₦airaland Forum

johnydon22:
At a point here on nairaland i had a signature on which states; If a perfect God with the ability to create a perfect world exists and wants you to be in a perfect world, you would have been in a perfect world, there wouldn't be a need for such bizarre cruel test results determined by virtue of all knowledge

I would like you to mull over this and my proceeding points in this write-up, i aim to invoke deep thoughts about our beliefs and hopes.

In very many religions of the world there are concepts of paradise, heaven, valhalla. A supposedly perfect world of eternal bliss, sinless and without any atom of corruption where you may end up to live an infinite life of joy, happiness and plenty.


But there is a bizarre twist to this idea, this is where it gets strange.

"You must live and die first before it can be determined if you are qualified to gain this eternal bliss"

If we run our thoughts backwards in time, try to picture the state we were before birth then one can be exposed the bizarreness and cruelty of such unnecessary tests.

We didn't exist -

There were two choices before God, create these beings into a perfect world or create them into an imperfect world to test them over nothing.

If there is a perfect God with the ability to make a perfect world and this perfect God wants you to be in a perfect world, he would have pulled you directly from in-existence into this perfect world.

You didn't exist, so what exactly was the need for the test when you could be created exactly where God wills?

So if heaven is perfect at last, and everyone in heaven will turn out perfect then this means God is fully capable of creating a perfect world with perfect beings in it, which now begs the question "Why didn't God create that perfect world in the first place?"

Some persons that i know and talked about this issue with gave the answer that God initially created this world to be perfect but man's action ruined God's perfect plan.

It is amazing how the perfect plan of an all knowing and all powerful being can be thwarted by tiny man.

This answer calls into question the very purity of heaven, if man could ruin God's perfect world, what would change when man is now in heaven?

won't man also be able to ruin that too?

If you say that man cannot ruin heaven, the next question becomes - Why was man able to ruin this world but will be unable to ruin the next?

Take again as a second instance the story of Lucifer in Christian mythology, he was once an angel of God, one of Gods sons and was the bringer of light, a high ranked angel but became corrupt of his own essence, envied God's position and rebelled against God thus culminating to heavenly civil war that led to him being cast out of heaven alongside his followers.

Even heavenly beings in as this story goes are not immune to corruption, they are just as man still vulnerable to impurity and sin.

What will God do differently in paradise to avoid the whole saga repeating itself all over again and thus it keeps going?

cc. hahn, uyildredi, coolusername, plaetton, frank317

HardMirror:
oh cool
I am interested

urheme:
Hello johnydon22,

Not all Christians are concerned with the fantasy of a heaven or hell.....A Christian's goal should not be heaven but how to make a positive impact in this world where we find our selves......God has been projected into our mind in divers ways by the different sectors and denominations of religions.

After reading your post, i felt like crying because i sympathize with you....the burden in your Heart to break a circle that is intolerably wrong......The strong feelings in you to liberate your people from greed, foolishness and stupidity.....Your desire to see the religious crooks nailed for the gross deceit and robbery perpetuated on your people.......The anger that burns in your heart watching your people being deceived while they know they are being deceived and yet willing to be deceived........Hummm.

My Brother, God uses the imperfect things of this world to do wonders...God did not create any thing perfect.....Heaven or hell if there is cannot be perfect.......God is irreligious and His doctrine is love and love only.

With this kind of burden in your heart....You might just be the one liberator God is actually looking for to break the heavy burden of the toxic Called religion that the devil has use to yoke the people down for ages.

God is worshiped in the spirit.

Martinez19:
What is this one saying? Heaven and hell are realities to christians. To escape hell and to make heaven is a quest for christians so as obeying other parts of the bible. Christianity, whether you like it or not, is a religion. If you doubt it, then you need a good dictionary. Johnydon22 is not used by God and I don't think he would want to.

urheme:
So your point is

edicied:
I think the Muslim Heaven answers all this

realtem:
how?

edicied:
In Muslim heaven, you can do anyhow

realtem:
How sure are you about this? Perhaps give me a reason(a passage from their holy book would do well) to believe it.

edicied:
In Muslim heaven, you can do anyhow

edicied:
Guy am not a Muslim o

edicied:
In Muslim heaven, you can do anyhow

realtem:
That's not an heaven i'll want to be in anyway

realtem:
That's not an heaven i'll want to be in anyway

johnydon22:
This is just how myth goes!.

