₦airaland Forum

Seun:
How is it possible that Satan does not believe that God exists? Hasn't he met with God many times according to what you believe?

grownaira:
Satan is not an atheist. Primarily, pride and arrogance was his (first) sin.

shadeyinka:
Boda Seun
Atheism is a state of having NO God before you.
Literally, God is denied as NOT existing or is Miniscule while Self is placed above any one called God.

When you deny the authority of your Kabiesi and they ask you the name of your king, you will reply, "I have no king". This you will do even when this so called king is seated on the throne before you.

Atheism is the replacement of God with the god of Self!

It is called in modern English DEFIANCE!

plaetton:
Foolish reasoning, as usual.

You can't defy an imaginary kabiesi .
You can only rebel against something or someone that you know is real, not an imaginary or mythical character.

Can you defy or rebel against the awesome powers of Superman or the incredible hulk?

How about Santa Claus? That time of the year is approaching.
Have you been a good boy or a rebellious child ?

Theproudinfidel:
The period of doubt


Silence and soberity isn't empty it's full of answers.......... Anonymous

Do not seek truth by men, first know the truth and you will know it's adherent.... Imam ali


My moment of doubt started during a long holiday, we had in my third year at the university. Every member of the house will leave, which makes me the only person staying at home . Before people will start thinking am lonely and sad and probably suggest that for the main reason for my atheism, let it be known that am used to been alone and am obsessed with reading, most especially philosophical books. It is through these books and a large amount of self contemplation that the doubt became intense. I had so many questions my religion can not answer. I was convinced logically that there is no God but I held back because of testimonies of personal experience and miracles I had always heard. But on thinking deeper I realised I haven't witnessed any of these things first hand, I had only heard them from ear say, to put it in a more concise way I had never seen or experience anything that goes against the natural laws of nature. I prayed earnestly for God to revealed himself but I felt nothing, I became so worried and my anxiety increased. I later reasoned that the only option I had left to contact God is the Quran and I have heard so many occasions and boastful remarks about the Quran. It is believed that it won't burn when in contact with fire. On a hot afternoon in the corner of my room, I prayed and told God this is the last chance he had to prove himself to me. I tore the first page of suratul yasin roll it, and light it up. Am sure u can guess what happened next (might post the pictures if u guys need it) . After that incident I resolved never to have anything to do again with God, religion, and spirituality again. I still held Islam and it's teaching In great esteem, but after the incident I began to see Islam from another perspective; it's totalitarian and intolerant nature, it's hostility against democracy, science and philosophy, the reduction of women to sex object, and the reduction of every contact between a male and a female to sex, the concept of good and evil, and of Paradise and hell and lastly the superiority and the infallibility of the Quran.


I would definitely talk about all this aspect of Islam but the time is what am lacking. Am still a university student, so I have to share my time and do what is right in time. I just hope u can all bear with me



"But admitting for the sake of a case, that something has been revealed to a
certain person, and not revealed to any other person, it is revelation to that
person only. When he tells it to a second person, a second to a third, a third
to a fourth, and so on, it ceases to be revelation to all those persons. It is
revelation to the first person only, and hearsay to every other, and consequently
they are not obliged to believe it.
It is a contradiction in terms and ideas, to call anything a revelation that
comes to us at second-hand, either verbally or in writing. Revelation is necessarily
limited to the first communication—after this it is only an account of something
which that person says was a revelation made to him; and though he may
find himself obliged to believe it, it cannot be incumbent on me to believe it
in the same manner; for it was not a revelation made to me, and 1 have only
his word for it that it was made to him. When Moses told the children of
Israel that he received the two tables of the commandments from the hands
of God, they were not obliged to believe him, because they had no other authority
for it than his telling them so; and I have no other authority for it than some
historian telling me so. The commandments carry no internal evidence of divinity
with them; they contain some good moral precepts, such as any man qualified
to be a lawgiver, or legislator, could produce himself, without having recourse
to supernatural intervention.
When I am told that the Koran was written in heaven and brought to
Mahomet by an angel, the account comes too near the same kind of hearsay
evidence and second-hand authority as the former. 1 did not see the angel myself
and, therefore, I have a right not to believe it"...............Thomas Paine. The age of reason

plaetton:
Priceless!

