₦airaland Forum

Activa:
They can do it as long as the net balance across breaches is positive.

as long as, I like that clause, hehehhehee

Johnrake69:
Who owns the assets of the church? Is it the members or the G O? Go and find out about the crisis in assemblies of God.

FORGET ABOUT WAT INDIVDUALS DO IN CHURCH. They all will give account to GOD. Cos He is the Owner of the church. The worst tin a man can do to himself is to joke or play with church funds/properties.... be u a pastor or church founder

BluntBoy:
You missed the whole point.

I used my story to illustrate the hypocrisy and selfishness in the church of today. If I ask Oyedepo to sell his jet and give the money to the poor, I know he would give me 101 reasons why he needs the jet. Now, if Oyedepo asks a man to sow his car as a seed and the man starts looking for excuses to not sow the seed, I am sure Oyedepo would tell him not to let the Devil stop him from giving to God. That is hypocrisy. Pastors justify why they need to have universities, jets, etc. but will not want to tolerate excuses from the flock they claim to lead.

I have heard pastors preach sacrifices when they do not even practice it. In the Early Church, the saints did things together. They lived as one.

I have told you that poverty is spiritual ...Google some of the biggest lottery wins in history and how the beneficiaries ended. Even the sale of the entire assets of Bishop Oyedepo and the transfer of the proceed to you for onward distribution to your chosen poor won't get any of them out of poverty.

The 'mega church' and the rich folks there didn't fall from heaven as 'mega and rich. Oyedepo will tell you for free that they started as three and the half member because one of them wasn't consistent and from the first day of commissioning, they started paying tithe to Redeemed. They didn't start paying because they have become mega. Every single income of those small beginning paid tithe.....They didn't do it because it was convenient ... You claim they don't sacrifice as they preach only because you are seeing only their today. Everything they are asking you to do they experienced and even much more than you

The challenge is that you are more carnal about the things of the spirit than you are prepared to admit. You know this letters of the scripture but the spirit of the word is lacking hence poor result. Even Jesus Christ that could command money out if the mouth of a fish sent his disciples without purse and they did wonders ... Ask yourself why your ministry didn't find favour with men in that community or there are no middle class propel in that environment. ....The spirit of favour is what is lacking

Nodogragra4me:
I have told you that poverty is spiritual ...Google some of the biggest lottery wins in history and how the beneficiaries ended. Even the sale of the entire assets of Bishop Oyedepo and the transfer of the proceed to you for onward distribution to your chosen poor won't get any of them out of poverty.

The 'mega church' and the rich folks there didn't fall from heaven as 'mega and rich. Oyedepo will tell you for free that they started as three and the half member because one of them wasn't consistent and from the first day of commissioning, they started paying tithe to Redeemed. They didn't start paying because they have become mega. Every single income of those small beginning paid tithe.....They didn't do it because it was convenient ... You claim they don't sacrifice as they preach only because you are seeing only their today. Everything they are asking you to do they experienced and even much more than you

The challenge is that you are more carnal about the things of the spirit than you are prepared to admit. You know this letters of the scripture but the spirit of the word is lacking hence poor result. Even Jesus Christ that could command money out if the mouth of a fish sent his disciples without purse and they did wonders ... Ask yourself why your ministry didn't find favour with men in that community or there are no middle class propel in that environment. ....The spirit of favour is what is lacking

I shake my head at the nonsense that they have fed you with.

First of all, poverty is not spiritual. Poverty can be chosen, as in the case of Jesus, and the Franciscan monks.

Second, the wonder of taking a coin out of the mouth of a fish was not performed by the disciples but by Jesus. Why didn't Jesus ask his disciples to feed the 5,000? Why did Jesus have to multiply the bread and fish Himself?

If Oyedepo and others are sacrificing as much as they ask their followers to, they won't be able to have jets because they would have sold it long ago to feed the poor. That was what Jesus would have done. That was what Paul did.

Lastly, the planters of the early churches had financial aid. Barnabas sold houses and estates to finance the kingdom (I still wonder if Oyedepo can sell just one of his jets to do this). The Church in Antioch backed Paul on his church planting mission.

BluntBoy:
I shake my head at the nonsense that they have fed you with.

First of all, poverty is not spiritual. Poverty can be chosen, as in the case of Jesus, and the Franciscan monks.

Second, the wonder of taking a coin out of the mouth of a fish was not performed by the disciples but by Jesus. Why didn't Jesus ask his disciples to feed the 5,000? Why did Jesus have to multiply the bread and fish Himself?

