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Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... - Politics - Nairaland

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Femi Falana Protesting Fuel Price Increase By Jonathan In 2012 (Throwback Pic) / Lauretta Onochie During Fuel Subsidy Protest In 2012 (Throwback Photos) (2) (3) (4)

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Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by Validated: 7:09pm On Sep 26, 2016
I know that there are many people who cannot read or too lazy to read. I have therefore highlighted key areas for such individuals.

I was at the 2012 ICAN Conference and the Present Minister of Power, Works and Housing was a guest speaker on October 16, 2012. That is about 4 years ago when Nigeria was experiencing oil boom as it were. If you are quite observant you willl realise that Fashola, Feyemi, Oshomole and Amaechi of this present government have NEVER blamed Jonathan for not saving. Osinbajo, Lai Mohammed, Buhari, Kemi Adeosun, Oyegun, etc may be apt to use the time tortured line "... we are in recession because PDP under Jonathan did not save". You will never hear that from those three ex-governors and Oshomole.

Please read on...

“GOVERNANCE AND SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT: ADDRESSING THE LEADERSHIP CHALLENGE”


HIS EXCELLENCY Babatunde Raji Fashola, SAN
Governor of Lagos State


“GOVERNANCE AND SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT: ADDRESSING THE LEADERSHIP CHALLENGE”
BEING AN ADDRESS AT THE 42ND ANNUAL ACCOUNTANTS’ CONFERENCE OF THE INSTITUTE OF CHARTERED ACCOUNTANTS OF NIGERIA ON TUESDAY 16TH OCTOBER, 2012 AT THE INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE CENTRE, ABUJA.

PROTOCOLS

INTRODUCTION
Ladies and Gentlemen, it is with great pleasure and some relief that I stand before you this afternoon to address you at your 42nd Annual Accountants Conference.

Relief because I do not know how I would have faced all the accountants in the Lagos State Government and my many accountant friends if circumstances had conspired to keep me away again this year after I was regrettably unable to attend last year’s conference.

I am truly honoured and humbled that you extended the invitation once again and I am very glad to be here, especially when I am not a member of the accounting profession.

In fact truth be told, I am always a little nervous in the company of accountants because that is one skill I certainly cannot lay claim to. Thankfully, I have not been asked to analyse any figures here today.

The theme of this year’s conference is “Building Enduring Institutions for National Development” and I have been asked to speak on Governance and Sustainable Development: Addressing the Leadership Challenge”.

Interestingly, a week after I received your invitation, I received a similar one from the Association of National Accountants of Nigeria.

The theme of that conference which was held exactly a week ago was “Nigeria’s Transformation Agenda: Attaining the Millennium Development Goals By 2015” and I was asked to speak on “Challenges of Governance: The Need for Transformational Leadership”.

I was immediately struck by the similarity of themes. Sustainable Development, Governance and Leadership are the common threads that run through the themes of both conferences this year and this is remarkable.

It suggests to me that not only are Nigerian accountants; be they members of ANAN or ICAN or both, similarly apprised of the challenges we face as a nation, both organisations, wittingly or unwittingly have formed a commonality of purpose in dealing with those challenges. This unity can only be to our collective benefit. I therefore say thank you.

This commonality of purpose also made my task easier. I had thought hard about what to say to two sets of accountants so soon after the other until I studied the themes and decided that my message to you both would essentially be the same.

BUILDING ENDURING INSTITUTIONS
In the aftermath of the global economic recession when the economies of the most advanced western nations are just limping out of various economic crises; when the holder of our reserve currency has suffered significant credit risk setbacks and when the 7 (seven) fastest growing economies in the world are in Africa, the eyes of the world are certainly turning towards Africa; including Nigeria, as one of the cubs that has the potential to mature into a real lion of our continent.

Everywhere you turn, the West is looking for ways to conquer new frontiers in Africa and Asia. In a sense, it is reminiscent of the 19th century scramble and partition of Africa, which saw African destinies being determined from as far away as Europe and America.

This time, the outcome will largely be dependent on how ready we are to take our destiny in our hands. And this is why the conference theme is so apt.

At a time when it has now been irrefutably demonstrated that infrastructure is the critical lynch-pin to economic prosperity and with the clear and compelling need to renew Nigeria’s almost 4 (four) decade old and decaying infrastructure built in the hey days of the 1970s oil boom, it is doubtful whether you could have chosen a more appropriate theme for your annual conference because our best response will indeed be to build enduring institutions for national development.