EazyMoh:
OK when you memorize 1/10th of the KJV let us know.

alBHAGDADI:
One thing you fail to know is that once a person stops being Muslim, he stops thinking like them and opposes their stance. He is more likely to view things like a Christian cos morality is mostly gotten from Christian doctrines. Now, that he is an atheist, if he chooses to marry only one wife and condemns Mohammad and his atrocities pedophilia, rape and murder, you are definitely going to label him a Christian. Mind you, that is what every non-muslim sees in Islam, be it Christian, pagan or atheist.

alBHAGDADI:
You haven't refuted the 72 virgins theory that makes heavy seem like a sex paradise

alBHAGDADI:
I am of the school of thought that believes such pastors are fake.
But can you tell me that the miracles by Yahshua in the Bible are fake?

alBHAGDADI:
[s] Cramming the Quran is a useless miracles especially when blind beggars are in need of a miracle that will make them see again.

we Christians are not advices to be hearers of the word alone but doers of it. Since Muslims have been cramming and reciting the Quran, have they been better? There is no peace in all Muslim land, yet you hail those who cram the Quran over Christians who don't cram the Bible but follow the words of it.

I guess the absence of peace in the Middle East and the entire Islamic world is as a result of Muslims reading and cramming a terror manual that tells them to "Kill the Infidel".


James 1:22-25
New King James Version (NKJV)

"But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does." [/s]

EazyMoh:
You just admit to the miraculous nature of the noble Quran.
Mission Accomplished!
Moreover the Qur'an has stated it explicitly that you seek for a solution from those who can solve it. If you are sick go to the doctor for treatment not a cleric for a miracle!
Islam has nothing to do with people's social problems, infact the same Quran orders Muslims to go and work even on Fridays in order to make a living.

plaetton:
Foolish reasoning, as usual.

You can't defy an imaginary kabiesi .
You can only rebel against something or someone that you know is real, not an imaginary or mythical character.

Can you defy or rebel against the awesome powers of Superman or the incredible hulk?

How about Santa Claus? That time of the year is approaching.
Have you been a good boy or a rebellious child ?

shadeyinka:
This is the kind of response you get from a person who jumped into a discussions without first listening to both sides of the discuss!

Seun asked a simple question when I told him that the sin of Satan was atheism. His question in another form is that "If Satan stood before God, how could he now say God doesn't exist?".

That was the basis. So, rephrase!

alBHAGDADI:
Are you learned or not? How did my post admit to the pseudo-miraculous nature of the terror manual, Quran?

The same Quran that the OP burnt one of its pages?

plaetton:
Aneke, the bird of Igbo mythology also had his wings clipped due to pride and arrogance.

Theproudinfidel:
The proud infidel


My journey from faith, to agnosticism and finally atheism.

"children are taught that it is a virtue to accept statement without adequate evidence, which leaves them a prey to quakes of every kind in later life, and makes it difficult for them to accept the methods of thought which are successful in science"_ J. B. S Haldane

"when the effect of emotional convictions has subdued the man of reason will look for logical evidences for his religious beliefs”_Friedrich Nietzsche

It is often said that there are two kind of books, those that makes you think and those that makes you wonder. This is by no means a book but an essay that will make you do both. In my early twenties, having lived the most of my life as a Muslim who believed in Islam and it's teaching as the only guided path to paradise in the afterlife, I fell into a deep religious crisis which made me doubtful and renounce everything concerning God, religion and spirituality. I knew I disappointed a lot of people, many called me names; crazy, amnesic, schizophrenic many even say I have forgotten myself. I ignore everything since my aim is the truth. Friedrich Nietzsche once said that the seeker of truth must not only be able to love his enemies, he must be able to hate his friends too. Don't let me bore you with my emotions, they will only lengthen the discussion, am here to tell u my story to atheism, ride with me.


Just like every kid that is given birth to, I was indoctrinated into my parent's religion; a Muslim, I was made to believe that there was no God except Allah and Muhammad is his messenger, I was made to believe that the Quran is an unequivocal word of God which was to be obeyed literarily and that the prophet and his traditions exhibit a mode of life of an utmost degree of morality that can bring humans to the happiness they so desire.

I first came in contact with Christianity when I was twelve through the the works of the great Muslim orator and a scholar of comparative religion studies, who gave Islam and Muslim's a great weapon of conversion, which include series of arguments and the use of logic and reason. I was a proponent of his works, until I came to realise he has no carnal knowledge of the Christian faith. From the perspective of a philosopher religious dogmas and beliefs cannot conform with logic and reason hence why they were named dogmas. He(Ahmed deedat) applied his reason and logic in interpreting the Bible and it's teachings thereby going against every doctrine the church and clergy men stood for. He forgot the Muslim fundamentalist would not allow the same thing be done to the Quran and it's teachings.

