₦airaland Forum

whitebeard:
where in the bible...

Please go and study your bible very well. Christianity is against it

He was actually a very gentle man that was surrounded by difficult officers like Mustapha and the likes.. Military sha..

NwaObinkita:

It is a lie...




Abacha was a proper Gentleman

Actuarydeji:
Is Deborah a Christian? You're still baby in Christianity

Ooo, here they come again.
Deborah is a Muslim abi? Yeye

I like Prince Olagunsoye Oyinlola cos he is a wise man who has in deep knowledge of Yoruba culture and proverb.......I heard he is nice, approachable and alwz ready to help pple.

I love reading stories like this from past leaders. I got some good lessons and experience from it.

lagostokd:
I'll take you serious the day I see a female imam

A judge presides over "judicial matters" concerning the the state and it's inhabitants.

An Imam leads at a "Muslim congregational prayers".

There are female Imams everywhere, they lead female congregations only.

Where a congregation is made up of male and female, a male Imam leads the prayer from the (partition or segregated) "male only" platform.

So what else do you still require now to take him serious?

I tot it said that abacha felt he was usurping his powers?? Its about power n not religion my friend.

CROWNWEALTH019:
Islam forbids female judge ..

factwriter:
A judge presides over "judicial matters" concerning the the state and it's inhabitants.

An Imam leads at a "Muslim congregational prayers".

There are female Imams everywhere, they lead female congregations only.

Where a congregation is made up of male and female, a male Imam leads the prayer from the (partition or segregated) "male only" platform.

So what else do you still require now to take him serious?

From your own words, female imams lead female Muslims in mosques while male imams leads in male mosques. Right?

So in a Muslim family, the father and sons attend male mosques while the wives and daughters attend female mosques. Right?

Are the male mosques and female mosques praying to the same Allah?

If they're praying to the same Allah, what stops them from praying together?

These are questions you need to answer.

I don't even need you to start mentioning the names of female mosques and female imams that you know

lagostokd:
Ooo, here they come again.

Deborah is a Muslim abi? Yeye

My guy please go and study your bible very well, Deborah had been in existence before Christianity. check the act of apostles 11:26. So don't think that I don't no what I am saying.

lagostokd:
Fareehah Faheemah, stop looking for Bible verse to justify Islamic hatred for women!

In Islam, women are relegated as second class citizen!

Women can't lead prayer in mosque.

Women can't pray side by side with men in mosque.

It is haram for Muslim women to marry non-muslims but very OK for Muslim men to marry non-muslims.

What about the role of women in aljanah? Don't let me go there now!

In Christ Jesus, everybody is the same!

Read Galatians 3:26-29 slowly

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Let Jesus be your Lord today

You have no knowledge of what you're talking about. As regards the issue of 'a Muslim woman not allowed to marry a non Muslim while a Muslim man is allowed to marry a non Muslim', Islam recognizes the leadership of the husband as the head of the house. Thus, if a Muslim woman marries the non Muslim man, it will be obligated for her to listen to the instructions of the man even if he says she should change her religion. Therefore, if a Muslim woman marries a non Muslim and is instructed by the husband to change her religion, she has to. This is what Islam is guiding against.

So, you believe that a woman not being allowed to lead prayers in mosque is discrimination? From time immemorial, duties and responsibilities have been assigned to different roles. In several cultures, the man is responsible for the well being of his family. Does that also mean that women in those cultures are being belittled? In fact, in the Bible you quoted in your post, it's in the book of Timothy where Paul forbade women from speaking in the church or have authority over a man.

A woman can't pray side by side a man in the mosque because free mixing of opposite sexes is not encouraged in Islam. This has nothing to do with discrimination: it's the rule.

In Islam, Aisha (RA) was the greatest teacher of the religion after the death of the prophet. She was (and still is) widely respected and reverred by all scholars of Islam. Do you know the huge respect that Islam gives mothers in Islam?

Iblad0994:
Timeline Photos

AWOLOWO SPEAKS

*** Please read the letter below, by Chief Awolowo requesting for an education loan from Chief Timothy Adeola Odutola on March 25, 1943 , (the richest Ijebu man in those days) and promised to pay back by 1955. It is fascinating, long and interesting. ****

~ LETTER:

Dear Mr. Odutola,

I think it will be an exceeding saving of time and more business-like if I avoid all sweet preliminaries and go straight into the object of this letter and say that I am writing to ask you to be good enough to lend me a sum of £1,400 (One thousand and four hundred pounds) free of interest for twelve years.