Although I will be stating the obvious, I nonetheless feel that it can never be overstated that without critical infrastructure such as a reliable electricity, affordable housing and a sound efficient transport system predicated on inter and intra-city rail network, strategically connected to air and sea ports to support haulage and transportation of goods and services, Nigeria’s quest and claims to greatness will be a mere vision that hopefully will not escalate to a nightmare.

In Lagos State, we recognise that the only way to develop is to build enduring institutions. This is why the economic thrust of our Government has been one of infrastructure development and renewal to drive economic growth as the critical strategy to poverty alleviation. This in fact is our raison d’être. The reason for our existence.

In other words, we are convinced that the road out of poverty will require us to develop the economy of Lagos and the compass of development directs us towards the renewal of critical infrastructure as the path we must tread.

We have moved a step further and re-focused our energies on the vigorous pursuit of a developmental agenda distilled from our ten-point agenda, that we call PATH; an acronym for the 4 key sectors of Power, Agriculture, Transportation and Housing.
We firmly believe that investment in these key areas will drive economic growth, provide jobs and propel us on that path to prosperity and poverty eradication.

This is why not less than 60% of our annual budget has been committed to capital expenditure for the last 3 (three) and half years that has literally turned Lagos State into a big construction yard where roads, bridges, rail, jetties, drainages, schools, hospitals, power plants, waterworks and waste water facilities, to name a few are being built.

The result has been a massive creation of jobs, an active value chain of supply, a wider and growing income tax net that continues to support the finances of the State and makes us about 70% self-dependent on our internally generated revenue.

In Lagos State, budgeting is very serious business and I personally chair almost all sessions leading to the planning and delivery of every budget.

Even if I do not always agree with my much respected Hon. Commissioner for Economic Planning & Budget, Mr. Ben Akabueze and his solid team, I have learnt to act on his sensible advice on almost all matters that relate to economic planning and budget.

We hold quarterly budget review meetings to monitor our budget performance and implementation and this is why since 2007 we have achieved a consistent minimum of 70% budget performance and implementation to date.

We are not given to self-adulation but we are probably the only State in Nigeria that will survive if oil revenues suddenly fall to dangerous levels.

The message therefore is that any talk of reform or infrastructural renewal will amount to vision without action unless there is budgetary discipline and implementation.

I use those examples only to demonstrate what we must replicate nationally if we are to indeed grow into a lion of Africa; what we must do and how seriously we must take the budgetary provisions contained in every annual appropriation law that the legislature passes both at the State and the Federal level.

And to take us to heart of the matter I have a few questions.

Can we truly develop infrastructure and build enduring institutions with a budget that has over 70% recurrent item and barely 30% capital provision in the face of our clearly deficient infrastructure?

Are we simply going to miss another momentous opportunity for greatness at such an opportune time in world politics?

[size=15pt]Can we transform without the rule and the fragrant abuses of the Constitution especially Section 162 that deals with the management of the Federation Account?[/size]

Can there be proper accounting and transparency in the management of this all important Federation Account which belongs to the Federation Government, 36 State Governments and all the Local Government, if the accounting lines of the Accountant of the Federal Government remain blurred because he purports to act as the Accountant-General of the entire Federation instead of the Accountant-General of the Federal Government?
[size=15pt]On what lawful basis does the Federal Government maintain an “Excess Crude Account” that is not known to the Constitution or supported by any law if we are truly operating a constitutional democracy?

Can National Assembly without question pass an executive sponsored bill to create a Sovereign Wealth Fund to be financed from the Federation Account when the Constitution does not support it?
[/size]

Ladies and gentlemen, these factual and legal anomalies raise profound issues about compliance with the rule of law in our democracy and without any doubt, stand at the gateway to inhibit our march towards building enduring institutions and consequently, our progress towards prosperity.

If anybody is in any doubt, one only needs to look at the risk management issues to understand why many projects are either uncompleted or suffering from financing failure and budgetary non-performance.

In a federation where the Federal Government is entitled to 52% of the revenues under the existing revenue allocation formula, it is easy to extrapolate and understand that every budgetary failure or non-performance approximate to about 52% failure or non-performance in the national economy.

Is it therefore any wonder that our infrastructure is not renewing quickly enough or that our economy is witnessing macro growth without micro impact by way of jobs and prosperity?

So many questions. But more of them for you and this is the crux of my message to you today.

Is ICAN unaware of these accounting anomalies or are you agonizing about them without proffering solutions to remedy them?

Are you unthinkably maintaining a conspiratorial silence or are you reluctant to speak the truth to authority?

How can ICAN continue to maintain its revered and critical role in national development when the Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation (NNPC) defiantly violates the Constitution by failing to remit all petroleum income to the Federation Account, and organisations like yours stand by and say or do nothing?

