₦airaland Forum

salvation101:
i somehow knew dat i was dealing with one of those who have doctorates and professorship in grace...u believe in eternal security don't you?

But ma, Grace message IS THE ONE AND ONLY MESSAGE DELIVERED AND HANDED DOWN TO THE CHURCH....any other message is false. Don't you know this?

PrecisionFx:
Christians prefer the new laws to the old laws n that is because of the fact that the new law teaches 100% forgiveness of sins....... They don't want anyone to tell them consequences of their sins

PrecisionFx, Are you entering the New Year with this madness in your head Sir?

Only an Atheist disguised as an agnostic or some other clever disguise, can come to such an insane conclusion. Atheists point to technology as evidence of the power of their NO-god. I remember a wise man, the highly esteemed Kingebukasblog say to the
world that, "The Internet is the death of Atheism." Experiential evidence supports his profound observation.

REJOICE ALL GOD LOVERS ! Christians should never defend their FAITH in the mighty Jesus Christ to the swine.

It is written, "DO NOT THROW YOUR PEARLS OF TRUTH TO THE SWINE, THEY WILL CRAP ON IT, THEN REND YOU.

ScienceWatch:
PrecisionFx, Are you entering the New Year with this madness in your head Sir?

Only an Atheist disguised as an agnostic or some other clever disguise, can come to such an insane conclusion. Atheists point to technology as evidence of the power of their NO-god. I remember a wise man, the highly esteemed Kingebukasblog say to the
world that, "The Internet is the death of Atheism." Experiential evidence supports his profound observation.

REJOICE ALL GOD LOVERS ! Christians should never defend their FAITH in the mighty Jesus Christ to the swine.

It is written, "DO NOT THROW YOUR PEARLS OF TRUTH TO THE SWINE, THEY WILL CRAP ON IT, THEN REND YOU.

""Atheist disguised as an agnostic""


I am not an Atheist.
I am not an Agnostic.


""Kingebukasblog say to the world that, "The Internet is the death of Atheism."

The internet is presently bringing an end to religion.


""Christians should never defend their FAITH in the mighty Jesus Christ to the swine""

Mr Swine stop calling on Atheists to defend their Faith.

Goshen360:
Madam, God will help us all. You have a long way to go and we're all learning. Doesn't the Grace teachers like me and your likes who mix Grace with law keeping both sin? Do you not know there's a difference between sinning (making a practice of sin verb) vs sin noun as a nature. Why do you folks who go against Grace people too still sin and ask for forgiveness of sin? Does that mean the holiness y'all preach and teach hasn't stop you guys from sinning? You gonna like me after our discussion here because I'll attack every you've learned in the traditional church.

I have one more sub topic to discuss under this law thread.....whenever you ready and whenever we done with this one..... Its gonna interest you! I've thinking of doing a thread on this sub topic because its related to this moral law thing, we can as well discuss it here! You ready?

i can categorically tell you that after i knew the lord and got saved i experienced total transformation of life, ppl around me could attest that something new has happened to me.. If a man be in Christ he is a new creature, old things are passed away and all things become new. Of course there are times i walk in d flesh, get angry and all but my conscience is alive, and i av to repent. D greatest enemy of a believer is the flesh wch comprises of soul and body. The salvation of the soul is by renewal of mind tru the word. For the body u av to tame it by purposefully mortifying the members of the body by not yielding it as instruments of unrighteousness. The word of God gives us clear commands and instructions on how to deal with our body like "abstaining from all appearances of evil", "flee youthful lust" etc.. Jesus is our perfect example and we keep looking unto him as the author and finisher of our faith

Goshen360:
But ma, Grace message IS THE ONE AND ONLY MESSAGE DELIVERED AND HANDED DOWN TO THE CHURCH....any other message is false. Don't you know this?

where did you get that from? Scriptural references plz.. Even Paul who spoke most about grace said he puts his body in subjection so dat after preaching to others he wont be a cast away... Where did u get ur concept of grace from? If u av grace, gracious fruits should emanate too

salvation101:
where did you get that from? Scriptural references plz.. Even Paul who spoke most about grace said he puts his body in subjection so dat after preaching to others he wont be a cast away... Where did u get ur concept of grace from? If u av grace, gracious fruits should emanate too

He's very correct. Unless you are not a Christian. Any other thing outside grace message is no longer Christianity.

Anything outside it is no longer preaching Christ. The doctrine of men has seriously adulterated Christianity.
Anybody preaching anything outside grace is trying to say the death of Jesus was for nothing.

salvation101:
Adam sinned and his eyes and dat of every human after him was opened to the knowledge of good and evil. Even though Adam sinned, God still judged fairly, every human has always had their chance to be justified even before the law. Abel was called righteous.... Enoch lived a holy life, Noah was righteous, Lot was counted among the righteous,Job was righteous.. Dey all met God standard for holiness in their respective generations..under d law, Elijah was called a Holy man of God.
Yeah, Jesus lived a sinless life, but don't forget he was also tempted but he never yielded.
God standard for Righteousness in this age is our Lord Jesus Christ.. There remains no more sacrifice for sin... He is the author and finisher of our faith. Only those who receive him gets the power to become sons of God.. One can't be a son of God and still find it difficult to live right..

