ooshinibos:

OK .I will mention only 3 for now , not to prolong the issue
Malachi 3 :11 -benefits of the tithe
Mathew 23:23 -Jesus endorsing the tithe
Hebrew 7 , 1-21 - the new testament explanation of Jesus being a high priest in the order of Melchizedeck

honestly , I understand what Daddy freeze is saying , but he should not be against the tithe or tithing itself .. he should stress the abuse the Nigerian pastors have done with the tithe .. tithing is scriptural but it is also optional ,

...and Jesus as died...so no need to for a sacrifice...he as made himself the sacrifice...please don't cherry pick the scriptures...read the whole Hebrew 7...read it to verse 27

if freeze was really wrong, I expect a bible verse to tame him

and I read in the bible that u can't fight for God, so why are these pastors fighting for tithe? if tithe is truly God commandment then leave him and freeze to address the battle


one thing that's special about Christian is that, they do put their fellow Christians in order whenever they are making mistake, if the same are done by the Muslims, perhaps we might not be spending much on securities in northeast today


we need to sit tight and follow what the bible&Islam teaches if we really want to be free from these challenges

You should be the one taking your own advise ma.

For your edification, kindly read Lev 25 to know who tithe was for, numbers 18 for the types of tithes and deut 14 for how it's to be administered.

Lastly, you should also know that Christians aren't meant to pay tithe because we operate under the grace the death of Christ brought to us and no longer need tithe or offerings to gain blessings and forgiveness of sins from God via a third party called the 'priests'.

Giving as Christians is now to be willingly and without compulsion according to the teachings of Christ. Giving without expecting a reward, giving to those who truly need it without showmanship.
Christ is now our mediator and has paid the ultimate price for sins and access to God.

Even the Jews no longer pay tithe because the temple has been destroyed, you can no longer find the temple in Jerusalem and we no longer have pure levites (those who were born, live, serve and die in the temple for the service of priesthood) on earth nor in Jerusalem. Levites live and die inside the temple and owns no property anywhere on earth! Do we have any priest like that currently?

gare:


Then if you're trying to be one, you don't need to listen to freeze rather study your Bible.

ooshinibos:

OK .I will mention only 3 for now , not to prolong the issue
Malachi 3 :11 -benefits of the tithe
Mathew 23:23 -Jesus endorsing the tithe
Hebrew 7 , 1-21 - the new testament explanation of Jesus being a high priest in the order of Melchizedeck

honestly , I understand what Daddy freeze is saying , but he should not be against the tithe or tithing itself .. he should stress the abuse the Nigerian pastors have done with the tithe .. tithing is scriptural but it is also optional ,

Interesting.... Truth be told you have done a lot better than all the GO who's commented on this issue one way or another.
You backed it up with a biblical passage not sentiments which is fair enough but still arguable.
Still its one sad Topic... Even heard one pastor saying how can one expect one of canal mind to understand the things of the spirit, yet as Christians I think our main purpose after doing all possible best to make sure we live a life that will make us worthy of God's kingdom is ' to also ensure we preach d gospel so others can benefit'
How do we now expect the canal minds to understand Jesus is Lord yet we can't expect them to understand the whole idea of Tithe.
As for the other pastors the have replied with sentiments (God help the church... If it's sentiments that Christians are using to preach d Gospel)

Best reply so far I'll read more on it Stay Blessed

gare:


Why should I listen to someone like you that doesn't know the difference between "right" and "write" and you are asking me to tell my pastor, guy show some respect, go back to school rather than waste your time on nairabet

Lol I meant right
Oga go and sleep you sheeple

Bonapart:
how market concerning your Allah deity and his pedophile prophet Mohammed

You problem of the world... Alphas and mallams are being caught on daily basis with human parts, you dare to have something to say about pastors. Not to mention jihadist poo

nooo I'm not a Muslim oo, I think I will change my moniker real soon

The death of Jesus on the cross as abolished Tithe forever...instead free will giving is better..