What, for instance, is ICAN doing about the state of the economy?
Are you sitting around twiddling your toes when year on year Nigeria is recording such poor performance levels of the budget, or are you doing something about it as a body?
For many laymen, the image of the auditor is the most graphic image of an accountant that they have, much in the same way that people see only those who dress up and go to court as lawyers. But how seriously are you taking your auditing role where government is concerned?
As a body, are you questioning and examining government fiscal policies?
Was your input sought for the 2013 budget proposal? Was it offered? Will you continue to leave issues of national development to Labour Unions like PENGASSAN and NUPENG, who react only to oil industry issues and wages?
The cashless policy, the introduction of the N5000 note - are you speaking as a body to these and other fundamental issues with the potential for far reaching effects on our economy?

I believe the time for self-examination about your role in building enduring institutions for national development is now. The challenge of leadership that can engender sustainable development and transparency in governance can be met and overcome when organisations like yours, take their role much more seriously.
This is the essence of representative democracy. We have moved from a nascent to a participatory democracy, in which individuals and corporate citizens alike play a much more active role in governance.
This is also part of the enduring institutions we must build in order to prosper as a nation and ICAN ought to see itself as a Special Interest Group with a key role to play in our democracy and our development.
You have the clout to invite key government personnel, at all levels, be it federal, state or local government, to explain their policies; to explain what they are doing and why. And you must use that clout.
This is a wake-up call for you to play a more proactive role. The passage of the Freedom of Information Act has made it easier for you to perform the civic duty of the watchdog of our fiscal policies and practices on behalf of the people.
I daresay we will not get the best out of our representatives unless you engage as a body and provide solutions to the problems that arise.
This is a role that the Lagos Chamber of Commerce and the Manufacturers Association of Nigeria, to name but two, are performing creditable in Lagos State. They engage with me from time to time and this keeps us on our toes.
In this regard also, the global financial crisis has helped. It has altered the environments in which governments operate and made them much more open.
In addition, the explosion of new information and communication technologies, including social media has encouraged the rapid, global diffusion of ideas and practices that has stimulated citizens into demanding higher standards of governance, transparency and accountability in the public sector.
Nigeria has not been left out of this revolution. But clearly there is a compelling need to foster a national commitment to fiscal discipline so that we can begin to build sustainable and enduring institutions.

To do this we must challenge our leaders and institutions like ICAN must be in the vanguard of that move.

CONCLUSION
I acknowledge that I have probably asked more questions than provided answers. But I do hope that these questions will provoke in us a desire to entrench constitutional democracy anchored on the rule of law.

A desire championed by ICAN, to establish transparent fiscal policies and disciplined practices that will serve as the guide to bridge our infrastructural deficit, and bring us closer to building enduring institutions for national development.

Ladies and Gentlemen, a desire championed by you.

I thank you all for your attention.

Babatunde Raji Fashola, SAN
Governor of Lagos State

October 16, 2012.

3 Likes

Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by veacea: 7:10pm On Sep 26, 2016
Lemme comment and read later
Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by Wizzyblack3(m): 7:12pm On Sep 26, 2016
veacea:
Lemme comment and read later
Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by project8(m): 7:14pm On Sep 26, 2016
this one na revelation

4 Likes

Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by Wizzyblack3(m): 7:22pm On Sep 26, 2016
project8:
this one na revelation
A revelation some set of ppl would come here to defend and condemn.
Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by papaejima1: 7:27pm On Sep 26, 2016
Ghen ghen
Bushmeat don catch hunter for blokos

8 Likes

Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by obailala(m): 7:44pm On Sep 26, 2016
If governors asked for their entitlement of the ECA funds (which the FG was already pilfering from by the way), why could the FG not save its lion share (over 50%) of the ECA funds if it really had any intentions to save?

Nobody seems to be able to answer this question, most people just seem to dwell on the pointless blame game claiming "governors made the FG not to save"

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by ezugegere(m): 8:02pm On Sep 26, 2016
Fash is a known hypocrite

9 Likes 1 Share

Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by galaxy4rep(m): 8:04pm On Sep 26, 2016
Bursted ...

4 Likes

Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by galaxy4rep(m): 8:08pm On Sep 26, 2016
will b back when this reach front page..----
Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by Nobody: 8:30pm On Sep 26, 2016
obailala:
If governors asked for their entitlement of the ECA funds (which the FG was already pilfering from by the way), why could the FG not save its lion share (over 50%) of the ECA funds if it really had any intentions to save?

Nobody seems to be able to answer this question, most people just seem to dwell on the pointless blame game claiming "governors made the FG not to save"
But the fact that FG really had the intention of saving can not be refuted, at least that prompted major oppositions against it. And the palpable fact that about $2billion was still bequeathed to Buhari's govt in the ECA is inconfutable.

