Hello Nairalanders,

I am a manager of a big Hotel that just opened new in a high brow area. So, I decided to place copies of the bible and Koran for my guests to enhance their comfort and easy access to their religious affairs whenever they want to.
however, some days back, I had some Muslim guests take up lodgings in my hotel, hence some two days after they checked out, I got a surprise invasion of about 50 Muslim youths chanting some Hausa words that I didn't understand, when I was called out, I sought to find out the reason for their chants, they said I was desecrating the Holy Quaran and their religion by placing the Korans in my hotel rooms where all kinds of abominable things happen. that they would not tolerate that, either I retrieve the korans and hand it over to them or they will set fire to my hotel.
I called my director, who called in the police, after a protracted deliberations, I was told to retrieve the Korans but i didn't hand them over to the youths. at which point the policemen dispersed the protesting youths, after convincing them that I have removed the korans from all the rooms, leaving only the bibles.
I am now wondering, what is so different between the Koran and the Bible that it is not desecrated, instead it tends to prick peoples conscience when they want to commit any evil acts and see the bible, they have a change of heart.
why did they have to threaten to commit arson just because of a harmless and profitable decision that I took.
I need to understand this, guys, I want to read from you, did I do anything wrong by my actions?
should I also remove the bibles as I have done to the Koran?
clerics and religious experts, let me know your opinion on this.
thanks


please send to frontpage, let other people send in their opinions

martinlooter:
Hello Nairalanders,

I am a manager of a big Hotel that just opened new in a high brow area. So, I decided to place copies of the bible and Koran for my guests to enhance their comfort and easy access to their religious affairs whenever they want to.
however, some days back, I had some Muslim guests take up lodgings in my hotel, hence some two days after they checked out, I got a surprise invasion of about 50 Muslim youths chanting some Hausa words that I didn't understand, when I was called out, I sought to find out the reason for their chants, they said I was desecrating the Holy Quaran and their religion by placing the Korans in my hotel rooms where all kinds of abominable things happen. that they would not tolerate that, either I retrieve the korans and hand it over to them or they will set fire to my hotel.
I called my director, who called in the police, after a protracted deliberations, I was told to retrieve the Korans but i didn't hand them over to the youths. at which point the policemen dispersed the protesting youths, after convincing them that I have removed the korans from all the rooms, leaving only the bibles.
I am now wondering, what is so different between the Koran and the Bible that it is not desecrated, instead it tends to prick peoples conscience when they want to commit any evil acts and see the bible, they have a change of heart.
why did they have to threaten to commit arson just because of a harmless and profitable decision that I took.
I need to understand this, guys, I want to read from you, did I do anything wrong by my actions?
should I also remove the bibles as I have done to the Koran?
clerics and religious experts, let me know your opinion on this.
thanks

Loool

You didn't do anything wrong.

That's just how Muslim's behave

Allah is everywhere

Quran can't be everywhere

Muslim logic.

urahara:



Loool

You didn't do anything wrong.

That's just how Muslim's behave

A Muslimophobe spoted. They never see anything right with Muslims! How does this answer the OP?

Anyways, keep it up! Your enmity to Islam and Muslims will only bring you shame!

tintingz:
Allah is everywhere

Quran can't be everywhere

Muslim logic.

Correction:

Allah is everywhere by His Knowledge and not physically! I guess this is beyond logic so you need evidence to believe in it.

How can Qur'an be everywhere? Toilets, bath,....filthy places.

martinlooter:
Hello Nairalanders,

I am a manager of a big Hotel that just opened new in a high brow area. So, I decided to place copies of the bible and Koran for my guests to enhance their comfort and easy access to their religious affairs whenever they want to.
however, some days back, I had some Muslim guests take up lodgings in my hotel, hence some two days after they checked out, I got a surprise invasion of about 50 Muslim youths chanting some Hausa words that I didn't understand, when I was called out, I sought to find out the reason for their chants, they said I was desecrating the Holy Quaran and their religion by placing the Korans in my hotel rooms where all kinds of abominable things happen. that they would not tolerate that, either I retrieve the korans and hand it over to them or they will set fire to my hotel.
I called my director, who called in the police, after a protracted deliberations, I was told to retrieve the Korans but i didn't hand them over to the youths. at which point the policemen dispersed the protesting youths, after convincing them that I have removed the korans from all the rooms, leaving only the bibles.
I am now wondering, what is so different between the Koran and the Bible that it is not desecrated, instead it tends to prick peoples conscience when they want to commit any evil acts and see the bible, they have a change of heart.
why did they have to threaten to commit arson just because of a harmless and profitable decision that I took.
I need to understand this, guys, I want to read from you, did I do anything wrong by my actions?
should I also remove the bibles as I have done to the Koran?
clerics and religious experts, let me know your opinion on this.
thanks

