₦airaland Forum

fellowman:
Uthman burned many Qur'ans (I wonder why this doesn't create many riots). Each of the Qur'ans burned were slightly different than his official version. Uthman, not wanting different opinions, then burn all versions he consider "false".

The thing is, how does he know that the version he burned is the false one and the one he keep is the correct one?

This means that drastic changes occurred. After all, "Why were the other copies and fragments ordered to be burnt? " The answer is found in the original statement: "Hudhaifa was afraid of the different recitations of the Qur'an "
Hudhaifa did not want different versions of the Qur'an.

Since all other copies of the Qur’an were ordered to be burned, what was wrong with them? Is the Qur’an pure as believed by modern day Muslims? Since the decision to burn all other Qur’ans was politically motivated, the Qur’an of today reflects the political whims of early Muslim political leaders, not the prophet Muhammad. Questions like this will never be answered. But it is certain that the Qur’an of today is not the original Qur’an recorded only 2 years after Muhammad died.

you have been reading jagons from your likes websites if you need real history of Islam it is readily available for you. get your soul one.

Maamin:
I thought you as a Muslim believe Jesus did not die on the cross to begin with. Which of the Jesus spoke those Aramaic words on the cross again?

The Confusion your self proclaimed religion has put you in is cosmic.

1 corinthians 12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

My query is these: the guards were protecting the entrance of the tomb where Jesus body was laying after brought down from the cross to prevent the body of Jesus from been stolen dead or alive by his love ones

My Questioned; then why bribing the guards by the same authority and why should the guards lie that his body has been stolon (is this logical) is that not his primary assignment?

if the job of the authority guards of the Israelite was to protect the tomb from stealing the body of Jesus and the body could not be found on the Sunday morning then we should know that the guard are to be seriously dealt with for negligent of duty

but on the contrary, there were rewarded by bribing them, to lie that what? (something must be fishing)

My findings:from the bible
1.that Jesus can not die on cross just for 3hrs(bones of the others were broken because they were not dead yet, Jesus was never broken, why?)
2.that Jesus was in comma lay in the tomb (he was well beating, tired and then fainted and bible said he gave up spirit matt 27:50)
3.that he regain his conciseness and roll the stone on the entrance(spirit dose not need door to the tomb entrance.why rolled back the stone?)
4.that the guard were drunk and sleep off (there was wine for all including Jesus while on cross matt 27:34 & 48)
5.that he disguise and flee the scene to become a Gardner (ghost disguised! why?)
6.that the guard were later bribed to lie that Jesus has became ghost and escaped(resurrected) because that is the only way the guards and town chiefs could be vindicated (matt 28:12-15)

fellowman:
your Koran say Jesus was given birth to by a virgin.

Joseph was not his father but people thought he was his father.

thirdly how did God put the baby in Mary's belly did he give her something to swallow?
No, the Christian believe that God spirit went to her and she conceived. That's the explanation.

see yourself, i said bible gave him these father and you are telling me people thought,
address the 2 different contradictory genealogy of Jesus in the bible first.

fellowman:
Quran 66 vs 2

Quran 40 vs 28



Sahih Bukhari (50:369)

Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered.

Quran (3:28)
This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves" against danger, meaning that there are times when a Muslim may appear friendly to non-Muslims, even though they should not feel friendly.

attention seeker

Demmzy15:
Lol, Christians have been the ones killing and persecuting Jews throughout the century. In fact some Jewish scholars consider the first holocaust to be perpetuated by Christians when they conquered Jerusalem in the 11th century. They killed thousands of Muslims and Jews, these are facts. On the other hand, Muslims have protected them.



Unfortunately, it's exactly what you Christians do!



You exaggerate too much, Christians are around 2.5 billion. And show me where I stated all Christians hate Zionists, I never said such. Trump, Pence, Hillary are all Zionist Christians, read my posts well because posting. There are many Christians who are against this, some are Arabs others are Europeans.



Google is your friend my friend!

I see that your definition of Zionist is actually based on ignorance hence your evasive answer. I didn't ask you what google thinks (that's other peoples definition), I asked for YOUR OWN DEFINITION!

If Christians have killed Jews as you say, it had never been on the authority or instruction of Jesus nor the Bible.

However, your greatly esteemed prophet had been known to almost exterminate a whole community of Jews. Your prophet also forcefully consummated a marriage with a beautiful Jewish woman whose husband has been murdered by him.

We also have records of your wonderful compilation of hadith's how you Muslims on the instruction of Allah and his Messanger razed down Jewish settlement.

Do you want me to print them out in black and white for the whole world to see your ignorance?

I shake my head for you. If Christians compiled the hadith's, you would have said its a lie. Are your Beloved Buhari, Muslim ,Abudabi liars?

You can't rewrite the truth of history.

smoy:
Allah is the real name of Almighty God.
Al -Malik, Al- Qudus, Al -salam are the title and attribute of Allah.