.

the punishment for eating the fruit wasn't knowing good and evil that was just an effect, the punishment is "in what day you do it thou shall die" .... good now

you said Abel met God's standard for righteousness? what's his standard for righteousness? lolz I will answer you , GOD'S standard for righteousness is FAITH Abel was declared righteous by Faith read Hebrew 11...
HIS Faith was in bringing the best of his lamb to die in his place, his doing that was a sign of believe, just like we go to Jesus for justification ....

Cain on the other hand didn't believe God's verdict, he brought a gift too ,, he brought a gift of the ground which he has cursed. .. the lamb wasn't cursed, man was cursed the ground was cursed .....

what was Enoch's holy life. "he walked with God" how by faith.... also in Hebrews 11...

Noah was righteous.. how? he believed God would destroy the word and built an ark (in normal sense ark don't float) but his float .. the ark is a representation of Jesus.... it floating was a sign of baptism.... now that same Noah cursed his son, that same Noah was drunk ... Paul said sin was in the world.. how by Adams sin all were dead... they didn't just know good and evil.... the gospel of Christ dying in the place of the sinners has been preached from the fall...

and that same Jesus was crucified from the foundations of the world. .. the gospel is before the law...

how would Noah measure his righteousness since he had no written law ... it's when you obey the law that you can claim righteous ryt?
but how was Noah , Abraham, righteous

by faith in the substitution .... who is Christ who died in my place..... he did what neither I nor the law can do ....

have you forgotten how job felt bad when God's hand touched him, he never cursed God, yet he never loved God with ALL HIS HEART, IF HE DID, GE wouldn't COMPLAIN, did Christ complain...?
job obeyed God with all his heart as MAN can, not as the law required ..

look at David who claimed to love God with all his heart, when the ark killed Uzziah did David take the ark to his house?? isn't that a sin....

you seem to believe that the fall of Adam rendered us dead to God,

now the gentiles had the law in their heart, do they have the gospel how will they be saved....


all best Christians in the Bible had their weaknesses .... Bible allowed us know they weren't law experts ...

when Elijah killed the prophets of Baal, why did he run from Jezebel?? he ran because he was afraid. .. isn't that weakness. didn't Peter the great apostle did what was wrong in Galatians

didn't that graced Paul say he was a Pharisee to cause confusion in acts... isn't that weakness......

God allows human weakness so that they will know that he saved them ....

tell me , was Isaac holier than Ismael... didn't that Isaac love whom God gas rejected concerning covenant ... God hated Esau. .. yet Isaac loved him, he even wanted to give him the blessing if not for God..... didn't Jacob sin a greater sin ... he lied to receive a blessing,

God appeared to Jacob when he was sleeping and made a covenant with him,,,,,, Abraham never asked for God, when God appeared first to him. he was an idolater....

you seem not to know that it isn't by power but by God who shows mercy...

PrecisionFx:
""Atheist disguised as an agnostic""

Mr Swine stop calling on Atheists to defend their Faith.

It seems like you are calling them.

Oracle16:
He's very correct. Unless you are not a Christian. Any other thing outside grace message is no longer Christianity.

Anything outside it is no longer preaching Christ. The doctrine of men has seriously adulterated Christianity.
Anybody preaching anything outside grace is trying to say the death of Jesus was for nothing.

since you were responding to the question i ask him u could av sited scriptural reference to support. Wat u just stated here is an opinion of man and not sound doctrine except backed by scripture.

salvation101:
since you were responding to the question i ask him u could av sited scriptural reference to support. Wat u just stated here is an opinion of man and not sound doctrine except backed by scripture.

That God sent His only begotten son to die for us to be saved, is that not grace. We are Christians because of what Christ did and because He gave what we didn't deserve to us for the sake of love. What do you think it is? Grace is receiving those blessings we didn't deserve. We are saved as Christians because of the sacrifice made for us on the cross by Jesus and because we didn't hire Him to come and die for us, it was done out of love, that's grace.


Our free gift of salvation is grace. Grace is why we are Christians. Christianity is grace. I might not be too good in explaining, but just trying. Goshen360 will explain better.

Let post of these scriptures if they can help.

John 1:17

For the law was given through Moses, but God's unfailing love and faithfulness came through Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:6

Let us praise God for his glorious grace, for the free gift he gave us in his dear Son!

Romans 3:24

But by the free gift of God’s grace all are put right with him through Christ Jesus, who sets them free

Ephesians 2:8-9

For it is by God’s grace that you have been saved through faith. It is not the result of your own efforts, but God’s gift, so that no one can boast about it.

Acts 15:11

We believe and are saved by the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they are.

John 1:14

And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.


2 Timothy 1:8-10
Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord or of me His prisoner, but join with me in suffering for the gospel according to the power of God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity, but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,


John 3:16-17
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.


