macof:
All your maps ..none support your argument
stop spamming with links that have nothing to do with the thread...that should get you ban sef

historyworld031:
So now you are telling obvious lies ?!
Why would you tell such a lie while everybody can check the map and see that you are lying ?
Is this what they teach you in "yoruba history" ?
Anybody can check the maps and see Benin written all over Lagos.
When you use proof to debunk the claim of a yoruba, you get banned.

macof:
look at this piece of trash who is still trying to find his way in life. you must be an idiotic slowpoke

macof:


see mr. doctor turned historian

oya tell us how to tell african history since the real historians are wrong according to you

and answer my earlier question - mention 3 historians who are more recognized than Akintoye in African studies particularly Yoruba concentrated History. To just do justice to this post, lemme add that Oral history is the foundation of the discipline of History, before anything is ever written in a book as a historical text, it passes around first - Orally!
The legendary father of History - Herodotus relied greatly on orally passed information, so did ibn Battuta

shut up about this europe nonsense; as i said before, I'm sure you are not in Europe but some village in Edo or Delta state spewing trash cause data is cheap in Nigeria

it doesnt matter what oduduwa is to you, what matters is what experts think, you are not relevant...sorry!

SicilianMafia:


Don't bother quoting me I already know you are intellectualy deficient .....Imbeciles

historyworld031:
So now you are telling obvious lies ?!
Why would you tell such a lie while everybody can check the map and see that you are lying ?
Is this what they teach you in "yoruba history" ?
Anybody can check the maps and see Benin written all over Lagos.
When you use proof to debunk the claim of a yoruba, you get banned.

Morenikeji900:
thanks bro don't mind that foolish medicine guy saying trash Bleep Edo people Yoruba have no business with does nitwit and dotard people

historyworld031:
The video is just a video.
The poet is merely saying things which were recorded by the portuguese or which took place during the war against the british empire.
These are recorded and easilly verrifyable things even backed by the bronz which you see in the background (that is also history).
These are not "oral history".
Checkout the maps, that is the most important.

macof:
im just indulging him for fun, I'm convinced by the content of his posts that he is not a medicine student , neither did he study in France, fake life proponent on faceless forum

But I would not encourage the insult on Edo people in general, while a lot are truly unexposed and unintelligent, some are better off...consider also that many modern Edos are Yoruba descendants
Be better than them by not resorting in petty ethnic rumbles

RedboneSmith:
The Europeans didn't even know about the geography,etc, of much of Africa apart from a few ports on the coast and a tiny number of the towns in its immediate hinterland until the late 19th century and the 20th century.

Consequently, most of their early maps were not even accurate, but based on conjectures and hearsay. I noticed, for example, that one of your maps purportedly from the 17th century, implies that 'Benin Regnvm' stretched eastwards as far as Rio del Rey in Western Cameroons. That is quite simply not true.


Let me not even talk about this phantom 'Kingdom of Biafra' they always place in the general Eastern Nigeria-Cameroon area.

RedboneSmith:
The Europeans didn't even know about the geography,etc, of much of Africa apart from a few ports on the coast and a tiny number of the towns in its immediate hinterland until the late 19th century and the 20th century.

macof:
smh. Keep seeing what isn't there, soon you start seeing things everywhere. Your links ,every single one, including the video remains a spam as it only carries irrelevant information

Why not upload the maps and highlight where bini is portrayed to have dominion of the Lagos area

Morenikeji900:
good to hear this from you bro but i have a question why (!!!do!!!) people always jealous we (!!!!!us!!!!!) the Yorubas? Why do they like to disturb our western lands

macof:
im just indulging him for fun, I'm convinced by the content of his posts that he is not a medicine student , neither did he study in France, fake life proponent on faceless forum

But I would not encourage the insult on Edo people in general, while a lot are truly unexposed and unintelligent, some are better off...consider also that many modern Edos are Yoruba descendants
Be better than them by not resorting in petty ethnic rumbles

historyworld031:

The common denominator among the yorubas is that you like conspiracy theory more than diabetese likes sugar.
I give you multiple maps drawn by various individuals of various nationality, all trying to write down as much information as possible in order to help them and their people in their trade with our ancestors. Then here you are telling new stories which can only be classiified as conspiracy theory once again. What is so difficult in proving each claim you make, why do yoruba never get that point at all, you guys make one claim after the other and never ever think of proving your claims.

The maps prove without any doubt that Lagos was part of the Benin Kingdom.

I like how you are able to say a map drawn in 1699 (about the situation of west africa in 1699) is inaccurate and you base your comment on which superior document ? The worse is that it is not just one map there are more than a dozen made by different people who visited our ancestors and they all show the same thing.
The map is a photo of the past, if you don't like the truth then take that up with those who fed you lies all your life.
You can't discount evidence based on your feelings.

Look, in order to claim this:

Either you bring proof either you show me proof that you invented a time machine.
I am not even going to dig into the debate, let us just take care of the logics of your comments.
You have hundreds of people drawing something and their drawings all show the same thing and then hundreds of years later a "timetraveller" (you) is here to say that their drawing was based on heresay and they knew nothing of what they were drawing.
It is so weird that you are the same people who consider unsubstantited stories to be history.

And for your info I am in france, these maps are very important in europe and they are taken very seriously.
In europe they don't have the mental disability which the likes of you keep showing.
These maps are so important that they are kept in the best european libraries, real historians like the ones in europe base their research on these documents rather than on stories which you call "oral history".

macof:


Tell that to your family members that have not impacted anything good in your life. Low life thrash too wants to be heard

RedboneSmith:


I am not Yoruba. So I don't know what you mean by 'You guys'. I am from Delta. Unlike you, I have no motive to be non-objective in this issue.



