₦airaland Forum

lukaino:
First, I want to thank the OP for this post.
I graduated from a polytechnic 16 years ago with an upper credit. I have been working for about 14yrs now, so I believe I have the necessary background and experience to give some sound advice on this subject.

The discrimination against HND graduates started with the government of Nigeria who rated the Bsc above the HND. This is very evident by the minimum qualifications often set by many government ministries, departments and agencies. For example, an HND holder cannot apply to an agency such as NERC while others who employ HND, make them juniors to Bsc holders regardless of experience.
This simply implies that the HND certificate was created by the government to play second fiddle in the labour market.

In the private sector, the situation is worse. The HND graduates are sought after by mostly Asian/ middle East companies (I. e Chinese, Indians & Lebanese) who give nothing but poor wages with harsh working conditions.

Being an HND graduate, places a limit on your eligibility for employment in blue chip companies. For example, Telecom, banking, IT, etc, have little or no place for you. And even if they employ you, they give you petty roles whereby your highest role would be an Assistant manager.

Trust me, the painful part of being an HND holder is when you find out that you can only apply for 4 out of 15 job openings. It's that bad.

In order to improve our chances of getting good jobs, most HND graduates(myself included) ended up seeking part time admissions into Universities to obtain Bsc certificates. Unilag for instance admits polytechnic graduates with lower credit to 100 level while upper credit HND holders get admitted to 300 level. (HND graduates always outshine others in class)

You can save yourself the trouble by not buying that polytechnic form while the government can save us all the trouble by either scrapping these polytechnics or upgrading them to become degree awarding institutions.

What an elder sees sitting down a child cannot see even if it climbs a tree.

I hope some children here would heed your counsel and desist from arguing blindly...

Truth be told most intellectual people dont rate HND.

and the most annoying part is that even the polytechnic will not employ HND graduate. They are like a producer of Pepsi that prefer to drink Cocacola

maestroferddi:
Point of correction: A polytechnic graduate is called a technician and NOT an engineer.


Quit using designations indiscriminately...

LMFAO. alright

OShepherd:
How can one do that sir

Even at KWASU there is three semester HND top up programme where they do HND to Bsc conversion

Marcelo290:
So much hard truths in one post. If polytechnics want to measure up with the University, they should make their entry requirements same as well as many other things that have been said. For now, it is more like a dumping ground for those rejected in the University, unless you still intend to acquire a degree which would give you an edge.

I remember how I wrote Jamb several times and struggled to enter the University, I knew my mates that went to the Polytechnic after a trial out of frustration because of "My mates are all in school" mentality. Polytechnic is good for technical and engineering courses as it can get you self employed. Even at that, an Engineering University graduate is still ahead of you because he gives directions while the technicians carry out the practical duties.

In conclusion, get the fùcking degree!!

What about the federal university and state university discrimination?

What the OP is saying is actually the truth. He is not comparing both certificates, but trying to educate those looking forward to obtain the HND certificate in future. Lot of people on here are saying certificate does not determine your success (not in Nigeria), yes they are right, but do you know that if one certificate (BSc) opens a door for you to a big company that pays well, becoming successful will be faster than when you are denied employment because you are having one certificate(HND) that employers feel is "rubbish".

My experience:
I applied for an Engineering job (well, the advert only specified first degree holders to apply, and since HND is "equivalent" to a degree in Nigeria, I applied). I passed the first stage, and at the second stage we were meant to face another interview panel. The interview process was going on well until the last guy (who happens to be the head of the panel) spotted my qualification and the following
ensues.

Interviewer: You are a HND holder
Me: Yes
Interviewer: This position is for BEng/BSc holder, are you aware of that?
Me: Well, the advert stated that only first degree holders should apply, and according to the law HND is "equivalent" to BSc( first degree), hence the reason I applied as the advert never stated BSc/BEng/BTech or a University degree.

Interviewer:Looked at the advert and smiled; you are brilliant. If I may ask, why did you go to a Polytechnic, why not a University?
Me: To be trained as an Engineer/Technologist, which to the best of my knowledge I believe I have acquired what it takes to start a career in the field of Engineering to be precise.