It is a staggering figure! More staggering indeed does it become, when it is realized that I, who am asking for this loan, have nothing in all the world to give as a security for this money, excepting my good faith and my brains which again are of value only so long as I continue to breathe the breath of life!

Nevertheless, I here proceed to outline in brief why i want this big loan from you. And I hope you will be kind enough to sacrifice some time to go through what I have to say, even though, in the end you might find yourself unable to do me this grand favour.

One great ambition of mine since my boyhood days is to be a lawyer, a politician and a journalist, rolled into one. I cherish politics and journalism as a career, and I desire advocacy as a means of livelihood. For you will agree with me that a politician or journalist who has no money with which to support himself and family comfortably, is like a blade which has no razor.

Now, at one time, I was on the verge of making enough money with which I could proceed to England in order to pursue the object of my ambition; but I suffered a twist in my fortune, and I crashed. Ever since, I have tried without success to recover lost grounds, financially. But spiritually and intellectually, I have made appreciable advance in spite of towering difficulties, all of which have now been surmounted.

As you are aware, I have just passed the intermediate Bachelor of Commerce Examination. Next year, I am taking the final B.Com. Having a degree is not my goal; I hate to be a government or mercantile employee. Otherwise, there are opportunities for me here and there to get a suitable and well paid job under government or one of the mercantile houses. As you know, however, once I become an employee of government or a mercantile establishment that is the end to my career as a politician and journalist. I have therefore resolved that under no circumstances will I take up such employment.

That is just by the way. I am now thirty-four years of age. After careful thought, I have come to the conclusion that if I could raise a loan free of interest sufficient to cover expenses, I should go to England, this year and within three years, I should qualify as a Barrister –at –law, and also obtain with Honours the LL.B Degree of London University. In addition this degrees apart from giving me good backing as a solicitor and Advocate will help me immensely as a politician and journalist.

But where on earth could i get the money? Who in Nigeria today could give £1,400 free of interest to help his fellow-man? J. Henry Doherty, Esq., of illustrious memory who did the like to many successful Nigerians is no more. But after meticulous, shifting and weighing, I hit upon you.

I have no doubt whatsoever in my mind that out of the bounty with which providence blesses your grit and efforts as a businessman, you can well easily afford to advance such a sum of money. I have no doubt too that as a young and progressive man you will be quite happy to give the money for the pursuit of the project for which I desire it.

But then, could you take this risk?

That is the question. As I have said before, I have no security for this loan. Moreover, I want it free of interest. So that you stand to gain absolutely NOTHING in the whole transaction, except the satisfaction that by helping me to achieve my ambition you are indirectly or even directly helping Nigeria or even Africa.

This risk becomes greater when it is borne in mind that I might die in the course of my studies or immediately after, so that, since I have no security or surety, you stand the chance of losing not only the money but also the satisfaction which you may cherish that you are contributing to the uplift of Africa. It is indeed a great risk; the greatest any man ever embarks upon.

But, this is a big BUT, if I live, as I have no doubt I will do, you will not only get your money back in full, but you will, to the end of your days, have cause to rejoice that you have done one of the most outstanding and most philanthropic acts any human being ever does. Among other things, I shall make excellent use of the money while in England by breaking records in my examination. On my return to Nigeria, I shall strive to be one of the foremost advocates, politicians and writers in West Africa, and while I do all these, I shall make it a point not only to pay your money back in full, but also to repay your kindness and generosity towards me in every way I can.

All the same, it is a big risk! So, Sir, I like you to think seriously about it, and see if you can take it in the interest of a young man who has brain, industry and determination to back his ambition, but lacks the money. I know we have never been close friends, but I have a shrewd idea that you may take the risk and help me.

On this assumption, therefore, I proceed to the next and last stage of this letter.

I shall not require the whole £1,400 in a lump sum. To start with, you will help me pay a sum of £208-13s-3d to the Inner Temple. I have already received an application form from this Inn of Court; and from the details forwarded, I gather that the sum of £208-13s-3d will cover all the cost of training as a barrister, examination fees excluded.

When I am ready to sail, you will advance me a sum of £100 to cover passage, provision for my family and any other incidental expenses (NOTE: If I got torpedoed on the way, you would certainly lose this £100 but you will recover the £208-13s-3d).

At the same time you will remit to a London Bank the sum of £491-6s-9d. It is out of this amount that I shall pay the university fees for LL.B course and for special courses in political science and journalism, when I land in England. This is to say, the initial advance will total £800.