Allah/ god is not a name, it's a title. Ur god should have
his personal name

cooljude:
Lol I am not a Muslim. I just realised that I would be wasting my time arguing things about religion with indoctrinated persons.

I did catechism and I know what I am saying. The church view of trinity is that nobody can comprehend it and that's why it's a mystery (St Thomas Aquinas, St Augustine etc). That is the same reason most Jews would tell you Christianity is very far from Judaism because it recognises a fellow Jew as God.

so you believe what you don't understand LOL

guy hahahaha. and you swallowed it Hook line and sinker.

cooljude:
Lol I am not a Muslim. I just realised that I would be wasting my time arguing things about religion with indoctrinated persons.

I did catechism and I know what I am saying. The church view of trinity is that nobody can comprehend it and that's why it's a mystery (St Thomas Aquinas, St Augustine etc). That is the same reason most Jews would tell you Christianity is very far from Judaism because it recognises a fellow Jew as God.

Hello
Catechism will not explain Trinity to you but it isn't something no one can comprehend. Here is a reply I gave a Muslim who asked this same question on NL. You can learn from it. Cheers!



Thanks for your post. I see that you understand my post which is good BUT contest the logic and the possibility which is also good. So, I will answer your query

Organs:
Hmm, I think we are still saying the same thing for the most part. two things are clear.

1. If you say Jesus is God and saviour, then all this becomes complicated and unexplainable and all you have to do is invoke "dogma" just believe.
Trinity has always been confusing and nobody has been able to explain that God is in three forms, or can take three roles, and at some point one part died for three days and it was then in two forms, then that part resurrected again.

No Sir! Trinity isn't a complex concept.

Now, God is complex and indescribable. However, we can only attempt to relate what God has revealed about Himself to our level of comprehension.
I will use 3 descriptions of explaining that Trinity doesn't invalidate the concept of oneness of God.
1. Matter exhibits a Duality nature:
Matter exist BOTH as a Wave and as a Particle at the same time. As a wave, matter has all the properties of a wave including interference, refraction, diffraction etc. Particles on the other hand has properties of mass, momentum, etc. In Classical physics it is impossible for a particle to exhibit properties of waves and vise versa. However, in Quantum physics, this is possible: so that electrons have a mass and yet behaves as waves.

This enigma is resolved by the "waves particle duality" theory of matter.

In other words, even in creation, not every thing is what it seems it is. If the created can be this complex, how much more the Creator. As a joke, I always tell my Muslim friends that they operate Islam in the Classical realm while Christianity operates in the Quantum realm.

That is if Duality makes sense in nature, Trinity certainly does.
2. Trinity of Man:
Actually, the closest description of the Trinity of God is the Trinity of Man. Man is made up of a Body, a Soul and a Spirit. Each one of this is fully you.
Body: Physical Identity (how you are recognized and relate in the physical realm.)
Soul: Internal Identity (how you recognize and relate to yourself).
Spirit: Spiritual Identity (how you are recognized and relate in the spiritual realm.)

Each one is fully you. Even in death, your body is referred still as YOU. If prophet Mohammed went to the heavens and saw Ibrahim, Jesus and the other prophets, doesn't it suggest that even though their bodies are decayed in their graves yet they are full humans?

That may partially answer your question of what happened when Jesus died.

3. Duality of Man in Islam:
Even though the concept of duality or trinity is not explicitly taught in Islam, we can infer the doctrine.

According to you Muslims, when a man dies, two angels will come to him and ask him three basic question
i. What is your religion?
ii. Who was your prophet?
iii. Who is your Lord?
If he replies appropriately as : Islam-Prophet Mohammed-Allah, his state in the grave would be made pleasant. Otherwise, it would be made difficult.

Now, can a person evade this by asking his family to burn him to smokes or if he was eaten completely by sharks?

I am sure you'll agree with me that the complete destruction of the body does not prevent these two angels from doing the needful. In that sense, with what ear will the dead hear the angels? With what mouth with the dead respond to the angels? With what body would the dead experience both torment or bliss as the case may be?

So, you see that at least, the duality of man is established even in Islam.

Organs:
No ShadeYinka, God said he is above all of that, God is divine, God is not man, cannot become man also, the holy spririt had always existed, read the old testament and not after Jesus ascended to heaven. Again, think about it, why will lucifer tell God the sun just bow to me and i will give you this this and this Think deeply about that... It can only make sense if Jesus is a prophet of God and not God the son. But, like a christian i asked said, lucifer will say anything? I dont get it, i will go to Buhari now and say, bow to me and i will make you President of Nigeria now now now.....Think about it deeply. You will understand. There is a documentary by theologians and Christains and professors, "who is Jesus" Look it up its a rich documentary and all the beliefs.

God is not a man: I agree
But God can become anything He wants except He isn't Omnipotent. If God brings himself down to the human level, He does it not for Himself (for He doesn't need to) but for the sake of man( through His love for him).

