omohayek:
This project makes no economic sense: if it did, there'd be no need for government intervention . Kano would be much better served by improving its rail and road links to the southern ports than by a white elephant project like this.

I'm inclined to agree with those who see this project as just another means for politicians to siphon off funds without being too obvious about it.

Are u a educated? If so pls the name of your school. Thanks

LorDBolton:


Are u a educated? If so pls the name of your school. Thanks

What exactly are you asking? Are you trying to insinuate something? If so, I suggest you make actual arguments to buttress your viewpoint, rather than asking rhetorical questions.

Oh, and for the record, I am pretty sure I'm far better educated than you are, with an Ivy League degree, and years working on Wall Street and in the City of London. When I say projects like this make no financial sense, I know what I'm talking about from experience. Can you say the same for yourself?

Playa0ne:


How do the Chinese get paid? That information was left out.

If u were educated you would know the firm will recoup their investment + interest via gate receipts, adverts etc when the project kicks off.

How is world Bank recouping their investment in the BRT scheme?

Why do u think govt is begging citizens to stop destroying public infrastructure? All these assets pay back loans whilst citizens enjoy improved standard of living

omohayek:


What exactly are you asking? Are you trying to insinuate something? If so, I suggest you make actual arguments to buttress your viewpoint, rather than asking rhetorical questions.

Oh, and for the record, I am pretty sure I'm far better educated than you are, with an Ivy League degree, and years working on Wall Street and in the City of London. .

When I say projects like this make no financial sense, I know what I'm talking about from experience. Can you say the same for yourself?

The 1st bolded is enough for me...

The 2nd bolded just made me lmao.

No way u worked in wall Street & still question why govt gets involved in projects of this magnitude... no way!

I repeat NO FÙCKING WAY!

LorDBolton:


The 1st bolded is enough for me...

The 2nd bolded just made me lmao.

No way u worked in wall Street & still question why govt gets involved in projects of this magnitude... no way!

I repeat NO FÙCKING WAY!

I really don't care whether you believe me or not. Can you provide a reasoned argument to support your opinion, instead of trying to pass off capitalization as an argument? Otherwise all you have is empty bluster.

Chigboboss:


Is it worse than the satanic evil human abbatoirs you have scattered all over your region? If your are not harvesting human legs, eyes and breasts then you are raping your women like rabid dogs.

Only a mad man would venture in your region without two eyes sellotaped open, a place where a bag of rice is worth more than your own sister's private parts.

S1lly hateful Osun-born b.ast.ard.

I taught u were ebo but it's so clear to me dat u ar a northing nama.Hw many girlz did u kidnap 4 ur phedophile Emir diz week?
Barbaric almajari goat.

LorDBolton:


If u were educated you would know the firm will recoup their investment + interest via gate receipts, adverts etc when the project kicks off.

How is world Bank recouping their investment in the BRT scheme?

Why do u think govt is begging citizens to stop destroying public infrastructure? All these assets pay back loans whilst citizens enjoy improved standard of living

Loud fool! Go do some learning with your reckless display of Ignorance, its not bliss. How many years will it take China to recoup 85% of 1.8billion$ from tolls and your imaginary adverts in Kano? What is Kano's monthly allocation and total IGR for 20years? and with all your acclaimed wisdom you think building a railway in Kano and waiting forever to recoup is the best way for China to use it resources, if there is no ulterior motive, because China has nothing better to do with funds? LORD indeed!

When you have nothing to say, say nothing!

Chigboboss:


At least dem go dey inside the train...

Unlike these Afon.jas wey pay VIP ticket abi? S1ll.y Osun brown roof c.retin feeling funky .

The person u replied is Igbo. You are also Igbo.

Keep deceiving unaselves. The bible is very complete.

Playa0ne:


Did you say gradually? Its already happening bro. The rail project that GEJ constructed from the North to the west that ran into billions of $ was 75% Chinese funding. How do we pay them back? They are building projests across Africa for the next decade worth about $75billion in exchange for control of key resources for some donkey years. And the bad thing about Chinese construction is that they bring their people to do every single task...leaving very little or no work for the locals...so the get to do the work, provide work for their people and take your resources for almost free...we are in deep shit.

