₦airaland Forum

kingzizzy:
I didnt say Adebayo ran From Govt House, I said he didnt sleep there because he thought the Northerners might kill him like they did Fajuyi.

As for Fajuyi, wether he was killed because of Ironsi or not, the point is that he should have never been killed. I want see more Yorubas condemn the Northerners for killing their Governor rather than make excuses for them that it was because of Ironsi.

As I said before, Adebayo was a good man and officer, I just wish he had stood up to the north on behalf of his Yoruba people.

allrightsir:
Try and read your history instead of half education by propaganda.

"Ojukwu's stage" as you call it is 3 million dead and enduring pyschological damage that endures 50 years after the last bullet was fired!

Ojukwu was warned by his own generals that he couldn't win the war, he went ahead and 3 million died.....in vain!!

Awolowo knew he couldn't fight a war because there were very few Yorubas in the army at the time so he reluctantly agreed to partner with Gowon rather than kill his people for a war he can't win.


A smart man knows when to pick his battles. A light weight does not go to the ring with a heavy weight just to prove he is brave, the result is brain damage.

kingzizzy:
My only criticism of him was that as a signatory to the Aburi agreement, he should have spoken up for the western Region when Gowon broke the Agreement by dissolving the 4 Regions and creating 12 states. General Adebayo was senior to Gowon. It is unfortunate that he, along with the Yoruba nation, just could never stand up to Northerners. Adebayo, as Military Governor of the Western Region did not sleep in Government House because he was scared that he might be killed like Fajuyi. A Yoruba man who could not sleep in his official residence in his own land out of fright of the Northerners!

Tufiakwa!

shukuokukobambi:
You should ask who stood to lose more. I always say you guys think with your fists rather than your head that's why you missed this wisdom from Jesus Christ

Luke 14:31-32 KJV
Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? [32] Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.

A sensible general will avoid a war he stood to lose but then, we're talking about the eternal chest beaters here...

kingzizzy:
At least Ojukwu fought 3 years before running away. Compare that to Adebayo, Ogundipe and Obasunjo. 3 Yoruba military leaders who surrendered to Northerners not only without a fight, but without an atom of protest.

They should have tried fighting to at least get to Ojukwus stage.

Olu317:
Have you forgotten that LATE CHIEF NNAMDI AZIKWE SIDED WITH THE MILITARY JUNTA DURING THE CIVIL WAR OF 1967-1970? IBOS ARE QUITE FUNNY. WHY DO YOU IBOS ALWAYS SKIP THE DARK PART OF YOUR HISTORY DURING THE NIGERIA'S CIVIL WAR? EHN?

allrightsir:
this is where you get it wrong, there is a difference between being "cornered by 5 guys" and "taking a fight to 5 guys". Ojukwu wasn't in that position, he was driven by ego and pride, he may have been cornered by 5 guys, but they weren't fighting him...he decided to fight them, please do not rewrite history. Like I said, his own generals warned him the time wasn't right and he couldn't win....please for God's sake...read your history!!!

As far as Nigeria being better, I never said we were but Nigeria and the east are more divided as a result of the war. It was a foolhardy war that acheived nothing and set both sides back. A smart man would have waited, put his people in strategic positions, make sure you can achieve the aims then strike out. It is the same thing kanu is doing now.


I have no problem with Biafra trying to seceede, but if you fail, please don't blame others, your leaders knew the risks. Awolowo knew the risks and determined the odds of success wasn't worth the potential lives lost. You say he was a coward, I say he was a responsible leader who cared for his people and 40 years later we can see the result....his people are not the ones bearing lasting physchological scars that losing 3 million of your brothers and sisters will do to any tribe!!!!

kingzizzy:
My only criticism of him was that as a signatory to the Aburi agreement, he should have spoken up for the western Region when Gowon broke the Agreement by dissolving the 4 Regions and creating 12 states. General Adebayo was senior to Gowon. It is unfortunate that he, along with the Yoruba nation, just could never stand up to Northerners. Adebayo, as Military Governor of the Western Region did not sleep in Government House because he was scared that he might be killed like Fajuyi. A Yoruba man who could not sleep in his official residence in his own land out of fright of the Northerners!