Romans 5:8

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Titus 2:11-14
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus


1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Actually u made of sense, but Was i d one who said Adam sin cut mankind off from God? I pointed out how his direct protege was a righteous man.
Yep faith is the criteria to be justified with God, most "preachers of grace" do not even understand the difference between faith and belief. Hebrew 11 talks about faith and always mentioned an action dat followed. By faith Abel..., by faith Abraham..., by faith moses... Etc. The book of James clearly spelt out the relationship between faith and works for faith without work is death. The Bible didn't tell us the fruit Adam and eve ate but it tells us the name of the tree, it was the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Dat is wat opened man's eyes to the law, before the law man knew not sin but wen d law came sin revived and man died... God specifically warned dem dat the moment dey sinned by eating dat fruit, dey will die.. Seeing dey didn't die in d flesh makes us know dey died in the spirit. The knowledge of good and evil is in everyman. The conscience is the law to man, man has been living according to conscience even before mosaic law.
U r talking about weakness but the Bible warned us to specifically throw away those sins dat easily beset us or wat u call weakness. As long as we are in d flesh the devil will never stop fighting us even tru our flesh but we must deliberately cast off the works of darkness and put on tye armor of light. God's standard is holiness and it never changes. Heb 12:14 says without holiness no man shall see God. Our God is light and in him is no darkness at all. Jesus Christ is still our standard dats why the Bible say we should look unto him as the author and finisher of our faith. Funny thing with many grace preacher is dey even try to discredit many things Jesus Christ taught his discipiles nd pick few verses from pauls letter and become dogmatic with it

Ferisidowu:
.

the punishment for eating the fruit wasn't knowing good and evil that was just an effect, the punishment is "in what day you do it thou shall die" .... good now

you said Abel met God's standard for righteousness? what's his standard for righteousness? lolz I will answer you , GOD'S standard for righteousness is FAITH Abel was declared righteous by Faith read Hebrew 11...
HIS Faith was in bringing the best of his lamb to die in his place, his doing that was a sign of believe, just like we go to Jesus for justification ....

Cain on the other hand didn't believe God's verdict, he brought a gift too ,, he brought a gift of the ground which he has cursed. .. the lamb wasn't cursed, man was cursed the ground was cursed .....

what was Enoch's holy life. "he walked with God" how by faith.... also in Hebrews 11...

Noah was righteous.. how? he believed God would destroy the word and built an ark (in normal sense ark don't float) but his float .. the ark is a representation of Jesus.... it floating was a sign of baptism.... now that same Noah cursed his son, that same Noah was drunk ... Paul said sin was in the world.. how by Adams sin all were dead... they didn't just know good and evil.... the gospel of Christ dying in the place of the sinners has been preached from the fall...

and that same Jesus was crucified from the foundations of the world. .. the gospel is before the law...

how would Noah measure his righteousness since he had no written law ... it's when you obey the law that you can claim righteous ryt?
but how was Noah , Abraham, righteous

by faith in the substitution .... who is Christ who died in my place..... he did what neither I nor the law can do ....

have you forgotten how job felt bad when God's hand touched him, he never cursed God, yet he never loved God with ALL HIS HEART, IF HE DID, GE wouldn't COMPLAIN, did Christ complain...?
job obeyed God with all his heart as MAN can, not as the law required ..

look at David who claimed to love God with all his heart, when the ark killed Uzziah did David take the ark to his house?? isn't that a sin....

you seem to believe that the fall of Adam rendered us dead to God,

now the gentiles had the law in their heart, do they have the gospel how will they be saved....


all best Christians in the Bible had their weaknesses .... Bible allowed us know they weren't law experts ...

when Elijah killed the prophets of Baal, why did he run from Jezebel?? he ran because he was afraid. .. isn't that weakness. didn't Peter the great apostle did what was wrong in Galatians

didn't that graced Paul say he was a Pharisee to cause confusion in acts... isn't that weakness......

God allows human weakness so that they will know that he saved them ....

tell me , was Isaac holier than Ismael... didn't that Isaac love whom God gas rejected concerning covenant ... God hated Esau. .. yet Isaac loved him, he even wanted to give him the blessing if not for God..... didn't Jacob sin a greater sin ... he lied to receive a blessing,

God appeared to Jacob when he was sleeping and made a covenant with him,,,,,, Abraham never asked for God, when God appeared first to him. he was an idolater....

you seem not to know that it isn't by power but by God who shows mercy...

