LiberaDeus:


Its good that you have accepted the fact that Noahs ark is not scientific.

As for your personal experience. I understand how you feel. When I had my own strong conversion experience, I dropped some habits too. When you have an emotional conversion, the force of it can make you drop some habits. Its purely psychological. Not only Christians experience that.

Secular institutions achieve much harder feats. Think of being addicted to cocaine, that's much worse than lying addiction. But rehab centers use secular methods to achieve it over and over and over again.
My friend, people have epiphanies, eureka moments, turn around points etc in their lives and these moments are characterized by unusual emotional strength that leads to changing a lifestyle.

You have to consider something, you are using your subjective experience to determine a much much larger universal truth.
If two events occur, the first being that the acclaimed word of god is proven to be contradictory and false and the second being that you had a wonderful experience that you attributed to god.
Which one should you use to base your belief in god on?

Most people like you will choose the latter. But realistically that's wrong. A universal truth cannot be determined by subjective facts and feelings that's why I asked for empirical evidence. Evidence is the thing that should make any religion be chosen as the right one.

I didn't see how you came to the conclusion that I don't believe in Noah's Ark is unscientific.
By the way, I have never intended to prove to you that because anything not "scientific" is not possible. I and many others have had supernatural experiences that current knowledge in science cannot explain or reproduce. That's logical for someone who knows he/ she is dealing with God.

I also need to mention that I AND MANY OTHERS who have been freed from different addictions supernaturally DIDN'T NEED A REHAB CENTRE. You will talk about empirical evidence, but you will discard people's personal experiences as not true without any scientific basis. Yet you will be calling for scientific evidence. I studied a little science and I have not seen individual cases discarded when gathering data. Rather, it is several individual cases that are used to produce data.

You can deny your experience with God and call it "PURELY PSYCHOLOGICAL". Mine is a combination of spiritual, psychological and physical because God created the principles and laws that work in all these areas. Science only discovers them and I don't see how lack of discovery, better still, lack of capacity to discover or accept spiritual claims equals falsehood of such claims. [/colour]

If you know anything about fallacies, you should know that many of your conclusions and that of other atheists are assertions with faulty foundations:

- hasty generalizations (e.g "you Christians are lazy"

- appeal to ignorance: assuming your claim is correct because you've not been or cannot be proven wrong

- appeal to silence: making conclusions that God, the resurrection of Christ etc are not true because YOU have not seen evidence

- argumentum ad hominem: claiming a position is incorrect because of something about the person, rather than because of something about the position itself (e.g. Dr. Gary being a Christian apologist, therefore the result of his research is invalid) and so on.

I have noticed how common this is in atheists' arguments and, in fact, your continuous assertion that there is no God is fallacy judging by the standard you like to subject religious believes to and the game of atheists is to shift the burden of proof as if they also don't have a position they are maintaining.
THAT YOU HAVE PROOFS-- EVEN WHEN THEY ARE AUTHENTIC PROOFS- AGAINST SOME OTHER PEOPLE'S POSITIONS DOESN'T MAKE YOUR OWN POSITION VALID. SO YOU SHOULD DO BETTER JOB IN PROVIDING YOUR OWN EVIDENCE THAT, OF TRUTH, THERE IS NO GODAfter that you have all ground to condemn people who believe in God.

dblackninja:


Oh my good gracious tribalistic angry scared god!!! This is by no means an answer to my question to Pdb. HOW DID YOU KNOW GOD IS REAL ? Circumvent no more! The question is a no-brainer.

He is simply telling you that those who truly want evidence don't restrict themselves to what they already know(physical). That will be coming from conclusion to experiment. Only those who believe in an all knowing God can be justified doing that.

PDBonline:



I didn't see how you came to the conclusion that I don't believe in Noah's Ark is unscientific.
By the way, I have never intended to prove to you that because anything not "scientific" is not possible. I and many others have had supernatural experiences that current knowledge in science cannot explain or reproduce. That's logical for someone who knows he/ she is dealing with God.

Can you please provide one "supernatural" experience of yours, that defied scientific explanations? . Pls make it short.

PDBonline:

I also need to mention that I AND MANY OTHERS who have been freed from different addictions supernaturally DIDN'T NEED A REHAB CENTRE. You will talk about empirical evidence, but you will discard people's personal experiences as not true without any scientific basis. Yet you will be calling for scientific evidence. I studied a little science and I have not seen individual cases discarded when gathering data. Rather, it is several individual cases that are used to produce data.
.

