Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... - Politics (2) - Nairaland
Nairaland Forum › Nairaland General › Politics › Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... (4367 Views)
| Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by jpphilips(m): 11:48am On Sep 27, 2016 |
Validated:People like you are resourceful but unintelligent, every Governor under Obj wanted that money to be shared because it had no constitutional framework, did Obj share it? is the right question. The Governors under OBJ went to court for the ECA to be liquidated, it took a man with deep knowledge and political will to know that the money was kept for the greater good, the more you circulate rubbish like these, the more people see the weakness and incompetence in Jonathan. The person who asked for money is never the problem, it is the f00l who gave it to them without circumspection of its consequence |
| Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by obailala(m): 12:44pm On Sep 27, 2016 |
holysina:Several points to note in your story. Firstly, the battle to share ECA funds started as far back as 2004 when the account was first opened by OBJ/NOI. At the time, the governors pressuring the FG of OBJ were mainly under the same PDP's happy umbrella; so your accusation of the 'opposition' holds no water on this issue. Secondly, from your bolded statement above, did you just assert that the FG swallowed its own share of the money because the states did the same?... Does this act in any way portray a government that had any iota of political will to save? If you are a Christian, you should know the story of the prodigal son. Just imagine the father of the prodigal son saying, "since my bad son has taken his share of the family wealth and has proceeded to squander it on wine, women and wild living, I the father would also squander the bulk that is left with me." Does this in any way resemble sound judgement? |
| Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by holysina(m): 2:47pm On Sep 27, 2016 |
obailala:Note that am not in all honesty applying any judgement in this issue, only bringing logic to the discus. If you had blamed the role the opposition played thesame way you blamed the government in power then, I would have agreed with you, but you just made it look like the role they played was simply inconsequential in a democratic setting where the majority had to agree for any thing to work unlike in a military rule where you just pass decrees. Both the opposition then and the government put us in This difficult situation we found ourselves now. And if we don't stop blaming others and look for solution now, then I fear where our dear country is heading to |
| Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by Validated(op): 3:31pm On Sep 27, 2016 |
jpphilips:I would not have honoured with a reply because I am not given to replying incoherent and empty assumptions. I deal with facts. However, because you are so myopic just like the governors were, I will honour you with this reply. First, on that same gathering of ICAN conference, Mr. Rotimi Amaechi was one of the paper reveiwers, alongside other now APC ministers. The then Minister of Finance was represented for a better part by the then Accountant General - Mr Itula or so. The reveiwers berated the AG so much of the time before Okonjo-Iweala joined the session, to put the governors where they belonged. We (ICAN members) viewed the altercation as that of Governor's Forum versus the Executive; but with hindsight and the realignment of politicians, one could see that it was a deliberate action by an "opposition" bent on squandering all that was in the Federal Government earned. I could remembered vividly a statement from Amaechi on that day. Of course we laughed over it but it was a serious satement. He said that we (their government) must spend what we earned, let the future generation create their own wealth and spend it also. That was the mindset of those governors. Now to help you understand how deep this was, I will refer you to Vanguard of May 22, 2012 with title [size=15pt]"Sovereign Wealth Fund: Govs ask S-Court to abort FG’s plan to withdraw $2bn"[/size] The governors opposed the establishment of the Sovereign Wealth Fund (SWF) because of selfishness and political differences. Today, you come and blame those who had a noble intention to save for the future and also saw the opportunity to save for rainy days, yet you praise those who opposed such plan. That to me is HYPOCRISY and it has remained the bane of Nigeria progress. Read more at: http://www.vanguardngr.com/2012/05/sovereign-wealth-fund-govs-ask-s-court-to-abort-fgs-plan-to-withdraw-2bn/http://www.vanguardngr.com/2012/05/sovereign-wealth-fund-govs-ask-s-court-to-abort-fgs-plan-to-withdraw-2bn/ |
| Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by coolscott(m): 4:40pm On Sep 27, 2016 |
obailala:[size=13pt]Whereas I have not verified that Obj and Yar' Adua were also sued for the same reason... 1). The issue is that the past federal govt was taken to court in a fight to ensure the funds were not saved. 2). What matters is that in their last outing in court the governors won, the result of a hard fought investment in money, time and emotion to ensure that we use up rather than save. The fed govt had to follow/respect the rule of law (by not disobeying the court's decision). 3). Now from where did the people who initiated (and successfully executed) the battle to ensure we use up rather than save, find the moral legs upon which to stand and say it was the fed govt's fault that we did not save? The same fed govt they had to take to court to force to NOT SAVE but rather give the money to them.[/size] |
| Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by jpphilips(m): 4:41pm On Sep 27, 2016*. Modified: 5:03pm On Sep 27, 2016 |