Was Mr Freeze or what they call his name force to pay titch? Shu! Leave ppl when dey pay abeg

blackpanda:


Enlighten your brain


https://www.vanguardngr.com/2017/02/kicc-ashimolowos-church-alleged-fraud-investigation/

you have to understand one thing blackpanda, we Nigerians have elevated pastors to be Angels and super beings , they are normal humans beings prone to mistakes and errors , maybe even worse , and that's the major problem with our society , I have been in ministry for a long time ..these pastors are normal guys ,yes than can be anointed by God ,but they are not exempt from human errors ..God can flow through anybody but does not mean that vessel is perfect ,of course overtime they should get better ..I don't see pastors as perfect beings like Nigerians do, , I actually check the bible myself not newspaper or daddy freeze or nairaland to confirm what they are saying , off course some pastors are time wasters because they don't preach the bible ..regarding the KICC fraud investigation , it actually happened by it was a church official and he has been sacked , Nigerians, our problem , we worship human beings not God , hence we have this problems with pastors , I will love to be a Nigerian pastor , the honor and glamor is too much ,it will make the devil and God jealous :-)

It will be better that am wrong not paying

pafisayo:



Interesting.... Truth be told you have done a lot better than all the GO who's commented on this issue one way or another.
You backed it up with a biblical passage not sentiments which is fair enough but still arguable.
Still its one sad Topic... Even heard one pastor saying how can one expect one of canal mind to understand the things of the spirit, yet as Christians I think our main purpose after doing all possible best to make sure we live a life that will make us worthy of God's kingdom is ' to also ensure we preach d gospel so others can benefit'
How do we now expect the canal minds to understand Jesus is Lord yet we can't expect them to understand the whole idea of Tithe.
As for the other pastors the have replied with sentiments (God help the church... If it's sentiments that Christians are using to preach d Gospel)

Best reply so far I'll read more on it Stay Blessed

thank you bro , I appreciate , our problem in Nigeria is that we have elevated pastors to be super humans and angels , we think they are perfect but they are not , the way we worship pastors in Nigeria will make the devil jealous ,hence the problem

somehow:
You should be the one taking your own advise ma.

For your edification, kindly read Lev 25 to know who tithe was for, numbers 18 for the types of tithes and deut 14 for how it's to be administered.

Lastly, you should also know that Christians aren't meant to pay tithe because we operate under the grace the death of Christ brought to us and no longer need tithe or offerings to gain blessings and forgiven of sins from God via a third party called the 'priests'.

Christ is now our mediator and has paid the ultimate price for sins and access to God.

Even the Jews no longer pay tithe because the temple has been destroyed, you can no longer find the temple in Jerusalem and we no longer have pure levites (those who were born, live, serve and die in the temple for the service of priesthood) on earth nor in Jerusalem. Levites live and die inside the temple and owns no property anywhere on earth! Do we have any priest like that currently?

Because you don't want want to pay tithe you're now a member of freeze school of thoughts, those are lifted write up for freeze, well I am not stopping you, you're free to do whatever you want to do, moreover it's not every believer that pays tithe, so since your understanding has told you not to pay tithe well and fine . I can't force you and so is your pastor, or have heard any pastor forcing his members to pay tithe.

But my only concern is not about the message but the messenger, if any man of God stands on the pulpit to preach this message I will understand, maybe as directed by the holy spirit, not someone that is not in the right standing with God tell me about tithe.

Mind you, your not paying tithe doesn't mean you are not in right standing with God.

Bonapart:
all these "I am also a Christian nonsense"
What about alfas and mallams? It's more painful to see that foolish Christians are the ones championing this new evil crusade against the church

Y'all won't go unpunished

Yeye pikin

Your choice of words tho. You sure you're a Christian

You don't sound like one.

I'm done replying you. Bye

ooshinibos:

OK .I will mention only 3 for now , not to prolong the issue
Malachi 3 :11 -benefits of the tithe
Mathew 23:23 -Jesus endorsing the tithe
Hebrew 7 , 1-21 - the new testament explanation of Jesus being a high priest in the order of Melchizedeck

honestly , I understand what Daddy freeze is saying , but he should not be against the tithe or tithing itself .. he should stress the abuse the Nigerian pastors have done with the tithe .. tithing is scriptural but it is also optional ,

Jesus didn't endorse tithe, rather he used it to rebuke the hypocrites (Pharisees and saducees), he said they are always good at paying tithe but ignoring the important aspects of the law (love, care, forgiveness etc). During that time, Jesus was yet to be killed, yet to resurrect, his death transformed all that for Christians. Before then, there were no Christians, so except you're claiming to be a Jew, I don't see why you should be basing your belief on an old Jewish practice which is no longer pracized by the Jews. (Prefer to my previous post above for details).