If rehab centers can achieve what you claimed a god did, don't you think that it wasn't God in the first place?
Or ascribing such transformation to god is fraudulent?

PDBonline:

You can deny your experience with God and call it "PURELY PSYCHOLOGICAL". Mine is a combination of spiritual, psychological and physical because God created the principles and laws that work in all these areas. Science only discovers them and I don't see how lack of discovery, better still, lack of capacity to discover or accept spiritual claims equals falsehood of such claims. [/colour]
.

You're conflicting your points of arguments.
If you came forth to claim that you know the reason or cause of certain events, and you provided premises on which you based your claims.

On scientific investigation of these claims, based on your premises of proposition and other scientific principles, your claims were found to be untrue and inexistent.

How do you relate with that?

PDBonline:

If you know anything about fallacies, you should know that many of your conclusions and that of other atheists are assertions with faulty foundations:

- hasty generalizations (e.g "you Christians are lazy"

- appeal to ignorance: assuming your claim is correct because you've not been or cannot be proven wrong

- appeal to silence: making conclusions that God, the resurrection of Christ etc are not true because YOU have not seen evidence

- argumentum ad hominem: claiming a position is incorrect because of something about the person, rather than because of something about the position itself (e.g. Dr. Gary being a Christian apologist, therefore the result of his research is invalid) and so on..

You're guilty of what you're alleging here.

Using a microscopic number of atheists style of arguments or their basic understanding of atheism, to conclude on the comprehensive propositions of atheism, is nothing but cheer mental laziness.

PDBonline:

I have noticed how common this is in atheists' arguments and, in fact, your continuous assertion that there is no God is fallacy judging by the standard you like to subject religious believes to and the game of atheists is to shift the burden of proof as if they also don't have a position they are maintaining.
.

You folks claimed god exist. And base on the premises of your proposition, it's been found to be inexistent.

The burden of disproving the prove, of your falsehoods is squarely on you folk.

PDBonline:

THAT YOU HAVE PROOFS-- EVEN WHEN THEY ARE AUTHENTIC PROOFS- AGAINST SOME OTHER PEOPLE'S POSITIONS DOESN'T MAKE YOUR OWN POSITION VALID. SO YOU SHOULD DO BETTER JOB IN PROVIDING YOUR OWN EVIDENCE THAT, OF TRUTH, THERE IS NO GODAfter that you have all ground to condemn people who believe in God.

Until you're able to disprove, the prove of your falsehoods, the proves of atheists remain valid.

akintom:

Can you please provide one "supernatural" experience of yours, that defied scientific explanations? . Pls make it short.

How would her telling you a personal experience make any meaning to you since its not your experience? Do you think she cannot think for herself to know when something isnt coincidental or when it defies explanation? Like when someone has been jobless for over a year and within a week of prayer to God under guidance he receives 4million naira and then 2 million naira a week later and is now a ceo of his own business? Or when someone would come to God and be shown a dream where he is being led out of the bush by someone while picking and eating ripe palm fruits.

This someone whom he had not met but could describe and the person in detail and i had the same dream the same night where i was leading a group of men out of a bush and we were picking up ripe palm fruits. This was during a prayer guidance and the next morning i shared it with him over the phone and he was shocked and told me he had the same dream and described the person who was leading them out and it was me and even the cloth he said the person wore was in my wardrobe as one of my clothes. And that same week till date his business began to boom x 3 times. A business that was stagnant and he said he would often go home empty and on an empty stomach

If rehab centers can achieve what you claimed a god did, don't you think that it wasn't God in the first place?
Or ascribing such transformation to god is fraudulent?

Rehab centers cost money and take time. Gods deliverance is free and instantaneous AND PERMANENT! Rehabs offer no guarantees of permanence.

You're conflicting your points of arguments.
If you came forth to claim that you know the reason or cause of certain events, and you provided premises on which you based your claims.

On scientific investigation of these claims, based on your premises of proposition and other scientific principles, your claims were found to be untrue and inexistent.

How do you relate with that?

You are the one coflicted in such an ignorant manner since you assume everything must be scientific when science itself is still researching and still confused about a lot of things.

You're guilty of what you're alleging here.

She is not guilty of anything. All atheists do exactly what she said.

