₦airaland Forum

Right Frm start we r taught theories, speculations, , ideas of other people. ...we never get to work with our hands practically. ....
@the end we are given examinations which are so tough bt cant help solve real life problems.
(I stand to be corrected) examination has never bin d true test of knowledge.

U can't be employed to work in any medical institution as a surgeon with paper certificate without practical housemanship.

Degrees/certificate are "Receipts" evidence of school fees you paid. Nigeria is like this because our emphasis on degrees/certificates is second to our believe system. There are a lot of things the school cannot teach you, the passive nature of our education system does not equals the 21 century of work place.

kinibigdeal:
I will start by asking, can experience (with no educational background) make up for a lack of degree, or does a degree provide something that experience cannot? Is one more valuable than the other? Here lies the argument.

I will say the two argument depends on the spectrum you are viewing ir or rather the side of the fence you are sitting, this issue can be personal and most times emotional.

VIEW POINTS

I have seen people with many years of applicable work experience but no degree, and i have also seen multiple candidate's with degree but with no single work experience. Which of the two is now moew valuable to a coy?

To buttress my point, in a certain year there was an heavy shake up in a certain financial institution in lagos affecting a lot of experienced employer. What led to the shake up? Many of their senior staffs were moving closer to their retirement stage, and the bank knew the situation of the economy then was not conducive for a payoff, they strategized and came up with the idea of hiring a consultant to carry out a thorough investigation on all their experienced staffs. The investigation carried out reveals that many of their experienced staffs had no degree but a forged certificate. However, many of this staffs are the core strength of that financial institution with position ranging from risk, strategics and planning, procurement etc. Now the question? If those staffs with no traceable degree could hold sensitive position for that duration, of what benefit is a degree or paper qualification to performance?

Do you know that the founder of leadway insurance started with no degree (i stand corrected)? Do you know that FCMB started in same manner? The founder of a famous indiginous construction company in Lagos started with no degree (name withheld) and the coy is still waxing strong after over 20years. If that founder (with no degree but experience) applied for a job position in either Julius Berger, G-Kappa, D'Alberto etc will he qualify or be employeable? However, the question is followed by endless responses debating the issue. Obviously, there are specific cases where the question is mute.

TRUTH

Regardless of personal preference, what quality does a degree holder possess that an experience person(with no degree) does not have. Our employers will say -

1. A proven ability to analyze problem, conduct research and produce solutions
2. A proven ability to learn complex, difficult subject matter
3. Proof of intelligence
4. Better interpersonal skills
5. More credible qualifications

BUT I DISAGREE

Can we conclude that a person with experience does not possess all that? Are those with degree consistent with all those requirements? This is my root frustration with employers with a defined job requirements and how they will continue to miss out on a large pool of experience candidate's with no degree.

CONCLUSIONS

If you think a degree holder is better than a person with experience but no degree, then i say, bring a PhD holder in mechanical engineer (if any) and a road side mechanics for a presentation. The PhD holder may prevail with 'Smart terms and Linguistics' but the road side mechanic will thrill the audience with 'practical methodologies'.

This your argument is very lame and annoying!!! Do you think that if every graduate had exhausted their schooling years gathering experiences, do you think they wouldn't have gathered enough for any job degree is very important because it gives you a better knowledge to things related to and things unrelated to your area of specialty. please,don't argue something of this sort again.

kinibigdeal:
I will start by asking, can experience (with no educational background) make up for a lack of degree, or does a degree provide something that experience cannot? Is one more valuable than the other? Here lies the argument.

I will say the two argument depends on the spectrum you are viewing ir or rather the side of the fence you are sitting, this issue can be personal and most times emotional.

VIEW POINTS

I have seen people with many years of applicable work experience but no degree, and i have also seen multiple candidate's with degree but with no single work experience. Which of the two is now moew valuable to a coy?

