Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa - Politics (3) - Nairaland
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| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by Jokerman(m): 4:56pm On Sep 05, 2016 |
btoks: Lolsss... I am the follower of the Lord Jesus Christ and I follow after his words ( the Bible ).... Where did Jesus give the authority to the Catholic Church...? Abi na Catholic be Peter (Literally speaking)?? Jesus referred to every believer of His, ok... not specifically d Catholic church...moreover was the Catholic church the first at Antioch, Greece? ? |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by cyrilamx(m): 4:57pm On Sep 05, 2016 |
donnie:sometimes the way many people misconceived the Catholic Church leading to all manner of unsubstantiated criticism mystifies me. First the issue of declaring one a saint in Catholic Church pre dates the Bible. In the early Church it was usually by popular acclamation by citizens of the city where the candidate for sainthood lived his life. It was usually in recognition of the heroic deeds relating to sanctity of the deceased Catholic, such person will then be a model of emulation. That is while St. Francis the Sales says, "a saint is one who lives the Gospel." the life of saints points to the sermon of the Mount which is the summary of the Gospel and to the general judgement of Matt. 25:31-46. Yes the Bible said we all saints but we all know that in reality our live styles prove otherwise.( just like a class teacher wanting to encourage his students will say everyone is brilliant, but we all know real examination devoid of cheating does separate the brilliant students from dull ones). It is only those who have endured the trials of life yet persevere in their Christian faith and living the sermon if the mount and after death following laid down procedure are recognised to be in heaven and worthy of emulation. The church only present them as model of christianity...the Catholic Church don't make anyone a saint but recognise that person after death is in heaven and just as you ask your Pastors to pray or intercede for you which does not impede the mediatorship of Christ 1.Tim.2:5, same way Catholics ask the saints in heaven who as friends of God to pray or intercede for them. If you can run to your Pastors who is human and can still sin for prayers how much more we ask friends of God in heaven who cannot sin anymore to pray for us. Hence we say St. Theresa of Calcutta, pray for us. That what the Church calls the communion of saints Lest I forget u guys have no defined theology just dishing out biblical quotation without adhering to St. Peter's warning regarding personal interpretation of Pauline writings: 2.Pet.3:15-16. 2 Likes |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by nortcentrallord(m): 6:03pm On Sep 05, 2016 |
HungerBAD: Asking for intercession from a ST to God is same as going to ask for prayers from your pastor or attending a service and following your pastor as he leads the prayers and you pray along. A Pastor or priest is a revered man of God but a SAINT is a spirit who has finished his or her race on earth and believed to be seated in God's Kingdom above proven through visible signs on earth. Now, between a revered mortal on earth with all the distractions and sins around him or her and a pure and sinless being in the presence of God in heaven, who's prayer is closer to God?. Don't forget even your pastors root is from the Catholic church. "GET BACK TO YOUR ROOTS" |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by nortcentrallord(m): 6:03pm On Sep 05, 2016 |
HungerBAD: Asking for intercession from a ST to God is same as going to ask for prayers from your pastor or attending a service and following your pastor as he leads the prayers and you pray along. A Pastor or priest is a revered man of God but a SAINT is a spirit who has finished his or her race on earth and believed to be seated in God's Kingdom above proven through visible signs on earth. Now, between a revered mortal on earth with all the distractions and sins around him or her and a pure and sinless being in the presence of God in heaven, who's prayer is closer to God?. Don't forget even your pastors root is from the Catholic church. "GET BACK TO YOUR ROOT" 2 Likes |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by dimieprincess(f): 6:08pm On Sep 05, 2016 |
Scatterscatter:Your ignorance Is second to none, please tell me where and how are Catholics praying to the father or God via a man. The Catholic prayer of "pray for us" is a request to intercede on our behalf to the son. By implication of the doctrine of trinity, Jesus and the father is one. 1 Like |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by endove(f): 7:31pm On Sep 05, 2016 |
