senatordave1:

Chairman,this is nigeria that the president is ultra powerful and almighty and the inec boss is related to him.leave this your religious political calculation aside.buhari is ruthless like obj with equally ruthless aides.in 2011,he was not on seat.moreover if incumbent southern presidents can get up to a million vote in kaduna,why cant he as a sitting president not get up to 2 million votes votes there making sure his opponent get less than 400k? He knows the southern kaduna people will vote against him but as incumbent either they votd for him by force or he will make sure their votes are watered down or create confusion and chaos there while other zones are peaceful.the northwest is his area,he will win there heavily with at least 10 million or more votes.so you think all the votes gej got in ss and obj got in sw are real? A lot are fake and inflated.obj had 1.3 million out of 1.4 million in ogun in 2003,can you beat that? Na buhari go come mumu?

What do you mean when you say religious calculation? Southern kaduna people will not naturally vote in accordance with Zaria people. How does that relate to religion.

Yes of course, unless the election is rigged as usual. Only then will the margin be higher. But this time, the opposition will fight heavily against rigging.

Nowenuse:


Like I said, China and India are the most populous countries in the world and are dominantly monogamous.
Down in Nigeria, what about Benue state? Is Benue not more populated than Zamfara or many northern states? Or is Benue also an economic centre as you claim Rivers state is?

The whole of S. Kaduna is rural? How come in the 2006 census, Zangon kataf LGA with over 300k people was higher than every other LGA in Kaduna north except Zaria which was around 400k?

In Kaduna north, aside Zaria, 3 LGAs, Kubau, Sabongari & Soba LGA had above 200k people while in Kaduna south, 4LGAs Jemaa, Kaura, Kagarko & Kachia had above 200k people.
Lere LGA in Kaduna north had around 330k people and lets not forget that this area is not dominated by Hausa. All this, inspite of the fact that Hausa fulanis were counting their cows and rams. So, just forget it. Southern kaduna is not what you think....

Go and check the census. It is on wikipedia

Oga,i like your facts and evidences.there are good but your very biased.it seems you dont understand what is urban and rural.is there a settlement as urbanises like zaria in southern kaduna? No.kafanchan is the largest settlement in southern kaduna and it is not yet a city.that a place is heavily populous doesnt mean its urban.in northern kaduna apart from zaria,the other settlements are not urbanised and mostly peopled by indigenes.if kafanchan becomes a city,majority of the inhabitants will be foreigners.i asked you to mention any city in nigeria mostly peopled by indigenes,you didnt.
Another biased point is you saying that hausa/fulanus count their cows during census.it rubbishes all youd fine points.this may be true but even your southern kaduna also inflates population.there is no village in nigeria that doesnt inflate their population.even my village in cross river recorded a population of 3000 when were less than 1000.dont narrow it to the hausas alone,na normal thing.its just like saying only the hausas rig elections when every area in nigeria does it or claiming that only them are corrupt.but i can confidently tell you that the south inflates population and rigs election even mors than the north especially ss/se.

Nowenuse:


Southern Kaduna as a cultural area is different from Kaduna south senatorial district.
The former refers to all the tribes south of Zaria who are not hausa fulani. That is what SOKAPU (Southern kaduna people's union) stands for. Irrespective of your senatorial district, as long as you are in Kaduna state and located south of Zaria, you are from southern kaduna.


Lagos state always had Muslim governors until now irrespective of the fact that christians are majority in the state.
Go and check the history of Kaduna state. In old Kaduna state, Southern kaduna people were a voiceless minority. Katsina people produced the governor and leaders while Zaria produced the deputy. S. Kaduna took the crumbs.
When katsina had their own state, the new Kaduna state was structured to favour Zaria people politically. If not, can you explain how come Giwa LGA that shares boundary with Katsina state was dragged into Kaduna central while Kauru and Lere LGAs that are clearly located side by side with Chikun and Kajuru in the central axis, Kauru was dragged to the south while Lere was taken to the north. All of this to weaken the strength of Christians in Kaduna central and ensure that Zaria people always produce 2 senators.