Abraham didn't pay tithe, what he did was a one off payment from the spoils of war, please go to your old testament to read that aspect. He gave 1/10th of the spoils of war to the king of Salem, not from his own property! That is not tithing! Tithing lessons can be found in leveticus 25. Numbers 18 and deut 14. Those are the books that laid down how tithing was ptacized then.

Malachi 3:10 wasn't talking to you, it was talking to the priests, read the preceeding chapter to understand Malachi 3. Read Malachi 2!

May the truth finds it's way into us.

Paying tithe and trying to gain God's favor through it "devalues" the death of Christ and the freedom it brought along. His death was a fulfillment of the law and no Christian not even Jesus paid tithe in the new testaments.

Show us one verse where any of the early Christians pay tithe, what they did was sharing all that they had amongst themselves. Read acts and also Galatians. Ephicians and collosians can help you understand the practise of the Early Christians.

Be like them and stop trying to be like the old Jew (the Pharisees and the saducees)

The truth is that a greedy person will only want to keep whatever gets to him to himself alone; if he does business with others, he will not like to give them their share of the proceeds.
So any Christian who says tithing is wrong and maybe because few fake pastors (those God has already assured us that He will reject at the last day) are taking advantage of God's amazing grace lead people astray has;
1. No Revelation or
2. No understanding of the bible.

Tithe paying is a REVELATION
No one told Abraham to pay his Tithe (unless you want to tell me that He was also fooled or muzzled into paying his Tithe) but he became the first person to Pay Tithe.

FOR THE ELECT: please pay your tithe because half obedience to God is equal to disobedience. Salvation, Holiness, Love, Obedience....are all we need to make heaven. If you pay tithe but forsake holiness, you will Not make Heaven but if you live holy and don't tithe you will still not make heaven, please read that Mattew 23:23 again and again so that you don't get mislead.

mrvitalis:


Lol I meant right
Oga go and sleep you sheeple

Now I should go and sleep, and you call me foolish, when you can not make a superior argument you resort to insults, because I know you don't know the meaning of sheeple,

Sheeple means, people compared to sheep in being docile, foolish, or easily led.

Please don't insult me again, simply go back to school, is not an insult.

God have mercy on the blind.

Is this all you can say? I thought you were going to use the bible to counter me and show me the way? Freeze didn't teach me all these, the bible did, what I explained is in the Bible not from freezes mouth.

Are you truly a bible believing Christian? Do you truly read your bible?

May the knowledge of his word not depart from us finally!

gare:


Because you don't want want to pay tithe you're now a member of freeze school of thoughts, those are lifted write up for freeze, well I am not stopping you, you're free to do whatever you want to do, moreover it's not every believer that pays tithe, so since your understanding has told you not to pay tithe well and fine . I can't force you and so is your pastor, or have heard any pastor forcing his members to pay tithe.

But my only concern is not about the message but the messenger, if any man of God stands on the pulpit to preach this message I will understand, maybe as directed by the holy spirit, not someone that is not in the right standing with God tell me about tithe.

Mind you, your not paying tithe doesn't mean you are not in right standing with God.

How do you know he's not the right person to preach the word? Because he's not wearing suit and doesn't own a church? Once he puts on a suit and open a church, you will then take him serious?

You think he's more sinful than you or the pastors attacking him for pointing people to be bible?

Is suleman more Christian than freeze?
Adeboye more of Christian than freeze?
Oyakhilomen, okotie, oritstejafor, oyedepo, ibiyome more Christian than freeze because?

Sirheny007:

Of Course! Your So called pastor will have to defend his source of income.
And for him to directly attack the messenger shows he knows nothing.

#DemonicservantsofGod

Exactly, what's with attacking the person, I thought I was going to listen to sound scriptural backings that will strengthen one's faith in Tithing, The day i started taking Freeze seriously was when I read his reply to Apostle Sulaiman, I was expecting Freeze to hit back at him considering the recent controversy around him, but no
A man who beats his wife and kids took out time and replied logically and rationally with....
Now, who should people take more seriously.

gare:


Freeze has no moral justification to tell us what we as Christians are to do, majority of his supporters do not even know the road to a church, we as Christians are not complaining about the tithe issue what is your problem?

Why can't you guys just allow the church to be.

I cry for people... pls stop using the words 'we as Christians' and use your name. The wise ones have moved on. Enjoy your bondage.

gare:


Now I should go and sleep, and you call me foolish, when you can not make a superior argument you resort to insults, because I know you don't know the meaning of sheeple,

Sheeple means, people compared to sheep in being docile, foolish, or easily led.