HungerBAD:#Teamcatholic#proudlycatholic Mother Theresa--Pray for us 1 Like |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by Pidggin(f): 8:16pm On Sep 05, 2016 |
Jokerman: Yes, you use our Bible if you are a Christian |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by Jokerman(m): 8:30pm On Sep 05, 2016 |
Pidggin: Lolss.... well I don't like arguing with my fellow Christians. .. lets just leave it at that.... |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by Pidggin(f): 8:34pm On Sep 05, 2016 |
Jokerman: I also don't like arguing but a simple Google search will reveal this truth to you. When the bible was compiled no pentecostal church GO was there. Goodnight brethren |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by donnie(m): 8:46pm On Sep 05, 2016 |
cyrilamx: My dear, dont even start cos i know you are not ready to engage me in such discussions based on scripture. Do your homework first, and that should include knowing your oponent. Then come for an argument if you are still willing. PS. ALL ARGUMENTS SCHOULD BE BASED 100% ON SCRIPTURE. Thank you |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by donnie(m): 9:15pm On Sep 05, 2016 |
amanze15: My dear she is not the only one who lived or is living that way... Romans 11:2-4 ... Do you remember what the Scriptures say about this? Elijah the prophet was complaining to God about the Jews, telling God how they had killed the prophets and torn down God’s altars; Elijah claimed that he was the only one left in all the land who still loved God, and now they were trying to kill him too.4 And do you remember how God replied? God said, “No, you are not the only one left. I have seven thousand others besides you who still love me and have not bowed down to idols!”[a] Do not be deceived, as it was then, so it is today. Besides no amount of good works can qualify you for the righteousness of God. Isaiah 64:6 But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away. What qualifies you before God is HIS righteousness, not yours. Do not be deceived. Philippians 3:9 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by DorisK(f): 9:35pm On Sep 05, 2016 |
HungerBAD: We don't pray THROUGH her or anybody. We ask that she and other saints mediate for us to God since they are already with him in heaven. So a Catholic prayer can go thus, "St Theresa, we humbly beseech thee to pray for us to God to grant us health, success & favour through Christ our Lord. Amen"....... I sincerely hope you understand 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by DorisK(f): 9:37pm On Sep 05, 2016 |
emmanwandud: I quote u. That is just your opinion. You aren't a Catholic, so I don't expect you to get it nor accept it......... Now, the repercussion? |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by donnie(m): 10:26pm On Sep 05, 2016 |
DorisK: That may appeal to your natural senses but you're not makng spiritual sense. Kindly show an example of the apostles praying such prayer. |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by Scatterscatter(m): 11:13pm On Sep 05, 2016 |
dimieprincess: I'm sorry as I Jst realised your case is even worse off!!! Kindly show me a part in the Bible that says we should pray through a dead man or dead people to Jesus;are you indirectly worshiping the dead.? Cos the so called Saints that you pray through are all dead only to resurrect on the last day. Why should someone even intercede on your behalf; don't you know Jesus Christ is our only advocate and intercessor. My dear, you now have a direct link to the Father through his son Jesus Christ our Lord and saviour don't let any person tell you otherwise! BTW kindly tell me how it is in man's capacity to verify someone as a saint? Are you God  |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by Scatterscatter(m): 11:38pm On Sep 05, 2016 |
krysTein: It's not a must you reply if what I wrote is beyond your comprehension. No one will blame you for being mentally retard at least you can be treated. |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by raphieMontella: 6:52am On Sep 06, 2016 |
amanze15:ur point ? |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by raphieMontella: 6:59am On Sep 06, 2016 |
amanze15:its a well planned religious org. Brother |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by raphieMontella: 7:05am On Sep 06, 2016 |
Scatterscatter:weyrey? What happened to after death comes judgement? Dead saints?..in other words jesus is also a dead jew... I hope u know jesus told his apostles that they would be judges with him in heaven...mere mortals Why should someone intercedede? Why should u pray for yyour family ni? Them no get mouth? Why? |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by raphieMontella: 7:14am On Sep 06, 2016 |