Hausa fulanis are very smart in politics. You can see how influential they are in Nigerian politics and how they are dealing with their fellow yoruba & Igbo majority groups. How much more a dozen of scattered minority groups.

Here is the map of Kaduna state below, analyze it

You can see how both the pink, blue and yellow colours representing the 3 senatorial districts cut across Central Kaduna.

If you say that southern kaduna refers to all non hausa fulani tribes in kaduna,i agree.there are more numerous than the hausas.but the hausas are the largest ethnicity in kaduna,dont argue that please.but i still think that muslims are more.afterall if not why are muslims not dominating guber seats in plateau,taraba,benue where christians are more? Or why are christians not dominating in kwara,niger,gombe,oyo,adamawa where muslims are more? Leave lagos,i think both religions are of equal proportions there.let us focus on kaduna.the southern kaduna people can easily use their majority in southern zone,their 4 lgas in the central zone to dominate the governorship.again,most senators from the central zone are muslims which isnt a coincidence.the only time the christians produced a governor,it was by a slight margin in 2011 while muslims always win heavily.

Nowenuse:


What do you mean when you say religious calculation? Southern kaduna people will not naturally vote in accordance with Zaria people. How does that relate to religion.

Yes of course, unless the election is rigged as usual. Only then will the margin be higher. But this time, the opposition will fight heavily against rigging.

I said religious because you believe that since southern kaduna is mostly xtian dominated,it will vote against buhari forgetting that not only muslims vote buhari,even christians like me do.the opposition cannot do anything.did apc not oppose rigging in rivers,aka ibom and several other southern states which pdp won heavily? Whether southern kaduna vote for or against buhari,their votes will be recorded for buhari.lets leave that side,its the sad side of nigerian politics.if pdp wants power back,a good candidate should be presented not atiku.but ill prefer kowa or labour party not pdp.

senatordave1:

Oga,i like your facts and evidences.there are good but your very biased.it seems you dont understand what is urban and rural.is there a settlement as urbanises like zaria in southern kaduna? No.kafanchan is the largest settlement in southern kaduna and it is not yet a city.that a place is heavily populous doesnt mean its urban.in northern kaduna apart from zaria,the other settlements are not urbanised and mostly peopled by indigenes.if kafanchan becomes a city,majority of the inhabitants will be foreigners.i asked you to mention any city in nigeria mostly peopled by indigenes,you didnt.
Another biased point is you saying that hausa/fulanus count their cows during census.it rubbishes all youd fine points.this may be true but even your southern kaduna also inflates population.there is no village in nigeria that doesnt inflate their population.even my village in cross river recorded a population of 3000 when were less than 1000.dont narrow it to the hausas alone,na normal thing.its just like saying only the hausas rig elections when every area in nigeria does it or claiming that only them are corrupt.but i can confidently tell you that the south inflates population and rigs election even mors than the north especially ss/se.

You are only misunderstanding me that's why you think I am bias.

In Makurdi for instance, Tivs are the majority in the city and outnumber every other group of people combined. In Ado-Ekiti, Ekiti people actually outnumber every other group of outside settlers combined. In Katsina city, Katsina state indigenes most likely outnumber every other indigenes of other states combined. But in a city like Jos which is extremely cosmopolitan, I doubt that the number of Plateau indigenes will outnumber people from other states combined. This is my point. In the Nigerian context, Cities that have had no much history of commerce, education or mineral exploration are usually more or less homogenous. Cities like the examples I gave above like Makurdi, Ado-Ekiti and Katsina, were cities created solely for administrative reasons.
So, your point of cities not being dominated by the natives does not apply in all cases.