Please don't insult me again, simply go back to school, is not an insult.

Who started the insult ?
Asking you to back your agument with bible verz and you started to attack my person ?

Don't have your time ooh

Keep giving your tithe to pastors ,don't read the bible on your own
I fact give out 90% of your income God would bless you

buchibrand:
The truth is that a greedy person will only want to keep whatever gets to him to himself alone; if he does business with others, he will not like to give them their share of the proceeds.
So any Christian who says tithing is wrong and maybe because few fake pastors (those God has already assured us that He will reject at the last day) are taking advantage of God's amazing grace lead people astray has;
1. No Revelation or
2. No understanding of the bible.

Tithe paying is a REVELATION
No one told Abraham to pay his Tithe (unless you want to tell me that He was also fooled or muzzled into paying his Tithe) but he became the first person to Pay Tithe.

FOR THE ELECT: please pay your tithe because half obedience to God is equal to disobedience. Salvation, Holiness, Love, Obedience....are all we need to make heaven. If you pay tithe but forsake holiness, you will Not make Heaven but if you live holy and don't tithe you will still not make heaven, please read that Mattew 23:23 again and again so that you don't get mislead.

How come Jesus Christ who is the author and the finisher of our faith didn't have that same REVELATION, how come great apostle like Paul, James etc including old Christians didn't had that same REVELATION. So it is you who had the REVELATION, why are you always manipulating the word of God. Haba fear God oo and stop worshiping your daddy G.O

somehow:
God have mercy on the blind.

Is this all you can say? I thought you were going to use the bible to counter me and show me the way? Freeze didn't teach me all these, the bible did, what I explained is in the Bible not from freezes mouth.

Are you truly a bible believing Christian? Do you truly read your bible?

May the knowledge of his word not depart from us finally!

So if you're a Bible scholar, what's is your issue with tithing, my brother you need deliverance, what portion of the Bible do you want me to quote that you have not quoted, is it a Bible Quotation competition, since you understand the Bible so well and don't want to pay your tithe it is well with you.

iamkneeyi:
...and Jesus as died...so no need to for a sacrifice...he as made himself the sacrifice...please don't cherry pick the scriptures...read the whole Hebrew 7...read it to verse 27

verse 27 says who ( Jesus ) does not need daily sacrifices ,like those high priest to offer up sacrifices first for his own sins and the sin of the people , he did it once for us ..I love this verse , here the Bible was comparing Jesus with the old priest under the law with regards to daily killing of goats etc. and forgiveness of sins , the text says we don't need to do that anymore because Jesus did it for us , the ultimate sacrifice , the text was not talking about tithe but about sin and sacrifices ..and the status of Jesus has an High priest forever . to prove my point the tithe occurred before the law , so the bible text was not focus on the tithe . Now if you agree accordingly to the text that Jesus is your high priest ,you will not have problem in giving 10 percent of your income to his Kingdom , its totally optional and up to you


iamkneeyi Yes , I agree with you ....but tithing is not a sacrifice , it is an offering to be plain , as I said before , it is optional and not by compulsion , actually Moses added tithing to the law because of its benefits copying the acts of Abraham . If you see Jesus as your high priest then you will not have problem with honoring him with the tithe via your church or pastor . Again , tithing is not for everyone and it is not compulsory as some pastors say , we are under grace , you are right

Bunch of lost souls in nl commenting Rubbish on important subjects... I pity those who want to believe a rock star over a man of God..

blackpanda:




Brainwashed lot

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2017/02/kicc-ashimolowos-church-alleged-fraud-investigation/

I liked your polite response

I knew the stories before it's been inflated by the Media

I suggest you refer the link to Daddy Freezer as his response Weapon

buchibrand:
The truth is that a greedy person will only want to keep whatever gets to him to himself alone; if he does business with others, he will not like to give them their share of the proceeds.
So any Christian who says tithing is wrong and maybe because few fake pastors (those God has already assured us that He will reject at the last day) are taking advantage of God's amazing grace lead people astray has;
1. No Revelation or
2. No understanding of the bible.

Tithe paying is a REVELATION
No one told Abraham to pay his Tithe (unless you want to tell me that He was also fooled or muzzled into paying his Tithe) but he became the first person to Pay Tithe.