The Bible tells us that Satan didn't know either the identity nor the purpose of the coming of Jesus to earth.
I Corinthians 2: 7, 8 --
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes [Satan and all of his devil spirits] of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
The Messiah was to come but no one knew exactly how because the prophecies about Him presented Him as a king, prophet, son of God, AND at the same time as a Servant, Sacrifice, etc.
If Satan knew the identity of Christ, your argument is very very valid.

Organs:
2. Also, the sacrifice, do you absolutely believe that God will sacrifice himself (son) unto himself (Father) nailed on the cross amongst thieves and left there to die before he can forgive sin? ShadeYinka that is hard to swallow...... Unless that blood atonement of being nailed on the cross, imagine how painful that is and left hanging on that cross to dieelse he will not forgive the sin that adam and eve committed that i and you knew nothing about? And he equally said, the soul that sinneth shall die, the iniquity of the father is not on the son neither is the iniquity of the son on the father, the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him and....... My broda, think about it deeply.

Just as there are physical laws (gravity, entropy, genetic inheritance), there are spiritual laws. One of the pillars of spiritual laws is the "law of sin and death", " the law of redemption/blood sacrifice". The law of sin and death states that SIN against the almighty MUST be punished.

God is infinitely Mighty and Holy that violations to His will must receive the ultimate judgement "Death" (not annihilation). Now, because of this except justice is served, it violates the law of Justice of God.

What the scriptures teach us was that "Blood Sacrifice" was instituted by God as judgement substitute (for want of better words). Or why did God need the death of animals in the time of Prophet Ibrahim.

I agree, the concept of "Blood Sacrifice" is not taught in Islam (is it?). But it is a central concept in both Judaism and Christianity. Removing "Blood sacrifice" in both religions is as if the "oneness of allah)" is removed from Islam.
Hebrews 9:19-22
“When Moses had proclaimed every commandment of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. He said, “This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep.” In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin” .

So, the question of who the original institutor of is and why is a very fundermental question. There is not one single prophet common to both Islam and Christianity that did not make blood sacrifice.

But like I said, blood sacrifice is meaningless in Islam (probably abrogated).

The question of iniquities of the fathers not passing to the children should be taken in its context. I cannot commit armed robbery and my son be made to pay the price in God's judgement- That is the meaning.

Rom12:5
When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.

Let me explain. Its just like a promiscuous couple who caught HIV and then get pregnant. Of course the innocent child will likely catch HIV even though he wasn't even conceived when the acts of immorality was conducted by the parent. The plain truth about life is that we inherit a lot from our fore fathers (in the physical).

In other words, Our cravings for sin was as a result of Adam and Eve. The scriptures cannot be broken.

Organs:
One thing is certain, When Jesus came, the jews did not believe him and they did not move over to christianity because of his birth etc. Now, when the Prophet Mohammed came, the christians did not believe him and they did not move over because he is from the descendants of Ishmael, Haggai (slave girl and Abraham Union).

For a number of reasons.
1. Gal1:8
Even if we(the Apostles) or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a divine curse!

Islam was certainly different from the Gospel of Christ. So, you can understand our resistance against Islam.
2. Prophet Mohammed didn't bear the mark of a Prophet:
One of the greatest marks of a prophet was that God directly speaks to such. You can confirm from the Scriptures. In the bible, anyone could be spoken to by an angel eg Mary the Mother of Jesus, Samson's parents etc but it doesn't make them a prophet. The other part of it is supernatural powers to validate their message.
Even when these two are present, it doesn't guarantee that a prophet is accepted but at least, hey must be present in the life of the prophet of God.

This is a very long post. I wish we could reduce it to onebpoint at a time after your response.


Some of my answers to him may be irrelevant to your understanding.

fellowman:
This from the islamic Hadith

"Kanz Al Umal" (The Treasure of the Workers), in the chapter of "The issues of women", authored by Ali Ibn Husam Aldin, commonly known as Al-Mutaki Al-Hindi. He based his book on the hadiths and sayings listed in "Al-Jami Al-Saghir," written by Jalal ul-Din Al-Suyuti.
Narrated by Ibn Abbas:

"I (Muhammad) put on her my shirt that she may wear the clothes of heaven, and I SLEPT with her in her coffin (grave) that I may lessen the pressure of the grave. She was the best of Allah’s creatures to me after Abu Talib"… The prophet was referring to Fatima , the mother of Ali.

The Arabic scholar Demetrius explains : "The Arabic word used here for "slept" is "Id'tajat," and literally means "lay down" with her. It is often used to mean, "lay down to have sex." Muhammad is understood as saying that because he slept with her she has become like a wife to him so she will be considered like a "mother of the believers." This will supposedly prevent her from being tormented in the grave, since Muslims believed that as people wait for the Judgment Day they will be tormented in the grave.

You know, i have heard that Muhammed had sex with his daughter Fatima but i never came by a scripture to support it.

Wow. Empri, have you ever seen this?

Alao046:
you are still beating around the bush, you are yet to tell me the part of the Quran or the Hadith where it was stated that He had sex with a dead woman.

Here it is.

