Atheists a group of people that BELIEVES that God doesn't exist and here are Christians who BELIEVE in God. I have often wondered which is more easy to believe in. A God up there who has your best interest at heart and who sometimes just sit quietly while you struggle through some difficult stuff OR
To believe you are self sufficient and you owe nobody nothing to be either good or bad. I have followed most trends on nairaland. I admire the steadfast devotion of some Atheists and there indebt knowledge and I just can't fail to draw a similarity that both religion are based in BELIEVE. If u believe the big bang happened billions of years ago while is it hard for you to accept another persons believe that God is just and loving.
if his believes makes him a better person what right do you have to take that away from him!
the world without Atheists I Dont know how it will be but am greatful to them because for each of there criticism about Christianity they have made me study more about Christianity and each time I feel blessed being a Christian. so thank you Atheists for making me a better Christain

Gpdwise:
Atheists a group of people that BELIEVES that God doesn't exist and here are Christians who BELIEVE in God. I have often wondered which is more easy to believe in. A God up there who has your best interest at heart and who sometimes just sit quietly while you struggle through some difficult stuff OR
To believe you are self sufficient and you owe nobody nothing to be either good or bad. I have followed most trends on nairaland. I admire the steadfast devotion of some Atheists and there indebt knowledge and I just can't fail to draw a similarity that both religion are based in BELIEVE. If u believe the big bang happened billions of years ago while is it hard for you to accept another persons believe that God is just and loving.
if his believes makes him a better person what right do you have to take that away from him!
the world without Atheists I Dont know how it be but am greatful to them because for each of there criticism about Christianity they have made me study more about Christianity and each time I feel blessed being a Christian. so thank you Atheists for making me a better Christain

That's the difference the athiest works with evidence send proof not what another person believes or disbelieve, the Big Bang theory has been scientifically proven and it hasn't been falsified at least not yet

so you see the atheist didn't believe in the big bang because it is a form of myth,but because it is based on careful scientific and inductive studies

Not because one man claims without logical prove that it is true

butterfly88:
That's the difference the athiest works with evidence send proof not what another person believes or disbelieve, the Big Bang theory has been scientifically proven and it hasn't been falsified at least not yet

so you see the atheist didn't believe in the big bang because it is a form of myth,but because it is based on careful scientific and inductive studies

Not because one man claims without logical prove that it is true

and u forgot abt what caused the big bang!!! we all are product of our believe

Gpdwise:

and u forgot abt what caused the big bang!!! we all are product of our believe

"what" caused the big bang? what caused the cause of the big bang..and the cause of the cause?

and finally what are your proves?

Atheism is not a religion

butterfly88:
"what" caused the big bang? what caused the cause of the big bang..and the cause of the cause?

and finally what are your proves?

u should tell me!!! cos the last time I checked it all started with a big bang!! there must be an action before a reaction isnt that science or has that law changed. something has to cause the bang!!!

EyeofHorus:
Atheism is not a religion

if its not a religion its now what!!! oh I forgot its NOTHING

Gpdwise:

u should tell me!!! cos the last time I checked it all started with a big bang!! there must be an action before a reaction isnt that science or has that law changed. something has to cause the bang!!!

your question said "what" the answer is the singularity an infinitely hot,infinitely dense and infinitely small(unstable) entity

I believe in God but religion is an ish for me! What do you say to that OP?

Gpdwise:

u should tell me!!! cos the last time I checked it all started with a big bang!! there must be an action before a reaction isnt that science or has that law changed. something has to cause the bang!!!

I hear this argument alot, and i cant just help but to think that theres alot of fallacies that goes off when that is mentioned.

First, great post, i am happy atheists makes you think about your believes, and to correct the notion, many atheists i know accept everyone for who they are and hardly discriminate, although there are some few exceptions, but belief is a personal thing, you can believe what you want to, i personally am against superstition, but believes are harmless. So great for you.

Secondly, you use the law of physics to deduce the creation of the law of physics and that in it self is an error. We know that the laws of physics were created at the big bang and many theists accepts this, but still ask what caused it, they use the famous "to every effect, there must be a cause" as their premise.