It's not only Africa. The Chinese are playing a long game. They also own the largest foreign share of Americas debt (govt bonds). America better have dt money when it matures or compensation will have to be made in other areas. They're just smart. They know africa has a lot of resources to dole out if they can't repay these loans.

omohayek:


I really don't care whether you believe me or not. Can you provide a reasoned argument to support your opinion, instead of trying to pass off capitalization as an argument? Otherwise all you have is empty bluster.

When a so called ivy league grad with experience working on Wall Street and in the UK sounds so unintelligent... why will I engage such a person in a 'reasonable' argument?

Any lemme repost the idiotic parts of ur comment that only a SSCE holder MIGHT (I Repeat MIGHT) type.

#1- it makes no economic sense, if it did govt will not be involved.

#2- kano state govt should focus on rails LEADING TO SOUTHERN PORTS


If you claim to be educated yet can't see how dull it looks then oga ivy league+wall Street experience + city of London experience carry on!

Smiling @ "Empty bluster" tag as I waltz away

Bye

janellemonae:


It's not only Africa. The Chinese are playing a long game. They also own the largest foreign share of Americas debt (govt bonds). America better have dt money when it matures or compensation will have to be made in other areas. They're just smart. Africa has a lot of resources to dole out if they can't repay these loans.

You think the Americans cant take care of themselves? think again! Do you know how much the American government makes for exchanging a single dollar bill with foreign commodities and services? Ask your self how much does it cost to print one dollar note of any denomination in America and then think of what that dollar note printed with some cents can buy abroad. Lesson, NEVER compare your dumb country with America... they make the rules!
Africa has a lot of resources to dole out? really? how old are you? Do you know how much those resources are really worth? The Chinese get like 1000times what they give Africa, coupled with the consequent environment degradation we would face and you think its ok? Think again bo!

LorDBolton:


Seriously you're dull... this is a JV agreement, the state govt will repay the loan with proceeds from the project

That's what LASG is doing with the BRT and blue rail dummy!

What does china get out of this? Improved GNP, improved influence in Africa and improved expertise for its engineers.

What does kano get out of it? Improved TP network, improved revenue, improved trade activities, improvement in quality of life.

So pls shut up n stop displaying ignorance, if china dominates africa it's because of africans not being patriotic enough to follow through on agreements.

I'll ignore you insults and follow through with your last point.

Africans will not be patriotic enough to follow through on agreements, when the next governor comes in, he'll say he didn't start it and its not his business (hear out wike's speech about amechi's rail) so he won't go ahead with it.

But the loan will still be there, accumulating interests, one day, it will be too much and we have to give up something in Africa for d loans.

You call me dull no wahala, look at your first point, "the state govt will repay", how many government have been able to repay, Nigeria had to beg for debt cancelation during Obasanjo, Lagos state is heavily indebted, same as Ogun..... The revenue of Kano is nothing close to these 3 govt, Lagos, Ogun and Nigeria.

Talking about the project itself refunding, please tell us what project in Africa have survived 10years, the national stadium Abuja was among the top 5 stadiums in Africa in 2003, please have you seen it today?

Since I was born they have been working on Lagos Ibadan express road but its yet to be concluded.

Do you know how many billions Obasanjo marked out for power, do you have light now?

Playa0ne:


Loud fool! Go do some learning with your reckless display of Ignorance, its not bliss. How many years will it take China to recoup 85% of 1.8billion$ from tolls and your imaginary adverts in Kano?. What is Kano's monthly allocation and total IGR for 20years?

When you have nothing to say, say nothing!

Now I know you're not educated. Lols

The loan repayment period for the world Bank loan (brt) is 40 years + if i'm not mistaken.

Loans are not repaid in lump sum dummy!

Before they chose those routes they would have projected earnings in relation to expenses, thus only they know the agreed amount to be paid at agreed intervals (after a moratarium period of course)

Also the 85% investment shows the chinese will have more say in the 'day-to-day' running of the firm thus it's could end up in Chinese hands till investment has been recouped or after a specified period of time. Hence the gate receipts n adverts I also added ETC cos obviously I'm not party to the deal thus I use past models.