To buttress my point, in a certain year there was an heavy shake up in a certain financial institution in lagos affecting a lot of experienced employer. What led to the shake up? Many of their senior staffs were moving closer to their retirement stage, and the bank knew the situation of the economy then was not conducive for a payoff, they strategized and came up with the idea of hiring a consultant to carry out a thorough investigation on all their experienced staffs. The investigation carried out reveals that many of their experienced staffs had no degree but a forged certificate. However, many of this staffs are the core strength of that financial institution with position ranging from risk, strategics and planning, procurement etc. Now the question? If those staffs with no traceable degree could hold sensitive position for that duration, of what benefit is a degree or paper qualification to performance?

Do you know that the founder of leadway insurance started with no degree (i stand corrected)? Do you know that FCMB started in same manner? The founder of a famous indiginous construction company in Lagos started with no degree (name withheld) and the coy is still waxing strong after over 20years. If that founder (with no degree but experience) applied for a job position in either Julius Berger, G-Kappa, D'Alberto etc will he qualify or be employeable? However, the question is followed by endless responses debating the issue. Obviously, there are specific cases where the question is mute.

TRUTH

Regardless of personal preference, what quality does a degree holder possess that an experience person(with no degree) does not have. Our employers will say -

1. A proven ability to analyze problem, conduct research and produce solutions
2. A proven ability to learn complex, difficult subject matter
3. Proof of intelligence
4. Better interpersonal skills
5. More credible qualifications

BUT I DISAGREE

Can we conclude that a person with experience does not possess all that? Are those with degree consistent with all those requirements? This is my root frustration with employers with a defined job requirements and how they will continue to miss out on a large pool of experience candidate's with no degree.

CONCLUSIONS

If you think a degree holder is better than a person with experience but no degree, then i say, bring a PhD holder in mechanical engineer (if any) and a road side mechanics for a presentation. The PhD holder may prevail with 'Smart terms and Linguistics' but the road side mechanic will thrill the audience with 'practical methodologies'.

Too much consideration of paper qualification has batterred the Nigerian society & rendered it TECHNOLOGICALLY backwards

Following

kinibigdeal:
How many mechanical engineer graduate in nigeria today can successfully assemble or fixed a simple fault in a car? If a mechanical engineer degree holder cannot fix a simple fault in a car, i think such fellow should be sent back to technical colleges for training. Have you ever wondered how a man with PhD in mechanics will be visiting a roadside mechanic at the slightest fault? Do you mean all they know is to assemble?

You are getting It wrong my friend, Mechanical Engineering as a whole is a very wide field in fact it is the widest of all Engineering and mind you Automobile is only a fraction of Mechanical hence it may interest you to know that only few universities in Nigeria have Automobile as an option
You don't expect a PhD holder in Refrigeration and Air-conditioning or thermo fluid to go and Repair a broken car
You don't expect a Mechanical Engineering expert in Industrial and production to go and work on (repair) a broken turbine
Form your post I just see someone who doesn't know anything about Mechanical

kinibigdeal:
I will start by asking, can experience (with no educational background) make up for a lack of degree, or does a degree provide something that experience cannot? Is one more valuable than the other? Here lies the argument.

I will say the two argument depends on the spectrum you are viewing ir or rather the side of the fence you are sitting, this issue can be personal and most times emotional.

VIEW POINTS

I have seen people with many years of applicable work experience but no degree, and i have also seen multiple candidate's with degree but with no single work experience. Which of the two is now moew valuable to a coy?

To buttress my point, in a certain year there was an heavy shake up in a certain financial institution in lagos affecting a lot of experienced employer. What led to the shake up? Many of their senior staffs were moving closer to their retirement stage, and the bank knew the situation of the economy then was not conducive for a payoff, they strategized and came up with the idea of hiring a consultant to carry out a thorough investigation on all their experienced staffs. The investigation carried out reveals that many of their experienced staffs had no degree but a forged certificate. However, many of this staffs are the core strength of that financial institution with position ranging from risk, strategics and planning, procurement etc. Now the question? If those staffs with no traceable degree could hold sensitive position for that duration, of what benefit is a degree or paper qualification to performance?

Do you know that the founder of leadway insurance started with no degree (i stand corrected)? Do you know that FCMB started in same manner? The founder of a famous indiginous construction company in Lagos started with no degree (name withheld) and the coy is still waxing strong after over 20years. If that founder (with no degree but experience) applied for a job position in either Julius Berger, G-Kappa, D'Alberto etc will he qualify or be employeable? However, the question is followed by endless responses debating the issue. Obviously, there are specific cases where the question is mute.