FOR THE ELECT: please pay your tithe because half obedience to God is equal to disobedience. Salvation, Holiness, Love, Obedience....are all we need to make heaven. If you pay tithe but forsake holiness, you will Not make Heaven but if you live holy and don't tithe you will still not make heaven, please read that Mattew 23:23 again and again so that you don't get mislead.

oga don't you think you are contradicting yourself? You said no one told Abraham to pay tithe yet you are vasking people to pay tithe.Why not leave them to pay tithe like Abraham when no one has asked them?

BTW who told you that people who don't pay tithes wont make heaven? are you amongst one of the gatekeepers in heaven? So you mean to tell me that Apostle Paul will not make heaven because he didn't pay tithes? Did any Christian at all pay tithes in the bible?

Pastor Jones jailed for telling members to tithe 10% of their incomes.

Courtroom exchanges between a Judge of the Law and Pastor Jones.

The truth about tithing
(unknown author)

Judge: Mr. Jones you have been charged with multiple counts of extortion. Your crime spree covers 20 years and thousands of victims. You have defrauded people out of their money with fear and manipulation, telling them they had to tithe 10% of their income as per the LAW to your Regd. organization (called Church) and that God would bless them if they did. You also told them that if they didn't tithe God would curse them.
How do you plead?

Mr. Jones: I plead not guilty your Honor,
I have done nothing wrong. I have only preached what the Bible says. In the Bible Abraham tithed to Melchizedek and God blessed him for his faithful giving. The Bible even says he was rich in silver and gold.

Judge: Is it not true, Mr. Jones, that in Genesis chapter 13 verse 2 the Bible says Abraham was rich with livestock, silver and gold?

Mr. Jones: Yes, you are exactly right, that's what I just told you.

Judge: Ok, we read about Abraham being a rich man in chapter 13 but it is not until Genesis chapter 14 that we read about Abraham's tithe to Melchizedek. So Abraham was already a rich man before he tithed to Melchizedek, wasn't he?

Mr. Jones: Yes, I suppose you are right.

Judge: So his riches were not the result of his tithe to Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: No.

Judge: Mr. Jones, you also say God blessed him for his faithful giving. How many times is it recorded that Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: Well, just once.

Judge: So the Bible never said that he gave week after week?

Mr. Jones: No it does not.

Judge: Where did Abraham get the things that he gave to Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: Well the Bible says it was from the plunders of war?

Judge: So you are telling me that he gave from the plunders of war?

Mr. Jones: Yes that's what the Bible says.

Judge: So he basically took things that were not really his in the first place and gave them as the tithe?

Mr. Jones: That is what the scripture seems to indicate.

Judge: Is it recorded that he ever took anything from his own possessions and tithed them to Melchizedek or anyone else?

Mr. Jones: I guess not

Judge: You guess not, you are a teacher and you are only guessing, is it or is it not written that he ever gave any of his own possessions as a tithe to anyone?

Mr. Jones: No it is not written anywhere that I have seen.

Judge: Is it recorded as to what exactly Abraham did give Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: I believe it says plunder?

Judge: So plunder could be any number of things?

Mr. Jones: Yes, I suppose

Judge: It could have been food, cattle, sheep, the people's possessions or any number of things. It does not say it was all money correct?

Mr. Jones: Yes you are correct, it does not say just money

Judge: As a matter of fact money is never mentioned in that account at all is that correct Mr. Jones?

Mr. Jones: Yes your Honor, money is never mentioned just goods and food and people.

Judge: So there is no way you can say with any certainty that Abraham in fact gave Melchizedek any money at all?

Mr. Jones: That is right.

Judge: I only have one last question for you Mr. Jones, did God command Abraham to give this plunder tithe to Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: No, it appears that he did this voluntarily.

Judge: So are you trying to tell me that because of this voluntary, one time gift by Abraham, that may not have even consisted of money, all Christians everywhere are obligated to bring 10% of their weekly paycheck to a local Regd.Organization-church?
Considering all the evidence I would say you are beyond any shadow of a doubt guilty of deliberately trying to make the scriptures says things they have not said for financial gain.

Mr. Jones: Ok your Honor, I can see how foolish I was to try and use the story of Melchizedeck to try and get the people to tithe money. But there are many other verses that will support my belief on tithing. Jacob said he would give God 10% of everything. I think we should follow his example.