That u cannot phantom different ways loans are repaid makes me wonder what people are taught in schools.

Show me city that transformed without debt, show me a successful business that's isn't run on debt

Arsenal's ambitious new stadium left them in huge debts which they had to repay you're here talking about how a state govt cannot repay a loan (if it' does d needful)

Wonderful project.

LorDBolton:

Now I know you're not educated. Lols

The loan repayment period for the world Bank loan (brt) is 40 years + if i'm not mistaken.

Loans are not repaid in lump sum dummy!

Before they chose those routes they would have projected earnings in relation to expenses, thus only they know the agreed amount to be paid at agreed intervals (after a moratarium period of course)[/b]

Also the 85% investment shows the chinese will have more say in the 'day-to-day' running of the firm thus it's could end up in Chinese hands till investment has been recouped or after a specified period of time. Hence the gate receipts n adverts I also added ETC cos obviously I'm not party to the deal thus I use past models.

That u cannot phantom different ways loans are repaid makes me wonder what people are taught in schools.

You even sound more stupid Lordofshit! So you dont even know the Arrangements for repayment yet keeping quiet is too difficult for you?The questions never said the loan was to be paid back in lump, but your empty self is looking for a way out of a hole you jumped into. What is Kano's IGR that warrants an institute without an ulterior motive to make such huge investment there? Is this a world Bank loan? and do you even know the conditions tired to a world bank loan?(You think its a come and chop) Besides why didnt the state government give details of the whole deal if there is nothing to hide? Use your brain Lordofshit!

janellemonae:


The person u replied is Igbo. You are also Igbo.

Keep deceiving unaselves. The bible is very complete.

Guy!ar u ok?stay off my lane.

larion:


I'll ignore you insults and follow through with your last point.

Africans will not be patriotic enough to follow through on agreements, when the next governor comes in, he'll say he didn't start it and its not his business (hear out wike's speech about amechi's rail) so he won't go ahead with it.

But the loan will still be there, accumulating interests, one day, it will be too much and we have to give up something in Africa for d loans.

You call me dull no wahala, look at your first point, "the state govt will repay", how many government have been able to repay, Nigeria had to beg for debt cancelation during Obasanjo, Lagos state is heavily indebted, same as Ogun..... The revenue of Kano is nothing close to these 3 govt, Lagos, Ogun and Nigeria.

Talking about the project itself refunding, please tell us what project in Africa have survived 10years, the national stadium Abuja was among the top 5 stadiums in Africa in 2003, please have you seen it today?

Since I was born they have been working on Lagos Ibadan express road but its yet to be concluded.

Do you know how many billions Obasanjo marked out for power, do you have light now?

Unlike the prev 2 peeps I quoted u gave an intelligent comeback argument so lemme apologise for using the term dull.

Now to your point the examples you gave are related to 'politics' and our inability to separate politics(of incumbency) from govt(as a continuum)

Sadly kano state is going through issues with kwankwanso / ganduje which I hope won't affect the project.

Under obj we cancelled debts cos it was a diff matter, we had just regained democracy and it was a slippery slope, thus we needed stability(mainly economic) thus debts were bugging us down thus the west did it as a gesture to help our nascent democracy grow.

Now to the. Crux of the matter, I can only use the lagos example, thanks to a stable, purpose driven party / succession t-b-ambo

The BRT extension to ikorodu is example of govt as a continuum, if i'm to give an estimate of how much that project makes in a day (without deducting expenses) it'll be @least 20million to give the lowest price o

Your points are all based on pessimism which I can't blame u for...it's justified

I'm looking on the bright side cos I believe the govs we have in lag n that kano are purpose driven.

Yes lagos is in debt...but like the govnor said they're servicable so I won't worry, it's states that. Refused to use the funds for the earmarked projects I worry about

Like I said I base my argument on the good things borrowed funds for capital projects have done for us here in lag.

To summarise, I don't believe pessimism helped us in the past, and it certainly won't help us now.