donnie:when jesus said he will judge us according to his works was he mad? Or when he told the rich man to sell his possessions,,help the poor and then he can have a seat in heaven?? Read the bible catholics gave u this sola fide doctrine sef...lol have u read 1james? |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by raphieMontella: 7:48am On Sep 06, 2016 |
Jokerman:what are the words of jesus? How many gospels were they before those b.astard devilish catholics chose four for you guyz? who is the first bishop of the catholic church? lol...what u saying? Na antioch christianity first start? Jewish christians? Go research man! |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by raphieMontella: 7:49am On Sep 06, 2016 |
donnie:how do u indentify scripture? And who gave u those scriptures? |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by cyrilamx(m): 7:50am On Sep 06, 2016 |
donnie:that is where you are wrong...the idea of sola scriptura(sctipture alone) promoted by the first protester- Luther doesn't even has scriptural backing...and do u know that the church existed 300 years without the Bible, so where did the early Christians based their authority? And the same church you and your likes are quick to bash, convened the councils saddled with the tasks of selecting/determining from so many books in existence in the early church, which were inspired, which to be part of the books called the Bible. In canonising the Bible, dear, history so much heavily lean to the Catholic side. The councils at Hippo 393 and Carthage 397 under the chairmanship of the greatest African theologian, St. Augustine. And then after successfully piecing thses books together they needed authority to ratify it for the church use...whose authority...a Pope? Yes it was Pope Damasus 1 (Pope from 366-84), he encouraged the canonicity of Bible and approved the first ever Bible, the Latin Vulgate. Mind you the now approved Bible has no chapter nor verses well into the time of Stephen Langton; the Holy Cardinal Archbishop of Canterbury towards the later part of the 13th century. It was he who divided these 72 books into chapters. Google Stephen Langton to educate yourself more. Bear in mind that Christ never wrote anything nor asked his disciples to write anything on his behalf..the only time an apostle was instructed to write down visions, was in book of the apocalypse or Revelation. And when the books of the Bible was been collated, Revelation was set aside initially because of its doubtful authorship and so much imageries and supposed interpolations. However the Pope asked St. Jerome to include and translate Revelation from Greek into Latin. Christ only founded a church upon Peter, the rock. Matt. 16:13-20 and saddled the church to convert/teach all nations. Matt 28:18-20 . It was out of necessity the disciple or apostles decided to write about the life of Christ to address certain questions. That why the first attempt by the Apostles to address the Faith in response to believers' question produced 1 Thessalonia writing about 51 AD before any of the gospel. And in 2.Thes., St. Paul told the believers that the Faith was handed to them in two ways and must be guarded firmly: By words of mouth( Tradition) and letters( writings which later firm the new Testament) 2.Thes. 2:15; 3:6. Again the same apostle told us that the Bible isn't where authority of Christian lies rather in the church. 1.Tim3:15. He said the Church and not the Bible is the pillar and foundation of the Truth. Need I say more? That this same truth the Catholic Church wield from the time of Christ's ascension in determining the different aspects of church life? Did Christ tell us how to congregate on worship, did he say choir should be formed? Did he approve Sunday as day specifically devoted to worship? Did he approve of a Bible? If you so vocal you can't discuss anything outside the Bible, then begin to lecture me what constitute the early Christian way of life, mode of worship 300 years before the Bible was canonised...are you telling me that all the splinter groups in protestantism/pentecostalism were directed to do so from the Bible? Going against the prayer of Christ for unity in Jn. 17? And these various groups teach not only unorthodox messages but very contradictory...yet they all supposedly base their authority from the Bible. For these ptotesters/splinter group, St. John has a very strong worded message. 