Judge: Let's see what Jacob said. Please read the verse you are talking about for me Mr. Jones.

Mr. Jones: In Genesis chapter 28 starting at verse 20 it says. Jacob vowed a vow, saying, "If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and clothing to put on, so that I come again to my father's house in peace, and Yahweh will be my God, then this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, will be God's house. Of all that you will give me I will surely give the tenth to you."

Judge: You said we should follow Jacobs example, is that right Mr. Jones?

Mr. Jones: Yes that is right, he vowed to give a tenth and we should too.

Judge: Let me point out one thing for you Mr. Jones, Jacob said he would Give God a tenth, ONLY if He blessed him first. So as you said previously, we should follow Jacob's example and tell God that we will only give him a tenth if he blesses us first. Is that right?

Mr. Jones: That is not what I meant.

Judge: What did you mean then?

Mr. Jones: That we should give God a tenth also.

Judge: There you go again, trying to make the scripture say what you want it to say for your benefit. I would also like you to tell me the scriptures that say that Jacob kept his vow with God. I would also like to know where he gave the tenth to because there was no temple or levites to give it to at that time.

Mr. Jones: I can not think of any scriptures that say where or if he ever tithed after his vow.

Judge: It seems fairly obvious to me that Jacob made a voluntary and conditional vow to God. This in no way can be used as a reason to demand others to bring their income to you or any other place.

Mr. Jones: I do have a few more scriptures that I believe will show that we are supposed to tithe.

Judge: You have not said anything yet to convince me one little bit that people are obligated to tithe money to the local organizational institutions -churches and that you were justified in what you were doing. You have taken scripture and misapplied it to your beliefs and for your gain. But in order to be fair to you I will allow you to present more evidence.

Mr. Jones: In the book of Malachi chapter 3 starting at verse 8 it says, will a man rob God? yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, In what have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the store-house, that there may be food in my house, and prove me now with this, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. So you see your Honor, we are commanded to bring the tithes into the storehouse or God will curse us.

Judge: Answer me this Mr Jones, Who was God Speaking to here?

Mr Jones: To the People of Israel

Judge: Can you please read Malachi 2: 1 Please Mr Jones

Mr Jones: Now This command is for you O PRIEST !!

Judge: Did God stop talking to the Priest in chp. 3 Mr Jones?

Mr Jones: No your Honor!

Judge: Answer me this Mr. Jones, were you aware that God never required anyone to tithe money?

Mr. Jones: No I didn't know that.

Judge: The tithe spoken of here was always edible products never money.

Mr. Jones: well your Honor that is because they didn't have money at the time so God had them tithe food instead.

Judge: Not true, money is first mentioned in Genesis and Malachi was written hundreds of years later. God had them bring food in so that the levites, the fatherless and widows may eat and be satisfied. The tithe was used mainly to take care of people. Also notice it says in the verse you quoted, that there may be food in my house. The food was the tithe. How do you completely overlook the word food in those verses?

Mr. Jones: I don't know

Judge: I also want you to know that these verses speak to nation under the Old Testament law. As you may or may not know Jesus fulfilled the law, it is no longer binding.
Once again you have tried to completely take a scripture out of context and apply it to others for your benefit. Can you give me a single scripture where God changed the tithe from food to money?

Mr. Jones: I do not know of any.

Judge: So if God never changed it from food to money who did?

Mr. Jones: Man must have.

Judge: So far all you have done Mr. Jones, is take Old Testament scriptures out of context and try to apply it to believers under the New Covenant. Is this all the proof you have?

Mr. Jones: I do have a New Testament scripture that will show that Jesus told us to tithe.

Judge: Ok let me hear it.

Mr. Jones: Jesus said in Matthew 23:23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith. But you ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone. See Jesus said we should be tithing.

Judge: Let me ask you a question, who was Jesus talking to?

Mr. Jones: The scripture says the Scribes and Pharisees.

Judge: Are you a scribe or Pharisee?

Mr. Jones: Of course not.

Judge: Jesus also said in that passage, you have left undone the weightier matters of the law. Are we under the law Mr. Jones?

Mr. Jones: No.

Judge: Why not?

Mr. Jones: Because Jesus fulfilled it.

Judge: When did Jesus fulfill the law?

Mr. Jones: When He was crucified.

Judge: So the law was still in effect until Jesus death?

Mr. Jones: That is correct.

Judge: I think you know where I am going with this don't you?