U made a statement in support of wat goshen said and i asked you to provide biblical support.
In case u don't remember he said all the messages that grace is the one and only message Jesus gave to the church and non of ur Bible references support dat, u only provided Bible references where grace was mentioned.. Now let me clarify it for you, Jesus Christ is Grace personified but he said to his disciples, take up ur cross and follow me( matt 16:24), he said dey should bring their yokes to him and bear his for his yoke is easy and his burden light. He told them to watch and pray because dey don't know d hour of his coming, he mentioned the word hell many times than he mentioned heaven, warning dem.. But all these grace preachers look past the gospels and only read some few books in galatians and Roman to justify their belief in eternal security. A whole paul the apostle cursed the high priest of israel wen he was slapped but wen he got to know he was insulting the high priest he immediately asked for forgiveness cos he knew he went against the word of God Acts 23:3-5
Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, thou whited wall: for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to the law? And they that stood by said, Revilest thou God's high priest? Then said Paul, I wist not, brethren, that he was the high priest: for it is written, Thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of thy people.
Acts 23:3‭-‬5
guess where Paul quoted from, paul accepted his wrong doing according to the mosaic law in Exodus22:28 but guess wat, dis grace preachers understand grace even more than apostle paul

Oracle16:
That God sent His only begotten son to die for us to be saved, is that not grace. We are Christians because of what Christ did and because He gave what we didn't deserve to us for the sake of love. What do you think it is? Grace is receiving those blessings we didn't deserve. We are saved as Christians because of the sacrifice made for us on the cross by Jesus and because we didn't hire Him to come and die for us, it was done out of love, that's grace.


Our free gift of salvation is grace. Grace is why we are Christians. Christianity is grace. I might not be too good in explaining, but just trying. Goshen360 will explain better.

Let post of these scriptures if they can help.

John 1:17

For the law was given through Moses, but God's unfailing love and faithfulness came through Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:6

Let us praise God for his glorious grace, for the free gift he gave us in his dear Son!

Romans 3:24

But by the free gift of God’s grace all are put right with him through Christ Jesus, who sets them free

Ephesians 2:8-9

For it is by God’s grace that you have been saved through faith. It is not the result of your own efforts, but God’s gift, so that no one can boast about it.

Acts 15:11

We believe and are saved by the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they are.

John 1:14

And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.


2 Timothy 1:8-10
Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord or of me His prisoner, but join with me in suffering for the gospel according to the power of God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity, but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,


John 3:16-17
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.


Romans 5:8

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Titus 2:11-14
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus


1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

MrPresident1:
Just wait for the day all works will be tried with fire.

Nonsense purveyor of lawlessness

. we don't understand sir pls speak plainly... you think this is lawlessness?

salvation101:
Actually u made of sense, but Was i d one who said Adam sin cut mankind off from God? I pointed out how his direct protege was a righteous man.
Yep faith is the criteria to be justified with God, most "preachers of grace" do not even understand the difference between faith and belief. Hebrew 11 talks about faith and always mentioned an action dat followed. By faith Abel..., by faith Abraham..., by faith moses... Etc. The book of James clearly spelt out the relationship between faith and works for faith without work is death. The Bible didn't tell us the fruit Adam and eve ate but it tells us the name of the tree, it was the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Dat is wat opened man's eyes to the law, before the law man knew not sin but wen d law came sin revived and man died... God specifically warned dem dat the moment dey sinned by eating dat fruit, dey will die.. Seeing dey didn't die in d flesh makes us know dey died in the spirit. The knowledge of good and evil is in everyman. The conscience is the law to man, man has been living according to conscience even before mosaic law.
U r talking about weakness but the Bible warned us to specifically throw away those sins dat easily beset us or wat u call weakness. As long as we are in d flesh the devil will never stop fighting us even tru our flesh but we must deliberately cast off the works of darkness and put on tye armor of light. God's standard is holiness and it never changes. Heb 12:14 says without holiness no man shall see God. Our God is light and in him is no darkness at all. Jesus Christ is still our standard dats why the Bible say we should look unto him as the author and finisher of our faith. Funny thing with many grace preacher is dey even try to discredit many things Jesus Christ taught his discipiles nd pick few verses from pauls letter and become dogmatic with it

....
it's well, what then is Holiness, the 10 commandments!?? no

Holiness is living the whole of your life to Christ ..... that's Holiness ....

"I beseech you brethren by the mercies of God that your keep your body ......"

are we saying that adherent of Grace are worst beings , that they are licentious?? no

they are the best of their kind ,,,,.

yet they are dead to the law...

Ferisidowu:
. we don't understand sir pls speak plainly... you think this is lawlessness?

My Bro, the grace that Goshen360 is preaching is a very wrong doctrine.

When a man gives his life to Jesus, what it means is that he has made a resolve to live his life according to the ways of God. Nothing happens to a man at this stage, it is when he begins to read the Bible, understanding more and more the mind of God and applying the things that he has learned into his life that he becomes more and more Christlike.

Jesus is the Word of God, the Word of God is not yet written in our heart at present, so we have to depend on the Bible to know what is right and wrong, and how to live our lives to please God. It is when Jesus comes that we will be like him, but Goshen360 and his likes continue to purvey the erroneous doctrine that as soon as you are born again, you have the spirit of God, you become infallible and unable to sin, this is absolutely wrong. As long as Jesus has not come back and we are still in the mortal fleshly body, we will continue to be subject to its whims, until Jesus comes to redeem us, and then we transit from the corruptibility to incorruptibility.

Until Jesus comes, the Bible which the LAW OF GOD, which is the SPIRIT OF GOD, will continue to be our guide, DIRECTING us on how to overcome the flesh, and its desires which run against the Spirit of God.