Er. No. None of your maps explicitly shows Lagos as a part of Benin. One map actually indicates 'Ichoo' (Eko, a.k.a, Lagos) as being west of Benin, with no indication that the former was a dependency of the latter. But even if the maps did show Lagos was within Benin's political hegemony, so what? Professor Akintoye didn't doubt Benin holding sway over Lagos at some point. So what really is your point?

historyworld031:
I don't have time to go through your lengthy write up, I hope disproving your main claim will push your sense of decency to appologize and stop trying to discount evidence based on your feelings, hte talk about the river niger shows how biased you are. How important is that in a map made by traders whose only use was to show the Existing Kingdoms and their geogrpaphical locations in other to make it easy to get in contact with the Kingdoms and to trade with them ? Or did you expect that the medieval european traders should have used hellicopters to make their maps or perharps you thought they should have set foot on every inch of land, making maps doesn't work like that my friend. All that matters in such maps are the border lines. And the location of the capitals.

You don't seem to get one fact: Benin Kingdom was not just in "political controle of Lagos", Lagos was part of Benin Kingdom.
And this map which is one of those I posted clearly has written "Van Icho Benin on Lagos":
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b/f1.item.r=Benin.zoom

Now I expect your applogies.

historyworld031:
I don't have time to go through your lengthy write up, I hope disproving your main claim will push your sense of decency to appologize and stop trying to discount evidence based on your feelings, hte talk about the river niger shows how biased you are. How important is that in a map made by traders whose only use was to show the Existing Kingdoms and their geogrpaphical locations in other to make it easy to get in contact with the Kingdoms and to trade with them ? Or did you expect that the medieval european traders should have used hellicopters to make their maps or perharps you thought they should have set foot on every inch of land, making maps doesn't work like that my friend. All that matters in such maps are the border lines. And the location of the capitals.

You don't seem to get one fact: Benin Kingdom was not just in "political controle of Lagos", Lagos was part of Benin Kingdom.
And this map which is one of those I posted clearly has written "Van Icho Benin on Lagos":
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b/f1.item.r=Benin.zoom

Now I expect your applogies.
By the way, your claimed non yorubaness has no relevance and also might just be a lie.
What matters are your methods, and pooing on hard evidence while favouring mere tales with no evidence shows a huge bias in you.
I only state things which I can actually prove, expecting a medieval map to be perfect is nonsensical, of what relevance was the flow of the river niger to the traders ?
It seems obvious that discrediting the map is your main duty, you are not objectif in anny way, you are looking for typo mistakes to throw the disturbing evidence away. Claiming that it is only around colonization that the european finally got it right is yet an other claim with no evidence.
An objectif person claims only what he can prove.

RedboneSmith:



You posted a long response to my comment. I assumed you were scholarly and responded in kind. My bad. The only think I am going to apologise for is assuming that you have sense. Sorry for that assumption.

My argument all along is simple, but you are incapable of understanding it. It is this: European sources are not infallible. Your map has errors, and are therefore not reliable. I delineated the errors. But you won't read it because you have short attention span, like most half-literates.

Here is another 'accurate' map by your darling Europeans. In this one we see the Bonny River cutting across Igboland and reaching the Niger at Ossomari.

RedboneSmith:
I was looking for typo mistakes? Really? The things I listed look like typo mistakes to you? Mschw. I actually thought I was engaging someone that has an appreciable level of education. You're just an uncomprehending simpleton like most of the noisy people here.

Look at your maps. Look at the ones I posted. If you know any geography you will not pursue this future after studying them critically.

Out.

historyworld031:
"If the gloves don't fit, you must acquit"
By the way, you still haven't appologized for saying that in none of the maps was Benin written allover Lagos.
I have specifically isolate a map on which that is more than visible for your intention, but yet you have refused to aknowledge the fact and you have rather dodged the subject alltogether.
Would you admt your mistakes/lies in order to at least look objective ?

historyworld031:
Lagos = Van Ichoo Benin

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b/f1.item.r=Benin.zoom

RedboneSmith:


My words: "None of the maps explicitly shows Lagos as part of Benin."

^^^

See the above statement? It is still correct.

I went on to say that Lagos (Ichoo/Eko)is clearly shown as existing west of Benin, and nothing in the map suggests this Ichoo was part of Benin. That too is still correct.

RedboneSmith:



"Van Ichoo Benin" are three different entities on that map. They occupied different sections the same bar of land, but the map doesn't suggest Benin suzerainity over the other two entities. What, you can't even read a map? Jesus.


It's like seeing "Egba Ijebu Ondo" on the following map and assuming they are one place:

RedboneSmith:
*Yawn*

Bottom line: 17th century European maps are full of shit.

Bottom line: You can't take me up on the facts I threw at you. About the map makers not even knowing the course of the Niger, or the proper location of cities like Zamfara, Zaria et cetera. About the map makers being confused on whether Benin reached Cameroon or not, whether Biafra was a village in Cameroon or a Kingdom in Nigeria.

Bottom line: You want to stay sweating over Lagos [even after I have repeatedly said it is largely external to the larger point I am trying to make], and whether three distinct names on a map represent a united political entity or not *scoffs*. Something you appear too geographically-challenged (educationally-challenged, even) to understand.

Take care.

And keep hope alive. One day soon,you'll get to France. E go be.