TRUTH

Regardless of personal preference, what quality does a degree holder possess that an experience person(with no degree) does not have. Our employers will say -

1. A proven ability to analyze problem, conduct research and produce solutions
2. A proven ability to learn complex, difficult subject matter
3. Proof of intelligence
4. Better interpersonal skills
5. More credible qualifications

BUT I DISAGREE

Can we conclude that a person with experience does not possess all that? Are those with degree consistent with all those requirements? This is my root frustration with employers with a defined job requirements and how they will continue to miss out on a large pool of experience candidate's with no degree.

CONCLUSIONS

If you think a degree holder is better than a person with experience but no degree, then i say, bring a PhD holder in mechanical engineer (if any) and a road side mechanics for a presentation. The PhD holder may prevail with 'Smart terms and Linguistics' but the road side mechanic will thrill the audience with 'practical methodologies'.

There is no basis for comparison, besides employers want both qualifications and experience

sholay2011:
Your argument is very narrow-minded.

What are you saying bro... what kind of narrow mind are you referring to....

Using myself as an example; I don't have a degree on computing.. Bu I have tutored, trained, schooled, supervised etc a lot of so-called Bsc in computer Sc, and engr....

I have basic and professional experience..

The only reason I'm just schooling now is just to tell me kids I went to the Uni and Nigeria companies...

I advise people... Get the experience, know the job.

numericalguy:
This is
This is

stop stammering.

ariesbull:
I think education limits people also

Most over educated people can't even think out if the box in Africa

Look at LAUTECH with their lecturers n economist, business admin department and others

They can even think of ways to make the University profitable


But the guy in Alaba will make their businesses profitable

You are missing it bro, why the business in alaba seems profitable it's because of enabling environment...simple

kinibigdeal

Good!.

Smart terms, Linguistics, terminologies, how to pass exam, how to read and write English, how to cram, is actually what our schools have to offer in Africa. It's what we erroneously call education, but it's not!. This's why we're stuck in Africa without ability to develop, because we have many people qualified on paper.

Education is about making you to think!!. It has nothing to do with learning to speak English or use of bogus terminologies. This's why Mark Twain said "don't let the school interfere with your education".

charloski:
The only reason I'm just schooling now is just to tell me kids I went to the Uni and Nigeria companies...

Can you please tell me what a greedy algorithm is, and what classes of problems NOT to apply such to?
I would like to know what types of problems you tutor computer science graduates on.

If what you typed above is true, then you have a completely warped mindset about tertiary education, and may not get much out of it.

There's more to computer science than writing good Python code or debugging a C# program!

Sanchez01:
I totally agree but I am not comfortable with the 'without a degree' part as it is totally impossible to be without a degree but gather experiences over the years, because the man with so many experiences started small at first. I would prefer you say someone with a lower class of degree; say a pass or even third class.

Personally, I have come to categorize resumés in two; that of an experienced fellow, which doesn't carry his class of degree and that of a rookie, which he ignorantly displays without cognate experience. The latter, I believe, does so to fill the void for his inability to produce enough experience. However, some companies fall for this and often resort to training folks in this category. Unfortunately, most companies these days consider training and retraining processes expensive and tend to avoid them at all cost, just so they could cut expenses.

The primary reason why most graduates with amazing grades cannot land a job is because they take pride in their certificates, believing it would fetch them everything in life without lifting a muscle. The effect of this is a long term one having rejected jobs they consider way below them. Eventually, they are considered unemployable and be termed unproductive.

Ironically, those who go far and sit on the food chains in their sectors are mostly those with years of cognate experiences while only a too few sit with them with their said high valued class of degree. Years of cognate experience far outweighs any class of degree.

Best argument so far.

Degree is not cheap neither is experience.