No one receives the Spirit of God at conversion, but through a step by step process of imbibing the Spirit of God through the reading the Bible, we get to become more and more Christlike which is the very essence of being a Christian, until Jesus Himself, the Daystar of God arises in our hearts at His Apocalypse.

Jesus is Grace personified, He is the Grace that is preached, He is the Word of God, He is the Bible, and HE IS THE LAW OF GOD.

Ferisidowu:
....
it's well, what then is Holiness, the 10 commandments!?? no

Holiness is living the whole of your life to Christ ..... that's Holiness ....

"I beseech you brethren by the mercies of God that your keep your body ......"

are we saying that adherent of Grace are worst beings , that they are licentious?? no

they are the best of their kind ,,,,.

yet they are dead to the law...

Holiness is not obeying the 10 commandment but having a conscience void of offense towards God and man.. Every new testament saint must believe in grace cos Jesus is grace personified and every promise in the new testament such as salvation, healing, deliverance etc, we get tru grace. Jesus was full of grace and truth and it is evident in the life he lived,he was perfect. But wat we av today is many so called grace preachers who are still wallowing in a sinful addiction and instead of dealing with it dey say grace covers it. Nope, Jesus didn't come to help us manage our sinful state but to take us out of it.. Even when u have grace u still av to make deliberate attempt to mortify the flesh.. See Paul's letter to the colossian Christians ooo

Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Colossians 3:5‭-‬10

Another word for mortify is to kill.. Paul admonished dem to consciously and deliberately kill those natural tendencies, he also asked dem to "put off" some other things and commandeth dem to stop lying to each other.. He was talking to colossian saints for God's sake. They had grace already but d grace hadn't taken those stuff away from their lives. The most spiritual church at dat time waz d church at Corinth, but guess wat? Dat was where many ppl fell sick and died the most cos dey were living in sin and partaking in the Lord's table. Those they were spirit baptized, had gifts of the spirit, dey were still committing fornication..

[b]And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
1 Corinthians 11:24‭-‬32[/b]

U can check other version to know wat Paul meant by many sleep. Many died. Even though there was grace, God still judged sin in the Corinthian church.

How can someone claim to have grace and still continue in sin, dat is an abuse to the word grace.. Titus 2:11 says the grace of God teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age.. I am not against the gospel of grace but against wat some folks calls grace today

Salvation 101; Holiness is not obeying the 10 commandment but having a conscience void of offense towards God and man.. Every new testament saint must believe in grace cos Jesus is grace personified and every promise in the new testament such as salvation, healing, deliverance etc, we get tru grace. Jesus was full of grace and truth and it is evident in the life he lived,he was perfect. But wat we av today is many so called grace preachers who are still wallowing in a sinful addiction and instead of dealing with it dey say grace covers it. Nope, Jesus didn't come to help us manage our sinful state but to take us out of it

that's true but one thing I know is that true believer overcomes the world I agree with you on this, those stuck in sinful addiction doesn't understand the things done by Christ ..... Paul said sin shall not have Dominion over you, but then it's obvious that those stuck in sinful addictions that sin has Dominion over them as at that time,.... and I also know that we receive Grace for Grace to help in time of Need. All these things are proves that Faith is not mental assent, it's living in reality.....

It's true that saved people sometimes sin and are chastised, e g David in numbering Israel, the chastisement are proves in themselves that God didn't save them to live to their sinful desires, but if he did that, the unsaved will have cause to blaspheme, .... Now to be sincere with you.. he can save even the vilest sinner , since all are justified by Christ righteousness and not their for which he chastised them. who is sinfully addicted, but then it's not his will, his will is our sanctification, it's obvious that no real person who understands salvation makes an habit of sinning.

Even when u have grace u still av to make deliberate attempt to mortify the flesh.. See Paul's letter to the colossian Christians ooo

I understand your zeal, but then Bible says it's God who works in you to do and even to will his good pleasure ...
I won't take credit to mortifying the flesh, one thing I know is that God will make his elects without reproach

Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Colossians 3:5‭-‬10

Now the way I see this verse is that these things are things accomplished in the elect by God's work in them even job wasn't a transgressor of these things but yet they aren't justified for that, they are justified IN Christ. These things are proves that salvation must be God given or nothing ...

Another word for mortify is to kill.. Paul admonished dem to consciously and deliberately kill those natural tendencies, he also asked dem to "put off" some other things and commandeth dem to stop lying to each other.. He was talking to colossian saints for God's sake.

Lol calm down bro it's well in Jesus name... The thing is that the external church is filled with goats and sheep. The way you put it, it's as if they are meant to be monks, no that's not what he is saying ..
My belief concerning these is that he's telling them God's will concerning them, things they should look to God for... Though it doesn't justified them.
..

They had grace already but d grace hadn't taken those stuff away from their lives

You seem not to know that there different levels of Grace
, Some are rich, that's a Grace, some are healthy while some are sick that's also a Grace....... Saving Grace isn't powerless if it's then God isn't Almighty..... If God can't save his elect, then he must be powerless.. not all humans or church members are elect anyways but then he said, whoever comes to me I will never cast out, it's the elect that goes to him for the salvation of their soul..