The entire panel: smiled (because that was not the answer they were expecting).

Interviewer: Well, from your reply and result it shows that you are a brilliant guy, but you shouldn't be here because you should have been told last two weeks(at the first stage of the interview) that this job is for a degree holder, and is with regret that despite the fact that you have impress us (other members of the panel nodding their heads in agreement) we cannot employ you, not that you are not brilliant. Among those we have interviewed today I'll say that you are among the best and if not for your certificate (HND) you would have been scheduled to meet with the MD for a final discussion, but is with regret that your application will not be processed further to the final stage(The guy was straight to the point).

This happened in 2008, but do you guys know what? Despite my experience(s) I've never regretted attending or passing through a Polytechnic.

I think HND should be scrapped and Polytechnic should be allowed to run National Diploma only or better still , Polytechnics should be allowed to run a straight five years programme and award BEngTech (this is a degree that no institution in Nigeria is awarding right now) and their nomenclature be changed from[b] Polytechnic to University of Applied Technology.[/b].

It is good to upgrade in case a better offer comes it will not stand as a barrier. For the HND holders in Engineering, we have the following schools with top up were u can convert HND to Degree
KWASU
University of South Africa
University of Portsmouth
University of Port Harcourt
Bells University of Technology
Federal university of Petroleum Resources
PTI Degree program in affiliation with University of Port Harcourt

I thought there was a time d lawmakers abolished dt discrepancy

Fongido:
What about the federal university and state university discrimination?

A topic for another day.
This one is another subject entirely.
But it is not that serious like HND and Bsc wahala.

Boscolo:
What the OP is saying is actually the truth. He is not comparing both certificates, but trying to educate those looking forward to obtain the HND certificate in future. Lot of people on here are saying certificate does not determine your success (not in Nigeria), yes they are right, but do you know that if one certificate (BSc) opens a door for you to a big company that pays well, becoming successful will be faster than when you are denied employment because you are having one certificate(HND) that employers feel is "rubbish".

My experience:
I applied for an Engineering job (well, the advert only specified first degree holders to apply, and since HND is "equivalent" to a degree in Nigeria, I applied). I passed the first stage, and at the second stage we were meant to face another interview panel. The interview process was going on well until the last guy (who happens to be the head of the panel) spotted my qualification and the following
ensues.

Interviewer: You are a HND holder
Me: Yes
Interviewer: This position is for BEng/BSc holder, are you aware of that?
Me: Well, the advert stated that only first degree holders should apply, and according to the law HND is "equivalent" to BSc( first degree), hence the reason I applied as the advert never stated BSc/BEng/BTech or a University degree.

Interviewer:Looked at the advert and smiled; you are brilliant. If I may ask, why did you go to a Polytechnic, why not a University?
Me: To be trained as an Engineer/Technologist, which to the best of my knowledge I believe I have acquired what it takes to start a career in the field of Engineering to be precise.

The entire panel: smiled (because that was not the answer they were expecting).

Interviewer: Well, from your reply and result it shows that you are a brilliant guy, but you shouldn't be here because you should have been told last two weeks(at the first stage of the interview) that this job is for a degree holder, and is with regret that despite the fact that you have impress us (other members of the panel nodding their heads in agreement) we cannot employ you, not that you are not brilliant. Among those we have interviewed today I'll say that you are among the best and if not for your certificate (HND) you would have been scheduled to meet with the MD for a final discussion, but is with regret that your application will not be processed further to the final stage(The guy was straight to the point).

This happened in 2008, but do you guys know what? Despite my experience(s) I've never regretted attending or passing through a Polytechnic.

I think HND should be scrapped and Polytechnic should be allowed to run National Diploma only or better still , Polytechnics should be allowed to run a straight five years programme and award BEngTech (this is a degree that no institution in Nigeria is awarding right now) and their nomenclature be changed from[b] Polytechnic to University of Applied Technology.[/b].