[b]This from the islamic Hadith
"Kanz Al Umal" (The Treasure of the Workers), in the chapter of "The issues of women", authored by Ali Ibn Husam Aldin, commonly known as Al-Mutaki Al-Hindi. He based his book on the hadiths and sayings listed in "Al-Jami Al-Saghir," written by Jalal ul-Din Al-Suyuti.
Narrated by Ibn Abbas:
"I (Muhammad) put on her my shirt that she may wear the clothes of heaven, and I SLEPT with her in her coffin (grave) that I may lessen the pressure of the grave. She was the best of Allah’s creatures to me after Abu Talib"… The prophet was referring to Fatima , the mother of Ali.
The Arabic scholar Demetrius explains : "The Arabic word used here for "slept" is "Id'tajat," and literally means "lay down" with her. It is often used to mean, "lay down to have sex." Muhammad is understood as saying that because he slept with her she has become like a wife to him so she will be considered like a "mother of the believers." This will supposedly prevent her from being tormented in the grave, since Muslims believed that as people wait for the Judgment Day they will be tormented in the grave.[/b]

Alao046:
Fatima is the daughter of the prophet, and his only survival of all his seven children. The prophet died before fatima, so where did you read that fatima died before the prophet and he had sex with her. I now know your problem, you are not knowledgeable just like your so called Jesus Christ that was killed and hanged on a cross like a pig. The so called God that couldn't help himself when he was slaughtered like a goat on the cross by ordinary humans. Christianity and ignorance are like 5 and 6.

Right here, you just attested that the Jesus of the koran is not the same as the Jesus Christ of the Bible. For the Jesus of the koran didnt die but was stolen by allah and hid where only him knows, but the Jesus Christ of the Bible died on the Cross.

And, i never knew that Pigs are hung on the cross.

shadeyinka:
We are saying the same thing. The servant of Allah (Abdallah) worshipped an idol. Dont forget that Allah had three daughters in the Kaaba then. You want their names?

Maybe i should help him

mujahid777:
Is that so
What else won't you moröns say

Isn't that your Hadith again? No be Jew right that o, na muslim. Mohammed pervert so tey have sex with a dead woman.

The sex demon wey possess that guy strong no be small.

shadeyinka:
The end justifies the means to you isn't it.
How is Polytheism defined in Islam? Associating partners with Allah! And you say Arabs worship Allah as Allah before Mohammed!?

They worshipped Allah as one of the idols (chief idols) in the Kaaba. You can't change history!

Just an evidence for you to know that the Arabs worshipped an idol called Allah. Their Allah had three daughters al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat: true or false
BUT,
The Allah of Mohammed does not have any child does he?

Two question above for your response please!

Can you find an equivalence in Islam?
You Muslims don't know other than rewriting history!

And, the Egyptians were not Arabs until Muslims went on killing spree to claim land and properties.

analize701:
And, the Egyptians were not Arabs until Muslims went on killing spree to claim land and properties.

Na so o, my sister.
Murderous individuals with the face of piousness.
Virus who invades and take over their hosts.

A better example is found in Libya: Ramadan doesnt curb their thirst for blood

analize701:
Maybe i should help him

Pls do. They don't ask questions

shadeyinka:
Hello
Catechism will not explain Trinity to you but it isn't something no one can comprehend. Here is a reply I gave a Muslim who asked this same question on NL. You can learn from it. Cheers!



Thanks for your post. I see that you understand my post which is good BUT contest the logic and the possibility which is also good. So, I will answer your query

No Sir! Trinity isn't a complex concept.

Now, God is complex and indescribable. However, we can only attempt to relate what God has revealed about Himself to our level of comprehension.
I will use 3 descriptions of explaining that Trinity doesn't invalidate the concept of oneness of God.
1. Matter exhibits a Duality nature:
Matter exist BOTH as a Wave and as a Particle at the same time. As a wave, matter has all the properties of a wave including interference, refraction, diffraction etc. Particles on the other hand has properties of mass, momentum, etc. In Classical physics it is impossible for a particle to exhibit properties of waves and vise versa. However, in Quantum physics, this is possible: so that electrons have a mass and yet behaves as waves.

This enigma is resolved by the "waves particle duality" theory of matter.

In other words, even in creation, not every thing is what it seems it is. If the created can be this complex, how much more the Creator. As a joke, I always tell my Muslim friends that they operate Islam in the Classical realm while Christianity operates in the Quantum realm.

That is if Duality makes sense in nature, Trinity certainly does.
2. Trinity of Man:
Actually, the closest description of the Trinity of God is the Trinity of Man. Man is made up of a Body, a Soul and a Spirit. Each one of this is fully you.
Body: Physical Identity (how you are recognized and relate in the physical realm.)
Soul: Internal Identity (how you recognize and relate to yourself).
Spirit: Spiritual Identity (how you are recognized and relate in the spiritual realm.)

Each one is fully you. Even in death, your body is referred still as YOU. If prophet Mohammed went to the heavens and saw Ibrahim, Jesus and the other prophets, doesn't it suggest that even though their bodies are decayed in their graves yet they are full humans?