If Oyedepo and others are sacrificing as much as they ask their followers to, they won't be able to have jets because they would have sold it long ago to feed the poor. That was what Jesus would have done. That was what Paul did.

Lastly, the planters of the early churches had financial aid. Barnabas sold houses and estates to finance the kingdom (I still wonder if Oyedepo can sell just one of his jets to do this). The Church in Antioch backed Paul on his church planting mission.

What do you mean as in the case of Jesus ...Was he poor. .... Do you really know the scripture or bulletin and homily has brainwashed you Judas Iscariot was a personal banker to the ministry of Jesus Christ, what was it that he was keeping in the purse and stealing ..... Jesus travelled accompanied by other smaller boats as escort, his raiment despite all the stains and blood was divided through lots amongst the soldiers ....A man who could command money out of the mouth a fish .....Did as occasion demanded ....gave Peter two boat loaded of fishes .....The book of gal told us that he ultimately died poor so we could be rich....The spirit to get the coin as we want it was transferred to us upon his death


Feeding 5,000 ...I am without doubt sure that even the bulletin you buy for 50 and 100 naira you dot read otherwise you would read one of them where he instructed them in the acts of the apostles to tarry in Jerusalem until the holy spirit comes upon them ....That is what is known as Pentecost day......Before his death, they were limited in power so he couldn't have sent to to d what he knew they weren't empowered yet to do ......No where in the scripture was obedience rewarded with poverty ... Isa 1:19... If they be willing and obedient they shall eat the good of the land and Psalm 23:6 says his goodness and mercy follows and not we chasing his goodness and mercy ...They follow if we walk right

Even Jesus Christ that could command money out if the mouth of a fish sent his disciples without purse and they did wonders.............This is an excerpt from my post you who quoted. Where did you find me stating that it was the apostles that performed the miracle of coin.



Oyedepo doesn't ask you anyone to sacrifice .... Winners unlike your Catholic Church with multiple offerings , levies, family harvest , bazaar , chief launcher and raffle draws and very recently the much condemned tithe only have offering and tithe and both are expected to be in an envelope.... There is no subtle pressure of asking everyone to come to the front of the Church pew by pew. ....What multiplies the tithe and offering is same power at work in the miracle of feeding the 5000. There is always a surplus in the commission finances because the man understands the mystery of multiplication.


For early missionaries having financiaL aid: who aided Oyedepo when The membership was just 3 and the half ...Who aided Him when membership was 10. Or your imagination is so riotous that you have only seen the present status .... Poverty is spiritual.... The widow of zareptha had it until she ministered to the prophet and her oilannd flour supernaturally increased ....

When you bring the natural God will supply the super and you will have supernatural supply.

BluntBoy:
I shake my head at the nonsense that they have fed you with.

First of all, poverty is not spiritual. Poverty can be chosen, as in the case of Jesus, and the Franciscan monks.

Second, the wonder of taking a coin out of the mouth of a fish was not performed by the disciples but by Jesus. Why didn't Jesus ask his disciples to feed the 5,000? Why did Jesus have to multiply the bread and fish Himself?

If Oyedepo and others are sacrificing as much as they ask their followers to, they won't be able to have jets because they would have sold it long ago to feed the poor. That was what Jesus would have done. That was what Paul did.

Lastly, the planters of the early churches had financial aid. Barnabas sold houses and estates to finance the kingdom (I still wonder if Oyedepo can sell just one of his jets to do this). The Church in Antioch backed Paul on his church planting mission.

The same poor people he fed the first time came again and he refused to see them telling the disciples that the people came because of bread ,,,,today no bread and the went away disappointed. ....Why didnt he continue to get money out of fishes and distribute. Why didn't he ask that the expensive oil be sold and the money given to the poor .... Jesus Christ knew it was futile for any one to try to make the poor rich through handout ....

The Almight fed the poor, it didn't take poverty away from them instead it increased it and they came again and he sent them away hungry

Nodogragra4me:
The same poor people he fed the first time came again and he refused to see them telling the disciples that the people came because of bread ,,,,today no bread and the went away disappointed. ....Why didnt he continue to get money out of fishes and distribute. Why didn't he ask that the expensive oil be sold and the money given to the poor .... Jesus Christ knew it was futile for any one to try to make the poor rich through handout ....

The Almight fed the poor, it didn't take poverty away from them instead it increased it and they came again and he sent them away hungry

My God, who is teaching you all these nonsense?