Using a microscopic number of atheists style of arguments or their basic understanding of atheism, to conclude on the comprehensive propositions of atheism, is nothing but cheer mental laziness.

Mental laziness is when you limit your scope of vision and brain use to only the natural while thinking that is all there is. A Christian believes the natural but also stretches their mind to think that there is more out there than the natural. Who between such people seems limited? A strictly natural thinker or a natural and spiritual thinker?

You folks claimed god exist. And base on the premises of your proposition, it's been found to be inexistent.

The burden of disproving the prove, of your falsehoods is squarely on you folk.

God has existed before your atheistic worldview was invented by man. The onus is on you who alleged that He does not exist to offer us proof to that effect. However the Pillar whom you lean o to assert that has itself not made such a statement...Has Science been able to disprove God? They are either still researching or in a worse confusion than when they first began. If your much loved science has been unable to achieve this then where are you getting your conclusions from? Is that not myopia? Is that not a lazy mind governed by Hasty Generalization as has been already pointed out?

Until you're able to disprove, the prove of your falsehoods, the proves of atheists remain valid.

Again you the disclaimer are the one to show your proof of No God. You say atheists have proof that there is no God. Show it!

akintom:

Can you please provide one "supernatural" experience of yours, that defied scientific explanations? . Pls make it short.

If rehab centers can achieve what you claimed a god did, don't you think that it wasn't God in the first place?
Or ascribing such transformation to god is fraudulent?

You're conflicting your points of arguments.
If you came forth to claim that you know the reason or cause of certain events, and you provided premises on which you based your claims.

On scientific investigation of these claims, based on your premises of proposition and other scientific principles, your claims were found to be untrue and inexistent.

How do you relate with that?

You're guilty of what you're alleging here.

Using a microscopic number of atheists style of arguments or their basic understanding of atheism, to conclude on the comprehensive propositions of atheism, is nothing but cheer mental laziness.

You folks claimed god exist. And base on the premises of your proposition, it's been found to be inexistent.

The burden of disproving the prove, of your falsehoods is squarely on you folk.


Until you're able to disprove, the prove of your falsehoods, the proves of atheists remain valid.

Just take a short time to study the link below then come back to examine your statements. We will understand ourselves better.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

PDBonline:

I didn't see how you came to the conclusion that I don't believe in Noah's Ark is unscientific.
By the way, I have never intended to prove to you that because anything not "scientific" is not possible. I and many others have had supernatural experiences that current knowledge in science cannot explain or reproduce. That's logical for someone who knows he/ she is dealing with God.

I also need to mention that I AND MANY OTHERS who have been freed from different addictions supernaturally DIDN'T NEED A REHAB CENTRE. You will talk about empirical evidence, but you will discard people's personal experiences as not true without any scientific basis. Yet you will be calling for scientific evidence. I studied a little science and I have not seen individual cases discarded when gathering data. Rather, it is several individual cases that are used to produce data.

You can deny your experience with God and call it "PURELY PSYCHOLOGICAL". Mine is a combination of spiritual, psychological and physical because God created the principles and laws that work in all these areas. Science only discovers them and I don't see how lack of discovery, better still, lack of capacity to discover or accept spiritual claims equals falsehood of such claims. [/colour]

If you know anything about fallacies, you should know that many of your conclusions and that of other atheists are assertions with faulty foundations:

- hasty generalizations (e.g "you Christians are lazy"

- appeal to ignorance: assuming your claim is correct because you've not been or cannot be proven wrong

- appeal to silence: making conclusions that God, the resurrection of Christ etc are not true because YOU have not seen evidence

- argumentum ad hominem: claiming a position is incorrect because of something about the person, rather than because of something about the position itself (e.g. Dr. Gary being a Christian apologist, therefore the result of his research is invalid) and so on.

I have noticed how common this is in atheists' arguments and, in fact, your continuous assertion that there is no God is fallacy judging by the standard you like to subject religious believes to and the game of atheists is to shift the burden of proof as if they also don't have a position they are maintaining.
THAT YOU HAVE PROOFS-- EVEN WHEN THEY ARE AUTHENTIC PROOFS- AGAINST SOME OTHER PEOPLE'S POSITIONS DOESN'T MAKE YOUR OWN POSITION VALID. SO YOU SHOULD DO BETTER JOB IN PROVIDING YOUR OWN EVIDENCE THAT, OF TRUTH, THERE IS NO GODAfter that you have all ground to condemn people who believe in God.