Jman06:
I totally disagree that 'experience' should be prioritized over degree. Going by your analogy about mechanical engineer with PhD and road side mechanic, the two can't be compared for any reason. The job of a roadside mechanic is to loose and change faulty parts of a car, while a mechanical engineer is trained to design and assemble cars and other machines from scratch. Most mechanical engineers can do the work of the roadside mechanic if they want to,the thing is that many of them consider it demeaning due to the way the job is done here in Nigeria.

Nigerians have the problem of poor reasoning and that is why somebody will come up with a biased opinion such as this post and the many will just swallow it hook, line and sinker without finding out the fact.

Before i went to pharmacy school, i used to hear some people say that the patent medicine vendors know drugs more than pharmacists. However, before going to pharm school, i sold drugs and so i know that the drug dealers know nothing about drugs. NOTHING!

on point!

The OP should have said 'In Nigeria ' then I'll agree with him to some extent as save we want to deceive ourselves, Nigerian degrees ain't that hot never minding whether the graduate is an idiot who squandered away his/her time in school or he/she was very studious but is saddled with a worthless degree via a shipwrecked educational system.

'True' degrees are given by institutions that are worth their salt. In the case sighted by the OP, the mechanical engineering graduate only graduates after he has been put through both the theoretical and practical aspects of his discipline unlike what obtains in Nigeria where theoretical knowledge is even lacking not to mention practical application.

Thus said, he designs, builds, researches, troubleshoots and brings to reality from conceptualisation, new engines. He 'writes' the procedures the street mechanic follows to solve a problem. The mechanic defers to him, he tutors the mechanic.

The above argument is not valid Nigeria though.

I'd rather take Dangote's point of view to the bank as he speaks from lots of experiences than those who are sentimental and have a hard time accepting reality.

Few years ago I would have disagreed with the op but now I know better.




I went to China and I became a mumu to 17 year old with experience.


What they do in China is face just one thing unlike us who go t university to learn circumference of a circle which 90% of us won't need in our lifetime.

Jman06:
I totally disagree that 'experience' should be prioritized over degree. Going by your analogy about mechanical engineer with PhD and road side mechanic, the two can't be compared for any reason. The job of a roadside mechanic is to loose and change faulty parts of a car, while a mechanical engineer is trained to design and assemble cars and other machines from scratch. Most mechanical engineers can do the work of the roadside mechanic if they want to,the thing is that many of them consider it demeaning due to the way the job is done here in Nigeria.

Nigerians have the problem of poor reasoning and that is why somebody will come up with a biased opinion such as this post and the many will just swallow it hook, line and sinker without finding out the fact.

Before i went to pharmacy school, i used to hear some people say that the patent medicine vendors know drugs more than pharmacists. However, before going to pharm school, i sold drugs and so i know that the drug dealers know nothing about drugs. NOTHING!

dude, you're 500% WRING! those who designed the cars you buy are not all degree holders. In fact, a man got a job designing cars(I forgot the car maker's name) and he said they never asked for his qualibi cations.



I've been to China where injections machines were built, designed. None of them had university degrees.



Matter of fact, most of the machines here from China were made by teenagers.



Ask anybody who has traveled to China before

Hehehehe o boy point made!

kinibigdeal:
I will start by asking, can experience (with no educational background) make up for a lack of degree, or does a degree provide something that experience cannot? Is one more valuable than the other? Here lies the argument.

I will say the two argument depends on the spectrum you are viewing ir or rather the side of the fence you are sitting, this issue can be personal and most times emotional.

VIEW POINTS

I have seen people with many years of applicable work experience but no degree, and i have also seen multiple candidate's with degree but with no single work experience. Which of the two is now moew valuable to a coy?

To buttress my point, in a certain year there was an heavy shake up in a certain financial institution in lagos affecting a lot of experienced employer. What led to the shake up? Many of their senior staffs were moving closer to their retirement stage, and the bank knew the situation of the economy then was not conducive for a payoff, they strategized and came up with the idea of hiring a consultant to carry out a thorough investigation on all their experienced staffs. The investigation carried out reveals that many of their experienced staffs had no degree but a forged certificate. However, many of this staffs are the core strength of that financial institution with position ranging from risk, strategics and planning, procurement etc. Now the question? If those staffs with no traceable degree could hold sensitive position for that duration, of what benefit is a degree or paper qualification to performance?