At the end of the first year, provided I make satisfactory progress in my studies, you will give instruction to the bank to honour all cheques from me drawn on this account. There will be an arrangement to be signed by me on my return.

On my return, I shall require TWO years within which to establish a solid practice and build a good reputation. After these two years, I should commence to pay at least £200 per annum either in monthly, quarterly or annual payments. So that in seven years after the first two years, I should pay back the whole sum of £1,400. That will be TWELVE YEARS from the time you help me to pay this in April or so this year, then I should be due to pay the whole of £1,400 by April 1955.

Now, as you yourself will see, this is the farthest limit within which I can pay the money. It may be possible for me to pay the money within THREE to FIVE years of my return. As a matter of fact, the sooner I pay it off, the better. But it is much better to be on the safe side in a matter like this. It is no making promises now which will be difficult to fulfil in future. On the contrary it is better to mention a period of twelve years and pay within SIX or EIGHT years than to mention FIVE YEARS and fail to pay within TEN years. Personally, I prefer that I should fail to get the loan under theses unattractive but sure conditions, rather than succeed in getting it under attractive but precarious conditions.

Now, this is all I have to say. You have my request before you, and the reason why i make the request. It is left for you to decide whether it is worthwhile to take the risk of helping me in the manner outlined above or not.

If you do me the great favour, not only myself and all that are mine, but also God and Africa will be grateful, I shall have no cause whatsoever to grumble or to blame you, FOR THE RISK IS GREAT.

Since this is a very selfish request, I enclosed herewith a self addressed stamped envelope to be sent under a registered post.

Obafemi Awolowo.

Merciful God!

* Chief Odutola refused him of the Loan, Awo could not travel that year. He buckle up his lace and by August 14, 1944 (one year later) he travelled to England, became a Barrister at law and was called to the Bar in November 1946. Amazingly, by 1954 (A year to the time he promised to pay Chief Odutola the Loan ) , Chief Awolowo was already a Premier in the Defunct Western Region and already giving out Scholarship to over 200 undergraduates (First of its kind in Africa).

I find it a great pleasure, to replicate the full version of the Awoistic dedicatory letter, following a stiff request by friends that the Nigerian Youths need to see and digest
*copied*

Good read.

who even ignite this religion argument in this forum?

sorepco:
I tot it said that abacha felt he was usurping his powers?? Its about power n not religion my friend.

Many of them didn't even read the article. They saw the headline, assumed in their small minds that it has to be religion motivated and rushed to make comments.

Abacha didn't even care to know if the judge was male, female or hermaphrodite. He summoned Oyinlola because he thought the due process in appointing a new judge wasn't followed.

Actuarydeji:
who even ignite this religion argument in this forum?

Those with small minds did. How religion came to enter the discussion is baffling.

lagostokd:
From your own words, female imams lead female Muslims in mosques while male imams leads in male mosques. Right?

So in a Muslim family, the father and sons attend male mosques while the wives and daughters attend female mosques. Right?

Are the male mosques and female mosques praying to the same Allah?

If they're praying to the same Allah, what stops them from praying together?

These are questions you need to answer.

I don't even need you to start mentioning the names of female mosques and female imams that you know

Na wa for you o,
so much in a hurry to reply me that you couldn't read through my post understandably.

Where did I even use the word "mosque"

I said CONGREGATION.

Male and female Muslim don't go to different mosques, never, ever. Our women are not encouraged to be that lose.

What we have is PARTITION and SEGREGATION. 99% of the time both male and female Muslims observe their CONGREGATIONAL prayers in the same edifice.

Comprehend?

Actuarydeji:
Please go and study your bible very well. Christianity is against it

mtchewww..!! just dey misunderstand the bible, esther, deborah, hildah, Eunice were all female leaders be like say nah only old testament your church dey use..!! or worse u no even they go church..!!


bro no lie ooo, which bible u dey use..??

misterh:
You have no knowledge of what you're talking about.

A woman can't pray side by side a man in the mosque because free mixing of opposite sexes is not encouraged in Islam. This has nothing to do with discrimination: it's the rule.

You don't need to write all these. Anybody with good understanding of Islam knows that allowing women to pray side by side with men in mosques is just like allowing an ass or a dog in the mosque.

Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:
Qatadah said: I heard Jabir ibn Zayd who reported on the authority of Ibn Abbas; and Shu'bah reported the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) as saying: A menstruating woman and a dog cut off the prayer. ( Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 2, Number 0703 )

Actuarydeji:
who even ignite this religion argument in this forum?