The cases of the mu'tazilites and the zindiqs are worth mentioning; they consist of certain sects and individual who approached the Quran with reason and logic then came to some conclusions that were against the teaching of the orthodox Muslims, of course these sects and individuals were not free since Islam is practically against freethinking and reason, they were subsequently executed, burned, crucified, decapitated and in worst scenario beheaded.

Continued here: https://www.nairaland.com/3481917/journey-islam-atheism/1#51337684

plaetton:
Oh, I followed quite alright.

And my response was very appropriate.

For years in this forum, we have been trying to educate you folks on the meaning of atheism, but the religious virus, the religious firewall inside your heads just won't let it filter through.

You choose to define atheism only on your own terms, and as it suits you. That's why having sensible discussions with most you is like romancing a Stone. No common grounds.

Atheism is not a rebellion or rejection of god.
It is an ACCEPTANCE that there is no such thing as god.
And as you can read from this thread and many many threads from NEW atheists, it is always a gradual, slow, lonely, even frightening process of MENTAL Auditing, realization and ACCEPTANCE.

EazyMoh:
Lol!
Of course uncountable number of Muslims apostate all over the world on daily basis, but this isn't the case. You may choose to believe the OP but we know better which is why we not even angry in fact we are happy that a story like this has to be fabricated by some people just make themselves feel good.
All those so called miracles of Islamic inscriptions are mostly fake and fabricated and knowledgeable people like me don't take them serious nor need them to believe.
Ever wondered why Islam doesn't care about all those present day prophesies and miracles? While we believe Allah can do anything and everything He wills, we don't support mediocrity, stupidity nor naivete. This was why while Christianity was prescribing exorcism for every ailment believing all sickness are effects of the devil, Islam was supporting and perfecting scientific treatments of different ailments.
Most importantly the number one Miracle authenticated by Islam which is used to challenge anybody that demands a miracle from Islam is the GLORIOUS QURAN.
1 If you think it's not from the Almighty God that it's mere book written by a mere mortal the bring/write another that is comparable to it.
2. The Quran is INCORRUPTIBLE, and it's message is indestructible.
3. No book has been memorized in its entirety by people even it's own authors. Even Chinua Achebe couldn't narrate Things Fall Apart off-hand.
These three and more miracles will continue to hold exclusively for Quran only till the day of judgement.
Islam has this undeniable timeless miracle, therefore it doesn't need writing on a leaf or tree in a remote village to make a point.
Anyway OP continue.

urahara:
I have a feeling that this thread will end up like hard mirrors own.

Before u know it we wld start seeing threads lyk

Theproud infidel exposed

Muslims point out the lies in the proudinfidel story. Com

EazyMoh:
Lol! Thats another problem, nowhere is it in Islam that pages of Quran will not burn when set on fire. The Quran never claimed that miracle. In fact Caliph Uthman himself burnt other variant transcripts of the Quranic text after compiling a general one.

alBHAGDADI:
You mean your caliph burnt some verses of the Quran you all claim is the word of Allah? You mean Allah couldn't protect his words from being burnt by the caliph even after claiming that he will protect his words?

Maybe the caliph uthman burnt some of the violent parts of Quran. You all need to advice your new caliph, Abu bakr Al Baghdadi, to burn the remaining passages of the Quran cos they are all violent.

grownaira:
Stop fooling yourself please. Burning, is one of the Islamically prescribed way of disposing damaged, worn out or faded texts of the Qur'an.

grownaira:
For the bolded, Islam, if really was/is your religion have answers to all your questions. You probably don't know the answers and haven't asked. Allah azza wa jal, in Surah Al'Anbiya says (what can be translated as) "...so ask the people of the knowledge, if you do not know". So ask your questions here, and those with knowledge will answer you.


The answers I get from the Quran raise more problem than they can solve. A common example is how it is impossible to relate free will with God's pre ordination of things.


A primary one student in an Islamic school knows that the bolded above is not possible in this world. God does not reveal Himself to humans to be seen ra'yal ayn, not even to his Prophets and/or messengers. This forces one to wonder if if you even have at least a basic knowledge of Islam.

In Surah Al'A'raf, Allah azza wa jal says (what can be translated as ): "And when Moses arrived at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said, "My Lord, show me [Yourself] that I may look at You." [ Allah ] said, "You can not see Me, but look at the mountain; if it should remain in place, then you will see Me." But when his Lord appeared to the mountain, He rendered it level, and Moses fell unconscious. And when he awoke, he said, "Exalted are You! I have repented to You, and I am the first of the believers.".