Validated:You are still on the unintelligent path, any id!ot can ask for anything, it is up to a Government with knowledge and political will to do the needful or ignore, I told you that Obj called their madness bluff are you not aware the same governors at the time dragged baba to court. Help your destiny here; On the premise that took the NGF to court under Jonathan; The NGF had every right to look out for the fiscal entitlement of the states governed by its members. They had every right to stop the president from making illegal deductions, if indeed the deductions were illegal. The court of law should rule on such where an understanding could not be reached.That was the bingo you are not ashamed to call your president, someone who had the temerity to make illegal withdraws from a national reserve, shame on your blind stup!d soul!! Here even sickler Yaradua came under the same pressure President Umaru Yar’Adua is said to be seeking a truce with seven governors who instituted a suit at the Supreme Court to illegalise the Excess Crude Account. The Court Case against the FG.From the examples cited above, every administration before Jonathan came under the same pressure since the account was created, only the drunkard from Otuoke does not know its real value. If Yaradua and OBJ shared the ECR, what will Jonathan share? Obj was asked to push VAT to 15% boost government revenue, he refused. Buhari was asked to push it to 25%, he refused. Buhari was asked not just by any other person, but the almighty IMF to devalue the naira, he called them bluff, though Emefiele systematically devalued in the end. Buhari was asked by militants to maintain status-quo on Amnesty pay out regardless the economic challenge we find ourselves, he refused. Buhari has been advised to sell critical assets, we watch as it plays out. Buhari has been asked to restructure Nigeria, he refused. Leadership is not by mouth, it is courage and resilience that defines his actions Only a f00l will take a national decision absent circumspect, that is what Jonathan proved to be. So if Amaechi told Jonathan to give him Patience on short time, he will agree right? |
| Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by obailala(m): 5:14pm On Sep 27, 2016 |
coolscott:I don't remember the court case ever ending, it was an out of court settlement. Secondly, no one seems to have answered a question I asked earlier, if the FG really had any intentions to save, how come the FG couldn't save its own share which was quite substantial (over 50% of the total)? FG takes care of national issues while states take care of state issues. There's a reason why the FG receives a bulk of those funds, and part of that reason is cos it's the FG's responsibility to take care of certain national issues bordering on the economy. Today the economy is in shambles and it is Buhari we all knows; no one mentions the governors of respective states. So claiming that state governors took their money away from the FG's central purse is quite an empty excuse for not saving when it should have. |
| Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by beejaay: 6:13pm On Sep 27, 2016 |
obailala:are you saying it was right for obj to disobey the court and gej was wrong for obeying the court ? if your answer is yes then truely nigerians deserve every leaders we get |
| Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by beejaay: 6:16pm On Sep 27, 2016 |
obailala:tell us one good reason why federal government should save when every state have collected and spent theirs today its the states that is shouting and suffering most while and no one like you is criticizing or asking them of the money the shared.....atleast fg spent little on roads and others eventhough they looted most, tell us what the states used theirs for![]() |
| Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by Kingsley1000(m): 6:18pm On Sep 27, 2016 |
pdp monkeys will not acknowledge the fact that recession ensued way back in 2012 |
| Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by BigIyanga: 6:24pm On Sep 27, 2016*. Modified: 7:33pm On Sep 27, 2016 |
obailala:FG did that's why they're bailing out states. Why didn't most states governors save? Why are states owing workers 6-12months when in fact they had collected allocations from FG? Why are states like Anambra and Lagos paying workers without bailout? |
| Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by obailala(m): 6:36pm On Sep 27, 2016 |
beejaay:i don't remember OBJ disobeying the courts, he fought back and resisted and the case never ended till he left office. beejaay:Are you saying the FG should be irresponsible because some state governors are? |
| Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by obailala(m): 6:40pm On Sep 27, 2016 |
BigIyanga:Money used to bail out states wasn't saved intentionally. The money wasn't in the hands of the FG as it was yet to be paid. States are owing several months of salaries because their administrators were not insightful/financially prudent enough to prepare for the rainy day. But for some states to be imprudent, is that a justification for the FG to also be imprudent? |
| Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by ahaika23: 7:29pm On Sep 27, 2016 |
Umu sophisticated. We can see the magic their sophisticated finance engineer is doing with our naira. Afonjas and over sabi with nothing to offer. Only big big talk! |
| Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by BigIyanga: 7:37pm On Sep 27, 2016 |
obailala:If FG hadn't saved they would not have had any funds to bailout the states. My mind you the sharing formular is that FG get 52% while States get 48%, so states got their fair share and blew it and the went back to FG to ask for help. So those bailout funds are coming from FG's share |
| Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by obailala(m): 10:22pm On Sep 27, 2016 |
BigIyanga:How can you claim to save money that hasn't entered your hands yet?... The money used to bailout states only came in around June/july last year from NLNG. |
| Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by coolscott(m): 12:30pm On Sep 28, 2016 |