Tufiakwa!

laudate:
And this is my own prayer for you...

kingzizzy:
Azikiwe initially supported Biafra wholeheartedly at first. It was only in the later part that he switched sides, typical politician

Olu317:
OJUKWU WAS AUTOCRATIC AND TEMPERAMENTAL. THIS WAS A GOOD QUALITY OF A GREAT LEADER .LATE CHIEF NNMADI AZIKWE SAW THE MOTIVE OF OJUKWU AND THE MAN WENT TO THE WINNING SIDE . LEARN FROM THAT MY DEAR. THERE IS ALWAYS THE RIGHT TIME TO STRIKE ONE'S ENEMY. AND NOT TAKING A RISK GLARINGLY LEADING TO A DEAD END.... I HOPE YOU PEOPLE ARE READY FOR YOUR AGITATION.... I HOPE INDEED

allrightsir:
I'm not going to argue with you as your mind is made up and nothing anyone can say will make a difference. Nobody is arguing with a people's right to self determination but sometimes you have to accept when you made a bad strategic decision. if Gowon was just going to allow Biafra to leave without firing a shot, why bother with Aburi accord? Get real!!!!! if you want to blame someone, blame Ojukwu. There are 2 ways to seceede, by peacefully by negotiation of forcefully, Ojukwu chose the forceful route and your people paid for it, it was reckless of him. Please stop hiding behind this he fired 1st shot nonsense, why was he stockpiling weapons if he didn't expect a war?

Make up your mind, you are the same people that complained when Obasanjo peacefully ceded Bakassi to Cameroon but forget Cameroun spent years fighting peacefully for it through established legal channels, if they declared war on Nigeria or tried to annexxe it forcefully they would have lost and people will have died, because their army is no match for Nigeria's. There are ways to do things!!!!!

The reason why people sometimes find it difficult at times to sympathize with the East is the blame game, at least accept responsibility for your tactical errors!!!! The same mostakes you made in 1967 is the same mistakes you are making now with IPOB and the result will be the same, people will die and nothing will happen, you will still be in Nigeria. If you don't accept your mistakes, you will continue repeating them.


if you had declared Biafra and South South decided to seceede, would you have just allowed them to just go? Stop all the hypocrisy!!!

kingzizzy:
Ojukwu was authocratic and tempermental? All Military rulers are that way, thats the nature if their training. Its what they stand for that matters. Ojukwu stood for the independence of his people from the colonial creation called Nigeria and just that alone endeared him to his people.There is no winning side in Nigeria, the country is still as divided and messed up as the day Ojukwu declared Biafra which proves that Ojukwu was right to try and take his people in a different direction away from the failed state if Nigeria.

scholes23:
as a matter of fact, there's nothing good about you to be seen. The only thing I can see is a

kingzizzy:
Ojukwu was a man of peace. Despite being senior to Gowon and great risk to his life, he went to Aburi to get peace. Gowon made peace impossible by breaking the agreement he signed in Ghana. By announcing the dissolution of the 4 Regions, Gowon destroyed the structural arrangement of Nigeria, forcing Ojukwu to secede. Ojukwu did all he could do for peace. The reality is that there were only two choices, 'accept domination or war'. Everybody except Ojukwu chose northern domination. As an Igbo man, Im proud of Ojukwu for not going down without a fight .

....Those were the words of the Governor to his strategic committee..."Nothing can frighten the professional soldiers more than the sight of civilian masses confronting them. They will kill them no doubt, but would soon be tired. I have brought down to Enugu, thousands of civilians from all over the republic. The aim is to throw them in waves against the enemy, who would thereby be confused and frightened by the prospect of mowing down thousands of civilians and incurring world condemnation."

So that was the aim of the Governor, I said to myself. He did not care; human lives did not matter as long as it suited his objectives. I shuddered and grieved inwardly. Some people were given the charge of deploying the masses of civilians now assembled in the field of Enugu university campus.... none of them had been told why they were brought to Enugu. It was not at all easy to organise the movement of such enormous crowds. Most of them had been without food for over twenty-four hours...

They were loaded into lorries, given a pound each and told to they would have to kill, reap and eat, wherever they found themselves.... Nothing much was heard of the hordes of people sent out...