BEngTech okay Engineering Technician.
However BEng is Bachelor of Engineering and a lot of schools award that in Nigeria. FUTA for example, awards B.Eng for Engineering courses

lukaino:
First, I want to thank the OP for this post.
I graduated from a polytechnic 16 years ago with an upper credit. I have been working for about 14yrs now, so I believe I have the necessary background and experience to give some sound advice on this subject.

The discrimination against HND graduates started with the government of Nigeria who rated the Bsc above the HND. This is very evident by the minimum qualifications often set by many government ministries, departments and agencies. For example, an HND holder cannot apply to an agency such as NERC while others who employ HND, make them juniors to Bsc holders regardless of experience.
This simply implies that the HND certificate was created by the government to play second fiddle in the labour market.

In the private sector, the situation is worse. The HND graduates are sought after by mostly Asian/ middle East companies (I. e Chinese, Indians & Lebanese) who give nothing but poor wages with harsh working conditions.

Being an HND graduate, places a limit on your eligibility for employment in blue chip companies. For example, Telecom, banking, IT, etc, have little or no place for you. And even if they employ you, they give you petty roles whereby your highest role would be an Assistant manager.

Trust me, the painful part of being an HND holder is when you find out that you can only apply for 4 out of 15 job openings. It's that bad.

In order to improve our chances of getting good jobs, most HND graduates(myself included) ended up seeking part time admissions into Universities to obtain Bsc certificates. Unilag for instance admits polytechnic graduates with lower credit to 100 level while upper credit HND holders get admitted to 300 level. (HND graduates always outshine others in class)

You can save yourself the trouble by not buying that polytechnic form while the government can save us all the trouble by either scrapping these polytechnics or upgrading them to become degree awarding institutions.

I appreciate you sir for the contributions, Thanks for shedding more light to the matter.

The problem we have in this country is that, people that even went to the university don't even get job. The best thing is to be self employed or learn a trade.

simplebb:
Since a lot of people will view this thread, I copied this article from nairaland concerning d same dichotomy, it answers the reason for the discrimination and the difference between HND and BSc certificate.

Read painstakingly;

Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them
With Bsc Third Class. by fratermathy ( m): 2:10pm On Nov
10 , 2015
This is getting too old and stale.
While I do not support totally embarrassing HND graduates
and denying them of promotions, appointments and a
chance to make a successful career, it should be noted that
HND and B.Sc/B.A/B.Agric/B.Tech/LL.B/B.Fisheries/MBBS/
DVM are different and the dichotomy must be emphasised.
HND is a technical diploma. It is technically not even a
Degree but a National Diploma. B.Sc and its other
appellations are the recognised standard for academic,
theoretical and career based jobs and appointments. That is
not to say HND cannot be used. It is just that HND is better
off for handy middle-levelled and technical jobs/careers.
The whole essence of HND is to make sure that there are
middle-levelled skilled people in the society that can be
called upon and relied on for their technical expertise.
University graduates are seen as having done a theoretical
study with much intellectual rigour and are, thus, deemed to
have a high intellectual acuity for certain professions and
careers. This must be known and not relegated. No matter
how much sentiments come in and no matter how much we
try to equate these certifications, the sacrosanct fact is that
they are not the same. As long as one is a "Diploma" and
another is a "Degree", they can NEVER be treated equal and
same.
On the issue of Shell equating HND with Third Class, I have
iterated in the previous paragraph that HND is not seen as an
intellectually inclined degree but rather as a technically
inclined diploma. Having a Distinction in HND only proves
that you have an excellent technical expertise, perhaps even
beyond that of University Degree holders. However, this
does not translate into the fact that you are intellectually
buoyant enough to stand a University First Class product. It
doesn't add up. For one, our Nigerian Polytechnics operate a
4 points GPA system as opposed to the 5 Points used in our
Nigerian varsities. Secondly, the units of courses taken in
HND programmes are far lower, both individually and
cumulatively, when compared with a University. Thirdly, the
course contents in Polytechnics are peripheral and
elementary as opposed to that of a University! Fourthly, the
calibre of academic staff and their standing is much lower
than that of a University. For one, a Polytechnic cannot have
a Professorial Cadre! Polytechnics usually have substandard
facilities and make-shift labs and instruments. All these
come together to haunt the graduates of Nigerian
Polytechnics!
The solution to all these bifurcations is easy. Polytechnics
should be made to award a B.Tech rather than an "Ordinary"
or "Higher" diploma. Polytechnic facilities should be
overhauled and made to standards. The Professorial Cadre,
alongside its competitive and cumbersome "floating"
process, should be introduced to the Polytechnics.
Polytechnics should employ the 5 or more Points GPA
system and courses should be well developed, standard and
carry higher units! In fact, the term "Polytechnic" should be
hijacked from parlance and replaced with University of
Technology or any other soothing appellation. We should
always strive to follow the UK pattern in our technological
pedagogical system.
Finally, on the issue of ostracization and stigmatization, I
believe it is only Nigerian Legislative Bodies that can end
this once and for all. As long as they are comfortable with it,
nothing will change! Let's just stop flogging this issue and
look forward to better things! This issue has been discussed,
ignited and quenched severally since Nigerian employers'
decisions to employ preferential treatments! It is time we
either take drastic measures or simply let it go as we have
always done.
To save yourself of future headache, get a university degree.