Some holier than thou wanna act like saints christians. They are quick to throw stones and then run to hide like peace lovers

factwriter:
Na wa for you o,
so much in a hurry to reply me that you couldn't read through my post understandably.

Where did I even use the word "mosque"

I said CONGREGATION.

Male and female Muslim don't go to different mosques, never, ever. Our women are not encouraged to be that lose.

What we have is PARTITION and SEGREGATION. 99% of the time both male and female Muslims observe their CONGREGATIONAL prayers in the same edifice.

Comprehend?

You created the impression of female mosques with female imams and male/female mosques with male imams.

Read your earlier post again.

Now to your 'clarification'; in this congregation of partitioned male and female mosque, do female imams lead prayer in the female partition or the females follow the prayer leadings of the male imam in the main male congregation?

If the females doesn't lead prayers in their own partition, then where are the female imams?

If a female lead prayer in the congregation, what will happen? Will the prayer be nullified by Allah?

Please answer the questions

lagostokd:
You don't need to write all these. Anybody with good understanding of Islam knows that allowing women to pray side by side with men in mosques is just like allowing an ass or a dog in the mosque.

Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:
Qatadah said: I heard Jabir ibn Zayd who reported on the authority of Ibn Abbas; and Shu'bah reported the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) as saying: A menstruating woman and a dog cut off the prayer. ( Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 2, Number 0703 )

Like I said, you have no knowledge of what you're talking about. In the Hadith you quoted, was it stated that a woman shouldn't pray in a mosque? The Hadith is about a menstruating woman. A menstruating woman is in a state of uncleanness. She can't pray or even fast. When in. prayer, being in a complete state of cleanliness is compulsory.

Isn't it quite convenient for you to totally ignore what I posted and pick and twist the one that suits your narrative? You have nothing to say about the words of Paul in the book of Timothy, right? You seek to portray Islam as a discriminating religion and Christianity as one that's not but turn a blind eye to Paul's words.

What's the word that's used to describe that?
Yeah, right... Hypocrisy.

Cheers.

misterh:
Like I said, you have no knowledge of what you're talking about. In the Hadith you quoted, was it stated that a woman shouldn't pray in a mosque? The Hadith is about a menstruating woman. A menstruating woman is in a state of uncleanness. She can't pray or even fast. When in. prayer, being in a complete state of cleanliness is compulsory.

Cheers.

So according to Allah's standard, a menstruating woman's prayer is unacceptable and can only compare women to dogs and ass. The God that creates menstruation in women does not discriminate against the prayers of menstruating women.

You mentioned Paul in the book of Galatians. I don't get!

Are you talking about the same Paul that taught about how women prays and prophecies in the 1st part of 1 Corinthians Chapter 11?

Like I mentioned to someone earlier, stop looking for Bible verses to justify Islamic hatred/discrimination of women.

Religion has really done more harm than good in Nigeria. people bashing each other at any slight opportunity, arguing unnecessarily. Nothing about religion was even mentioned in the whole post. So annoying.

lagostokd:
So according to Allah's standard, a menstruating woman's prayer is unacceptable and can only compare women to dogs and ass. The God that creates menstruation in women does not discriminate against the prayers of menstruating women.

You mentioned Paul in the book of Galatians. I don't get!

Are you talking about the same Paul that taught about how women prays and prophecies in the 1st part of 1 Corinthians Chapter 11?

Like I mentioned to someone earlier, stop looking for Bible verses to justify Islamic hatred/discrimination of women.

In Islam, cleanliness is an integral part of the the religion. The Prophet of Islam said Purity is half of Faith. One has to be in a state of purity before he/she can pray. Faeces, urine, semen, menstrual blood, blood from childbirth amongst others are considered to be impurities. So when a menstruating woman or woman who still has blood from childbirth doesn't pray, it's not discrimination but that they have to be pure first as when they're in those states, they're considered impure. Same goes for a man who ejaculates- whether it's prostatic fluid or the real semen. It's when both parties have purified themselves that they are allowed to observe Salaat.
Secondly, the kind of prayers the menstruating woman is forbidden from are the Salaats.

I didn't mention of Paul in Galatians. Check 1st Timothy and 1 Corinthians 14.
And I'm not using bible verses to justify what you term as discrimination of women in Islam. You accused Islam of being discriminatory while promoting Christianity as not. I merely pointed a verse to you where women 'seemed' to have been discriminated.