After feeding the 5000, He fed another 4000.

Feeding the flock "real" food is not to remove their poverty but to show love.

“Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, ‘Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,’ but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?” (James 2:15–16).

Nodogragra4me:
The same poor people he fed the first time came again and he refused to see them telling the disciples that the people came because of bread ,,,,today no bread and the went away disappointed. ....Why didnt he continue to get money out of fishes and distribute. Why didn't he ask that the expensive oil be sold and the money given to the poor .... Jesus Christ knew it was futile for any one to try to make the poor rich through handout ....

The Almight fed the poor, it didn't take poverty away from them instead it increased it and they came again and he sent them away hungry

I have already explained the bold here on Nairaland before.

Jesus did not stop the perfuming of his feet to show the hypocrisy of Judas Iscariot. Judas Iscariot who was a thief was seeming to love the poor but Jesus exposed his hypocrisy. For how can Judas, who was fond of stealing from the moneybag, care for the poor? To understand the Bible, you need to read it with the aid of the Holy Spirit. You also need to start reading verses in full and not in isolation so as not to limit your grasp of the message being passed around.

BluntBoy:
I have already explained the bold here on Nairaland before.

Jesus did not stop the perfuming of his feet to show the hypocrisy of Judas Iscariot. Judas Iscariot who was a thief was seeming to love the poor but Jesus exposed his hypocrisy. For how can Judas, who was fond of stealing from the moneybag, care for the poor? To understand the Bible, you need to read it with the aid of the Holy Spirit. You also need to start reading verses in full and not in isolation so as not to limit your grasp of the message being passed around.

So to show the hypocrisy of Judas he allowed a very expensive oil to be used on his feet and the hair if the lady to be used to wipe his feet. And the so called hypocrisy wasn't mentioned as part of the statement credited to Jesus Christ but imputed by the writers of the Bible ...the very word of Jesus Christ in the passage .... How do you expose something without pointing it out .... Who taught you how to read the scripture? I recommend you go do BCC IN winners WOFBI ...Or you can the get the red letter Bible ...It will solve your confusion....In that Bible only the words or statement of Jesus are in red ......YOU can't separate the statement of Jesus Christ from the passage

Here is the entire account of event:

Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odor of the ointment. Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscar´i-ot, Simon's son, which should betray him, Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein. Then said Jesus, Let her alone: against the day of my burying hath she kept this. For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:3-8‬ ‭

Nodogragra4me:
So to show the hypocrisy of Judas he allowed a very expensive oil to be used on his feet and the hair if the lady to be used to wipe his feet. And the so called hypocrisy wasn't mentioned as part of the statement credited to Jesus Christ but imputed by the writers of the Bible ...the very word of Jesus Christ in the passage .... How do you expose something without pointing it out .... Who taught you how to read the scripture? I recommend you go do BCC IN winners WOFBI ...Or you can the get the red letter Bible ...It will solve your confusion....In that Bible only the words or statement of Jesus are in red ......YOU can't separate the statement of Jesus Christ from the passage

Here is the entire account of event:

Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odor of the ointment. Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscar´i-ot, Simon's son, which should betray him, Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein. Then said Jesus, Let her alone: against the day of my burying hath she kept this. For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:3-8‬ ‭

I told you that you need the Holy Spirit. If not, you will continue to see the Bible as a storybook.

If Jesus had asked that the oil be sold and put in the moneybag, of what use would it be since Judas Iscariot would steal from it? The hypocrisy was that it was the same Judas Iscariot who was always stealing from the moneybag and who would still have stolen the proceeds from selling the oil that was suggesting that to Jesus.

The hypocrisy is that Judas never cared for the poor. His eyes were on the quality of oil which would fetch good money. It was greed pushing him and Jesus quickly exposed his hypocrisy and used the opportunity to motivate the disciples to always remember the poor.

BluntBoy:
My God, who is teaching you all these nonsense?

After feeding the 5000, He fed another 4000.

Feeding the flock "real" food is not to remove their poverty but to show love.

“Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, ‘Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,’ but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?” (James 2:15–16).

Read Matt 6:25

BluntBoy:
I told you that you need the Holy Spirit. If not, you will continue to see the Bible as a storybook.

If Jesus had asked that the oil be sold and put in the moneybag, of what use would it be since Judas Iscariot would steal from it? The hypocriscariot who was always stealing from the moneybag and who would still have stolen the proceeds from selling the oil that was suggesting that to Jesus.