I beg to differ, if the laws of physics(including the cause and effect law) was created at the big bang, then its not necessarily at all for the big bang to have a cause because it doesn't follow the law of physics.

Its simple logic...

donnffd:


I hear this argument alot, and i cant just help but to think that theres alot of fallacies that goes off when that is mentioned.

First, great post, i am happy atheists makes you think about your believes, and to correct the notion, many atheists i know accept everyone for who they are and hardly discriminate, although there are some few exceptions, but belief is a personal thing, you can believe what you want to, i personally am against superstition, but believes are harmless. So great for you.

Secondly, you use the law of physics to deduce the creation of the law of physics and that in it self is an error. We know that the laws of physics were created at the big bang and many theists accepts this, but still ask what caused it, they use the famous "to every effect, there must be a cause" as their premise.

I beg to differ, if the laws of physics(including the cause and effect law) was created at the big bang, then its not necessarily at all for the big bang to have a cause because it doesn't follow the law of physics.

Its simple logic...

While I agree with most of what you wrote, there's one part that I have to say is incorrect. Belief is not harmless as you say, it can be very dangerous, the belief that there is a euphoric after life filled with Virgins is what gives a suicide bomber courage to carry out his self destruction, in total disregard to the self preservation present in all organic beings, a belief that is so strong it completely rewires what thousands of years of evolution has imbedded in man, that is amazing, that is belief. Similarly belief is what caused crusades that has annihilated thousands in the name of religion, they believed they were fighting a holy war for God. A being powerful enough to create the entire universe, but apparently is unable to wage and win his own battles.
So belief is not harmless, it can rather be very deadly.

Gpdwise:

if its not a religion its now what!!! oh I forgot its NOTHING

Yes it is nothing, it is not an organization, a philosophical system or belief system - it is just a label given to people who lack belief in God(s).

Let me explain -

Theism - the belief that there are God(s) : theism is not a religion, neither is it a philosophical system or organization, its just a label for people who have a belief in God(s).
But then religions can be from the basis of theism, like Islam, christianity, Hellinism - they are theistic religions but in general theism is not a religion.

Atheism - Non-belief in God(s): its neither a religion, philosophical system or organization, it's just a label for people who have no belief in God(s).
A religion can be operated on the position of atheism - like Jainism, Taoism etc.

Theism, Atheism are not religions - simply positions of belief and unbelief.. Let me hope this clarifies you

donnffd:


I hear this argument alot, and i cant just help but to think that theres alot of fallacies that goes off when that is mentioned.

First, great post, i am happy atheists makes you think about your believes, and to correct the notion, many atheists i know accept everyone for who they are and hardly discriminate, although there are some few exceptions, but belief is a personal thing, you can believe what you want to, i personally am against superstition, but believes are harmless. So great for you.

Secondly, you use the law of physics to deduce the creation of the law of physics and that in it self is an error. We know that the laws of physics were created at the big bang and many theists accepts this, but still ask what caused it, they use the famous "to every effect, there must be a cause" as their premise.

I beg to differ, if the laws of physics(including the cause and effect law) was created at the big bang, then its not necessarily at all for the big bang to have a cause because it doesn't follow the law of physics.

Its simple logic...

you can't give what you Dont ve. my dad can't give birth to a white boy because both of my parent come from a linage of dark skin. if the big bang didn't follow normal law of physics then it couldn't ve given birth to physics

Atheists keep Believers running.

Gpdwise:

you can't give what you Dont ve. my dad can't give birth to a white boy because both of my parent come from a linage of dark skin. if the big bang didn't follow normal law of physics then it couldn't ve given birth to physics

Comparing the beginning of the universe to simple human reproduction is the height of stupidity.

johnydon22:
Yes it is nothing, it is not an organization, a philosophical system or belief system - it is just a label given to people who lack belief in God(s).

Let me explain -

Theism - the belief that there are God(s) : theism is not a religion, neither is it a philosophical system or organization, its just a label for people who have a belief in God(s).
But then religions can be from the basis of theism, like Islam, christianity, Hellinism - they are theistic religions but in general theism is not a religion.