. The most spiritual church at dat time waz d church at Corinth, but guess wat? Dat was where many ppl fell sick and died the most cos dey were living in sin and partaking in the Lord's table. Those they were spirit baptized, had gifts of the spirit, dey were still committing fornication..

[b]And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
1 Corinthians 11:24‭-‬32[/b]


U can check other version to know wat Paul meant by many sleep. Many died. Even though there was grace, God still judged sin in the Corinthian church.

I think theologians would say that the Ephesian church was the best, it was growing in Grace.... Now it wasn't all of them that were sickly or had slept ... Some were still standing by grace,
But then verse 31 proves that if they had judged themselves they wouldn't have been judged
Verse 32 then seals it up, that even if we are justed, we are chastened, of the Lord, that we shouldn't be condemned with the world..

Christ is judge and owner of his church , he will do best with those he had called...

How can someone claim to have grace and still continue in sin, dat is an abuse to the word grace.. Titus 2:11 says the grace of God teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age.. I am not against the gospel of grace but against wat some folks calls grace today

. Of course it's just a claim,
Someone can't have Grace and continue in sin....

salvation101:
Holiness is not obeying the 10 commandment but having a conscience void of offense towards God and man.. Every new testament saint must believe in grace cos Jesus is grace personified and every promise in the new testament such as salvation, healing, deliverance etc, we get tru grace. Jesus was full of grace and truth and it is evident in the life he lived,he was perfect. But wat we av today is many so called grace preachers who are still wallowing in a sinful addiction and instead of dealing with it dey say grace covers it. Nope, Jesus didn't come to help us manage our sinful state but to take us out of it.. Even when u have grace u still av to make deliberate attempt to mortify the flesh.. See Paul's letter to the colossian Christians ooo

Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Colossians 3:5‭-‬10

Another word for mortify is to kill.. Paul admonished dem to consciously and deliberately kill those natural tendencies, he also asked dem to "put off" some other things and commandeth dem to stop lying to each other.. He was talking to colossian saints for God's sake. They had grace already but d grace hadn't taken those stuff away from their lives. The most spiritual church at dat time waz d church at Corinth, but guess wat? Dat was where many ppl fell sick and died the most cos dey were living in sin and partaking in the Lord's table. Those they were spirit baptized, had gifts of the spirit, dey were still committing fornication..

[b]And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
1 Corinthians 11:24‭-‬32[/b]

U can check other version to know wat Paul meant by many sleep. Many died. Even though there was grace, God still judged sin in the Corinthian church.

How can someone claim to have grace and still continue in sin, dat is an abuse to the word grace.. Titus 2:11 says the grace of God teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age.. I am not against the gospel of grace but against wat some folks calls grace today

I agree with this. Grace is not a licence to sin. Grace helps us to overcome sin, with constant feeding on the word of God. I don't think Goshen disagrees with this.

I disagree with what someone mentioned that one does not receive the Holy Spirit even when you have been born again and baptized, until he continues studying the word. You receive the Holy Spirit when you repent and accept Christ and have been baptized, but you grow in faith when you study the word constantly.

salvation101 also concerning the chastening, on comparing scriptures with scriptures, it's in Hebrews 12 that God chastens those he loves, then it's obvious that even his chastening was a chastening of love, no wonder he used the word sleep, which is used just for saints, hardly used for unbelievers,. then I'm very sure that since he says that they are chastened of the Lord, it's obvious, they weren't reprobates, the were accepted by God, so chastened by him, so as not to be condemned with the world.....

Oracle16:
I agree with this. Grace is not a licence to sin. Grace helps us to overcome sin, with constant feeding on the word of God. I don't think Goshen disagrees with this.

I disagree with what someone mentioned that one does not receive the Holy Spirit even when you have been born again and baptized, until he continues studying the word. You receive the Holy Spirit when you repent and accept Christ and have been baptized, but you grow in faith when you study the word constantly.

we actually receive the Spirit of God at salvation.. The spirit of God is the Spirit of adoption dat gives us the right to call God father, Bible says as many as received him, to dem he gave the power to become the sons of God even to them that believes on his name. Adam was a living soul but Christ Jesus is a quickening Spirit. We were dead in sin but he makes us alive unto righteousness. But at salvation, we still av our flesh and soul to contend with for it is only our Spirit wch jas been made alive. Sanctification is for the soul, we are sanctified by the word of God we learn God and unlearn the world and it ways. The word of God said we are sanctified by the washing of the water in the word Ephesians 5:26, the word of God cleanses our soul daily and our carnal mind is renewed and we become more spiritual since the Spirit and the soul is now in agreement with the Spirit. To be carnally minded is death

Ferisidowu:
that's true but one thing I know is that true believer overcomes the world I agree with you on this, those stuck in sinful addiction doesn't understand the things done by Christ ..... Paul said sin shall not have Dominion over you, but then it's obvious that those stuck in sinful addictions that sin has Dominion over them as at that time,.... and I also know that we receive Grace for Grace to help in time of Need. All these things are proves that Faith is not mental assent, it's living in reality.....