The hypocrisy is that Judas never cared for the poor. His eyes were on the quality of oil which would fetch good money. It was greed pushing him and Jesus quickly exposed his hypocrisy and used the opportunity to motivate the disciples to always remember the poor.

Your imputation is very appalling.... The Bible says then Jesus said ....But you left that his statement even when I bolded it to concentrate on the added information.... So in your holy spirit interpretation, Jesus allowed the oil to be used on his feet rather than be sold and allow Judas steal the money ..... Are you saying he wasn't hold enough to expose Judas directly..... Or even remove the purse from his care ....It is the writers of the scripture that imputed the character of Judas ...He was the banker of the group........ Jesus never address Judas in that passage beyond ...Leave her alone for she has kept this into my death ....The poor you will have always .......... In that room where the event took place , according to the scripture the only statement made was that of Judas taking selling the oil and Jesus talking about the reason Mary had kept the oil and the poor.....How the did he expose Judas hypocrisy...... He never said, let her use it on my feet after all wit all the offerings we still have deficit ....

Nodogragra4me:
Read Matt 6:25

What has that got to do with our argument?

BluntBoy:
What has that got to do with our argument?

They came again and he told them , you guys have come for bread and not the word

Nodogragra4me:
Your imputation is very appalling.... The Bible says then Jesus said ....But you left that his statement even when I bolded it to concentrate on the added information.... So in your holy spirit interpretation, Jesus allowed the oil to be used on his feet rather than be sold and allow Judas steal the money ..... Are you saying he wasn't hold enough to expose Judas directly ..... It is the writers of the scripture that imputed the character of Judas ...He was the banker of the group........ Jesus never address Judas in that passage beyond ...Leave her alone for she has kept this into my death ....The poor you will have always .......... In that room where the event took place , according to the scripture the only statement made was that of Judas taking selling the oil and Jesus talking about the reason Mary had kept the oil and the poor.....How the did he expose Judas hypocrisy...... He never said, let her use it on my feet after all wit all the offerings we still have deficit ....

You need serious understanding. When did Jesus ever expose any of Judas Iscariot's bad behavior? Did Jesus confront Judas directly for planning to betray Him? Why did Jesus speak directly to Peter but never spoke directly to Judas Iscariot?

My friend, you need the Holy Spirit.

Nodogragra4me:
They came again and he told them , you guys have come for bread and not the word

In the verse you gave Check the verse again.

BluntBoy:
What has that got to do with our argument?

You are yet to substantiate your holy spirit teaching that Jesus was poor even though he could get money from a fish and gave out two boats loaded with fish to Peter

BluntBoy:
You need serious understanding. When did Jesus ever expose any of Judas Iscariot's bad behavior? Did Jesus confront Judas directly for planning to betray Him? Why did Jesus speak directly to Peter but never spoke directly to Judas Iscariot?

My friend, you need the Holy Spirit.

You are now arguing against your submission..... Judas asked why the oil was not sold and the money given to the poor ..... Jesus said... Let her be ...She kept this for this day ...The poor you will always have ....... You said Jesus allowed the lady so he can expose the hypocrisy of Judas and I asked how? The statement in the passage didn't suggest anything like that.

Nodogragra4me:
You are yet to substantiate your holy spirit teaching that Jesus was poor

Jesus chose poverty. It was evidenced in the Bible. After teaching the 5000, there was not even enough money in their moneybag to buy substantial amount of food. Hence why Jesus performed the miracle. It was the same during the feeding of the 4000.

Also in the same Bible, Jesus was talked of Himself as having nowhere to lay His head.

Nodogragra4me:
You are now arguing against your submission..... Judas asked why the oil was not sold and the money given to the poor ..... Jesus said... Let her be ...She kept this for this day ...The poor you will always have ....... You said Jesus allowed the lady so he can expose the hypocrisy of Judas and I asked how? The statement in the passage didn't suggest anything like that.

Please, stop reading suggestions in the Bible. Sit down and ask for understanding. You think it is easy to teach the Word? Or you think it is the same thing as reviewing Harry Potter?

BluntBoy:
Jesus chose poverty. It was evidenced in the Bible. After teaching the 5000, there was not even enough money in their moneybag to buy substantial amount of food. Hence why Jesus performed the miracle. It was the same during the feeding of the 4000.

Also in the same Bible, Jesus was talked of Himself as having nowhere to lay His head.