Mr. Jones: Yes your Honor. Since Jesus had not yet been crucified and the law was still binding the Pharisees were required to tithe because it was part of the law. Once the law ended, tithing ended also.

Judge: I want you to take a look at that verse again. Also tell me, what were they tithing?

Mr. Jones: The scripture says it was mint, dill and cumin.

Judge: Is money mentioned?

Mr. Jones: No it was not.

Judge: Once again it was edible products that they were tithing, not money. Do you have anything else you would like to say?

Mr. Jones: If people only tithed edible products like the scripture says, then how would the church survive? We have our mortgage payment, utility bills, staff salary and a host of other things that we have to pay each week. We depend on the money from the people.

Judge:By "church" you mean your organization isn't it Mr Jones ?
-The need does not justify the means. In other words, just because you have all these debts does not give you the right to twist and manipulate scripture and cause people to give under fear of being cursed by God to meet your needs. Does It Mr Jones?
In closing, let me recap a few things for you Mr. Jones.
-The tithe was never money;
-The tithe was an Old Testament law, which is no longer binding. When it was binding the tithe was used to take care of people, not buildings.
- We are under a new covenant now.
Paul instructs the Corinthian believers how they are to give. He says in second Corinthians chapter 9 verse 7, Let each man give according as he has determined in his heart; not grudgingly, or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver. So each believer is supposed to give as he or she has determined in his or her heart.
If they determine to Give 10% well and good, If they keep aside some every week to meet this more better.If you are trying to make people give under the threat of being cursed or any other reason even blessing, you are wrong. Someone can not give cheerfully if they are being forced to give. If 'your church can not survive on freewill offerings maybe God is not part of your church at all.
Mr Jones, Do you intentionally put your people under a Curse or a Bondage?

Mr Jones: Of Course Not !!

Judge: Can you Read in context Gal 3:10-11 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them ....
AND
Gal 5:1-4 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage....

Mr. Jones: I never realized all these things, I have always been taught that we had to tithe money to the local church and that is what I have always taught. I can see now that I was completely wrong. I did not study the scripture for myself, I only took mans word for it.
Yes ' am guilty. I will not teach this error anymore.

Sentencing....... All Arise .......

somehow:

Show us one verse where any of the early Christians pay tithe, what they did was sharing all that they had amongst themselves. Read acts and also Galatians. Ephicians and collosians can help you understand the practise of the Early Christians.

Be like them and stop trying to be like a old Jew (the Pharisees and the saducees)

Bros/Sis (whichever you are), I don't know you but I'll find you and give you a big hug.

Your counter reasoning is spot on and logical.

[quote author=mrvitalis post=62885636]
Who started the insult ?
Asking you to back your agument with bible verz and you started to attack my person ?

Don't have your time ooh

Keep giving your tithe to pastors ,don't read the bible on your own
I fact give out 90% of your income God would bless you [/quot

Guy, tithing is a matter of the heart The scripture most frequently referenced regarding the tithe is indeed in the Old Testament (Malachi 3:10-12), but the tithe is also referenced in the New Testament. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus talks to the Pharisees, condemning them for tithing to the penny but neglecting the more important issues of justice, mercy and faith. He then goes on to tell them that they should in fact tithe, but that they shouldn't neglect the more important things. Jesus recognized the importance of keeping the tithe and we should also.

My concern is not the message but the messenger, freeze should not tell us what to do as Christians or as believers because he is not one.

i read in one of ashimolowo books where he wrote that the fall of the black man is because they dont pay tithes,i was just suprise.

how many westerners go to church and pay tithes. None,but their society is progressive,even with all the tithes we have paid to his churches,how many of his churches have try to improve the society good.None

he collects tithe to maintain his lifestyle.

Since recession all these pastors have been emphasing on tithes like we own them money.

After listening to this one I came to the conclusion that these pastors indeed have been feeding fat on the lack of knowledge of the sheeples.

Daddy Freeze said use your tithe to help the needy and not to finance the grandiose lifestyle of the so called pastors.

He said Daddy Freeze beats his wife as though that is the issue but we know many of them pastors that have been reported to beat their wives and even divorce them.

In this world we know many people who are not Christian's they don't pay any tithe but they are philanthropist so that is not a ticket to prosperity.

The churches themselves are very selfish, they use their members money to build schools and deny them the opportunity to benefit therein.
Instead people that don't pay to are the ones that school there.