Satan was once an angel in a perfect heaven then evil grew within him.
-Therefore heaven wasn't perfect in the first place.

then he rebelled and got thrown out.
-even protests, coups, revolutions and rebellions takes place in heaven too.. Hmmm heaven is simply a copy of earthly politics.

And then he was sent to earth out of countless planets in the cosmos.
-Cool story

HardMirror:
Jesus death Rubbish and uselessness
Yes, you read that right! The death of Jesus is absolute rubbish.

So God Soooooooo loved the world, yet the best he could do was send a single jesus to die and make it compulsory to believe in jesus before we can have eternal life? Hmmmm....

So while jesus was busy dying in Jerusalem, with the africans, south americans, australian aborigines asians totally unaware of a jew in jerusalem supposedly dying for the sins of the world world.

It would take hundreds of years for the gospel to reach many parts of the world even after jesus died. So what was happening to the millions of people dying everyday without even knowing Jesus ever existed?

It should have been, "for God so loved the Jews of Jerusalem..." Not the Whole world.

HardMirror:
Heaven will fall again! There will be sin and rebellion in heaven!

Yes! Yes!! Yes!!!
As long as we would have free will in heaven, then get ready for rebellion!

HOW DO I KNOW?

In the very beginning before man was created. There was this angel, he was the most beautiful and incharge of music in heaven. Lucifer, the bright morning star, he was!

Guess what? At this time there was nothing ever called sin. Nothing knew how to sin.

YET Lucifer rose one day and decided to take oover from God, a 3rd of ALL the angels even decided to follow Lucifer. And a war broke out in heaven.

Now after some years of this rebellion, you would think the angels have learnt their lesson not to rebel against God. For where?
In the times of Noah, these sons of God looked down from heaven and saw that the women on earth were beautiful, so they started running away from heaven (heaven must be so boring) and came to earth to have good times with our ladies.

I am therefore convinced that we humans that are even more stubborn than angels will scatter heaven in no time. Remember that angels have no free will like we humans, yet they could turn against God. How much more we humans that have free will?

So obvious God is not that terrifying, for the angels to not have respect or fear him and allow their penis make them leave heaven and not care about God's anger.


Think deeply about this

DoctorAlien:
Man was created in a perfect world, but with freewill! That means that he could choose to obey or disobey GOD. Unfortunately he chose to disobey GOD. Creating man without the ability to choose voluntarily to love and obey GOD makes him a robot/machine.

However, those who would be in Heaven are those who have shown that they would permanently obey GOD with their freewill, come what may.(Rev. 12:11)

johnydon22:
What?

Free food, booze and p*ssy? Count me in please!!!

edicied: See you, You no like 72 virgins

hahn:
I don't think you can have a sane and intellectual argument anywhere. The only place I enjoy discussions these days in on Thinker's Lodge, a whatsapp group for nairaland atheists, but that place is not for the faint of heart. People who are emotional like ifeness, who has left the group 3 times, cannot seem to handle the emotional stress of having a discussion with people who criticize everything

But I love it!

johnydon22:
At a point here on nairaland i had a signature on which states; If a perfect God with the ability to create a perfect world exists and wants you to be in a perfect world, you would have been in a perfect world, there wouldn't be a need for such bizarre cruel test results determined by virtue of all knowledge

I would like you to mull over this and my proceeding points in this write-up, i aim to invoke deep thoughts about our beliefs and hopes.

In very many religions of the world there are concepts of paradise, heaven, valhalla. A supposedly perfect world of eternal bliss, sinless and without any atom of corruption where you may end up to live an infinite life of joy, happiness and plenty.