Similarly, in surah Al'An'am, he azza wa jal says (what can be translated as): "Vision perceives Him not, but He perceives [all] vision; and He is the Subtle, the Acquainted."

I never said I wanted to see Him maybe you should reread, I only want a personal encounter, at least God spoke to Moses. let your God differentiate himself by not speaking through books





For the bolded, Who believes that? Muslims I know do not believe in such. No where is it state in the Qur'an, Sunnah or any Islamic literature both classical and modern that the Qur'an does not burn. Bal, burning is one of the Islamically prescribed way of disposing damaged or worn out copies of the texts of the Qur'an. This, even a primary student in an Islamic school knows .

well let just say my anxiety caused that, I knew it was going to burn anyway, but what about the part where I ask God to prove himself through that.



No need for pictures. We all know that not only suratul yasin, even if it is the whole Qur'an, it will burn no doubt about that.



Really? Your choice though.




Patiently waiting for your to talk about the bolded.


of course I will....... I just need you to be patient am so busy



All these are strictly the author's opinion. It definitely does not hold water or makes sence, atleast to me.




The bolded is Muhammad, not Mahomet.

Finally, find below comments of some notable modern scholars with regards the Qur'an.


"A totally objective examination of it [the Qur'an] in the light of modern knowledge, leads us to recognize the agreement between the two, as has been already noted on repeated occasions. It makes us deem it quite unthinkable for a man of Muhammad's time to have been the author of such statements on account of the state of knowledge in his day. Such considerations are part of what gives the Qur'anic Revelation its unique place, and forces the impartial scientist to admit his inability to provide an explanation which calls solely upon materialistic reasoning."
Maurice Bucaille, THE QUR'AN AND MODERN SCIENCE, 1981, p. 18.


“It is impossible that Muhammad (peace be upon him) authored the Quran. How could a man, from being illiterate, become the most important author, in terms of literary merits, in the whole of Arabic literature?
How could he then pronounce truths of a scientific nature that no other human-being could possibly have developed at that time, an all this without once making the slightest error in his pronouncement on the subject?”
[Dr. Maurice Bucaille – author of “The Bible, the Quran and Science” 1978, p. 125]



“In making the present attempt to improve on the performance of my predecessors, and to produce something which might be accepted as echoing however faintly the sublime rhetoric of the Arabic Koran, I have been at pain to study the intricate and richly varied rhythms which – apart from the message itself – constitute the Koran’s undeniable claim to rank amongst the greatest literary masterpieces of mankind..
This very characteristic feature – ‘that inimitable symphony’, as the believing Pickthall described his Holy Book, ‘the very sounds of which move men to tears and ecstasy’ has been almost totally ignored by previous translators; it is therefore not surprising that what they have wrought sounds dull and flat indeed in comparison with the splendidly decorated original..”
[Arthur J. Arberry – “The Koran Interpreted”, London: Oxford University Press . 1964, p. x.]



"...in summary, the Qur'an describes not only the development of external form, but emphasises also the internal stages, the stages inside the embryo, of its creation and development, emphasising major events recognised by contemporary science."

"As a scientist, I can only deal with things which I can specifically see. I can understand embryology and developmental biology. I can understand the words that are translated to me from the Qur'an. As I gave the example before, if I were to transpose myself into that era, knowing what I do today and describing things, I could not describe the things that were described...

I see no evidence to refute the concept that this individual Muhammad had to be developing this information from some place... so I see nothing here in conflict with the concept that divine intervention was involved in what he was able to write..." E. Marshall Johnson, Professor and Chairman of the Department of Anatomy and Developmental Biology, and Director of the Daniel Baugh Institute, Thomas Jefferson University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA.


"... these Hadiths (sayings of Muhammad) could not have been obtained on the basis of the scientific knowledge that was available at the time of the 'writer'... It follows that not only is there no conflict between genetics and religion (Islam) but in fact religion (Islam) may guide science by adding revelation to some of the traditional scientific approaches... There exist statements in the Qur'an shown centuries later to be valid which support knowledge in the Qur'an having been derived from God.". Joe Leigh Simpson, Professor and Chairman of the Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas, USA.



"Thinking where Muhammad came from... I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years with very complicated and advanced technological methods that this is the case."

"Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics 1400 years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind for instance that the earth and the heavens had the same origin, or many others of the questions that we have discussed here...