Atheism - Non-belief in God(s): its neither a religion, philosophical system or organization, it's just a label for people who have no belief in God(s).
A religion can be operated on the position of atheism - like Jainism, Taoism etc.

Theism, Atheism are not religions - simply positions of belief and unbelief.. Let me hope this clarifies you

imagine I tell u I follow nothing!!
and you have something that gives you hope and a feeling of connecting to something that can change ur situation in a moment, something that gives you hope , that gives your life a sense of direction and I should leave it all for NOTHING

Lennycool:

Comparing the beginning of the universe to simple human reproduction is the height of stupidity.

what should I now compare it to!!:
or are you trying to tell me the beginning has no scientific explanation

Gpdwise:

imagine I tell u I follow nothing!!
and you have something that gives you hope and a feeling of connecting to something that can change ur situation in a moment, something that gives you hope , that gives your life a sense of direction and I should leave it all for NOTHING

It is the bleakest form of existence, the saddest form of life i know for people to say that without a particular thing or someone they have no direction, purpose or meaning to their life - they have in admiting that make out their life to be pitiably dependent to derive meaning.

You do not need anything to give you direction, or hope ora sense of connection - these are all around you, you are the driver of your being, of your purpose and meaning - Don't demean yourself by roping them around and elusive abstract vague idea, that makes your life likewise vague.

johnydon22:


It is the bleakest form of existence, the saddest form of life i know for people to say that without a particular thing or someone they have no direction, purpose or meaning to their life - they have in admiting that make out their life to be pitiably dependent to derive meaning.

You do not need anything to give you direction, or hope ora sense of connection - these are all around you, you are the driver of your being, of your purpose and meaning - Don't demean yourself by roping them around and elusive abstract vague idea, that makes your life likewise vague.

that isn't what religion is abt!! its abt making u the best u can be and not make u as pathetic as ur quote suggests

Gpdwise:

that isn't what religion is abt!! its abt making u the best u can be and not make u as pathetic as ur quote suggests

You can be the best you can be without religion - human behaviour transcends religious influence.

Nigeria is a very religious country why is it that your statement does not hold true for this scenario?

johnydon22:


You can be the best you can be without religion - human behaviour transcends religious influence.

Nigeria is a very religious country why is it that your statement does not hold true for this scenario?

u can't blame religion for our problem, religion isn't the EFCC or Nigeria police
religion isn't our judicial system.
religion isn't even our educational system or our society. while put the blame on something most people visit weekly or at most twice a week and claim they keep the law only with their lips. habbah allocate ur blame to right quarters na

donnffd:


I hear this argument alot, and i cant just help but to think that theres alot of fallacies that goes off when that is mentioned.

First, great post, i am happy atheists makes you think about your believes, and to correct the notion, many atheists i know accept everyone for who they are and hardly discriminate, although there are some few exceptions, but belief is a personal thing, you can believe what you want to, i personally am against superstition, but believes are harmless. So great for you.

Secondly, you use the law of physics to deduce the creation of the law of physics and that in it self is an error. We know that the laws of physics were created at the big bang and many theists accepts this, but still ask what caused it, they use the famous "to every effect, there must be a cause" as their premise.

I beg to differ, if the laws of physics(including the cause and effect law) was created at the big bang, then its not necessarily at all for the big bang to have a cause because it doesn't follow the law of physics.

Its simple logic...

Fred Hoyle is the atheist astronomer who coined the term “Big Bang.” He once confessed that his disbelief was “greatly shaken” by the undisputed science, writing that“a common-sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a super-intellect has monkeyed with the physics, as well as with chemistry and biology.”

The fanatical atheists are like slaves who arestill feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who – in their grudge against traditional religion as the ‘opium of the masses’ – cannot hear the music of the spheres.”“I’m not an atheist,”added Einstein.“Theproblem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have writtenthose books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn’t know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws.”

Illustrious NASA scientist (and agnostic) Dr. Robert Jastrow (1925-2008) put it this way:“For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountain of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have beensitting there for centuries.”