But there is a bizarre twist to this idea, this is where it gets strange.

"You must live and die first before it can be determined if you are qualified to gain this eternal bliss"

If we run our thoughts backwards in time, try to picture the state we were before birth then one can be exposed the bizarreness and cruelty of such unnecessary tests.

We didn't exist -

There were two choices before God, create these beings into a perfect world or create them into an imperfect world to test them over nothing.

If there is a perfect God with the ability to make a perfect world and this perfect God wants you to be in a perfect world, he would have pulled you directly from in-existence into this perfect world.

You didn't exist, so what exactly was the need for the test when you could be created exactly where God wills?

So if heaven is perfect at last, and everyone in heaven will turn out perfect then this means God is fully capable of creating a perfect world with perfect beings in it, which now begs the question "Why didn't God create that perfect world in the first place?"

Some persons that i know and talked about this issue with gave the answer that God initially created this world to be perfect but man's action ruined God's perfect plan.

It is amazing how the perfect plan of an all knowing and all powerful being can be thwarted by tiny man.

This answer calls into question the very purity of heaven, if man could ruin God's perfect world, what would change when man is now in heaven?

won't man also be able to ruin that too?

If you say that man cannot ruin heaven, the next question becomes - Why was man able to ruin this world but will be unable to ruin the next?

Take again as a second instance the story of Lucifer in Christian mythology, he was once an angel of God, one of Gods sons and was the bringer of light, a high ranked angel but became corrupt of his own essence, envied God's position and rebelled against God thus culminating to heavenly civil war that led to him being cast out of heaven alongside his followers.

Even heavenly beings in as this story goes are not immune to corruption, they are just as man still vulnerable to impurity and sin.

What will God do differently in paradise to avoid the whole saga repeating itself all over again and thus it keeps going?

cc. hahn, uyildredi, coolusername, plaetton, frank317

Martinez19:
My point is what you wrote is hypocritical and ignorant crap. It is either you take the bible as it is or you don't take it at all. Hypocrisy puts one in the middle.

SmartyPants:
You've made a few wrong assumptions. I speak from the Christian point of view.

1. That life is a test. Life is not a test that determines ones qualifications to enter heaven. Not in Christianity. In Christianity, man belongs on earth, and going to heaven is only temporal until God creates a new earth that is perfectly pure and will remain that way forever. My point here is that you have it wrong right from the start.

2. What if God has His plans but allows man to exercise free will? God made man and He reserves the right to grant unto His creation freewill.

3. Consider this: what if you are so powerful that you can determine where you will end up, either in heaven or hell? Would it stil e God's responsibility to make sure you go to heaven?

realtem:
Why did God create man?(from a christian POV)

SmartyPants:
I don't know. Why does an artist create an artwork? Why does and inventor create an invention? Do we look to the artwork or to the invention for answers about the artist or inventor?

Why then so you look to man for answers about God?

realtem:
hmmm... So, is there any chance God revealed that in the bible?

hahn:
I don't think you can have a sane and intellectual argument anywhere. The only place I enjoy discussions these days in on Thinker's Lodge, a whatsapp group for nairaland atheists, but that place is not for the faint of heart. People who are emotional like ifeness, who has left the group 3 times, cannot seem to handle the emotional stress of having a discussion with people who criticize everything

But I love it!

ifenes:
I'm not being arrogant, but your chat group was like demoting myself 7 classes lower, shifting 700 years back in time and having childish discussions with farmers.

Sorry I had to leave even when you re-invited me several times.

No disrespect to the guys there(some nice guys and ladies on there) but you are one dumb fellow. I would not give in depth analysis on how childish your discussions were.

The conversations were so uneducative, I would rather watch paint dry. To you that is a chat group of intelligent discussions, to me it was pathetic. I can put you through intelligent chat groups where you could actually meet quality people and learn only if you will learn to keep your mouth shut and stop arguing blindly. A lot of your questions shows a complete lack of understanding. You are as brainwashed as the people you criticise.

I do not dislike you in any way but someone had to tell you the truth.