Jesus never er said anything about money not being enough and to feed 5000 in an emergency would require more than money but where to even get the person to prepare the food .... He only asked where they could get the food ... Not whether there was money ....Holy spirit man doesn't Even know what is written in black and white .... Your spirit is Aba made and this IPOB wahala is disturbing his peace

Jesus didn't not do miracle because he was poor ...13 He replied, “You give them something to eat.”

They answered, “We have only five loaves of bread and two fish—unless we go and buy food for all this crowd.” 14 (About five thousand men were there.)

Nodogragra4me:
Jesus never er said anything about money not being enough and to feed 5000 in an emergency would require more than money but where to even get the person to prepare the food .... He only asked where they could get the food ... Not whether there was money ....Holy spirit man doesn't Even know what is written in black and white .... Your spirit is Aba made and this IPOB wahala is disturbing his peace

Jesus didn't not do miracle because he was poor ...13 He replied, “You give them something to eat.”

They answered, “We have only five loaves of bread and two fish—unless we go and buy food for all this crowd.” 14 (About five thousand men were there.)

If I said I understood you, I would be telling a big lie.

If they had enough money to feed them, would the disciples not have done it? I don't understand your argument. Perhaps, you. might want to explain again, in well-structured body of texts.

BluntBoy:
If I said I understood you, I would be telling a big lie.

If they had enough money to feed them, would the disciples not have done it? I don't understand your argument. Perhaps, you. might want to explain again, in well-structured body of texts.

You stated that Jesus performed the miracle of feeding 5,000 men because there was no enough money to feed them and I want to know where you got that impression from because from the scripture, in all his conversation with the disciples on the issue before the miracle lack of money never arose

Here is the account of Jesus conversation with his disciples concerning feeding the multitude from different versions of the Bible

Luke 9:10-17New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Feeds the Five Thousand


From Verse: 12 Late in the afternoon the Twelve came to him and said, “Send the crowd away so they can go to the surrounding villages and countryside and find food and lodging, because we are in a remote place here.”

13 He replied, “You give them something to eat.”

They answered, “We have only five loaves of bread and two fish—unless we go and buy food for all this crowd.” 14 (About five thousand men were there.)

“When Jesus then lifted up his eyes, and saw a great company come unto him, he saith unto Philip, Whence shall we buy bread, [/b]that these may eat? And this he said to prove him: for he himself knew what he would do.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:5-6‬ ‭KJVA‬‬
http://bible.us/546/jhn.6.5-6.kjva

But Jesus said to them, "You yourselves give them something to eat." They answered, "All we have are five loaves and two fish. Do you want us to go and [b]buy food for this whole crowd?" ...Goodnews study Bible

Jesus didn't ask his disciples if there was enough money but where to buy food even though he himself knew what he would do.

Nodogragra4me:
You stated that Jesus performed the miracle of feeding 5,000 men because there was no enough money to feed them and I want to know where you got that impression from because from the scripture, in all his conversation with the disciples on the issue before the miracle lack of money never arose

Here is the account of Jesus conversation with his disciples concerning feeding the multitude from different versions of the Bible

Luke 9:10-17New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Feeds the Five Thousand


From Verse: 12 Late in the afternoon the Twelve came to him and said, “Send the crowd away so they can go to the surrounding villages and countryside and find food and lodging, because we are in a remote place here.”

13 He replied, “You give them something to eat.”

They answered, “We have only five loaves of bread and two fish—unless we go and buy food for all this crowd.” 14 (About five thousand men were there.)

“When Jesus then lifted up his eyes, and saw a great company come unto him, he saith unto Philip, Whence shall we buy bread, [/b]that these may eat? And this he said to prove him: for he himself knew what he would do.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:5-6‬ ‭KJVA‬‬
http://bible.us/546/jhn.6.5-6.kjva

But Jesus said to them, "You yourselves give them something to eat." They answered, "All we have are five loaves and two fish. Do you want us to go and [b]buy food for this whole crowd?" ...Goodnews study Bible

Jesus didn't ask his disciples if there was enough money but where to buy food even though he himself knew what he would do.

Perhaps, I was not plain enough but then, you have to show where in my posts I wrote that Jesus asked if there was enough money. There was a moneybag which Judas carried and Mark was explicit about how long it would take to work to feed the 5000, so commonsense should tell anyone that there was not enough money in the moneybag to feed that much people.

Secondly, Jesus said "feed them". Does that not support my view that the flock should be fed?