It's true that saved people sometimes sin and are chastised, e g David in numbering Israel, the chastisement are proves in themselves that God didn't save them to live to their sinful desires, but if he did that, the unsaved will have cause to blaspheme, .... Now to be sincere with you.. he can save even the vilest sinner , since all are justified by Christ righteousness and not their for which he chastised them. who is sinfully addicted, but then it's not his will, his will is our sanctification, it's obvious that no real person who understands salvation makes an habit of sinning.



I understand your zeal, but then Bible says it's God who works in you to do and even to will his good pleasure ...
I won't take credit to mortifying the flesh, one thing I know is that God will make his elects without reproach




Now the way I see this verse is that these things are things accomplished in the elect by God's work in them even job wasn't a transgressor of these things but yet they aren't justified for that, they are justified IN Christ. These things are proves that salvation must be God given or nothing ...



Lol calm down bro it's well in Jesus name... The thing is that the external church is filled with goats and sheep. The way you put it, it's as if they are meant to be monks, no that's not what he is saying ..
My belief concerning these is that he's telling them God's will concerning them, things they should look to God for... Though it doesn't justified them.
..


You seem not to know that there different levels of Grace
, Some are rich, that's a Grace, some are healthy while some are sick that's also a Grace....... Saving Grace isn't powerless if it's then God isn't Almighty..... If God can't save his elect, then he must be powerless.. not all humans or church members are elect anyways but then he said, whoever comes to me I will never cast out, it's the elect that goes to him for the salvation of their soul..



I think theologians would say that the Ephesian church was the best, it was growing in Grace.... Now it wasn't all of them that were sickly or had slept ... Some were still standing by grace,
But then verse 31 proves that if they had judged themselves they wouldn't have been judged
Verse 32 then seals it up, that even if we are justed, we are chastened, of the Lord, that we shouldn't be condemned with the world..

Christ is judge and owner of his church , he will do best with those he had called...


. Of course it's just a claim,
Someone can't have Grace and continue in sin....

he works in us to be willing and to do his pleasure. It doesn't take away the will of man bro. God's grace is sufficient but our willingness to utilize or accept the grace of God also limits its impact in our life.. Salvation, healing, deliverance, prosperity are all available in grace but there are some believers who still stumble at these. The puritans of old were good believers but dey didn't believe prosperity was for dem, dey believed dey had to live poor and lowly life. There are some believers today who do not believe healing is for them, their belief itself is a stumbling block.. But all these are available in grace.
U av to mortify consciously, Paul didn't say God will come and mortify it for dem.
1cor9:27, Paul says he puts his body in check so he doesn't become a castaway.

Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
1 Corinthians 9:24‭-‬27 KJV

salvation101:
we actually receive the Spirit of God at salvation.. The spirit of God is the Spirit of adoption dat gives us the right to call God father, Bible says as many as received him, to dem he gave the power to become the sons of God even to them that believes on his name. Adam was a living soul but Christ Jesus is a quickening Spirit. We were dead in sin but he makes us alive unto righteousness. But at salvation, we still av our flesh and soul to contend with for it is only our Spirit wch jas been made alive. Sanctification is for the soul, we are sanctified by the word of God we learn God and unlearn the world and it ways. The word of God said we are sanctified by the washing of the water in the word Ephesians 5:26, the word of God cleanses our soul daily and our carnal mind is renewed and we become more spiritual since the Spirit and the soul is now in agreement with the Spirit. To be carnally minded is death

Very true! But your initial posts contradicts these last two posts. I thought you didn't agree with what you just posted. God bless you more.

Ferisidowu:
salvation101 also concerning the chastening, on comparing scriptures with scriptures, it's in Hebrews 12 that God chastens those he loves, then it's obvious that even his chastening was a chastening of love, no wonder he used the word sleep, which is used just for saints, hardly used for unbelievers,. then I'm very sure that since he says that they are chastened of the Lord, it's obvious, they weren't reprobates, the were accepted by God, so chastened by him, so as not to be condemned with the world.....

well they were punished for living in sin and partaking in d Lord's table unworthyli

Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
1 Corinthians 11:27‭, ‬29‭-‬30

How can u infer dat someone who is guilty of the Lord's body and blood would be with the Lord?
How can u infer dat someone who brought damnation unto himself is now with d Lord?

Check other versions of the scripture, that word was translated as (many have died).
The same Greek word (koimao) translated as sleep here was translated as dead in 1cor7:29 in same KJV.

Oracle16:
Very true! But your initial posts contradicts these last two posts. I thought you didn't agree with what you just posted. God bless you more.

wat initial post? Perhaps there was only a misunderstanding

PrecisionFx:
""Kingebukasblog say to the world that, "The Internet is the death of Atheism."

The internet is presently bringing an end to religion.


""Christians should never defend their FAITH in the mighty Jesus Christ to the swine""

At least you right about that !!! Bravo !!