Gpdwise:

u can't blame religion for our problem, religion isn't the EFCC or Nigeria police
religion isn't our judicial system.
religion isn't even our educational system or our society. while put the blame on something most people visit weekly or at most twice a week and claim they keep the law only with their lips. habbah allocate ur blame to right quarters na

I am not blaming religion, you are the one that said religion makes us the best we can be then i pointed to Nigeria that is almost 96% religious yet is moraly bankrupt at every level

Gpdwise:


Fred Hoyle is the atheist astronomer who coined the term “Big Bang.” He once confessed that his disbelief was “greatly shaken” by the undisputed science, writing that“a common-sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a super-intellect has monkeyed with the physics, as well as with chemistry and biology.”

The fanatical atheists are like slaves who arestill feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who – in their grudge against traditional religion as the ‘opium of the masses’ – cannot hear the music of the spheres.”“I’m not an atheist,”added Einstein.“Theproblem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have writtenthose books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn’t know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws.”

Illustrious NASA scientist (and agnostic) Dr. Robert Jastrow (1925-2008) put it this way:“For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountain of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have beensitting there for centuries.”

Know the difference between a Creator and a God. Science cannot simply do away with the possibility of a creator since there are still so much we don't understand about the the universe, but the possibility of a Human God being the author of all we see today is laudable. And science rejects this notion. Based on all the facts and evidences available and tested there is no human God that exist or has ever existed. So while there is the possibility of a creator there is almost non for a God. Some might ask whats the difference, but it is this, a creator doesn't have to be a being, in can simply be a cosmic force, that provided the building blocks for the universe today, it does not demand recognition or reverence, it simply is what it is, a force of nature. There is no way to confirm this theory. But a God is a deity that demands human worship, that looks after and protect humans, that plays a large role in the affairs of humans. But this God(deity) can simply be disproven.
Why would a God create the entire universe, in all it's incomprehensibly large glory, just to focus on a small portion of it. To care about the prayer and life of humans, that he helps us pass exams, get jobs, win battles, that he cares what we thinks of him. Does this seem reasonable to the rational mind?

Lennycool:

Know the difference between a Creator and a God. Science cannot simply do away with the possibility of a creator since there are still so much we don't understand about the the universe, but the possibility of a Human God being the author of all we see today is laudable. And science rejects this notion. Based on all the facts and evidences available and tested there is no human God that exist or has ever existed. So while there is the possibility of a creator there is almost non for a God. Some might ask whats the difference, but it is this, a creator doesn't have to be a being, in can simply be a cosmic force, that provided the building blocks for the universe today, it does not demand recognition or reverence, it simply is what it is, a force of nature. There is no way to confirm this theory. But a God is a deity that demands human worship, that looks after and protect humans, that plays a large role in the affairs of humans. But this God(deity) can simply be disproven.
Why would a God create the entire universe, in all it's incomprehensibly large glory, just to focus on a small portion of it. To care about the prayer and life of humans, that he helps us pass exams, get jobs, win battles, that he cares what we thinks of him. Does this seem reasonable to the rational mind?

I like the fact that you agreed that there is a creator even if you called your creator cosmic force or force of nature they both have one thing in common FORCE.
force is defined as the physical strength possessed by a living being.. So who is the being that possess such power to cause the big bang

Gpdwise:

I like the fact that you agreed that there is a creator even if you called your creator cosmic force or force of nature they both have one thing in common FORCE.
force is defined as the physical strength possessed by a living being.. So who is the being that possess such power to cause the big bang

So the cosmic force part was the only thing you drew from my post, lol. Well any way force is defined as Strength or energy of body or mind; active power; vigour; might; capacity of exercising an influence or producing an effect.
It doesn't only reside in biological beings, gravitational pull is a force, so is magnetism. They both exist in non biological entities. So force can be brought about by a non living being. Also I don't claim to know the origin of this force. Because we simply don't know enough to tell. Atleast we accept the gaps in our knowledge, unlike theist who claim it is their God without any firm supporting evidence.

Lennycool:

While I agree with most of what you wrote, there's one part that I have to say is incorrect. Belief is not harmless as you say, it can be very dangerous, the belief that there is a euphoric after life filled with Virgins is what gives a suicide bomber courage to carry out his self destruction, in total disregard to the self preservation present in all organic beings, a belief that is so strong it completely rewires what thousands of years of evolution has imbedded in man, that is amazing, that is belief. Similarly belief is what caused crusades that has annihilated thousands in the name of religion, they believed they were fighting a holy war for God. A being powerful enough to create the entire universe, but apparently is unable to wage and win his own battles.
So belief is not harmless, it can rather be very deadly.