I don't discriminate/look down on people, but this is the gospel truth.

nobody wan go poly now.....lolz...na unto say we no get choice ooooo......make we turn metusella for house?most of us can't afford state University and federal University re tough to enta(without proper connection and sometimes favor)......un less u wan study"pastural management"....lolz.....


so u think say if Dem gimme University admission I no go go

simplebb:
This discussion has generated lot of arguments. I was expecting that, the polytechnic graduates will try a lot to rubbish or equal themselves to their university counterparts. It is normal, it is a psychological Twist just to boost up their own ego. The truth is nobody wakes up early in life and pray to attend polytechnics, it is just a dumping ground for university rejected folks.

Certificate doesn't determine success, it is about your determination, being diligent, dedicated, mindset and prayers. That I know but op has said the right thing, certificate goes a long way too, it is one side of the two sides of a coin and getting it right in that aspect matters. This is Nigeria, The firm I worked during IT, the University engineering graduates were paid far better than the polytechnic engineer (current reality) , I posted an article that explains the difference, a diploma is different from a degree, let that sink in, rarely will u see applications that call for HND graduates in GT. No wonder shell and other top firms equate it to Third class Bsc. My current place of work is an engineering firm, a top one in Abuja and they don't even employ any HND graduates.

The sad truth we can't shy away from, the dichotomy can't end even if the government equates the two today, firms will still go for Bsc over HND. You can't just sit down and compare the two.

Even when it comes to scholarship for undergraduates and postgraduate rarely will u see for HND or poly students, PTDF, shell, Chevron etc are for university students and graduates.


This debate will go on and on, for those trying to rubbish universities first class products, you guys should continue but try remembering you dump to polytechnic because u can't pass the entrance examinations.

To compare HND to BSc is to say the polytechnic is the same as university and that's talking with tongue in one cheek.

spare the debate and let's move on to other things. if you are already in polytechnic, face your studies, graduate with good grade, get professional courses and try to get your masters and come and join the hustle. But if u are just through with ND or just seeking admission.


GET A UNIVERSITY DEGREE......

Whether Education is scam or not, Get a University degree and don't listen to crap.

Gbam. God bless you

someone very close to me was a contract staff in a bank for 7 years. However I encouraged him to do a part time degree programme at Oou during the period. Luckily for him, the very year the bank did conversion for some of its contract staff who had Bsc was the year he got his degree cert. Today he's professional staff in their audit department. He has also done some certifications.

The advice is this: if you're employed as a contract staff with HND, immediately enrol for part time degree programme. I reccommend OOU. Their part time programme is fast but somewhat expensive.

maestroferddi:
Point of correction: A polytechnic graduate is called a technician and NOT an engineer.


Quit using designations indiscriminately...