I believe there is a misunderstanding between salvation and regeneration.
First salvation is instant.
Immediately a man receives the saviour he is made righteous and justified before God.
Holiness is the new nature in him by virtue of his new birth.
Regeneration is the transformation that comes through the washing of the word this is made possible as we come to know him more and more.
God is the potter we are the clay. He works in us both to will and to do I.e he molds us.
Working out salvation means to focus on him, reflecting his characters through us as he works in us.

The only law a christian abides by is the law of liberty which is love.


Come to think of it, all that the law was talking about is love.
If you love your neighbour , you wouldn't steal from him, wouldn't lie against him, you wouldn't insult, make jest of or hate him, you wouldn't take his wife or husband etc

If you love God, you wouldn't worship other God, make images and bow to it, you wouldnt have anything to do with his enemy either through witchcraft or occult practices etc you wouldn't fornicate because you are his temple neither will you destroy your body through hard drugs,excess alcohol or making marks on your body, you wouldn't love the worldliness because it is against him etc I can go on and on.

U c what people who follow law take as extra ordinary people of grace take as normal.
So whose righteousness exceed in you very eyes? U see Jesus said we are no longer servants because a servant does not know what his master does but he just obey out of fear but a Son knows what his father does.
We know that God's law is based on love not some rudiment that is meant to be obey out of fear.

It is possible to loss salvation but a man who is bornagain and preserved by God cannot loss his salvation which means there is eternal security for a saved man.

When God promised you salvation he meant it.
Christ finished it on the cross. If you are still afraid of lossing salvation then you have not yet trusted in him.
You can't trust someone and still doubt him at the same time.. Ha...
It puts a big question on your faith. Who are you trusting yourself or Christ?
If you trust yourself then you have every reason to doubt. Becareful to obey all the commandments because if you break one you have broke all. All your effort will be zero.
But if you put your trust in Christ just rejoice you will never be let down. He died for it, that's to tell you how serious he is.

I have been reading comments and I'll attend to all of them later on.

salvation101:
i can categorically tell you that after i knew the lord and got saved i experienced total transformation of life, ppl around me could attest that something new has happened to me.. If a man be in Christ he is a new creature, old things are passed away and all things become new. Of course there are times i walk in d flesh, get angry and all but my conscience is alive, and i av to repent. D greatest enemy of a believer is the flesh wch comprises of soul and body. The salvation of the soul is by renewal of mind tru the word. For the body u av to tame it by purposefully mortifying the members of the body by not yielding it as instruments of unrighteousness. The word of God gives us clear commands and instructions on how to deal with our body like "abstaining from all appearances of evil", "flee youthful lust" etc.. Jesus is our perfect example and we keep looking unto him as the author and finisher of our faith

You, me or any other Christian should not have problem to agree on what you wrote above here. I'm 101% in agreement with the above. My born again experience was same and still same that is, fruits must be evidence in the life of the new creation.

However as you pointed out, flesh has to be put in subjection. The reason being that, your new creation affect or is only experience in your spirit and that's once and for all times. Your body is the residue of the old man or the old nature of sin that was dead. Your mind has to be renewed to align or follow the new creature to take side with the new man which is made after Christ.

We agree on this and no problem ma. We'll continue!

Ferisidowu:
some Christians argue that the moral law remains that Jesus abrogated the civil and ceremonial law but never removed the moral law . .
how true is this?

I heard someone preaching about the Sabbath the other day. His question was, if Sabbath is not to be obeyed, how about the others?

What do you think about christians doing these things (as per the ten commandments). Would you consider them Christian? Does it matter. You shall know them by their fruits.


1 . have other gods besides God the creator .

2. make idols

3. Use the name of the Lord God in vain.

Observe the Sabbath day and keep it holy.

4. Dishonor their father and mother.

5. Commit murder.

6. commit adultery.

7. steal.

8. bear false witness.

9. covet.


And that's why the Sabbath shall henceforth become holy for me. I don't see why 9 are relevant but just that one.

The Moral Law was never against anybody.
James 2:10-12 tells us that it's the LAW OF LIBERTY and all men shall be judged by it. He that offends in one point of the law is guilty of all.
The law that was against us was the ceremonial law and it's been nailed to the cross.
Rev. 14:12 says "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD AND THE FAITH OF JESUS."
This verse is telling us that the end time saints are keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. That is, it's a waste of time to claim to keep God's Law without believing in Jesus. Likewise, you can't claim to believe in Jesus without perfect obedience to the law of God.

Goshen360:
I have been reading comments and I'll attend to all of them later on.

Weldon sir

otr1:
The Moral Law was never against anybody.
James 2:10-12 tells us that it's the LAW OF LIBERTY and all men shall be judged by it. He that offends in one point of the law is guilty of all.
The law that was against us was the ceremonial law and it's been nailed to the cross.
Rev. 14:12 says "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD AND THE FAITH OF JESUS."
This verse is telling us that the end time saints are keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. That is, it's a waste of time to claim to keep God's Law without believing in Jesus. Likewise, you can't claim to believe in Jesus without perfect obedience to the law of God.

really?

I still don't understand you.....