I don't need to come to a conclusion, you just have to give me a reason to believe it. You were the one who first claimed that science proves the biblical claims.
You brought out a link to show that Noahs ark story was being proven. I showed you that the link said the opposite.
The onus is still on you. Please bring out scientific proof concerning your biblical claims. If you can't then just roll back into the canopy of blind faith and stay there. I have a problem when you religious people try to use double standards. You want to use faith and science at the same time. But science and blind faith can't work together so kindly choose your method of observing truth cause I have chosen mine and it isn't blind faith.

Am happy you said that several individual cases are used to provide conclusions. The key word is several. Am not dismissing your experience. But your experience is just one out of many experiences and it is gonna be arrogant for you to place your experience above all others including Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus etc. In your mind now, because of your personal experience, your god is real and every other god is fake right?


The fallacies you talked about will be addressed now

1. Yes I know many lazy Christians. But I also know not all Christians are lazy. That statement wasn't meant to be accurate, just like you telling someone that he is crazy. You might not mean it in its entirety but you still use the word. We are humans and we can make such mistakes. Coming to the accurate description, your claim about Noahs flood was lazy because you posted an article and didn't bother to read it till the end. Such lazy claims do your argument no good.

2. Appeal to ignorance. Now I want to personally tell you that I have a flying horse in my backyard. Please don't doubt me because you can't prove that i am wrong. If you say that I am wrong, you are only appealing to ignorance since you don't know if I am right and you can't prove it.
Now how does my logic sound to you? Cool right
Back to reality, if I make such an extraordinary claim like having a flying horse in my backyard, then the burden of proof rests on me to prove it to you. If I can't prove it to you then there is no reason why you should take it as real. If you choose to disbelieve me after years of me failing to prove it to you then you are doing the right thing.


3. Appeal to silence. The same as above. I can tell you that in my village in Nigeria, just last week a man raised 500 dead people, walked on a river, healed every cripple in the general hospital, brought down fire from heaven, caused a solar eclipse, caused an earthquake, pulled crowds of up to 10000 people throughout etc. Will you believe that something like that happened in Nigeria last week and no one heard of it. You can't believe that because you know that things far less shocking than that attract crazy media attention. So won't it be stupid for me to claim that you disbelieving my fairy tale is a fallacy that appeals to silence?
In such a case, silence is impossible. That's the same with your Jesus, silence to the wonderful works described in the gospel is totally impossible especially during the Roman literary classical period. He exhausted quite alright but all those things didn't happen.

4. Ad hominem. There is no fallacy there because the position of Gary Habernas is very clear from the start. You were the one who tried to appeal to his authority and I told you his authority is a Christian authority not a universal one. What if I told you god doesn't exist because Richard Dawkins said so, won't that be stupid? For me to expect you to disbelieve your God because an avowed atheist said so.

The reasonable thing to do would be to present Dawkins ideas and arguments to you. Ideas and arguments don't have flesh,blood and spirit. They are logical constructs that can be dismantled or upheld.
You didn't do that. Instead of bringing Habernas ideas to the forum so we can dissect them and analyze them, you brought Habernas himself and appealed to his authority expecting me to bow down to a supposed scholar. Well I can't bow down to him but instead I dismissed him because his position is biased.

There was no ad hominem there, the only thing I did was to dismantle your appeal to authority fallacy. Next time please list out Habernas arguments and I will face them. Bring the arguments not the man.

LiberaDeus:


I don't need to come to a conclusion, you just have to give me a reason to believe it. You were the one who first claimed that science proves the biblical claims.
You brought out a link to show that Noahs ark story was being proven. I showed you that the link said the opposite.
The onus is still on you. Please bring out scientific proof concerning your biblical claims. If you can't then just roll back into the canopy of blind faith and stay there. I have a problem when you religious people try to use double standards. You want to use faith and science at the same time. But science and blind faith can't work together so kindly choose your method of observing truth cause I have chosen mine and it isn't blind faith.

Am happy you said that several individual cases are used to provide conclusions. The key word is several. Am not dismissing your experience. But your experience is just one out of many experiences and it is gonna be arrogant for you to place your experience above all others including Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus etc. In your mind now, because of your personal experience, your god is real and every other god is fake right?