That may partially answer your question of what happened when Jesus died.

3. Duality of Man in Islam:
Even though the concept of duality or trinity is not explicitly taught in Islam, we can infer the doctrine.

According to you Muslims, when a man dies, two angels will come to him and ask him three basic question
i. What is your religion?
ii. Who was your prophet?
iii. Who is your Lord?
If he replies appropriately as : Islam-Prophet Mohammed-Allah, his state in the grave would be made pleasant. Otherwise, it would be made difficult.

Now, can a person evade this by asking his family to burn him to smokes or if he was eaten completely by sharks?

I am sure you'll agree with me that the complete destruction of the body does not prevent these two angels from doing the needful. In that sense, with what ear will the dead hear the angels? With what mouth with the dead respond to the angels? With what body would the dead experience both torment or bliss as the case may be?

So, you see that at least, the duality of man is established even in Islam.



God is not a man: I agree
But God can become anything He wants except He isn't Omnipotent. If God brings himself down to the human level, He does it not for Himself (for He doesn't need to) but for the sake of man( through His love for him).

The Bible tells us that Satan didn't know either the identity nor the purpose of the coming of Jesus to earth.
I Corinthians 2: 7, 8 --
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes [Satan and all of his devil spirits] of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
The Messiah was to come but no one knew exactly how because the prophecies about Him presented Him as a king, prophet, son of God, AND at the same time as a Servant, Sacrifice, etc.
If Satan knew the identity of Christ, your argument is very very valid.


Just as there are physical laws (gravity, entropy, genetic inheritance), there are spiritual laws. One of the pillars of spiritual laws is the "law of sin and death", " the law of redemption/blood sacrifice". The law of sin and death states that SIN against the almighty MUST be punished.

God is infinitely Mighty and Holy that violations to His will must receive the ultimate judgement "Death" (not annihilation). Now, because of this except justice is served, it violates the law of Justice of God.

What the scriptures teach us was that "Blood Sacrifice" was instituted by God as judgement substitute (for want of better words). Or why did God need the death of animals in the time of Prophet Ibrahim.

I agree, the concept of "Blood Sacrifice" is not taught in Islam (is it?). But it is a central concept in both Judaism and Christianity. Removing "Blood sacrifice" in both religions is as if the "oneness of allah)" is removed from Islam.
Hebrews 9:19-22
“When Moses had proclaimed every commandment of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. He said, “This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep.” In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin” .

So, the question of who the original institutor of is and why is a very fundermental question. There is not one single prophet common to both Islam and Christianity that did not make blood sacrifice.

But like I said, blood sacrifice is meaningless in Islam (probably abrogated).

The question of iniquities of the fathers not passing to the children should be taken in its context. I cannot commit armed robbery and my son be made to pay the price in God's judgement- That is the meaning.

Rom12:5
When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.

Let me explain. Its just like a promiscuous couple who caught HIV and then get pregnant. Of course the innocent child will likely catch HIV even though he wasn't even conceived when the acts of immorality was conducted by the parent. The plain truth about life is that we inherit a lot from our fore fathers (in the physical).

In other words, Our cravings for sin was as a result of Adam and Eve. The scriptures cannot be broken.



For a number of reasons.
1. Gal1:8
Even if we(the Apostles) or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a divine curse!

Islam was certainly different from the Gospel of Christ. So, you can understand our resistance against Islam.
2. Prophet Mohammed didn't bear the mark of a Prophet:
One of the greatest marks of a prophet was that God directly speaks to such. You can confirm from the Scriptures. In the bible, anyone could be spoken to by an angel eg Mary the Mother of Jesus, Samson's parents etc but it doesn't make them a prophet. The other part of it is supernatural powers to validate their message.
Even when these two are present, it doesn't guarantee that a prophet is accepted but at least, hey must be present in the life of the prophet of God.

This is a very long post. I wish we could reduce it to onebpoint at a time after your response.


Some of my answers to him may be irrelevant to your understanding.

ShadeYinka: FYI: I did not reply because all what you explained might make sense to you but ofcourse not me or any muslim. I just did not want to pursue the arguement anymore but if you genuionly want to learn and understand, then please do and it will open your eyes. In Islam, God Almighty said "There is none like unto him God..... Hence your explanation is not correct. You dont understand God the way you understand for example a computer, if you know about electronics engineering or nature, grass, colours, texture etc, the only way to understand God is through his essence that he has thought us. Your brain is limited and does not have the capacity to understand God. The only way to understand God is through linguistic analogy. For example, in the Quran, suratul Fatiha God said he is the King of the day of Judgement, now you understand the essence of Kingship because in this world we have the lord of the house or the father, the President of nigeria, then we have the King of the day of judgement.... Islam's affirmation of Allah’s oneness and as such it negates all forms of polytheism and idolatry. This is very important because the foundation on which our faith is built is the absolute belief that Allah is One. Belief in One God entails certainty. Muslims worship Allah alone, He has no partners, associates, or helpers. Worship is directed solely to Allah, for He is the only One worthy of worship. Now. all your explanation is what Mankind has tried to do. They try to have something concrete to hold onto as God. It has always happened throughout history, that is why, Jesus that people experienced could feel, touch and relate to was over time equated to God. God is divine and man is man. God cannot become man in any way shape or form. God has all the attributes of perfection and so is his creation. He is it that everything depends on.

