his sight miraculously because you said so? You are not serious. Are we not debating over a girl on video? Where is your own evidence for your extra ordinary claim?

Crazyfinedude:
Oooohhhm ! What's with these people and circumlocution . You didnt answer the question . How will a blindfolded person be able to READ ... and not playing pianos and becoming geniuses after hitting their heads anywhere - I didn't ask for that

Did you watch the video? If you can't understand what I explained and how unique circumstances can trigger the inner genius in a person,don't ask me again.

Crazyfinedude:
Oooohhhm ! What's with these people and circumlocution . You didnt answer the question . How will a blindfolded person be able to READ ... and not playing pianos and becoming geniuses after hitting their heads anywhere - I didn't ask for that

A blindfold person can be able to read if the blindfold wasn't covered properly and he/she has a way of seeingbthrough. It is not everything that appeats as it seems. It's as simple as that.

shadeyinka:
Thanks o. I told him ... MY uncle!
I didn't sa "One man"
He doesn't even know me, so how will my uncles name benefit him.

That's a popular trick employed by the atheist . He knows you wont give out personal information and he will keep asking for them . Obviously you wont oblige to his request , he then makes blatant claims that you dont want him to verify the miracle .

I've asked the atheists on Nairaland , if you have any disabled person visit the Lord's Chosen HQ with the person during any of the service days . Sit at the front and say that you dont believe in God and you want proof - a healing to your disabled relative/friend . If prayers are offered specially to the person and nothing happens , then you know its all fake .

Chikina !

ifenes:
Did you watch the video? If can't understand what I explained and how unique circumstances can trigger the inner genius in a person,don't ask me again.

I did and he needed sounds and propinquinty to figure stuff out . He will surely be given books specially made for the blind or even audios for learning

But for a blindfolded person . How is it possible , words on books dont make sounds

dalaman:
The spiritual is just a copout for baseless assertions. The spiritual is founded on illogical. Anything is permissible under the spiritual. It offers no explanation and requires non. It is the definition of bogus. The spiritual is not even well defined or explained. It is just meant to be taken at face value that is why many of us just strike it off. If the spiritual is real then come and demonstrate it openly in an objective way simple.

The spiritual is logical. The spiritual gave birth to the physical. If your comprehension is limited by the physical, then you cannot understand the spiritual. From Physics and the theory of the origin of the universe, you will arrive at only one conclusion. ..and the conclusion is that,
1. a non material rhelm exists as a superset of the universe.
2. An intelligence/ consciousness created the universe. Theists call Hi God/ gods.

dalaman:
Why should I believe you? I will believe that your uncle was healed if you provide his name with before and after pics to support your claim. You are making an extra ordinary claim, so for me to believe you you have to provide objective evidence. Was your uncle born blind? Did he recieve instant healing? What is his name? Where does he reside and what evidence do you have to show that he was blind and layer regained his sight? Are words of mouth all that you have? If that's all you have then am.sorry to say that you are lying. Provide objective evidence to show me that you aren't lying.

What you believe does no count. The reality is what matters after all it is not about your uncle.

Turn the table around..Suppose your uncle who had been blind for some years went to a crusade and came back seeing. What evidence would you need? ..a before and after photo? His full name as given to him by his Father? I didn't give the example to convince you, the example was one of those things that increased my Faith in God.

Crazyfinedude:
I did and he needed sounds and propoquinty to figure stuff out . He will surely be given books specially made for the blind or even audios for learning

But for a blindfolded person . How is it possible , words on books dont make sounds

It could be a trick or something studied before the interview or she tapped into more of senses unknown to humans with good sight. No one knows,and it certainly has nothing to do with a god or goddess.

Crazyfinedude:
That's a popular trick employed by the atheist . He knows you wont give out personal information and he will keep asking for them . Obviously you wont oblige to his request , he then makes blatant claims that you dont want him to verify the miracle .

I've asked the atheists on Nairaland , if you have any disabled person visit the Lord's Chosen HQ with the person during any of the service days . Sit at the front and say that you dont believe in God and you want proof - a healing to your disabled relative/friend . If prayers are offered specially to the person and nothing happens , then you know its all fake .

Chikina !

The Lord's Chosen been embroiled in accusation and counter accusation of fraud, decite, fake miracles and lies.

https://www.nairaland.com/1587075/chosen-church-failed-miracle-ala/3

http://www.pmnewsnigeria.com/2013/09/05/lords-chosen-fake-miracle-cds-flood-market/comment-page-1/

http://www.informationng.com/2013/12/graphic-photos-2-pastors-of-lords-chosen-church-4-others-nabbed-for-ritual-killings-viewer-discretion-advised.html

http://www.globalnewsnig.com/how-lord-chosen-charismatic-pastor-lazarus-muoka-is-defrauding-his-followers-with-fake-miracles/

http://dailypost.ng/2015/11/13/lords-chosen-nigerian-pastor-arrested-in-tanzania-for-allegedly-smuggling-cocaine/
Based on these reports many people have gone to the lords chosen and complained that their miracles are fake.

Crazyfinedude:
Actually I am not concerned about the video . She may have been given the book to memorise before the show , but that is their own wahala . Can you address the miracle post I made earlier ?

It is good to be objective. It seem Atheist do not care one bit about the Truth.
The fear of finding out the truth make the ignored without reason things that baffle their already made up mind

shadeyinka:
The spiritual is logical. The spiritual gave birth to the physical. If your comprehension is limited by the physical, then you cannot understand the spiritual. From Physics and the theory of the origin of the universe, you will arrive at only one conclusion. ..and the conclusion is that,
1. a non material rhelm exists as a superset of the universe.
2. An intelligence/ consciousness created the universe. Theists call Hi God/ gods.