Kathmandu:
How many railway contract will be signed for this Kano metropolis

Emm Sizano,just two contracts had been signed Emmm third contract loading which will link the state to Kaduna and then Abuja the Federal Capital territory of Corruption

Gyarbonka

Playa0ne:


You think the Americans cant take care of themselves? think again! Do you know how much the American government makes for exchanging a single dollar bill with foreign commodities and services? Ask your self how much does it cost to print one dollar note of any denomination in America and then think of what that dollar note printed with some cents can buy abroad. Lesson, NEVER compare your dumb country with America... they make the rules!
Africa has a lot of resources to dole out? really? how old are you? Do you know how much those resources are really worth? The Chinese give get like 1000times what they give us, coupled with the consequent environment degradation we would face and you think its ok? Think again bo!

I was actually agreeing wt ur earlier post. U really need to settle down when reading. China is indeed trying to take over Africa. Dt is why they're giving out these loans to resource rich countries in Africa. So they can end up taking over the resources. Hope u understood dt part now. In case u didn't know, Africa is very rich in resources. It's d same reason d Europeans conquered, divided & were territorial over their African colonies. It wasn't out of d goodness of their heart.


Now as for America. It's a real issue & it's reasoning has bn discussed in economic circles as to d reasons why d Chinese buy American debt. Ur just ignorant. As I said, the Chinese are smart and are playing a long game. It's not short term.

LorDBolton:


Unlike the prev 2 peeps I quoted u gave an intelligent comeback argument so lemme apologise for using the term dull.

Now to your point the examples you gave are related to 'politics' and our inability to separate politics(of incumbency) from govt(as a continuum)

Sadly kano state is going through issues with kwankwanso / ganduje which I hope won't affect the project.

Under obj we cancelled debts cos it was a diff matter, we had just regained democracy and it was a slippery slope, thus we needed stability(mainly economic) thus debts were bugging us down thus the west did it as a gesture to help our nascent democracy grow.

Now to the. Crux of the matter, I can only use the lagos example, thanks to a stable, purpose driven party / succession t-b-ambo

The BRT extension to ikorodu is example of govt as a continuum, if i'm to give an estimate of how much that project makes in a day (without deducting expenses) it'll be @least 20million to give the lowest price o

Your points are all based on pessimism which I can't blame u for...it's justified

I'm looking on the bright side cos I believe the govs we have in lag n that kano are purpose driven.

Yes lagos is in debt...but like the govnor said they're servicable so I won't worry, it's states that. Refused to use the funds for the earmarked projects I worry about

Like I said I base my argument on the good things borrowed funds for capital projects have done for us here in lag.

To summarise, I don't believe pessimism helped us in the past, and it certainly won't help us now.

slowpoke debtors dont cancel debt, Nigeria was pardoned by their creditors under Obj..goverment can only breach contracts by not meeting there part of the obligations and this causes funding partners to also default...learn Lordofshit!

janellemonae:


I was actually agreeing wt ur earlier post. U really need to settle down when reading. China is indeed trying to take over Africa. Dt is why they're giving out these loans to resource rich countries in Africa. So they can end up taking over the resources. Hope u understood dt part now. In case u didn't know, Africa is very rich in resources. It's d same reason d Europeans conquered, divided & were territorial over their African colonies. It wasn't out of d goodness of their heart.


Now as for America. It's a real issue & it's reasoning has bn discussed in economic circles as to d reasons why d Chinese buy American debt. Ur just ignorant. As I said, the Chinese are smart and are playing a long game.

Lol...Go to a good school dummy, since you have internet dont waste it on Nairaland, register on cousera and take a course on political economy . thank me later.
By the way was the picture included to make you to appear smart? well it didnt work! lol

SIRmanjar:


Who b southern folk wey dey full of envy, kinko kiniko ad abject ignorance? NAMA

You mean those folks wey dem dey conceive before dem mama and papa marry i.e. BASTARDS - shey you know.

omohayek:


Why must it be any of those things which drives criticism of this project? $1.8 billion would be an inflated sum for rail services no matter what part of the country is under discussion, and if the project can be justified on a purely commercial basis, why does the Kano state government need to be involved?