I think they are called technologist just like in Canada or the US.
Technicians are journeypersons in trades.

simplebb:
BEngTech okay Engineering Technician.
However BEng is Bachelor of Engineering and a lot of schools award that in Nigeria. FUTA for example, awards B.Eng for Engineering courses

BEngTech: Bachelor of Engineering Technology is a field of study that focuses on the applications of engineering and modern technology in areas such as product improvement, manufacturing, construction, and engineering operational functions.

Let's stop deceiving ourselves and say the truth.
Most banks employ HND graduates than BSC because they have the experience due to their exposure back in school.
Most unemployed or unemployable graduates are BSC holders because even to write a formal letter they can't.

The bottomline is go get a skill and forget these bsc stuff except you you want to remain unemployed for life and still at home during mama put,mama thank you.

WHIZKIDEFE:
I don't know about others, but for me, i don't think being successful depends on University/Polytechnic certificate.
.
I believe, if you are the best in whatever you do plus hardwork, determination and the Grace of God, you will be successful.
.
I have seen where a HND graduate was made head over 1st class staffs and co.
.
I have seen where a HND graduate conducted interview for 1st class graduates n co who were on queue to work for him.
.
Your mindset(thoughts), actions and inaction, makes or mar you.
Always Be Positive! (ABP) *smiles

woow u r d only sensible person av seen here so far. May God continue to enrich u

salford1:
I think they are called technologist just like in Canada or the US.
Technicians are journeypersons in trades.

Whatever but they are no engineers.

LibertyRep:
If you are not self employed already and would be seeking for employment after your program, please I beg you in the name of whatever you worship, don't buy that HND form.

Don't make that mistake. Buy Direct Entry form or buy UTME form to start afresh at a conventional University. You also have the opportunity of approaching any Open University study center close to you and explore the opportunities therein available. All of these would eventually make you get a University degree. Worry less about the number of years and fund involved. Please don't buy that HND form.

Don't be fooled by those who will tell you that you can always proof your worth on the field. See, the truth is that you may not even be given the opportunity to proof anything at all. A large percentage of Nigerian employers including the government worship certificates and there isn't any traces that they might change any soon.

Take for instance, Ogun government commenced the sale of ASCON forms for the employment into the civil service of the state and HND holders are barred from partaking in the exercise. Even if you make it to the civil service through other avenues, there's is a level beyond which you can't rise because of your HND background. Why would you want to be subjected to such ridicule? Don't buy that form!


You may also be thinking of doing PGD, Masters and PhD later on. Well some universities wouldn't let you pass the Masters stage. LASU for Instance specifically stated that MED holders with HND and PGDE background are not eligible to apply for PhD. You see, the discrimination is huge and you wouldn't like it later on. Please drop the idea of the HND form.

What I don't understand is why the government and others in charge of our education have not scrapped these Polytechnics. Why would they allow them to churn out products that are not accorded the right respect in the society? Scrap the Polytechnics or at best stop them from awarding HND Certificates forthwith

Don't get carried away with the fact that HND holders are also called graduates and are allowed to partake in the NYSC scheme. See, the euphoria of their 'graduates' status expires with NYSC. If you doubt me, try to pick up a masters form with your HND after your NYSC. The discrimination is huge and you wouldn't like it.

Whilst it is true that some HND holders are doing very very well in their various fields, their percentage is also very very small compared to those battling with the ridiculous discrimination both in public and private establishments. Why would you therefore allow yourself experience such mockery after spending five years pursuing the certificate. (2 years for ND, 1 year for IT and another 2 years for the HND)

It is good to be educated but please be educated properly at least In Nigeria's context. This is because the most ridiculed certificate in Nigeria now is the HND Certificate.

Again, if you don't have a business of your own and would be seeking employment later on, don't buy that HND form. My two cents.

Since 2003, when I graduated with my HND in accountancy, I have not had any reason to regret ever going to Polytechnics. Later, I enrolled for ICAN and qualified in a very short period. Why some people have continued screaming discrimination is what I don't understand.
If you allow the school to go through you while in school, no door, I mean no door will be shut against you.
Go for your HND if you have the means.