MightySparrow:
YHWH = Allah
YHWH is not to be compared with Allah.
YWHH is the Incomparable God..

Hallelujah

smoy:
you just repeating yourself.

for the Jesus who all know that has no father but bible gave him 2 contradictory genealogy only two names are in common of this long list (matt 1 and Luke3)
but Matthew gave him Joseph as father the same Matthew say he is child by the holy ghost and at the same time son of God, 3 farther what do you call such child in your local language ? every thing in Christianity is a guess work and confusion no certainty.

What have you said now?

olasaad:
I no but its just seems confusing. Some claims Jesus is Jew why other says he's a christian. So that is what I want clarity on.

Sister. Jews are a tribe of people, Christianity is a Faith not Tribe.

You are a Nigerian (i guess), but a muslim, not an Arab. That you are a muslim doesn't make you an Arab.

Jesus was a Jew. He didn't start a religion, He never came to give any one a religion. His message from start to finish was about A Kingdom and how to operate in that Kingdom.

Christianity as a name came as a result of unbelievers trying to disparage and stigmatize the followers of Christ. It was never meant for good. But the Christians took it and the reproach Satan's agents tried to tag them with Grace, just like we took the cross which was meant as a symbol of shame.

Agents of satan intended to tag us as Outcasts, Just like you call us Infidels or Kafir, we accept it gallantly. Na you shame go come catch.

juanomowa:
I came in with no invitation...apology.

Jesus is no Jew. In fact, I can say He has no religion. Though He was birthed among them, being Hebrew, but He didn't choose their way; hypocrisy, lies, etc. And He was hated. He doesn't regard their Laws too, 'Cuz they appeared futile to Him. And because of these He sets a new doctrine/religion, as it is written, 'Upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it'.

Christian simply mean follower of Christ or Christ- like, because He is the founder of Christianity.

Jesus can't be a Christian because the religion started after He left. And He wasn't a Jew (by religion; Judaism) for they did not accept Him cuz His ways is not theirs. And for these cause Muslims will say Jesus is a muslim. Because He followed the faith of Abraham, which is MONOTHEISM. Believing in One God.

I'm so weak at the moment, but I have try to explain that the way I can, presently.

A Jew is someone who comes from Judea. Jesus is a direct descendant of Judah the 4th son of Jacob, how is He not a Jew.

Is 'Jew' a religion or tribe?

Organs:
ShadeYinka: FYI: I did not reply because all what you explained might make sense to you but ofcourse not me or any muslim. I just did not want to pursue the arguement anymore but if you genuionly want to learn and understand, then please do and it will open your eyes. In Islam, God Almighty said "There is none like unto him God..... Hence your explanation is not correct. You dont understand God the way you understand for example a computer, if you know about electronics engineering or nature, grass, colours, texture etc, the only way to understand God is through his essence that he has thought us. Your brain is limited and does not have the capacity to understand God. The only way to understand God is through linguistic analogy. For example, in the Quran, suratul Fatiha God said he is the King of the day of Judgement, now you understand the essence of Kingship because in this world we have the lord of the house or the father, the President of nigeria, then we have the King of the day of judgement.... Islam's affirmation of Allah’s oneness and as such it negates all forms of polytheism and idolatry. This is very important because the foundation on which our faith is built is the absolute belief that Allah is One. Belief in One God entails certainty. Muslims worship Allah alone, He has no partners, associates, or helpers. Worship is directed solely to Allah, for He is the only One worthy of worship. Now. all your explanation is what Mankind has tried to do. They try to have something concrete to hold onto as God. It has always happened throughout history, that is why, Jesus that people experienced could feel, touch and relate to was over time equated to God. God is divine and man is man. God cannot become man in any way shape or form. God has all the attributes of perfection and so is his creation. He is it that everything depends on.

Hi my long time friend.
I am sorry, the post wasn't meant for you today. It was meant for someone else and I didn't want to write long epistle, so I reposted one of our last conversation.

However, I respond only to that I highlighted in your post. Is there anything impossible for God? Maybe, unconsciously you have limited His infinite Majesty by asserting that God CANNOT!

Is there anything IMPOSSIBLE for God?

juanomowa:
I knew it will come to that so I said Jesus is the creator of Christianity, He is not a Christian Himself. And He is not a Jew, He preached no religion and doesn't followed the Jewish Laws. For example, He doesn't care about their Sabbath, washing of hands and legs, etc

Hahahahahahahaha. You lied big time.

Jesus never failed to attend their Jewish Services in the Synagogues. He went to their Temples everyday to preach. He quoted freely from the Old Testament. He washed his feet and did to his Apostles too and asked us to continue doing it to each other.