Ps- Seemed is in inverted commas because I'm not an expert at Christianity affairs and thus, can't conclude what was meant by the stated verse.

misterh:
In Islam, cleanliness is an integral part of the the religion. The Prophet of Islam said Purity is half of Faith. One has to be in a state of purity before he/she can pray. Faeces, urine, semen, menstrual blood, blood from childbirth amongst others are considered to be impurities. So when a menstruating woman or woman who still has blood from childbirth doesn't pray, it's not discrimination but that they have to be pure first as when they're in those states, they're considered impure. Same goes for a man who ejaculates- whether it's prostatic fluid or the real semen. It's when both parties have purified themselves that they are allowed to observe Salaat.
Secondly, the kind of prayers the menstruating woman is forbidden from are the Salaats.

I didn't mention of Paul in Galatians. Check 1st Timothy and 1 Corinthians 14.
And I'm not using bible verses to justify what you term as discrimination of women in Islam. You accused Islam of being discriminatory while promoting Christianity as not. I merely pointed a verse to you where women 'seemed' to have been discriminated.

Ps- Seemed is in inverted commas because I'm not an expert at Christianity affairs and thus, can't conclude what was meant by the stated verse.

I like the way you addressed the issue. It shows maturity.

Islam and Christianity are not the same.

Different values

Different faith

Different standards

Different God

Your statement is true 'Faeces, urine, semen, menstrual blood, blood from childbirth amongst others are considered to be impurities. So when a menstruating woman or woman who still has blood from childbirth doesn't pray, it's not discrimination but that they have to be pure first as when they're in those states, they're considered impure.'

It is not the same in Christ. In Christ Jesus, we are not pure in the presence of God based on outward factors like faeces, urine, etc - we can even pray in the toilet. Our God made us pure by the blood of Jesus. Our own purity is not mainly outward but internal purity. God looks at the heart, our motive.

The cleanest of men can be impure in the sight of God if his mind is not pure whereas a destitute can be very pure in the sight of God once he's aligned with Christ.

I'll like you to read the story of Lazarus and the rich man. It's an interesting story. You can Google it.

Lazarus was a poor man with sore - he eats from the crumbs that falls from the rich man's table yet he was accepted by God.

Allah wouldn't like to see the dirty Lazarus, I guess?

Are we talking about Imam here?

lagostokd:
I'll take you serious the day I see a female imam

madridguy:
Are we talking about Imam here?

Ok..let's talk about it. Where are the female imams?

Oh... sorry, the Islamic word for judge is qadi.

So where are the female qadis?

lagostokd:
I like the way you addressed the issue. It shows maturity.

Islam and Christianity are not the same.

Different values

Different faith

Different standards

Different God

Your statement is true 'Faeces, urine, semen, menstrual blood, blood from childbirth amongst others are considered to be impurities. So when a menstruating woman or woman who still has blood from childbirth doesn't pray, it's not discrimination but that they have to be pure first as when they're in those states, they're considered impure.'

It is not the same in Christ. In Christ Jesus, we are not pure in the presence of God based on outward factors like faeces, urine, etc - we can even pray in the toilet. Our God made us pure by the blood of Jesus. Our own purity is not mainly outward but internal purity. God looks at the heart, our motive.

The cleanest of men can be impure in the sight of God if his mind is not pure whereas a destitute can be very pure in the sight of God once he's aligned with Christ.

I'll like you to read the story of Lazarus and the rich man. It's an interesting story. You can Google it.

Lazarus was a poor man with sore - he eats from the crumbs that falls from the rich man's table yet he was accepted by God.

Allah wouldn't like to see the dirty Lazarus, I guess?

The differences in values and standards in religious beliefs is the reason I rarely engage in debates about them. That's the basis for tolerance, to be honest. But what usually leads to religious crisis is people trying to force their beliefs on others. I'm a follower of the 'Live and Let Live' principle. Apologies if I came a rude during the discourse.

Cheers.

misterh:
The differences in values and standards in religious beliefs is the reason I rarely engage in debates about them. That's the basis for tolerance, to be honest. But what usually leads to religious crisis is people trying to force their beliefs on others. I'm a follower of the 'Live and Let Live' principle. Apologies if I csme a rude during the discourse.

Cheers.

Cheers bro...

I'll like you to read about the life of Jesus if you have the time.

NwaObinkita:

It is a lie...




Abacha was a proper Gentleman

A criminal you mean?