Guy, abeg receive sense.

LorDBolton:


Seriously you're dull... this is a JV agreement, the state govt will repay the loan with proceeds from the project

That's what LASG is doing with the BRT and blue rail dummy!

What does china get out of this? Improved GNP, improved influence in Africa and improved expertise for its engineers.

What does kano get out of it? Improved TP network, improved revenue, improved trade activities, improvement in quality of life.

So pls shut up n stop displaying ignorance, if china dominates africa it's because of africans not being patriotic enough to follow through on agreements.

At last a sensible post, backward bench warming flatrons everywhere, move dem no go gree, some else is moving they complain and these are suppose to be the best set of brains since Einstein?.

LorDBolton:


When a so called ivy league grad with experience working on Wall Street and in the UK sounds so unintelligent... why will I engage such a person in a 'reasonable' argument?

Any lemme repost the idiotic parts of ur comment that only a SSCE holder MIGHT (I Repeat MIGHT) type.

#1- it makes no economic sense, if it did govt will not be involved.

#2- kano state govt should focus on rails LEADING TO SOUTHERN PORTS


If you claim to be educated yet can't see how dull it looks then oga ivy league+wall Street experience + city of London experience carry on!

Smiling @ "Empty bluster" tag as I waltz away

Bye

God, you're a slowpoke. Is this what passes for an argument in whatever backwater you crawled out from? You bring no facts, no logical arguments whatsoever, just insult after insult, all to cover up the fact that you don't have the first clue what you're talking about. Let's face facts, you couldn't provide a reasonable argument if your very life depended on it, nitwit.

That's the problem with Nairaland; every opinionated semi-illiterate with a little data left on a cheap mobile plan is free to pollute the forum with ignorant nonsense. Even fools who can't even spell properly, let alone explain the efficient markets hypothesis or the CAPM model, are free to posture as if they had anything at all to add to a discussion.

MeAboki:


Guy, abeg receive sense.

Could you at least try a little harder than that clown and provide a semblance of an explanation of why you think I'm wrong? If it were my governor proposing a scheme like this, I'd be wanting him to give me detailed financial justification for it - after all it, I and my children would be among the taxpayers who would have to service the debts to go with the plan.

omohayek:


Could you at least try a little harder than that clown and provide a semblance of an explanation of why you think I'm wrong? If it were my governor proposing a scheme like this, I'd be wanting him to give me detailed financial justification for it - after all it, I and my children would be among the taxpayers who would have to service the debts to go with the plan.

Having already entrusted him with your mandate to represent you by voting him into office; no governor will be expected to give you the nitty gritty i.e. contract of such agreement that he may have reached with a third party on your behalf on the pages of a newspaper; but to give the general gist of such project as in this particular case with the Kano State govt.

The basic information e.g. scope i.e. proposed routes of the rail network; the cost and the funders i.e. Govt and the Chinese firm at a ratio of 15% to 85% where the govt's counter part funding will be $1.8bn - so what else do you need; besides there is nothing stopping any stakeholder from writing and requesting for more details from the govt.

Igbo people have started their jealousy against Hausa . y are Igbo's this wicked?

MeAboki:


Having already entrusted him with your mandate to represent you by voting him into office; no governor will be expected to give you the nitty gritty i.e. contract of such agreement that he may have reached with a third party on your behalf on the pages of a newspaper; but to give the general gist of such project as in this particular case with the Kano State govt.

The basic information e.g. scope i.e. proposed routes of the rail network; the cost and the funders i.e. Govt and the Chinese firm at a ratio of 15% to 85% where the govt's counter part funding will be $1.8bn - so what else do you need; besides there is nothing stopping any stakeholder from writing and requesting for more details from the govt.

Maybe such an expectation is outrageous in Nigeria, but it definitely isn't the case in the USA and the UK; contracts like this are expected to be reached under public bidding, with the necessary details of the bids available for scrutiny. That's the only way to avoid politicians from feather-bedding such contracts to enrich themselves - and even then one still occasionally has corruption scandals relating to the issuance of public contracts.