The fallacies you talked about will be addressed now

1. Yes I know many lazy Christians. But I also know not all Christians are lazy. That statement wasn't meant to be accurate, just like you telling someone that he is crazy. You might not mean it in its entirety but you still use the word. We are humans and we can make such mistakes. Coming to the accurate description, your claim about Noahs flood was lazy because you posted an article and didn't bother to read it till the end. Such lazy claims do your argument no good.

2. Appeal to ignorance. Now I want to personally tell you that I have a flying horse in my backyard. Please don't doubt me because you can't prove that i am wrong. If you say that I am wrong, you are only appealing to ignorance since you don't know if I am right and you can't prove it.
Now how does my logic sound to you? Cool right
Back to reality, if I make such an extraordinary claim like having a flying horse in my backyard, then the burden of proof rests on me to prove it to you. If I can't prove it to you then there is no reason why you should take it as real. If you choose to disbelieve me after years of me failing to prove it to you then you are doing the right thing.


3. Appeal to silence. The same as above. I can tell you that in my village in Nigeria, just last week a man raised 500 dead people, walked on a river, healed every cripple in the general hospital, brought down fire from heaven, caused a solar eclipse, caused an earthquake, pulled crowds of up to 10000 people throughout etc. Will you believe that something like that happened in Nigeria last week and no one heard of it. You can't believe that because you know that things far less shocking than that attract crazy media attention. So won't it be stupid for me to claim that you disbelieving my fairy tale is a fallacy that appeals to silence?
In such a case, silence is impossible. That's the same with your Jesus, silence to the wonderful works described in the gospel is totally impossible especially during the Roman literary classical period. He exhausted quite alright but all those things didn't happen.

4. Ad hominem. There is no fallacy there because the position of Gary Habernas is very clear from the start. You were the one who tried to appeal to his authority and I told you his authority is a Christian authority not a universal one. What if I told you god doesn't exist because Richard Dawkins said so, won't that be stupid? For me to expect you to disbelieve your God because an avowed atheist said so.

The reasonable thing to do would be to present Dawkins ideas and arguments to you. Ideas and arguments don't have flesh,blood and spirit. They are logical constructs that can be dismantled or upheld.
You didn't do that. Instead of bringing Habernas ideas to the forum so we can dissect them and analyze them, you brought Habernas himself and appealed to his authority expecting me to bow down to a supposed scholar. Well I can't bow down to him but instead I dismissed him because his position is biased.

There was no ad hominem there, the only thing I did was to dismantle your appeal to authority fallacy. Next time please list out Habernas arguments and I will face them. Bring the arguments not the man.

1. My point is not to respond to Noah's ark but to the global flood. Noah's ark is just part of the story and that it hasn't been found is no proof that it didn't exist. What if at a point in history it had been destroyed?

2. Bringing Gary up was not my end but to quote the statement that shows who he was and you tried to discredit a respected researcher just because he is Christian. You ignored the fact that his work was based on the works of all manner of historians.

3. On the flying horse. If you say that, I will be should be blamed of Fallacy of appeal to common sense (incredulity) if I responded by saying it is unbelievable so it cannot be true- without attempting to check out your backyard.

That is even different from categorically stating that Your flying horde does not exist at all. If I tell people, "That horse DOES NOT EXIST(different from "It is not at the backyard" to be taken seriously, I must have come to your backyard and if I didn't see it there I must have made sure I checked other places in your house and elsewhere too-- because it is a flying horse we are talking about and I made a claim that it doesn't exist.

Otherwise I should just agree that I am restrained by time and capacity to do such a search. In that case, it is my inability to verify the claim that is problematic and makes my claim a fallacy.

The God of the Christian is revealed in the Bible to those who read relying on the help of the Holy Spirit for clarification while acknowledging their tendency to get it wrong for lack of capacity to comprehend all about God in one lifetime.

This is where you missed it altogether- you decided to throw away your believe to accept as fact something you cannot prove. You sound like you've once experienced God in a personal way but now you claim your experience wasn't real, theories are more real than your experience now.
It's not too late to come back home. Your Father is still waiting for your return. Seriously speaking. Arguments aside

PDBonline:

1. My point is not to respond to Noah's ark but to the global flood. Noah's ark is just part of the story and that it hasn't been found is no proof that it didn't exist. What if at a point in history it had been destroyed?

2. Bringing Gary up was not my end but to quote the statement that shows who he was and you tried to discredit a respected researcher just because he is Christian. You ignored the fact that his work was based on the works of all manner of historians.