And pls, I understand very well what rural/urban connotes. The fact that the UK has one mighty city london which beats all German cities in terms of size, does not make UK more urbanized than Germany. Southern kaduna may have more smaller towns than northern kaduna. Besides, I am not arguing that Southern kaduna is more urbanized than Zaria. All I'm against is you tagging the whole of Southern Kaduna as rural areas. Southern kaduna has many towns, they are just smaller. For instance, a LGA like Jemaa or Zangon kataf might have at least 5-7 towns with at least 30k people each. because every tribe or subtribe usually has it's own chiefdom headquarters (which is usually a town).

As for inflation of census results. Some people are more notorious than others. Especially those who are desperate for domination and the desire to dominate others as seen with Hausa fulani. Southern kaduna people have no such desperation.

Another fact that will help us settle all this argument will be to provide the telcom statistics of Kaduna state, LGA by LGA. I think i have once come across sth like this.

senatordave1:

If you say that southern kaduna refers to all non hausa fulani tribes in kaduna,i agree.there are more numerous than the hausas.but the hausas are the largest ethnicity in kaduna,dont argue that please.but i still think that muslims are more.afterall if not why are muslims not dominating guber seats in plateau,taraba,benue where christians are more? Or why are christians not dominating in kwara,niger,gombe,oyo,adamawa where muslims are more? Leave lagos,i think both religions are of equal proportions there.let us focus on kaduna.the southern kaduna people can easily use their majority in southern zone,their 4 lgas in the central zone to dominate the governorship.again,most senators from the central zone are muslims which isnt a coincidence.the only time the christians produced a governor,it was by a slight margin in 2011 while muslims always win heavily.

If with all my explanation, you still did not understand why Zaria has a stronger political power over Southern kaduna, then i might just have to give up on this, cos it's obvious you are now arguing for arguin sake.

Someone asking why muslims do not dominate Benue state politically is like asking why christians do not dominate Sokoto state politically.
To start with, can you mention one single town or LGA in Benue where muslims are majority? Only Tivs produce governors in Benue state and they are 99% christians. Pls if you know any single Tiv village that has more muslims, let me know.

In Plateau state, the indigenous muslims are just very small. Out of the 50 tribes or more that make up the state, only about 2 indigenous tribes I know that are predominantly muslims and none of them are even among the top 5 largest tribes in the state. People think Plateau state has many muslims because of the Hausa settlers that make noise in Jos. Those ones are not indigenes of the state and can never be considered in some political posts.

Taraba is the only state where anyone can argue on why muslims are not dominating. Cos they have a large population here.
Muslims have occupied every other position in Taraba state except governorship. Currently, I think muslims have more senators than christians and could possibly have more house of reps than christians. So there is no real Christian political domination in Taraba.
The only reason why I think muslims fail to produce governor in Taraba, is the zonning issue based on senatorial district. I have explained this earlier to ItsTutsi (the person who made me join this thread). Let me requote the entire reply i gave him, when he asked the same question you are now asking about why muslims are not dominating Plateau, Benue & Taraba.

But pls next time, try to read all through a thread before joinning in any argument, to save us stress of repitition. Cos if you had read my reply to the other guy, you wouldn't have asked this!!

Nowenuse:


There are about 50 indigenous tribes in Plateau state. Can you pls mention at least 3 of these tribes with a muslim majority?

Only Tivs produce governors in Benue state and 99% of them are christians. Where do you want the muslim candidate to come from? The sky?

Taraba is the only state here with a significant muslim population. 2 out of the 3 senators of the state are muslims. Infact there was a particular time when the 3 senators from Taraba were all muslims. Even Taraba south where 85 or more % are christians, yet they produced a muslim senator. Same thing with Plateau, in Plateau central, Ibrahim Mantu (former deputy senate president) a muslim, was once the senator of the zone and this zone is nothing less than 80% christians.
Now tell me, is it possible for a christian to produce senator in an overwhelmingly muslim dominated zone in the north? Hell no! If it has happened, show me.