I agree with what you said, i think my use of the terms were confusing.

What you described here is what i termed superstition, that is actions carried out rooted in unverified beliefs.

What i meant by "beliefs are not harmless" are just ideas that has no relation to reality, like belief in santa clause, God, heaven, afterlife, bigfoot, spirits e.t.c

When one start acting out in a way due to those beliefs, then it becomes superstition and is very very dangerous.

But i agree with you all the way.

Gpdwise:


Fred Hoyle is the atheist astronomer who coined the term “Big Bang.” He once confessed that his disbelief was “greatly shaken” by the undisputed science, writing that“a common-sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a super-intellect has monkeyed with the physics, as well as with chemistry and biology.”

The fanatical atheists are like slaves who arestill feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who – in their grudge against traditional religion as the ‘opium of the masses’ – cannot hear the music of the spheres.”“I’m not an atheist,”added Einstein.“Theproblem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have writtenthose books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn’t know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws.”

Illustrious NASA scientist (and agnostic) Dr. Robert Jastrow (1925-2008) put it this way:“For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountain of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have beensitting there for centuries.”

First of all, i dont find evidence for the God of christians or any other God and so i dont believe in any of those Gods.

Does that mean i know for sure that there is no God or force behind it all?, No, i cant know that, but i prefer to wait for the evidence.

Now, it seems to me, that theists already come to the table with a preconceived notion that God exists and so any finding is attributed to him or she or it.

That seems like bad science in my point of view, it is better to come with a clean slate and always begin with a plausible answer and if and only if that fails before jumping into extraordinary ones.

The idea that an intellectual is behind the creation of the universe when we have found no evidence whatsoever in the universe for intelligence except for us humans, is an extraordinary claim and it needs extraordinary evidence.

donnffd:


First of all, i dont find evidence for the God of christians or any other God and so i dont believe in any of those Gods.

Does that mean i know for sure that there is no God or force behind it all?, No, i cant know that, but i prefer to wait for the evidence.

Now, it seems to me, that theists already come to the table with a preconceived notion that God exists and so any finding is attributed to him or she or it.

That seems like bad science in my point of view, it is better to come with a clean slate and always begin with a plausible answer and if and only if that fails before jumping into extraordinary ones.

The idea that an intellectual is behind the creation of the universe when we have found no evidence whatsoever in the universe for intelligence except for us humans, is an extraordinary claim and it needs extraordinary evidence.

science is growing and new findings are discovered everyday. what will you do if science proves that God exist and you no longer alive to witness this ground breaking discovery. what will now be your faith.. science with all its sophistication can't even tell you what causes GRAVITY

Gpdwise:

science is growing and new findings are discovered everyday. what will you do if science proves that God exist and you no longer alive to witness this ground breaking discovery. what will now be your faith.. science with all its sophistication can't even tell you what causes GRAVITY

You see what i mean, Bad science.

You already have a preconceived notion that God exists and his responsible for everything and it clouds your judgement on things.

You believe science is going to discover God but what if it doesnt?, what if in the future science finds a naturalistic explanation for the beginning of the universe and reality. A true scientists always puts his ideas on trials and always think about alternatives, have you thought about the alternative if science doesnt discovered God, or are you so dogmatic that you would never accept such outcome?.

Then finally, science doesnt have all the answers but it is our best bet for finding out what is true about the universe, no other enterprise has been able to do what it has done, not even religion.

science hasn't disapprove the fact that God exist instead it has supported the fact that most biblical account occur like the great flood of Noah, or the rise and fall of kingdoms as predicted by Daniel. all these ve been confirmed by archeologist and more finds are still being made. your believe is yours and for something as small as GRAVITY that science can't even explain after 400years of discovering it, how long do you think it will take science to prove that God is a fallacy. u will wait eternity

A world without atheists, religion will surely bring about a well organised slavery.