Do you know that the founder of leadway insurance started with no degree (i stand corrected)? Do you know that FCMB started in same manner? The founder of a famous indiginous construction company in Lagos started with no degree (name withheld) and the coy is still waxing strong after over 20years. If that founder (with no degree but experience) applied for a job position in either Julius Berger, G-Kappa, D'Alberto etc will he qualify or be employeable? However, the question is followed by endless responses debating the issue. Obviously, there are specific cases where the question is mute.

TRUTH

Regardless of personal preference, what quality does a degree holder possess that an experience person(with no degree) does not have. Our employers will say -

1. A proven ability to analyze problem, conduct research and produce solutions
2. A proven ability to learn complex, difficult subject matter
3. Proof of intelligence
4. Better interpersonal skills
5. More credible qualifications

BUT I DISAGREE

Can we conclude that a person with experience does not possess all that? Are those with degree consistent with all those requirements? This is my root frustration with employers with a defined job requirements and how they will continue to miss out on a large pool of experience candidate's with no degree.

CONCLUSIONS

If you think a degree holder is better than a person with experience but no degree, then i say, bring a PhD holder in mechanical engineer (if any) and a road side mechanics for a presentation. The PhD holder may prevail with 'Smart terms and Linguistics' but the road side mechanic will thrill the audience with 'practical methodologies'.

kinibigdeal:
How many mechanical engineer graduate in nigeria today can successfully assemble or fixed a simple fault in a car? If a mechanical engineer degree holder cannot fix a simple fault in a car, i think such fellow should be sent back to technical colleges for training. Have you ever wondered how a man with PhD in mechanics will be visiting a roadside mechanic at the slightest fault? Do you mean all they know is to assemble?

my wife studied computer science but she can't even download windows 10

You have a good point although your conclusion damage it. Here in Nigeria we raise degree more higher than experience. If you are applying for a Job in any of the western countries with a degree and you don't have any experience in that field, you won't be considered. You can obtain your degree (even with first class) with malpractice or due to your connection to high profile people, does that mean you are good in the Job? In my Engineering company, they employ based on the skills you have, then your certificate is secondary. If you aren't good in practical and you are coming with a 'yeye' first class, you will be embarrassed at the end of the day.

Tell me that's a joke!

samsam2019:
my wife studied computer science but she can't even download windows 10

gemini35:
bro the poster is on point,here in nigeria can we get mechanical eng that can design and assemble,our govt did not make them available,we depend on paper work,some time,s it make the degree worthless ,no much practical, but nt same in the western world

We have many Nigerian trained engineers who are consultants to foreign companies. The fact that we have some mediocre engineers does not mean that they are all bad. Nigerians are good at denigrating their own.

kinibigdeal:
How many mechanical engineer graduate in nigeria today can successfully assemble or fixed a simple fault in a car? If a mechanical engineer degree holder cannot fix a simple fault in a car, i think such fellow should be sent back to technical colleges for training. Have you ever wondered how a man with PhD in mechanics will be visiting a roadside mechanic at the slightest fault? Do you mean all they know is to assemble?

Many Nigerian trained engineers are consultants to foreign companies. Much as i'll like the government to do more to improve standards of education in the country, i don't think we are doing too badly like some people blindly believe.

Yes, a mechanical engineer can take his car to a roadside mechanic if he feels like. That doesn't mean he is ignorant of what to do.

If dis posted by people wit first degree and second degree dat tells a lot.

Certificates/degree are just a piece of paper like one Baba professor said during lecture. If u don't hav the knowledge in the sector, den that's just wat it is. All the abbreviation, tittle, on-line courses service u nothing if u can't put it to use in ur operative field!

To get and keep a job, u typically need a repertoire of technical skills. Y ur technical skills set ur foot in the door and skills are wat open most doors to come.
If someone hav degree, he or she will get first round interviews. if u hav substantial depth or breath of skills and experience, not only u set round interviews but also u will hav a much higher chance of landing a full offer.
"I don't regret havin only a primary sch certificate bcz even after all the education money is till the most important thing in life" said NIGERIA BILLIONAIRE, ELEGANZA CEO ALHAJI RASAKI OKOYA.

ariesbull:
I am intending floating my own firm and I will based my recruitment based on experience and love not degree

when build ur firm, remember to hire me to design ur website....Thanks

kinibigdeal:
Tell me that's a joke!

she practically knows nothing about what makes a computer.