Buhari's government is never up to par with the former administration of Jonathan, how much are they spending on Subsidy despite technical removal due to the eternal rise of the dollar? What infrastructure has been put in place since coming to power? How much is our Excess Crude Account considering that oil price has been selling at $50 per barrel, $12 more than the benchmark of $38? How much is our Foreign Reserve?

14 Likes

Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by Oblang(m): 8:48pm On Sep 26, 2016
blueto:
But the fact that FG really had the intention of saving can not be refuted, at least that prompted major oppositions against it. And the palpable fact that about $2billion was still bequeathed to Buhari's govt in the ECA is inconfutable.

Buhari's government is never up to par with the former administration of Jonathan, how much are they spending on Subsidy despite technical removal due to the eternal rise of the dollar? What infrastructure has been put in place since coming to power? How much is our Excess Crude Account considering that oil price has been selling at $50 per barrel, $12 more than the benchmark of $38? How much is our Foreign Reserve?

I guess the governors shared the depleted foreign reserve too when it was supposed to grow..
Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by omonnakoda: 8:48pm On Sep 26, 2016
I see nothing to get excited about. Fashola's message was a simple and constitutional one; let every tier of government manage itself and its resources". The FG was well within its rights to manage ITS OWN SHARE of revenue any how it saw fit.
Is Lagos state in trouble? That shows that Lagos is capable of managing its own share and saving by and for itself.
That should not change in the future.
There is one fact that peoplemiss the federal budget is a federal law and so when Excess Crude funds are shared the FG has no authority to take its "SHARE" without a supplementary budget BUT IT DID so anyway, we are talking 52 % . Where is the money?
The state governments are not bound by and have no business with oil price benchmarks,that is the FG's business.
As far as the states are concerned once money reaches the Federation account it should be shared. The FG is not a senior government and has no authority to save for the states

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by obailala(m): 11:47pm On Sep 26, 2016
blueto:
But the fact that FG really had the intention of saving can not be refuted, at least that prompted major oppositions against it. And the palpable fact that about $2billion was still bequeathed to Buhari's govt in the ECA is inconfutable.

Buhari's government is never up to par with the former administration of Jonathan, how much are they spending on Subsidy despite technical removal due to the eternal rise of the dollar? What infrastructure has been put in place since coming to power? How much is our Excess Crude Account considering that oil price has been selling at $50 per barrel, $12 more than the benchmark of $38? How much is our Foreign Reserve?
Mr Man how has all these ur diversions answered my question?

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by coolscott(m): 1:14am On Sep 27, 2016
obailala:
If governors asked for their entitlement of the ECA funds (which the FG was already pilfering from by the way), why could the FG not save its lion share (over 50%) of the ECA funds if it really had any intentions to save?

Nobody seems to be able to answer this question, most people just seem to dwell on the pointless blame game claiming "governors made the FG not to save"
The governors actually had to go to court to fight their way into the depletion of the excess crude account.

1 Like

Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by Omenkata: 1:31am On Sep 27, 2016
[s]
obailala:
If governors asked for their entitlement of the ECA funds (which the FG was already pilfering from by the way), why could the FG not save its lion share (over 50%) of the ECA funds if it really had any intentions to save?

Nobody seems to be able to answer this question, most people just seem to dwell on the pointless blame game claiming "governors made the FG not to save"
[/s]
zombiesm is an incurable disease even at glaring evidence

tb joshua only cannot save you guys you need somebody and something more stronger than tpb joshua
you need Jesus undecided

12 Likes

Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by tuniski: 4:14am On Sep 27, 2016
Fashola and the rest of change chanters are largely flip-floppers!

3 Likes

Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by jesse8048(m): 4:48am On Sep 27, 2016
Everyday people keep digging up useless things APC pple said in the past. Bunch of incompetent hypocrites. With the way things are going APC will have no escape route.

3 Likes

Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by mrvitalis(m): 6:18am On Sep 27, 2016
The question is which didn't FG as at den save there own share??
Lagos is buoyant today... What of FG?? So I see Fashola was right after all.. Give me my share.. Do what ever u like with urs
Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by luvinhubby(m): 6:34am On Sep 27, 2016
obailala:
If governors asked for their entitlement of the ECA funds (which the FG was already pilfering from by the way), why could the FG not save its lion share (over 50%) of the ECA funds if it really had any intentions to save?

Nobody seems to be able to answer this question, most people just seem to dwell on the pointless blame game claiming "governors made the FG not to save"

That you even had anything left in ECA and SWF was because FG under GEJ did not spend most of it's share of the ECA.