When God's favour shine upon u, a HND holder will rule over a Bsc holder. If u like read up 2 d highest level of education, u will only b where God wants u to b. Av seen polytechnic graduates doing well Dan Bsc holders. U can't judge this case due to diff experience of yours. Do u wanna tell me all HND holders r not well to do/ discriminated? If God wants u to b in poly n u decide to go 2 a uni, my dear, get ready 4 regrets. Cos it happened to som1 doesn't mean it gonna happen 2 d rest....

joyjacob002:
woow u r d only sensible person av seen here so far. May God continue to enrich u

If you are a graduate and you typed this, then I pity your education, a thread that a lot of people have dropped their contributions without insulting or hitting out indirectly at others and u now posted that u can see only one sensible person. I wouldn't have replied you but I just pity whosoever will deal with someone like you. Your school didn't train you in character and you didn't have it neither.

Next time, comment only to the post and don't make such disrespectful comment.......

nigeria is just a stupid country, a friend of mine did HND in nigeria, used same HND to apply for nova scotia provincial nominee in canada in 2016, he is still using the same HND to work outside the shores of this God forsaken country and was able to be sending vehicles to nigeria for sale here.
so lets forget about the HND-BSC bullcrap and pray that the thieves up there will industrialize nigeria one day

joyjacob002:
woow u r d only sensible person av seen here so far. May God continue to enrich u

AMEN o. i feel flattered by your comment (see as e make my head big) lol.. May success fall on you!

[quote author=Excellentmind post=63368018]Since 2003, when I graduated with my HND in accountancy, I have not had any reason to regret ever going to Polytechnics. Later, I enrolled for ICAN and qualified in a very short period. Why some people have continued screaming discrimination is what I don't understand.
If you allow the school to go through you while in school, no door, I mean no door will be shut against you.
Go for your HND if you have the means.[/quote
don't mind dem jare. Just wanted HND holders av inferiority complex. Wat is d essense of Bsc result u av n can't prove It? Continue wasting ur tym waiting 4 admission in d uni.

Gluthatione:
Gbam. God bless you

Amen and you too.

At this junction, enough have been said. It is now every Man on its own. The op has stated his own side of the story and likewise everyone has both in support and against the topic. Thanks to everyone for the meaningful contributions. I pray we will all get to the top.
To the younger ones reading this, please make the best decision for yourselves now so that you won't have regret in the future don't be in a hurry and never celebrate mediocrity.
Had I know won't be your portion.

I rest my case.

raindrop99:
Lallasticalla pls move this to front page for more review.
Chai.. I was just offered admission for HND program and now am scared

actually must firms or companies prefer HND holders than the BS.c holders because they can meet their payment requirements;thus giving the HND holders employment opportunities, so there's nothing to be scared of.

Ochinex:
O.P. this is so true .

I am in Level 400.
I remember being on holidays and decided to engage myself into teaching to get my self busy. When I passed the interview, the principal gave me the salary script, it was like

ND = 18,000
HND= 19,000
B.sc = 28,000

Because I haven't finished school, and I negotiated with her and we ended 25000.

Many HND teacher there who have stayed for many years still haven't think of collection the salary I collected.
And I was to serve for just that term

Very bad

please modify.

predmine20:
Let's stop deceiving ourselves and say the truth.
Most banks employ HND graduates than BSC because they have the experience due to their exposure back in school.
Most unemployed or unemployable graduates are BSC holders because even to write a formal letter they can't.

The bottomline is go get a skill and forget these bsc stuff except you you want to remain unemployed for life and still at home during mama put,mama thank you.

Why are you sounding off?


Whiich bank in Nigeria prefer HND to a degree?

Where is discrimination against HND more acute than in banking?

Most HND holders employed by banks end up either as contract staff or as tellers. Their career advancement/prospect hardly compares with their degree counterparts.

No elite bank would take an HND holder in lieu of a degree holder.

Do even consider the treatment the HND boss gets from degree-holding subordinates in the corporate space? Just denigration.

We all know how it feels when hear citations about qualifications/resume...You were keen to follow rendition of that achiever's accomplishments until the exercise hits a trough/anticlimax....HND? You are like, why now...The esteem takes a hit.
Dont walk into an HND trap...You will only have yourself to blame.