3. On the flying us. If you say that, I will be should be blamed of Fallacy of appeal to common sense (incredulity) if I responded by saying it is unbelievable so it cannot be true- without attempting to check out your backyard.

That is even different from categorically stating that Your flying us does not exist at all. If I tell people, "That horse DOES NOT EXIST(different from "Is not at the backyard" to be taken seriously, I must have come to your backyard and if I didn't see it there I must have made sure I checked other places in your house and elsewhere too-- because it is a flying horse we are talking about and I made a claim that it doesn't exist.

Otherwise I should just agree that I am restrained by time and capacity to do such a search. In that case, it is my inability to verify the claim that is problematic and makes my claim a fallacy.
The God of the Christian is revealed in the Bible to those who read relying on the help of the Holy Spirit for clarification while acknowledging their tendency to get it wrong for lack of capacity. This is where you missed it altogether- you decided to throw away your believe to accept as fact something you cannot prove. You sound like you've once experienced God in a personal way but now your experience is no more real, theories are more real than your experience.
You got swindled by your enemy the devil and you fell for it. It's not to late to come back home. Your Father is still waiting for your return. Seriously speaking. Arguments aside

1. Concerning Noahs ark, you are going to believe it by faith and wait till 20000 years to when it shall be proven. I have no issue with a global flood theory, but the noahs ark story is clearly a myth that developed from it. If you are going to be patient till Noahs ark story is proven and you are even going to believe before hand then why don't you believe that Alexander the great was descended from the gods and Julius Caesar was a god also. Why don't you be generous with your beliefs and accept every claim made in the world by faith.

2. You didn't bring his argument but his statement. You wanted me to accept a claim because of one mans statement. That is clearly appealing to authority, why don't you accept there is no god because Richard Dawkins said so . In these cases please bring the person's arguments in your own words. Mind you, countless of debates have gone on between Christians and atheists where both sides recorded victors. So using a debate victory to prove a fact as important as the existence of a particular creator is not very beneficial.

3. Now coming to the horse analogy. You claim there is a god somewhere, now did you say that god is in your backyard?
You happen to know this god, you can't show him to unbelievers. I can accept that you can't show him since you claim he is too big to be seen. But at least you can show his powers can't you.
If I claim that my flying horse exists but is invisible, but I also claim that the horse has endowed me with supernatural powers of flying myself, then you don't even need to see the horse, you can start evaluating my so called flying powers.
You Christians Will never show us god, fine
At least show us the power of your god. You guys are 2 billion and counting in number, we must be able to observe something supernatural about you Christians. By the way, its written in your gospel that those who believe will do greater things than Jesus.


The god of the Christian is not revealed to those who read. The god of the Christian is revealed to those who believe that he exists without verification and those who believe that his holy spirit exists.
Please is that not fraudulent?
If a Muslim tells you that the Quran is the most holy book in the world and has the ability to reveal Allah to you and goes ahead to tell you to try it and see if you won't believe. If you are about to read the Quran and suddenly he tells you that in order to see you must believe everything he told you first. Would you see that as honest.
How can you make a claim about something and when one is about to verify the claim you now tell the person that he must believe the claim first, then what's the use of verifying.

The funny thing about Christianity is that even if one decides to close his mind and believe, if the person doesn't see proof and he starts doubting, he is urged to keep on believing because the moment you lose your faith you will never see the power of god.
Whatever thing that has been revealed to you will not be disputed by me, your experiences are real but they are only real in your head. They are purely psychological.

I used to be a devout Christian but I followed the path of truth and reason and I discovered that Christianity is a man made religion built on baseless claims and Jewish mythology. I don't believe in your devil the same way I don't believe in your god.

N.B I have experienced the power of the so called holy spirit and all sorts of mysterious feelings. They are not proof of what is real and not, they are only psychological and subjective. People of other faiths experience them.

damogul:


How would her telling you a personal experience make any meaning to you since its not your experience? Do you think she cannot think for herself to know when something isnt coincidental or when it defies explanation? Like when someone has been jobless for over a year and within a week of prayer to God under guidance he receives 4million naira and then 2 million naira a week later and is now a ceo of his own business? Or when someone would come to God and be shown a dream where he is being led out of the bush by someone while picking and eating ripe palm fruits.