As far as I was concerned, the very idea of sending unarmed and innocent civilians to be slaughtered was heinous and considerably destroyed my respect for the Governor, as a human being and as a leader...
https://books.google.com.ng/booksid=9ISrAgAAQBAJ&pg=PR1&lpg=PR1&dq=ntieyong+akpan+civil+war+secession&source=bl&ots=IZxeVEixXE&sig=Js86khEQ_z0_Gk5qb2ZKjorE98&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjGi_zbpcjSAhXHqxoKHfFtDKwQ6AEIHjAB#v=onepage&q=ntieyong%20akpan%20civil%20war%20secession&f=false

allrightsir:
I'm not going to argue with you as your mind is made up and nothing anyone can say will make a difference. Nobody is arguing with a people's right to self determination but sometimes you have to accept when you made a bad strategic decision. if Gowon was just going to allow Biafra to leave without firing a shot, why bother with Aburi accord? Get real!!!!! if you want to blame someone, blame Ojukwu. There are 2 ways to seceede, by peacefully by negotiation of forcefully, Ojukwu chose the forceful route and your people paid for it, it was reckless of him. Please stop hiding behind this he fired 1st shot nonsense, why was he stockpiling weapons if he didn't expect a war?

Make up your mind, you are the same people that complained when Obasanjo peacefully ceded Bakassi to Cameroon but forget Cameroun spent years fighting peacefully for it through established legal channels, if they declared war on Nigeria or tried to annexxe it forcefully they would have lost and people will have died, because their army is no match for Nigeria's. There are ways to do things!!!!!

The reason why people sometimes find it difficult at times to sympathize with the East is the blame game, at least accept responsibility for your tactical errors!!!! The same mistakes you made in 1967 is the same mistakes you are making now with IPOB and the result will be the same, people will die and nothing will happen, you will still be in Nigeria. If you don't accept your mistakes, you will continue repeating them.

if you had declared Biafra and South South decided to secede, would you have just allowed them to just go? Stop all the hypocrisy!!!

kingzizzy:
This isnt about argument, this is about what the history books tell us. History cant be twisted because all of it has already happend.

Starting with the overthrow of Ironsi, there was a 6 months period where thousands of Easterners, men, wimen and Children were being massacred all over Nigeria particularly in the North. With the disappearance of Ironsi, Ojukwu supported that the next highest ranking officer of the time, Brigadier Ogundipe should take over. The Northerners refused and installed Gowon who was junior to Ojukwu as head of state. Over 50,000 Easterners were killed, millions fled back home. The people of Eastern Nigeria besieged Ojukwu to pull them out of Nigeria since they were no longer safe in that country. With tensions mounting, a meeting was arranged on neutral grounds in Aburi Ghana. After 2 days of negotiations, Ojukwu and gowon signed the documents. The agreement provided that Ojukwu would recognise Gowon as head of state and accept 'one Nigeria'. But in return, Gowon was not allowed to change or make any far reaching decision on the 4 Regional structure of Nigeria unless all 4 Regional Military Governors agreed.

Barely 5 months after this agreement was signed, Gowon broke this agreement by abolishing the 4 Regions and creating 12 states without informing anyone. This was the start of 'divide and rule' the Northerners have used to dominate Nigeria to this day

With the Aburi agreement broken and the Eastern Region abolished, Ojukwu had only two choices. Accept Northern domination or seek independence. Ojukwu chose the latter. There was nothing like negotiating secession, not with Nothern Nigeria.

If you must blame Ojukwu for causing the war by seceding, then you must first blame Gowon for breaking the Aburi agreement that forced Ojukwu to secede. You have to be fair to Ojukwu, he didnt get up one morning and declare Biafra for no reason. Ojukwu only started stockpiling weapons after he had declared Biafra. Ojukwu never declared war on anybody. Gowon felt it was his duty to keep Nigeria one and Ojukwu felt it was his duty to protect his people.

At the end of the day, Nigeria is still the illegal colonial creation of the white man. Hausa/Igbo/Yoruba never agreed to come together for 'one Nigeria'. We were all forced together against our will by the British. That unholy union is still what Igbos have been fighting to get out of to this day.

Why should an Igbo man be negotiating or asking for his freedom frim Nigeria if he never agreed to be part of Nigeria in the first place? Makes no sense.

Thats why IPOB are right in what they are doing, they are protesting their illegal inclusion into Nigeria by Lugard in 1914.


Any union kept together by the barrel of gun rather than the free will of the people is bound to end in disaster. That is the story of Nigeria so far.