The only people he stood against were the Pharisees who taught to pervert the Message God gave to Moses with the Traditions of men Just like the Catholic Church is doing now.

Pls srop lying.

1Sharon:
Interesting. So Judaism and Christianity that precede Islam are manmade but Islam isn't?

When anyone reading the Quran can tell its a pervertion of the Bible

Abeg ask him o.

Muslims, what is the name of your God?

BenzEne1:
I've talked with christians who usually criticize muslims for learning bible points to enable them argue comparatively.

Some of you here are quoting Quranic.verses and hadiths. This is good. It makes for a better discuss.

To your inquiry tho. Allah's names abound in the Qur'an. A typical example would be Surah Al fatiha verse 1. Ar.Rahman (The Most Gracious) and Ar Rahim (The Merciful) are both mentioned.
These are names of Allah. They are numerous. Al Majid, Al Ghaffar, Al Muhaymin.

Muslims are allowed to bear a variation of these names which.has a prefix of Abd or Abdul. This signifies our servitude to Allah. For example Abdul Razaq means servant of the Provider.

Those are attributes not names nah. For example, Jehovah Elohim, means the God who creates, it's not a name.

Jehovah Shalom, is the God of peace. BUT HIS PERSONAL NAME IS YHWH.

Now, what is Allah's personal name? For god is not a personal name of any deity. It's a Common noun classifying a worshipped deity which can be anything.

analize701:
Those are attributes not names nah. For example, Jehovah Elohim, means the God who creates, it's not a name.

Jehovah Shalom, is the God of peace. BUT HIS PERSONAL NAME IS YHWH.

Now, what is Allah's personal name? For god is not a personal name of any deity. It's a Common noun classifying a worshipped deity which can be anything.

What's the meaning of YHWH

BenzEne1:
Of course.they were Jews. That's just their tribe. They practiced monotheism tho. This is the monotheism that Muhammad was sent to perfect and name Islam. Islam means total submission to the will of Allah. Adam, the first man practiced this.

From then other prophet's have all preached monotheism and enjoined it on the people Allah sent them to. They were given books; Torah (David), Injeel or gospel (Jesus), Quran (Muhammad). This is why there seems to be similarity within these holy books.

However we believe that these books have been adulterated. And this is the reason that the Qur'an was sent down to all of mankind to set them on the straight part of monotheism once again.

You folks make it sound like Muhammad put together the religion of Islam. This is not true....

And Muhammad is no more than a messenger; the messengers have already passed away before him; if then he dies or is killed will you turn back upon your heels? Qur'an, 3:144

This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed my favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion. Qur'an, 5:3

I do have some sketchy points with my religion like the status of a woman in the religion but Islam still stands out amongst all.

Do you know who Waraqa Bin Nawal was?

He was an Uncle to Kadijat who insisted the being which almost strangled muhammed to death was not a demon but an Angel from the God of the Jews/Christians. She took her young husband to her uncle who wad the Balaam of his time (He was a catholic convert/a soothsayer) at the same time.

Waraqa mentored muhammed into plagiarising the bible, only, even him didn't get a good grip of the Bible.

Without Waraqa, there won't be islam or the koran.

So, yes, muhammed put the islamic together.

shadeyinka:
And being Jewish has nothing to do with religion.
As you rightly said, they were all Jews by tribe.
But,
1. If you look closely, you will discover that there is one fundermental difference between Jehovah the God of the Jews and Allah of Prophet Mohammed. And the difference is that while Jehovah loves the Jews with an everlasting love, Allah seems to hate the Jews with a passion. In fact, Allah seems to treat the Jews as strangers. I can give you references if you want.
2. There is one consistent ordinance in the religion of the Jews and even Christians that is absent in Islam: and that is Sacrifice of Blood for Atonement.

3. Since you said that Mohammed came to perfect the Monotheism of the Jews, in what ways? What was wrong with the monotheism of the Jewish religion


Were they really given books? And how?
For you Muslims don't ask questions.

David wrote part and also commissioned the Priests in the temple to write the Psalms (Zabura) . Psalms were songs of Praise and Worship used in the temple of God by the Jews. When David commited adultery, and was judged by God, he wrote a psalm of restoration (do not take your Holy Spirit from me..restore to me the joy of my salvation). So, it seems only Muslims do not know how the psalms (songs) came about but just with a fiat say David was given a book.

Moses wrote a chunk of the Pentateuch (Five Books) Genesis to Deuteronomy. He and the Levite Priests wrote a chronicle of Gods dealings with them and their experiences with Him. So, how was Moses given a book.

Jesus didn't even write a word of text even though He was literate. The Gospel is not a book it is a message of "Good News". The Goodnews that God has made a way of salvation for man as a free gift. A GoodNews that we can now have a new relationship as "Sons of God" with the Father. Jesus didn't come to establish a religion, He came to establish a relationship.