What you believe does no count. The reality is what matters after all it is not about your uncle.

Turn the table around..Suppose your uncle who had been blind for some years went to a crusade and came back seeing. What evidence would you need? ..a before and after photo? His full name as given to him by his Father? I didn't give the example to convince you, the example was one of those things that increased my Faith in God.

Now you didn't give the example to convince me after I made rubbish of your claim. If your claim wasn't to convince me you wouldn't have brought it up. There are many before and after pictures of people on the Internet who regain their sight through corrective surgery. Those promoting the surgeons and their cause use the pictures and videos to encourage others to bring forward their blind friends and relatives for surgery.

You have a blind uncle that was healed as you claim. Why not bring forward his before and after pictures so that you will convince an atheist like me that the supernatural is real and gain a convert.

shadeyinka:
It is good to be objective. It seem Atheist do not care one bit about the Truth.
The fear of finding out the truth make the ignored without reason things that baffle their already made up mind

Atheist do not care about which truth? The "truth" that your "blind"uncle regained his sight at a crusade without providing any evidence?

dalaman:
Being on her natual form means notthing. Magicians perfom better fit and they do it very naturally and effortlessly. You won't know they use tricks until threy tell you. Many people find it haed to believe that magicians use tricks even after they opwnly tell them that they used trixls on them. They still prefer to believe that the magicians have super natural abilities.Watch Daren Browns videos on YouTube. Even after explaining to people that he uses tricks a lot of them still refuse to accept. They feel he has some supernatural abilities.

You guys are always not serious with your claims and assertions. A girl is doing something physical and you are telling me that you have this elusive spiritual explanation that I will not accept. You are clearly running away from providing answers to my questions. Use the spiritual and explain to me how she was able to do whatever she did you are demanding that Seun explains the trick she used while insisting she must be using some.spiritual element. I agree she is using a spiritual element. Explain how the spiritual element works in this case. I am.waiting.

There are two kinds of mesmerism:
Real Magic and Magic tricks.

Even the so called magic tricks takes years to perfect...and many times, they have to invent contraptions to implement the seemingly impossible. This girl is just a CHILD.

The girl is doing that which breaks physical laws yet instead of objectively analysing the whole picture you are using FAITH to explain it away

shadeyinka:
The spiritual is logical. The spiritual gave birth to the physical. If your comprehension is limited by the physical, then you cannot understand the spiritual. From Physics and the theory of the origin of the universe, you will arrive at only one conclusion. ..and the conclusion is that,
1. a non material rhelm exists as a superset of the universe.
2. An intelligence/ consciousness created the universe. Theists call Hi God/ gods.

1. Scientist have not established that the universe had a begining or not. They also have not established that the universe came from any non material source. There are different theories and speculation. No one knows for sure and no definate theory has been established. Some postulate that the universe is eternal while others postulate a universe with a begining.

2. How did you jump from a universe having a creator/ creators to Jesus dying for the sins of all Mankind? Why not accept the muslim or Hindu theology and stories? The universe could have many creators but it has nothing to do with the Christian, Jewish or Muslims convoluted stores for example . These stories are man made creations.

Seun:
The burden of proof is on those claiming super powers, but in this case we can clearly see that there is a gap in the blindfold that she can see through.

Do you seriously believe that there is a gap in the blindfold? Then freeze the video at the clearest point and show us the gap by marking a ring round the gap.

It would have made sense if you had argued that the cloth had some micro camera in it which relay information to the girl....but a gap!!! You are not serious

Seun:
Actually, many children have won Oscar awards for acting, so it should be easy to believe that this sweet little girl is just a good actress and a competent one trick magician.

She must have been well trained...LOL.
Must Atheist deny reality just to defend a position?

I for instant do not subscribe to the girl opening her third eye because it connects her with demons yet, I acknowledge the fact that it doesn't look like a trick.

shadeyinka:
There are two kinds of mesmerism:
Real Magic and Magic tricks.

Even the so called magic tricks takes years to perfect...and many times, they have to invent contraptions to implement the seemingly impossible. This girl is just a CHILD.

The girl is doing that which breaks physical laws yet instead of objectively analysing the whole picture you are using FAITH to explain it away

So what if the girl is just a child? Children have been used to decieve many people and atbe still being used to decieve many . Seun recently posted the video documentary of a former child preacher call Majoe. Please watch his documentary on Youtube. His parent concucted a story of how the boy at age 3 or so had an encounter with Jesus, they said Jesus appeared to him as a baby and gave him abilities to preach(alll made up lies). They boy relates the story with such conviction and goes about preaching because his parents thought him how to preach at a very early age. They told him what to say and hiw to act when he is preaching at home and he practiced always. Peoplw thought he was God sent because of the way he preached as a child. They didn't know his parents spent hours daily coaching him. Even as an atheist he was busy performing miracles in crusades . He got tired of the sham made a documentary out of it to expose all the lies and left christianity. The girl being a child means nothing at all.

dalaman:
Christians tell lies to promote their God ALL of the time. Pastors of Mega Churches have been caught telling lies to promote christianity so what are you saying? Telling lies to promote God is what christians do all the time. After all pastor Adeboye lied that he traveled for over 200km on an empty tank because God drove the car from him. Do you believe that he actually traveled for over 200km on an empty tank alone in the car?

If I told you that I ate yam this morning, are you being forced to believe it? Must I provide x-ray pictures? ...and knowing Atheists, even when you provide them with their x-ray pix, the will say that the x-ray pix are black &white and not coloured