Governorsip in Taraba is rotated according to tribe and senatorial district and not by religion. The first governor was Mumuye (the largest tribe in Taraba north) and they are mostly christians. When power came to Taraba central where the fulanis have a larger population, they lost it to a Chamba person (which was no one's fault but theirs), now power has gone to Taraba south (Jukun land) and this zone has the lowest muslim population. So you can see that it is quite fair.

Now tell me why power is not rotated to Kaduna south or Gombe south?

For instance, a christian has not produced governor in Nasarawa or Kogi states (which have at least 50% christian each), but no one can ever accuse anyone because anybody that knows the internal politics of both states will know that tribe and tribalism is the most important factor for governorship selection in both states.

senatordave1:

Leave lagos,i think both religions are of equal proportions there.let us focus on kaduna.the southern kaduna people can easily use their majority in southern zone,their 4 lgas in the central zone to dominate the governorship.again,most senators from the central zone are muslims which isnt a coincidence.the only time the christians produced a governor,it was by a slight margin in 2011 while muslims always win heavily.

Now i just see that you are arguing for arguing sake. You just don't want to learn. You are not from this region and someone who is very familiar with the history and politics of the place is telling you the whole thing and you are not even paying attention to any details. There are only 3 southern kaduna dominated LGAs in central kaduna. The other one is in Kaduna north. I have stressed this point many times and this shows that you are not following.



First of all, Southern kaduna has never been united as one people not until few years ago. I even doubt any complete unity now (especially when it comes to local internal politics).

I think there was a time (in the late 90s or so), where there was a serious debate on whether Kaduna state should be divided and how it should be divided. Do you know that the Gbagyi representative came out to speak and rejected other southern kaduna people? He claimed that Hausas and Gbagyis have been neighbors and brothers for centuries and as such they (Gbagyis) will not join other Southern kaduna people to form a new state.
Do you know that in Chikun LGA, Gbagyis sometimes favour Hausas over their fellow southern kaduna people in political appointment? Infact let me not start washing dirty linens in public here. SOKAPU is doing a great work in uniting all southern kaduna people, let me not dig up ugly pasts here. Things are gradually getting better, but believe me, it was worse in the past.

Zaria always plays divide and rule with southern kaduna tribes just as the Hausas do with Southern Nigeria. Zaria can decide to pick a Gbagyi man for deputy governorship, then come and see the way thousands of Gbagyi people will abandon a Southern kaduna candidate and vote for a Hausa man, just to clinch deputy governorship cos they believe that a Gbagyi deputy governor will better serve their interests than a South kd governor.

This is exactly the same thing that happens in Gombe state and is the reason why a Southern Gombe man or Christian will never rule Gombe. Instead of the whole Gombe south to unite and present one candidate for governor, the Tangale & Waja people will rather fight themselves dirty over senatorship and deputy governorship.


Did you just say muslims and christians are equal in Lagos population? Pls, I was taking you to be a very enlightened person. I hope I don't change my mind on that.

senatordave1:

I said religious because you believe that since southern kaduna is mostly xtian dominated,it will vote against buhari forgetting that not only muslims vote buhari,even christians like me do.the opposition cannot do anything.did apc not oppose rigging in rivers,aka ibom and several other southern states which pdp won heavily? Whether southern kaduna vote for or against buhari,their votes will be recorded for buhari.lets leave that side,its the sad side of nigerian politics.if pdp wants power back,a good candidate should be presented not atiku.but ill prefer kowa or labour party not pdp.

Well you are wrong cos PDP will not present a christian candidate but most likely a Hausa fulani Muslim candidate?

Southern Kaduna people will not vote Buhari cos they know that he will never be the type to secure their interests, not about religion.

genghiskhan007:



So God can be at peace with someone who believes stealing is not corruption or someone who is desperate, a fugitive and loves to Bleep his fellowman abi?

you're just confused, it was That same guy that signed the anti gay bill, so why are you attacking him now.