cc: lalasticlala
mynd44

please send to frontpage, let other people send in their opinions

This would have happened in the north. And the youth acted based on the love they had for the Qu'ran and Islam. However, we can't totally blame them as hotels in Nigeria are usually known for major sins particularly Zina (adultery and Fornication), alcohol, free mixing,etc which Islam forbids.
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Since the Hotel is a general hotel and not specifically for Muslims, the best way of doing this is to provide the Qur'an on request. They can be given that option on the counter.
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And Allah knows best.

Rashduct4luv

this recommendation of providing it on demand was what the Mobile Police Commander recommended, and that was what was generally accepted by the youths. else, they wanted to cart away all the korans in the hotel, and it would have resulted to pandemonium because there were some high profile guests and foreign diplomats in our hotel at the time, hence we couldn't allow the youths in.
however, what I want to ask you is this, are you saying that Muslim faithfuls don't indulge in zina? because I am a manager of a hotel in Abuja, and I can tell you what things many of these men and women do that I see. I don't want to mention names or their activities, but seriously, when it comes to sin everybody is guilty, both Christians and Muslims alike, none is innocent.

Rashduct4luv:


Correction:

Allah is everywhere by His Knowledge and not physically! I guess this is beyond logic so you need evidence to believe in it.

How can Qur'an be everywhere? Toilets, bath,....filthy places.

I am not expecting an imaginary entity to be physical in this natural world in the first place, If Allah knowledge is everywhere(some muslims will disagree with you) is he seeing people having sex in the Hotel?

Is Quran a living being that runs from toilet smell?

Can i recite Quran verses in the toilet?

martinlooter:
Rashduct4luv

this recommendation of providing it on demand was what the Mobile Police Commander recommended, and that was what was generally accepted by the youths. else, they wanted to cart away all the korans in the hotel, and it would have resulted to pandemonium because there were some high profile guests and foreign diplomats in our hotel at the time, hence we couldn't allow the youths in.
however, what I want to ask you is this, are you saying that Muslim faithfuls don't indulge in zina? because I am a manager of a hotel in Abuja, and I can tell you what things many of these men and women do that I see. I don't want to mention names or their activities, but seriously, when it comes to sin everybody is guilty, both Christians and Muslims alike, none is innocent.

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Actually no Muslim is a ''saint''. We sin and we seek repentance. Muslims ain't perfect but Islam is. And we love our Book more. And i tell you, you cant recognise a Muslim only by their dressing or looks. Some may dress like us or look like us but act differently in other fundamental aspects.

tintingz:
I am not expecting an imaginary entity to be physical in this natural world in the first place, If Allah knowlegde is everywhere is he seeing people having sex in the Hotel?

Is Quran a living being that runs from toilet smell?

Can i recite Quran verses in the toilet?

I think you are a lil bit knowledgeable. This is a part of Tawheed and only a Kufr-free mind can understand.

How can Allah see ...with knowledge? By knowledge, we mean He has knowledge of everything even before it was manifested. Omniscient in short.
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The Qur'an is the word of Allah. And it is not meant to be read in filthy places.

Rashduct4luv:


I think you are a lil bit knowledgeable. This is a part of Tawheed and only a Kufr-free mind can understand.

How can Allah see ...with knowledge? By knowledge, we mean He has knowledge of everything even before it was manifested. Omniscient in short.

First of all, not all muslim follow your idea that Allah is not physically everywhere but only his knowledge, you are simply limiting Allah to a place.

Secondly, Having knowledge of something can be limited, i can have knowledge that i have money in my pocket, i may not have knowledge of the exact amount i have in my pocket, the only way i can confirm is to bring out the money.

Does Allah knows people are having sex in the hotel but does not know Wizkid is the hotel? if he knows, how? did he imagine wizkid having sex? what if wizkid is not having sex? If Allah knew before it happen, where is the freewill?

The Qur'an is the word of Allah. And it is not meant to be read in filthy places.

Is the word of Allah limited?