Actually, Mohammed put together the religion of Islam by taking what he feels convenient in Judaism and Christianity and mergon it with Arab cultures. I can give you evidences if you want.

You have made a claim promoted by the Muslims when they discovered gross contradictions between the Quran and the Bible.

Let's logically examine the fallacies in your statement.
There are questions to be asked in order to validate your statement
1. When did the original change
2. Who did the changing
3. What benefit did he gain from the altrations
4. Where was it changed
5. Where are the original copies
6. What are the adultrations

If someone was to tell you that the Books of William Shakespeare are fake, would you accept it without question? The only way one can validate an insinuation such as this is to ask the relevant question.

Even, Allah did not insinuate that anywhere in the Quran. Why should Allah be quiet over a fundermental issue such as this.

As I said earlier, the major weakness of Muslims is that they don't ask questions.




And Muhammad is no more than a messenger; the messengers have already passed away before him; if then he dies or is killed will you turn back upon your heels? Qur'an, 3:144

This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed my favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion. Qur'an, 5:3

I do have some sketchy points with my religion like the status of a woman in the religion but Islam still stands out amongst all.
Have you ever wondered why Mohammed was not accepted by the Jews to be a prophet?
He didn't have any mark/sign of a prophet.
Mohammed and his Allah decided to convert the Jews to Islam by FORCE (Convert to Islam (submit) or Pay the heavy Jizya).

Interestingly, this leads us exactly from where we started from. If the religions of the Jewish prophets was Islam, it means that Judaism is actually Islam. Then, why must a Jew convert from the Jewish Islam to Mohammed's Islam.

Since Muslims don't ask questions let me conclude by asking:
If Adam was a Prophet, who was he sent to? His children?

You just pursue this guy commot from here o.

Demmzy15:
Muslims hate Jews you say? We hate Zionists, we have Jews that hate Zionists, Christians hate Zionists also. Those you mentioned above are Muslims!

You mean Muslims who pretend to be Christians hate Zionists? Wow. I love Zionism. I love the Jews to dead. I'd rather i died in the hands of a Jew who hates me because am a Christian, than die in the hands of a muslim. Tufiakwa

smoy:
exactly, Islam is the only religion for all the prophets.

quran and bible cant be compared at all because the pure words of God is different from that of combination of man mad historian record of events, and for the bible, it suppose to be a book from God but unfortunately is not because the book that God gave Moses and the God gave Jesus are no where to be fund today only what we have is gospel according to Matthew, according to Mark, according to Paul, the question is where is the gospel according to Jesus.

lolzzzzz. The Bible is not a book like the koran, the Bible is a compilation of books. Will these people ever learn?

fellowman:
Uthman burned many Qur'ans (I wonder why this doesn't create many riots). Each of the Qur'ans burned were slightly different than his official version. Uthman, not wanting different opinions, then burn all versions he consider "false".

The thing is, how does he know that the version he burned is the false one and the one he keep is the correct one?

This means that drastic changes occurred. After all, "Why were the other copies and fragments ordered to be burnt? " The answer is found in the original statement: "Hudhaifa was afraid of the different recitations of the Qur'an "
Hudhaifa did not want different versions of the Qur'an.

Since all other copies of the Qur’an were ordered to be burned, what was wrong with them? Is the Qur’an pure as believed by modern day Muslims? Since the decision to burn all other Qur’ans was politically motivated, the Qur’an of today reflects the political whims of early Muslim political leaders, not the prophet Muhammad. Questions like this will never be answered. But it is certain that the Qur’an of today is not the original Qur’an recorded only 2 years after Muhammad died.

Good point.

Demmzy15:
I'll fight them for what they've done to the Muslims of Palestine, don't get me wrong there are thousands of Jews who are against this treatment, so I'm not against them. But the Zionists, I'm fully against them



Lol, as you can see, I've given you an example. There Christians who have stabbed and even hijacked planes because of the atrocities of Israel. Go and read before spouting rubbish, Jews are not chosen people. The greatest people in the sight of Allaah are those who have piety and fear with respect to him not child killers!

Demzy, when allah wrote in the koran that you fight and kill the Jews, was there a Palestine people? and had the Jews taken anything from the Muslims?

At what point did Arabs spread their territory to the so called Palestine?

shadeyinka:
Hi my long time friend.
I am sorry, the post wasn't meant for you today. It was meant for someone else and I didn't want to write long epistle, so I reposted one of our last conversation.

However, I respond only to that I highlighted in your post. Is there anything impossible for God? Maybe, unconsciously you have limited His infinite Majesty by asserting that God CANNOT!

Is there anything IMPOSSIBLE for God?

Oh Yes my good friend... All the things against the attributes of God is impossible for God to do. It is not limiting it is to describe the magnanimity of God and all these he mentioned. For example God supports the whole world and all therein and it is impossible for God to be tired, or feel fatigue. It is impossible for God to go to sleep, etc....All these things are impossible for God, like i said, they are not limiting, they are just our human limitations in our understanding of God. Remember our inability to comprehend God, is our comprehension of God.