1.Jn. 2:18-20. Give me a break for 2 millennia tge church has taught the Faith, even in darkest period of human society the Catholic church was the shining light. Go and read the contribution of the Catholic Church to Western civilization. If the Catholic Church is not the church founded by Christ as you pentecostals are wont to argue, then where is that church today? Redeem? Mfm? Winners? CAC? Because that church must be visible and must trace it history to the Apostles and beside it must be able to teach with authority-making bold claims that only Christ her bridegroom can make. It must be able to bind and loose ( not necessary demons but doctrinal definition) and must tell by the authority of the Holy Spirit that somebody like Mother Theresa having led a heroic/saintly Christian life is in heaven and Heaven will concur. There Catholic Church is a sui generis. She has taught humanity, bled from within and without in taking the gospel to where angels dread to go for two millennia. The problem with pentecostals is they don't have a well grounded theology and authority. It is a group which anyone can wake up, read a portion of the Bible and start a congregation. Mind you hundreds of your kinds can't stand me...it is my field. I must open your eyes to the truth and how gullible you have been. I rest my pen...waiting for your next outburst...have a blissful day! Peace and Goodness! 3 Likes |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by Scatterscatter(m): 7:51am On Sep 06, 2016 |
raphieMontella: After death comes judgement means there is no repentance in the grave. The moment you die, your fate is sealed. And mind you, "the dead in Christ will rise of the last day when Jesus appears" My Jesus isn't a dead jew as he died and resurrected on the third day before ascending to heaven in a new glorified body,now seated at the right hand of the Father. The kinda intercession I'm referring to is in heaven. Your relatives and friends can intercede nd you do likewise regarded both parties are alive and your prayer must be channelled to the Father through Jesus only. You can't pray for or to the dead. The only name that has been given authority to bind and loose is the name of Jesus Christ no other name can. Not the name of Paul, Peter, Mary or even Abraham. Jesus is the only way to the Father! And the only way to Jesus is the confession of your mouth,!. You don't need any mother theresa to pray for you as she is no longer among the living. |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by DorisK(f): 8:18am On Sep 06, 2016 |
donnie: It won't make sense to you cos you are not a Catholic. Everything is not contained in the bible. And when the bible was recorded, there weren't any saints yet. Saints started with the apostles. You can believe it or leave it |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by amanze15(m): 8:37am On Sep 06, 2016 |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by btoks: 8:40am On Sep 06, 2016 |
Jokerman:Jesus gave authority to the church he established, we see this in Matthew. This church was later in the first century referred to as the Catholic Church in order to separate it from the heretical groups forminf at the time. (Please read early church fathers letters - Ignatius to symaneans, Irenaeus against heresis etc http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0109.htm It's an historical fact that Peter died in Rome and passed the Bishopic of Rome on via Apostolic succesion. the church in Antioch was part of the unversal( Catholic )Church . Check Acts 15 to read how disputes where settled via church council (this carries on today) |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by amanze15(m): 8:43am On Sep 06, 2016 |
donnie:really, i don't know what you are told in church but for every book and verse in the bible has 1001 interpretations Colossians 3:23 Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. Mother Teresa.... what have you do for you brother and sister today?! |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by dimieprincess(f): 8:45am On Sep 06, 2016 |
Scatterscatter: That is your belief and not that of the Catholic. The belief of the Catholic is that, those saints are seated in Heaven with God. We never serve any body, telling those whom we perceived as people with Jesus to ask favour for us because we are sinners is never a crime. Let me give you the reason we pray through them, the bible says the prayer of a sinner is an abomination and that is why we r asking them to intercede on our behalf. They are seen as saints and not as sinful as we are. |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by cyrilamx(m): 9:13am On Sep 06, 2016 |