Nigerian schools ceeate zombies who only go to school for the certificate

CONCLUSIONS

If you think a degree holder is better than a person with experience but no degree, then i say, bring a PhD holder in mechanical engineer (if any) and a road side mechanics for a presentation. The PhD holder may prevail with 'Smart terms and Linguistics' but the road side mechanic will thrill the audience with 'practical methodologies'.[/quote]I beg to disagree on the above conclusion, lovely write up and I agree it's it's a possibility for experience to over ride paper qualification, but it can only happen in some fields where your personality is key and you learn the basic principles on the job, like marketing, CSR and stock brokerage, even then there has to be a period of apprenticeship to learn the ropes.

Fields like engineering, medicine, architecture and the likes need paper qualifications, this certifies that you know what you're doing because directly or indirectly you deal with human lives and any mistake in your work might cost too much to d environment at large.

hakinz87:
You have a good point although your conclusion damage it. Here in Nigeria we raise degree more higher than experience. If you are applying for a Job in any of the western countries with a degree and you don't have any experience in that field, you won't be considered. You can obtain your degree (even with first class) with malpractice or due to your connection to high profile people, does that mean you are good in the Job? In my Engineering company, they employ based on the skills you have, then your certificate is secondary. If you aren't good in practical and you are coming with a 'yeye' first class, you will be embarrassed at the end of the day.

And in that your company they employ roadside mechanics with 'experience' in place of professional mechanical engineers

samsam2019:
she practically knows nothing about what makes a computer. Nigerian schools ceeate zombies who only go to school for the certificate

Can I ask which university she attended, and her degree class?

ariesbull:
Experience is the best teacher not degree


Hi, go and read about story of Hamilton Naki, a gardener turned self-taught surgeon who became a key assistant to pioneering heart surgeon Dr Christiaan Barnard in his organ transplant programme.



Then read about



Vivien Theodore Thomas (August 29, 1910 – November 26, 1985)[1] was an African-American surgical technician who developed the procedures used to treat blue baby syndrome in the 1940s. He was the assistant to surgeon Alfred Blalock in Blalock's experimental animal laboratory at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tennessee, and later at the Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland. He served as supervisor of the surgical laboratories at Johns Hopkins for 35 years. In 1976 Hopkins awarded him an honorary doctorate and named him an instructor of surgery for the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine.[2] Without any education past high school, Thomas rose above poverty and racism to become a cardiac surgery pioneer and a teacher of operative techniques to many of the country's most prominent surgeons.

This is intelligence not experience per say, I watched a movie based on this story. He got to where he was because he was because he was brilliant and a quick learner with precise hands and th

ariesbull:
Experience is the best teacher not degree


Hi, go and read about story of Hamilton Naki, a gardener turned self-taught surgeon who became a key assistant to pioneering heart surgeon Dr Christiaan Barnard in his organ transplant programme.



Then read about



Vivien Theodore Thomas (August 29, 1910 – November 26, 1985)[1] was an African-American surgical technician who developed the procedures used to treat blue baby syndrome in the 1940s. He was the assistant to surgeon Alfred Blalock in Blalock's experimental animal laboratory at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tennessee, and later at the Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland. He served as supervisor of the surgical laboratories at Johns Hopkins for 35 years. In 1976 Hopkins awarded him an honorary doctorate and named him an instructor of surgery for the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine.[2] Without any education past high school, Thomas rose above poverty and racism to become a cardiac surgery pioneer and a teacher of operative techniques to many of the country's most prominent surgeons.

This is intelligence not experience per say, I watched a movie based on this story. He got to where he was because he was because he was brilliant, tenacious and a quick learner with precise hands and this was what made Blalock notice him in the first place, that was why he became his understudy and eventually he became so good Blalock could hardly do without him. What Vivien Thomas had was a gift which can't be learnt in a classroom