obailala:[size=13pt]No. People are saying that the former APC governors pointing fingers at the past administration for not saving have no right to do so since they fought to ensure that we do not save. As per your question (and please don't get offended about this) people consider it rather (again don't get offended) foolish. That being said, the former APC governors pointing fingers at the past administration for not saving have no right to do so since they fought to ensure that we do not save. As far as passing the buck to Buhari for the current state of the economy, of course the buck stops on his table whatever the case. When GEJ was complaining about being too criticized, of course we could not support him on that one because the buck stopped with him as the leader. So for Buhari to not feel responsible for the economy sliding (under his watch) is super childish. Especially as at least basic things that should be done and should have been done seem beyond the realization of the president and/or his team. Now whether one loves Buhari or not, the obviousness of basic things that need to be done, and the obviousness of the absence of almost all of these basic things has been one of the sad, surprising, embarassing, shocking, etc things about this govt. That is why some people don't even bother commenting/complaining anymore. They have come to the resolute conclusion that this government will fail and don't consider it worth their energy or their time.[/size] |
| Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by beejaay: 12:36pm On Sep 28, 2016 |
obailala:How did obj fight?? Is it tampering with the will of the judiciary Am sure you are aware that the case got to the supreme court during gej tenure and am sure u were aware of the media war in support of the governors ? Be sincere were u with gej or the governors during the time![]() Am not saying fg should be irresponsible, on the contrary am against irresponsible people. My only concern was the cloak of hypocrisy that surrounds the whole thing when the governors were shielded and none seems to be calling them out, to the extent that those governors that were part of the rot are today shouting gej was the cause and people like you looking the other way.. |
| Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by obailala(m): 2:08pm On Sep 28, 2016 |
beejaay:The point is that both OBJ and GEJ were pressured by governors' forum to ...and yeah, to answer your question in all sincerity, I was against the governors at the time because I knew the money was going to get into voicemail as soon as it was shared; and that's exactly what happened with several governor's then buying private jets (Amaechi, Akpabio, Niger state etc). You need to also remember that at the time in question, all the actors involved were mainly all still under the same umbrella, so the current 'left-right paradigm' tussle of PDP vs APC didn't even exist at the time. So yes, I was against the governors cos it was a case that bordered on Nigeria's progress. The same way in which current APC governors who squandered their share are accusing GEJ, that's the same way in which current PDP governors who squandered their shares are also blaming buhar; the hypocrisy is obviously not one sided. I can assure you that if PDP guys (and their supporters) who ruined this nation can be honorable enough to just shut-up, the APC guys would also be quiet and face the business of governance without resorting to blame games. |
| Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by obailala(m): 2:17pm On Sep 28, 2016 |
coolscott:So can you please explain what is foolish about my question?.. It is not enough to just say it is foolish without a reason because that would only expose you as being empty. I ask again, if GEJ had any political will or intent whatsoever to save, how come his govt couldn't save the over 50% bulk portion of the funds which the FG received? Also just as the APC governors who collected ECA funds have no right to accuse GEJ's FG of not saving, that's the same way the PDP governors accusing Buhari of not miraculously printing forex also do not have any right to do that. The responsibility of steering Nigeria out of the current economic quagmire no doubts rests on Buhari's head, but it is silly for those who immensely contributed to the mess to open their mouths to spew trash against buhari; recession doesn't start in a day, it builds up, and it is shallow for anyone to attribute the current 'depression' to Buhari alone when it was clear that the centre wasn't holding anymore and the economy was already on an accelerated nosedive as at the time the baton was handed over to him. In my sincere opinion, the only real things Buhari has done wrong border on his poor handling of social issues; IPOb, NDA, herdsmen, nepotism etc. |
| Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by coolscott(m): 11:06pm On Sep 28, 2016 |
obailala:[size=13pt]I don't know where you got the idea that the solution to our recession is the printing of forex. I also do not know where you got the idea that that is what he is being faulted for not doing. I have deliberately not said what the apparent solutions are here because it is so apparent it is surprising we are not moving in that direction. With regards to your question being considered foolish, it is just how I speculate it is being considered. This is because the question tends to suggest that a laudable response to identified errors in one place should be the replication of equal and similar errors in other places. In responding to the revelation that the governors fought in court to ensure we spent rather saved, in attempting to provide exoneration, you say "...why didn't GEJ save his own part?" Do you see how that sounds? [/size] That is why I suspect no one touched it - because it indeed sounds foolish. |
| Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by obailala(m): 12:50am On Sep 29, 2016 |
coolscott:I'm sure you should know the story of the prodigal son in the bible. Imagine the father of the prodigal son squandering the remaining family wealth and when asked why, his excuse is that his bad son took his share of the family wealth away. How foolish does that excuse sound? GEJ supporters claim the reason GEJ could not save was because some prodigal governors demanded their share of the funds... and here you are, implicitly endorsing this pointless excuse?.... For you to think that my question (why GEJ couldnt save over 50% of the funds) was foolish, that speaks volumes of your own level of wisdom. FYI, the reason no one (except you) attempted to answer the question is because everyone knows the question harshly exposes the pointlessness of the excuse being given for not saving. |
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? if your answer is yes then truely nigerians deserve every leaders we get