By the way, if Igbos achieve Biafra and any.of the minorities which to secede tomorow, they are free to do so. Igbos have no historical record of holding anyone against their will like Nigeria has

kingzizzy:
My only criticism of him was that as a signatory to the Aburi agreement, he should have spoken up for the western Region when Gowon broke the Agreement by dissolving the 4 Regions and creating 12 states. General Adebayo was senior to Gowon. It is unfortunate that he, along with the Yoruba nation, just could never stand up to Northerners. Adebayo, as Military Governor of the Western Region did not sleep in Government House because he was scared that he might be killed like Fajuyi. A Yoruba man who could not sleep in his official residence in his own land out of fright of the Northerners!
Tufiakwa!

laudate:
Is that all? _mtcheew...

laudate:
You like arguing blindly, sha. Er...point of correction. Ojukwu was definitely not a man of peace. After Aburi, there was a need to translate the agreements reached at Aburi, into law. So Gowon promulgated Decree 8 which gave Ojukwu over 80% of his demands, despite opposition from high-ranking technocrats in the civil service. Gowon in fact, tried to give legal backing to most of the agreements reached at Aburi, by enacting Decree 8.

If Ojukwu had been a man of peace, he would have accepted that agreement to prevent further conflict, and gone back at a later date to negotiate for more, like the Israelis did, when they wanted their own home state.

If Ojukwu was a man of peace, he would have prevented further bloodshed by listening to Zik, Adebayo and other African leaders. If Ojukwu was a man of peace, he would not have led his people to a war he could not win, knowing fully well he did not have enough weapons to prosecute that war.

If Ojukwu was a man of peace, he would not have sent unarmed civilians to their death on the battlefield, against heavily armed federal soldiers, in Enugu. Don't take my word for it though. Read pg 95 - 96 of The Struggle for Secession, 1966-1970: A Personal Account of the Nigerian Civil War, written by Ntieyong U. Akpan, the former Chief Secretary to the defunct Government of Biafra who later became the Pro Chancellor of the University of Nigeria. in it, he said;



Read that book before you come back here to tell me that Ojukwu was a man of peace. Would a man of peace use his own people as cannon fodder, for the enemy?

laudate:
Read that book before you come back here to tell me that Ojukwu was a man of peace. Would a man of peace use his own people as cannon fodder, for the enemy?

kingzizzy:
In Madiebos book, he debunks all that. But lets assume it did happen.

The Nigerian Army should never shoot unarmed people. Anyone telling you that Soldiers are allowed to shoot unarmed people isnt telling you the truth. It is actually murder.

To this day, the Nigerian Army are still shooting unarmed IPOB anyway so nothing has changed.

kingzizzy:
You are listening to too much Yoruba propaganda. If Ojukwu was not a man of peace, he would not have gone to Aburi in the first place.

But he went. An agreement was reach and signed. When they went back home, Gowon started deciding which percentage to give Ojukwu? What is that? How can someone sign an agreement then decide what percentage to implement? When you sign an agreement, you implement it 100% or dont sign at all!

If Gowon felt that Aburi should be renegotiated, he should have recovened another meeting with all parties to ammend the existing contract. But to sign an agreement and start deciding the percentage to implement was pure foolishness on the part of Gowon and an insult to Ojukwu.

If Ojukwu had accepted 80% like you said, what would have stopped Gowon coming back next week to say it is now 60%?

No matter what percentage Ojukwu accepted or didnt accept, the fact that Gowon was going to abolish the 4 Regions and creste 12 states anyway made peace impossible. That singular act by Gowon is what led to war.

When people say Ojukwu led his people in a war he could not win, I laugh. Ojukwu was in the best position to win the war. He had the man power and the Oil money. Had British Warships not blockaded Biafra preventing Ojukwu from selling Oil and importing arms, Ojukwu would have won. Britain won the war for Nigeria by blockading Biafra.

Ojukwu fought a war to liberate his people from Hausa-Fulani controlled Nigeria. He may not have succeded but the fact that he tried where all other gave up is why his people respect him. Nobody said freedom is cheap, it costs a lot of lives to achieve

scholes23:
Form all you've said, you haven't made sense

laudate:
What a contradiction! In one breath you said that the "Nigerian Army never shoots unarmed people." In the next breath, you claimed that "Nigerian Army are still shooting people up to this day." Which one is it? What do you want us to believe? Are you saying that Ntieyong Udo Akpan who was Chief Secretary and Head of Service in the Government of Biafra, then later became the Pro Chancellor of the University of Nigeria, and finally, Pro-chancellor of the University of Benin in 1980, was lying??

kingzizzy:
Dont change what I said. I said that the Nigerian Army "should" never shoot unarmed people.

