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Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 2:58pm On Aug 07, 2017 |
In other words are these 'works if the law' essentials parts of the Faith without which there is no faith. |
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by malvisguy212: 4:23pm On Aug 07, 2017 |
PastorAIO:circumcision fall among the category of ceremonial law.........the error Paul correct is that salvation is by the working of the law.........the error James correct, work is unnecessary after a person is save.James wrote how a believer can show his faith ( (justification or vindication before men) so circumcision is NOT the means of salvation, is the evidence of faith ( the necessity of the believer to show that his faith is real, not a dead faith. |
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by malvisguy212: 4:44pm On Aug 07, 2017 |
PastorAIO:the key word here is " work" what is your understanding of work ? is it " work is the means of Salvation" or " the evidence of Faith" if its the means of salvation, the answer to your question is no. but if its the evidence of faith, your answer is yes. 1 Like |
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 5:54pm On Aug 07, 2017 |
malvisguy212: So in your understanding which men were Abraham attempting to demonstrate his faith to when he attempted to slaughtering Isaac? You seem to think works of faith are just for impressing other people, or to vindicate yourself before them. James' letter suggests to me that the works are a necessary expression of the faith. That's like saying that a necessary property of triangles is to have a sum of angles equal to 180 degrees. If you hear of a geometric structure whose angles don't add up to 180 degrees then you'll know for sure that it can't be a triangle. The essence and the expression are inseparable. Furthermore circumcision was established with Abraham long before mosaic law was established. |
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 5:55pm On Aug 07, 2017 |
malvisguy212: It is the evidence of faith. Furthermore it is a Necessary evidence of faith. |
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by malvisguy212: 7:18pm On Aug 07, 2017 |
PastorAIO:Abraham had no one to prove his Faith is real. but when James use Abraham as an example of a saving Faith, the audience in James 2 and the readers understand his point........I cannot draw a 3HD drawing on a 2HD screem. |
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by malvisguy212: 7:21pm On Aug 07, 2017 |
PastorAIO:yes, my faith is not the result of my good work, it is the result of " work" accomplished by someone. |
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by malvisguy212: 7:42pm On Aug 07, 2017 |
In Romans 4:5 we have a description of the person who is justified freely by God’s grace: "But to him that worketh not , but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Notice that he is the person THAT DOES NOT WORK! He does not work at all! He is not trusting or counting on anything that he has done. alright, if he does not work, what then does he do ? he BELIEVED. he believe on God who is justified FREELY by His Grace. "who does not work but believe" this tell us that Faith is NOTa work. Rather, faith is resting upon the work of Another. Faith is resting all of one’s weight on the WORTH (the Person, who He is ), on the WORK (what He has done) and on the WORD (what He has said) of Jesus Christ. Faith is non-meritorious. |
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 12:31pm On Aug 08, 2017 |
malvisguy212: You are the one that said the sole purpose of works is to impress and vindicate yourself before other men. I'm trying to show that this cannot be true as there was no one present when Abraham attempted to slaughter Isaac. Abraham didn't do it to impress anyone but it was an act that flowed necessarily out of his Faith. I repeat, works flow out necessarily and subsequently to True Faith. |
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 12:36pm On Aug 08, 2017 |
malvisguy212: I didn't say faith is a result of good work.ler me repeat what I said: I said that works are a necessary expression of true faith without which you know that True Faith doesn't exist. No smoke, no damp fire . No works, no Faith. Smoke doesn't cause fire but smoke is a sure sign of fire. |
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by malvisguy212: 1:10pm On Aug 08, 2017 |
PastorAIO:Abraham’s life was chosen as an example because it wonderfully illustrates what kind of faith-evidencing works James had in mind. Works in James are the outworking of faith; apart from a living faith, they would be dead works. Abraham’s work of faith was seen not only in his obedience to God’s command, but especially in the fact that he believed that God would raise up his son (Genesis 22:5) God had promise that isaac would have children, Abraham believe God even though God told him to kill Isaac, ( how can a dead son bear children ?) Abraham believe God will raised him back to life. Abraham Faith manifest itself when he offer Isaac. |
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by malvisguy212: 1:13pm On Aug 08, 2017 |
PastorAIO:yes, you are correct, however, work in this context does not mean you are working your way to salvation. |
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by Ubenedictus(m): 5:56pm On Aug 08, 2017 |
Wilgrea7: 1. The friction between Paul and others was cleared up in Acts 15. 2. I read the comments by Aio and it has little to do with the issues i raised. 3. You can tell a Protestant that "the bible does not say..." i am a Catholic, Church father compiled the scriptures and councils set down the books as a unified whole in teaching the oracles of God. So that each book is inspired and not just the opinion of its writer.. As such i boldly declare the bible say.... |
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by Wilgrea7(m): 8:23pm On Aug 08, 2017 |
Ubenedictus: i concede for now.. because i don't know much on the subject.. although i feel there was a variation.. i will speak when i know more 1 Like |
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by Kobojunkie: 7:19pm On Apr 06, 2023 |
donteanz:1. Jesus Christ's teachings and commandments are the foundation upon which all of His followers, including Paul, are expected to abide by. Jesus Christ said, "If you abide in me, I will abide in you". Jesus Christ is the embodiment of God's Truth and Constitutional Law in the Kingdom of God, and those who abide by the teachings and commandments of the Law, He, Jesus Christ, will abide in. |
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