This someone whom he had not met but could describe and the person in detail and i had the same dream the same night where i was leading a group of men out of a bush and we were picking up ripe palm fruits. This was during a prayer guidance and the next morning i shared it with him over the phone and he was shocked and told me he had the same dream and described the person who was leading them out and it was me and even the cloth he said the person wore was in my wardrobe as one of my clothes. And that same week till date his business began to boom x 3 times. A business that was stagnant and he said he would often go home empty and on an empty stomach









Rehab centers cost money and take time. Gods deliverance is free and instantaneous AND PERMANENT! Rehabs offer no guarantees of permanence.







You are the one coflicted in such an ignorant manner since you assume everything must be scientific when science itself is still researching and still confused about a lot of things.








She is not guilty of anything. All atheists do exactly what she said.



Mental laziness is when you limit your scope of vision and brain use to only the natural while thinking that is all there is. A Christian believes the natural but also stretches their mind to think that there is more out there than the natural. Who between such people seems limited? A strictly natural thinker or a natural and spiritual thinker?






God has existed before your atheistic worldview was invented by man. The onus is on you who alleged that He does not exist to offer us proof to that effect. However the Pillar whom you lean o to assert that has itself not made such a statement...Has Science been able to disprove God? They are either still researching or in a worse confusion than when they first began. If your much loved science has been unable to achieve this then where are you getting your conclusions from? Is that not myopia? Is that not a lazy mind governed by Hasty Generalization as has been already pointed out?







Again you the disclaimer are the one to show your proof of No God. You say atheists have proof that there is no God. Show it!

Mr damogul,

May i assume this time, that you're interested in looking, albeit intelligently into the issue of god idea and religious beliefs.

With all sense of modesty, any attempt at rathole or personal attacks from your end, shall end my engagement with you. You equally have such rights, if you so choose to activate it.

To have a meaningful discussion, let's start this way:

*do you believe a "personal god" exist?

*if yes, how shall you describe a personal god?

*by what means can you prove to me, the existence of a personal god.

PDBonline:


Just take a short time to study the link below then come back to examine your statements. We will understand ourselves better.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

LiberaDeus has done justice to your link.

I will appreciate if you could engage me, based on your understanding of god idea and religious beliefs.

You can pick any topic from the issues i raised in my last response to you.

I guess we can have a meaningful discussion from there.

damogul:


You do realize how silly you sound. You asked for a miraculous event so you can scientifically disprove it and it has been offered you next you start asking irrelevant questions while ignoring the first answer you requested for. If you have nothing better to do then please go and give and do some shopping for your wife assuming you have one.

If am correct, did you claim to be some kind of pastor or you're a pastor?

I have since established my propositions on the most visible theists on NL.

They fall into one of these classes:

1. those who knew god idea and religious beliefs, can't be debated sincerely on the premise of reasons. These ones just read threads without commenting.

2. those who knew no 1, but are too emotive to ignore the demystification of their Idol. They leave meaningless outburst and never read the thread again.

3. Those who are ignorant of no 1, and are infected with extreme ignorance of their religion and basic intelligence, required to put up meaningful arguments, in defense of their claims that are largely based on assumptions.

4. Those who see themselves as defender of god, but are too arrogant to accept the fact that, human beings hold the right, to reject any form of beliefs anytime they so which.

5. Those who have been chronically conditioned in their minds, to the point that hyper-inhibitory and antagonistic impulse, to intelligent thinking, is activated, immediately they read or perceive any contending views on their god idea.

Your sheepmaniacs deserves my sympathy and empathy.

PDBonline:
1. God is MY Father and MY God. I know Him personally

As someone who has a "personal" relationship with a God who knows all things, can you tell me the number I'm thinking about right now?

Seun:

As someone who has a "personal relationship" with a God who knows all things, can you tell me the number I'm thinking about right now?

na waooooo

seun and topics on atheism be like

damogul:


You do realize how silly you sound. You asked for a miraculous event so you can scientifically disprove it and it has been offered you next you start asking irrelevant questions while ignoring the first answer you requested for. If you have nothing better to do then please go and give and do some shopping for your wife assuming you have one.

*** stop lying. Anybody can form stories and share them as evidence of the supernatural. Remember you are known for forming FALSE stories just to promote your God. You lied that you once raised a dead person back to life. You lied that you healed a HIV person who is also a nairalander by praying for the person over the phone. You lied that you also healed another nairalanders of her fibroid over the phone. Now you are formulating more lies just to promote your God beliefs. ***