It is irrelevant what My NU Akpan said in his book about Ojukwu sendig unarmed people to face the Nigerian Army.

Lets take the worst case scenario. Lets assume that indeed Ojukwu did send unarmed civilians to face the Nigerian Army. Did anyone tell you it is the job of the Army to shoot unarmed people? There is no National Army or Soldier that is mandated to shoot unarmed people, infact, they are not even allowed to shoot unarmed enemy soldiers. This is what separates the Army and a terrorist organisation. Terrorist organisations dont care who the kill, the Army should care.

So if indeed what Mr Apkan said is true, it only goes to show that the Nigerian Army commited murder and that the Biafrans were right to defend themselves from such an uncivilised Army.

It also goes to show the Nigerian Army and its long history of killing unarmed people, something they are not allowed to do.

laudate:
Nah, all I quoted to you are facts which are already in public domain. If Gowon gave at least 80% of what was agreed upon at Aburi, and Ojukwu had accepted it then, it would have shown that Ojukwu was a man of peace who was ready to do everything to avert a war.

You cannot second-guess Gowon by claiming he would have offered 60%. Were you in his mind?

Gowon did not just wake up and decide to abolish the 4 regions. Ojukwu had contravened various laws, and in blatant disregard of the authorities, had seized federal govt assets in the East and started stockpiling weapons! He ignored all their warnings. Sanctions were imposed on his region to force him to see reason. He disregarded them. Did he expect Gowon and the members of the SMC to clap for him after that? Gowon had to use other means to weaken Ojukwu's position, hence the creation of states.

If Ojukwu had not been intransigent, the creation of states would not have happened!

kingzizzy:
Nigerians are funny people. It is only a Nigerian that will see red and call it orange.

There is a binding agreement that was signed sealed. You have not yet called out Gowon for not living up to his end of the deal, you are calling out Ojukwu for not accepting a reduced version of the deal? I laugh in Igbo

So if you sign a contract with a contractor to build you a house, the contractor later comes back to tell you that he can only build 80% of the house despite a signed agreement being in place, what happens?

You will accept a house built 80%?

Well thats what you expected Ojukwu to do

I wonder what you would have said if it was Ojukwu who said he could only implement 80% of his end of the Aburi deal? You would have been shouting and blaming Ojukwu for causing war by going back on a signed deal.

The simple truth of the matter is that the North wanted political and economic control of Nigeria and they were not about to let Aburi or anything stop them from from implementing 'divide and rule' that would give them what they want.

The only thing the North never counted on was that Igbos were not going to take it laying down.

laudate:
So what NU Akpan a well-respected leader who was part of the inner caucus of the Biafran govt said is now 'irrelevant'? Simply because it does not conform to your warped perspective?

Can you just read the drivel you wrote up there? What kind of leader sends unarmed civilians out against an armed contingent of soldiers that are trained to kill? Isn't it the job of any leader to protect his own people? So you do not see anything wrong in what Ojukwu did??!

What the Nigerian Army did or did not do, does not change the fact that it is morally wrong, totally reprehensible and unconscionable to send unarmed civilians who did not know what was going on, to the battlefield,unarmed and unprotected. What kind of a leader does that??!

kingzizzy:
Stop twisting what I said. I didnt say Mr Apkan was irrelevant, I said what he said in his book about the unarmed civilians is irrelevant.What knd of Army shoots unarmed people? There is no Army in the world trained or authorised to kill unarmed people, they are trained to kill armed combatant enemies. The rules of engagement prevent the Army from shooting unarmed people.

So it doesnt matter if it was Mickey Mouse or Ojukwu who sent the unarmed civilians against the Nigerian Army. If the unarmed civilians were killed, it is murder.

In civilised countries, any member of the armed forces who shoots or kills an unarmed person without good reason will face a tribunal and if found guilty, will face anything from a death sentence to years of jail time or dismissal.

So Akpan actually destroyed the reputation of the Nigerian Army, exposing them as terrorists from 50 years ago.

Funny thing is that the Nigerian Army is still denying killing unarmed civilians to this day.

I think the Nigerian Army should hold a press conference and let the world know that they support the killing of unarmed civilians, that way, the international community, IPOB and other civil liberty organisation can know what they are up against