If you combine all these and you combine all these statements that are being made in the Qur'an in terms that relate to the earth and the formation of the earth and science in general, you can basically say that statements made there in many ways are true, they can now be confirmed by scientific methods, and in a way, you can say that the Qur'an is a simple science text book for the simple man. And that many of the statements made in there at that time could not be proven, but that modern scientific methods are now in a position to prove what Muhammad said 1400 years ago.". Alfred Kroner, Professor of the Department of Geosciences, University of Mainz, Germany.


"I find it very interesting that this sort of information is in the ancient scriptures of the Holy Qur'an, and I have no way of knowing where they would have come from. But I think it is extremely interesting that they are there and this work is going on to discover it, the meaning of some of the passages."

And when he was asked about the source of the Qur'an, he replied, "Well, I would think it must be the divine being.". William Hay, Professor of Oceanogprahy, University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado, USA.

alBHAGDADI:
Then why do we keep seeing pictures of Muslims celebrating a Quran that didn't get burnt in a fire as a miracle from Allah? Why order for Quran to be burnt when you are still going to prevent one from burning in a burning house?

Theproudinfidel:
As far as I am concerned, the so called scientific theory in the Quran is not enough for a prove for its divinity. Before Jesus and Muhammad was born Democritus, anaximander and theophrastus all speculated and propounded scientific facts that were confirmed by empirical researches in modern times. And they claim no divine inspiration for it.

EazyMoh:
Grownaira and farmerforlife I'd have loved if you allowed him to finish his concocted story then we'd debunk it at once. Your replies may hive him a clue to try and correct his future lies.

Another issue is this I thought your Muslim people will just behead you at once when they found out you are now a proud infidel (as you call yourself) but instead they just called you names? That's interesting.
Anyway any Muslim reading this story knows the author was/is a Christian, because he's describing more of Christianity than Islam.
This is the part that gave you up as a Christian

Testimonies and Miracles in Islam?
Guy park well!

Farmerforlife:
He is a christian pretending to be a Muslim. He thinks the way christians believe Muslims think, not the way Muslims really think. You cant fake being a Muslim, it is very obvious.

By the way, why would we be jittery? I personally am a Muslim by conviction. In my college days, I passed through a prolonged atheist stage myself where I was a convinced atheist, may Allah forgive me, so I do not see anything that an atheist would say today to convince me that God does not exist. They have no argument that I have not researched and refuted, except the one that I should tell God to appear to them. So this article is just a passing discussion.

Contrary to christians who go to the church with the most flashy miracles, our faith is not justified by those so-called incidents. Personally, I do not even believe that such things happened. As for healing, pastors don't heal either, but at least we Muslims don't go around using 419 healings to eat poor people's meagre wealth to sponsor an ostentatious lifestyle of yachts, mansions and private jets.

Theproudinfidel:
well only few people still know my stance about religion in real life. For the records I still attend Arabic and Quranic class

Theproudinfidel:
religion consist of series of dogmas that makes people think their beliefs is the only sane way of viewing the world.........Henry Thomas huxley

of course I would sound like a Christian since I don't view Islam the way I understand it before.... I suggest u read ibn Warraq's why I am not a Muslim and Ali dashti's twenty five years...since I might no be able to answer u fully

Farmerforlife:
Regardless of how you claim to view Islam now, your statements concerning your past when you claimed to be a Muslim do not reflect the way a Muslim thinks. In any case, dont let me hold you back, you will not be the first to claim ex-Muslim. While I do know a number of ex-Muslims, they are generally honest enough not to pretend that they were knowledgeable or that they converted because of logical analysis. They confess that it was either due to laziness (prayer is always difficult for the hypocrite), or ignorance (coming from secular 'Muslim' parents, or gullible, looking for miracles for fast money up and down.

Theproudinfidel:
well I guess it has to be so. Am a little different from a normal Muslim kid. A Muslim kid is made to cram the Quran and host other religious material at the expense of their ability to think critically and out out of the box, thats why even the so called scholars sound so ridiculous on some issue; I give u an example, ibn baz the late grand mufti of Saudi Arabia once said that females are not allowed to drive because cars produce a vibrating effect which is capable arousing the female sexually. lastly I stop thinking like every Muslim because I read slot about other people's religion and found out Islam didn't stand out on some subject as it claims to be, a good example is that I found the codes of manu treating women more than quranic injuctions, and I respect the ideas of the Buddhism sanctity of life more astonishing than what we have in Islam. Having realise all these I came to conclusion that no religion has a monopoly on the truth