Scatterscatter:you pentecostals children of the first protesters should really be schooled in theology and sacred scripture. You just quote scriptural passage out of context and digest it without having critical analysis of the scripture relating to the event that happened necessitating the making of the statement. Why quoting well that no repentance in the grave, you erred trying to force it on us that Catholics believe there is repentance in the grave. Guy what happens to the dual nature of human beings? Soul and body? Does the soul die with the body? Or in state of hibernation? Awaiting the rejoining with body on resurrection day before it can face a particular judgement? Exegesis or critical look at the scripture in light of biblical scholarship will tell you there are two judgements. The general judgement and particular judgment. Reading St. Matt. Gospel chapter 25 from verse 31 to 46, you will find Christ' s discussion of how the final judgement will be. This what biblical scholars at least in Catholic circles call the last social judgement. Here u find the accusation and acquittal is based on works and not any Faith. It is based on how one respond to grace of Christ in dealing with his neighbours. During this judgement, a reading of patristic writings will tell you it happens after the resurrection if the body has taken place...soul and body fused again, but then it now immortal. Another account of judgement mention by author of Hebrew seems to suggests a particular judgement which happens immeduately after death where the body rot away and the soul which is the real person faces instant judgement. Heb. 9:27. And this judgement has consequences. Either hell for those who obstinately rejected Christ or heaven for his dear friends. Then those who followed him but still has the punishment of Sins to pay because every sin has a penalty and must be expected either in this world or next. St. John says there are sin which are Deadly n not deadly (1.Jn. 5:15-17). Now every sin displeases God but not every sin carries equal weight of punishment, God is a just God as Jesus told pilate those who handed me over to you are guilty of greater sin. Jn. 19:11. So back to my discussion of sin which though displeased God but not Deadly to warrant eternal condemnation and admittance into heaven and if a Christian dies in such sin, the Protestants / pentecostals theology had no answer to this. According to Apostolic tradition this soul after death goes for purification...to atone before entering heaven. Get it he didn't repent in purgatory rather he is completing his cleansing or atonement cis Revelation tells us nothing defies sees God. Rev. 21:27. Regarding those who have died, Christ pointed to us they are not dead but alive in God...because they have souls which is immortal. Only the body dies and the soul lives on depending on how it lived on earth. Mark 12:25ff. So the question is mother Theresa died but her soul is living. The other question is nobody can intercede for us is wrong and even unscriptural. In life most of u ask your Pastors to prayer for you without knowing he is interceding on ur behalf. Does that negate the one mediatorship of Christ? If the reply is no then asking our blessed Mother and the saints to pray for us neither negates Christ role. Infact, being in abode of God they have best opportunity to do so. That what we believe as communion of saints. The exit of Christians from these world is not the end rather the beginning of stronger bond. |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by saintmark88(m): 10:29am On Sep 06, 2016 |
HungerBAD: |
| Re: Peter Obi Visits Vatican For The Canonization Of Mother Teresa by raphieMontella: 10:33am On Sep 06, 2016 |
Scatterscatter:u stilll dont get it..your fate is sealed..either heaven or hell.. So how can they pray through someone in hell and the miracle happens? Not once but twice? Thats the basis..thats the significance of the miracle. hian In mark 9:4...moses was dead..how come he talked to jesus if he wasnt conscious What about psalm73:24?? Luke 16:22--abraham have mercy on me... In luke 23:43- was jesus mad when he said:today you shall be with me in paradise ?Acts 7:59... he is a dead jew how do u define alive? Are they dead?? I thought the soul never dies? Is the flesh now more important than the spirit? Be deceiveing yourself what are u saying oga? Stop contradicting yourself and ur precious bible matthew 16:13 sure..they didnt say otherwise.. Stop lying! so the angels are dead...jesus is dead...okay...no soul..no hell..no heaven...u die u die...m happy you are an atheist.. Better stop praying for your family..it is a sin... Wait wait wait.. When your grandparent dies...where do u bid him/her to? Rest in the bossom of the lord...why U proclaim at burials and tributes that ur grandparent is in jesus's arms...why Stop those burials boy! 1 Like |
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