The same thieves that demolished Nigeria financially are the ones shouting today.

5 Likes

Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by Abeymills(m): 6:45am On Sep 27, 2016
Apc is useles n d dullard daura president

2 Likes

Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by CltrAltDel: 6:46am On Sep 27, 2016
Omenkata:
[s][/s]
[s]zombiesm is an incurable disease even at glaring evidence

tb joshua only cannot save you guys you need somebody and something more stronger than tpb joshua
you need Jesus undecided [/s]

As usual insult. ...insult. ..insult. ..no meaningfull comment to topic of discussion.
Makes one wonder who is actually the REAL zombie you shout up and down.

@topic, did the gov force fg to spend their share of the ECA too
Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by Histrings08(m): 6:46am On Sep 27, 2016
Ok
Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by holysina(m): 7:17am On Sep 27, 2016
obailala:
If governors asked for their entitlement of the ECA funds (which the FG was already pilfering from by the way), why could the FG not save its lion share (over 50%) of the ECA funds if it really had any intentions to save?

Nobody seems to be able to answer this question, most people just seem to dwell on the pointless blame game claiming "governors made the FG not to save"

If your having a monthly income of 20k and you have have 6 family member that you agreed to give 2k each month while you use the remaining 8k for the family welfare, and one day your income increases to 40k, then you say to your family let me start giving giving you guys 2.5k so we can save what ever is left from the excess in case our earning drops tomorrow we can have a back up and your family say no you don't ha e that right to save for them that you must give them everything. Are you then telling me now that you will save yours for them while they finish theirs. Bros a house divided against itself can never stand. If you no want make we save together, then don't blame me for not saving mine when the doomsday come because we go suffer am together. I believe the work of the opposition is to offer solutions and call the government to other in the aspect they are failing, but APC started a bad form of opposition which is oppose anything and everything, now the ball is in their court and they complain like the world is about to end

3 Likes 1 Share

Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by Omenkata: 7:24am On Sep 27, 2016
CltrAltDel:

As usual insult. ...insult. ..insult. ..no meaningfull comment to topic of discussion.
Makes one wonder who is actually the REAL zombie you shout up and down.

@topic, did the gov force fg to spend their share of the ECA too

When the truth tastes like insult

Shatap and get out
Hypocrisy oozes like a shiit from you
Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by Kingsley1000(m): 7:39am On Sep 27, 2016
so recession started last 4years ,why blame buhari?
Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by Kingsley1000(m): 7:39am On Sep 27, 2016
so recession started 4years ago ,why blame buhari?
Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by CltrAltDel: 7:40am On Sep 27, 2016
Omenkata:


[s]When the truth tastes like insult

Shatap and get out
Hypocrisy oozes like a shiit from you[/s]
Expected as usual
Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by Kingsley1000(m): 7:42am On Sep 27, 2016
is no news that GEJ regime were the most corrupt....do u know that Nigeria was the highest importer of exotic wine and private get in 2013
Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by richidinho(m): 7:44am On Sep 27, 2016
mrvitalis:
The question is which didn't FG as at den save there own share??
Lagos is buoyant today... What of FG?? So I see Fashola was right after all.. Give me my share.. Do what ever u like with urs

Smh!
Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by obailala(m): 11:38am On Sep 27, 2016
coolscott:

The governors actually had to go to court to fight their way into the depletion of the excess crude account.
Are you aware the governors also took OBJ and Yaradua to court for the same reason?

Meanwhile, states took away about 49% of the funds, which rightfully belongs to states and LGAs; may I also remind you that the reason the voices of the state governors were raised higher was because even whilst the FG was still resisting the call to release the funds, the FG was already illegally dipping its hands into the funds.. But that is by the way, the simple question i asked is, if the FG was serious about saving, why couldn't it save the over 51% lion share which it had?... Did governors also hypnotise the FG from saving that bulk of the money?...

And besides, we aren't just talking of ECA funds are we?... ECA is just a little drop of it?.. How come Nigeria's overall reserves rose continuously under other admins, but dropped under the admin which earned the most?... Saying the governors prevented the FG from saving, don't you think that is just a lazy excuse by those in authority?
Re: Recession: What Fashola Posited In 2012. This Is The Reason We Did Not Save... by obailala(m): 11:39am On Sep 27, 2016
Omenkata:
[s][/s]
zombiesm is an incurable disease even at glaring evidence

tb joshua only cannot save you guys you need somebody and something more stronger than tpb joshua
you need Jesus undecided

Thanks bro, I got Jesus already, Halleluia!!!

But i think what you need is a brain. cheesy

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