My concern here is why the government's participation should be required in these rail schemes to make them financially justifiable. There are basically two scenarios to consider.

1. The risk-adjusted expected return on investment is sufficiently high to attract private investors. In this case, why does the government need to be involved? Surely private businessmen wouldn't pass up such attractive financial opportunities if they existed. Thanks to the emergence of negative yields in most of the Western world, the recurring complaint in financial news sources like the FT, Bloomberg and Reuters is of investors desperately searching the globe for attractive places to put their money.

2. The expected ROI is too low to attract private interest. In that case, surely the government would be better off taking the same money, investing it in bonds and stocks, and using the greater return from that to fund its other programs.

The point to keep in mind with all such schemes is that there is a real opportunity cost involved in them, and it isn't sufficient to simply determine whether the investments can actually pay for themselves (though that is clearly a necessity). One must also determine that there aren't alternative investments to be made which could be more profitable - it isn't rational to put one's money into a scheme returning 6% per annum if an equally risky alternative returns 9%.

All of the things I've said here apply not just to this particular proposal, but also to the Lagos BRT, the proposed Lagos-Kano and Lagos-Calabar rail lines, etc. Too often in Nigeria the assumption is that government intervention is necessary for good things to happen, but the fact is that the rail networks of other countries weren't built out using government funds - the British and American railway booms of the 19th century were entirely private-sector driven, and that is in fact where famous names like the Vanderbilts, the Goulds and JP Morgan made most of their money. Even today most railway infrastructure in America, Britain and Japan are in the hands of fully private operators, so one has to ask what makes Nigeria's case so different.

omohayek:


God, you're a slowpoke. Is this what passes for an argument in whatever backwater you crawled out from? You bring no facts, no logical arguments whatsoever, just insult after insult, all to cover up the fact that you don't have the first clue what you're talking about. Let's face facts, you couldn't provide a reasonable argument if your very life depended on it, nitwit.

That's the problem with Nairaland; every opinionated semi-illiterate with a little data left on a cheap mobile plan is free to pollute the forum with ignorant nonsense. Even fools who can't even spell properly, let alone explain the efficient markets hypothesis or the CAPM model, are free to posture as if they had anything at all to add to a discussion.

Lols any finance grad knows efficient markets n capm model and other investment appraisal techniques ...funny u mention these things to justify ur dumb question.

Lemme repost them once again

#1- it makes no economic sense, if it did govt will NOT be involved .

Why will govt not be involved especially when a project makes economic sense? Do I need to explain that one to an Ivy League graduate? Like seriously??

#2- kano state govt should focus on rails LEADING TO SOUTHERN PORTS

Since you're obviously ignorant I attached a map of nigeria to reset your brain, look at that map and tell me how a STATE GOVT like kano in the far north can embark on an interstate railway network leading to port cities like lagos, calabar, ph??

Are u even aware the FG is embarking/construction on the kano-lagos rail is ongoing?

Like seriously like a prof once told me, the problem with nigeria isn't illiteracy or lack of exposure...it's deliberate ignorance.

A state govt is working on an INTRA-CITY rail network to make movement of goods and persons faster, safer and much more comfortable, you're here telling me a project which I can bet you have no facts about except what's posted here in a state i'm sure you've not been to doesn't make economic sense?


If it made economic sense GOVT WILL NOT BE INVOLVED? Yet u claim to have experience in the UK? A place where the city councils are "fully involved" in everything from simply granting approvals to partnering/contributing funds to projects?

FYI transportation is a critical element in business & social cycles especially in Africa which is still far behind in modernising this sector.

South Africa that has the most advanced rail network in Africa, it's publicly owned with few private rail companies, so have u even tried to find out whether the laws guiding nigeria's railway sector allow fully PRIVATE RAILWAY FIRMS to operate yet?

all these crap on efficient markets abi capm is to impress people who have no finance/investment background & is laughable...do u have the data to compute it? The govt n chinese investors that identified those routes doesn't your brain tell you they've carried out the necessary calculations & due-dilligence?


I've showed u why those two questions reek of illiteracy... 'm done with you.