It is really high time these Northern youths start using their thinking capacity. Everything is not gra gra. Are Nigerian hotel worse than Western hotels when it comes to fawaish(unholy activities)?. In any hotels you go in the US, they place Bible in each room, inside the drawer. Nothing else stays in the drawer with the Book. I have now noticed they are putting Quran too in the next drawer by the other side of the bed.

Quran or Bible may be in the drawer and whoever wants to commit fawaish would still do it. This is not the way to go about expressing your 'love'. I understand but it is getting too much now with this kind of uncultured attitude. If Nigeria or the region is lawless, islamic principle should have prevailed their silly approach. Now, hotel would remove Quran from the rooms but leave the Bible. Higher percentage of non-muslim guests will see no need to request for Quran. Many of them may not even know that Quran is available if hotel doesn't make provision for it. But if Quran is also placed there (without request), a non-muslim guest may decide to open and read quietly on their own.

Those youths need proper islamic education and adhab (etiquette). Everything doesn't have to be furious approach. So Mr. martinlooter, there isnt nothing wrong placing Quran in hotel. These youths just lost the opportunity to have non-muslims pick up the Quran and read it. As for the first comment, let's just say you are being prejudice. A section of muslims in the region acted in a silly manner is equal to all muslims?. Use your brain. You are part of the problems.

tintingz:
First of all, not all muslim follow your idea that Allah is not physically everywhere but only his knowledge, you are simply limiting Allah to a place.

Secondly, Having knowledge of something can be limited, i can have knowledge that i have money in my pocket, i may not have knowledge of the exact amount i have in my pocket, the only way i can confirm is to bring out the money.

Does Allah knows people are having sex in the hotel but does not know Wizkid is the hotel? if he knows, how? did he imagine wizkid having sex? what if wizkid is not having sex? If Allah knew before it happen, where is the freewill?

Is the word of Allah limited?

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Error 1. I never mentioned place while discussing Allah. He does not need to be present in a place to know the origin, future, end and all that will happen in any place.
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Error 2. We don't compare Allaah to humans or any of His creations. Never!
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Error 3. Not all Muslims obey Allaah. This is true! Every Muslim ought to believe Allah is present everywhere by His Knowledge and not physically.
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Error 4. Allaah by His knowledge know what will happen and had it written down. So whatever happens is what He had written. Everything is written in the book of decrees.
On the other hand, man has freewill to do some things and not to do other things. To believe in Him or to disbelieve in Him. Allah knows his choice(s). Allah sent messengers to mankind to show them the path. Some followed while some disbelieved. Allaah does not compel anyone to do evil, or to choose kufr (disbelief). This is freewill and it is part of destiny!
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The Qur'an is limited textually (but the word of Allah is unlimited) and eternal in application!

You have alot of flaws in your reaction/response.

Rashduct4luv:

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Error 1. I never mentioned place while discussing Allah. He does not need to be present in a place to know the origin, future, end and all that will happen in any place.

If you didn't mention a place, the Quran and Hadith already said Allah is in the first heaven sitting on a throne.

Error 2. We don't compare Allaah to humans or any of His creations. Never!

Then why is Allah refer as "he" "him" like a male-figure, let's start with that.

Error 3. Not all Muslims obey Allaah. This is true! Every Muslim ought to believe Allah is present everywhere by His Knowledge and not physically.

So how are we to know Muslims that obey Allah? Every Creed, sects are claiming the right one using Islamic manuscripts.

Error 4. Allaah by His knowledge know what will happen and had it written down. So whatever happens is what He had written. Everything is written in the book of decrees.
On the other hand, man has freewill to do some things and not to do other things. To believe in Him or to disbelieve in Him. Allah knows his choice(s). Allah sent messengers to mankind to show them the path. Some followed while some disbelieved. Allaah does not compel anyone to do evil, or to choose kufr (disbelief). This is freewill and it is part of destiny!

This is confusing, if everything has been writting down from birth to death to afterlife then how is freewill playing a role here?

It has been written down that I will reject Allah in so so year, months, day and time, it has been written down I will go to hell, please tell me am I acting on freewill or what that has been written down?

The Qur'an is limited textually (but the word of Allah is unlimited) and eternal in application!

But you just said I can't recite the Quran in the toilet, how is word of Allah unlimited when it can't be recite in the hotel, toilet?

tintingz:
You have alot of flaws in your reaction/response.


If you didn't mention a place, the Quran and Hadith already said Allah is in the first heaven sitting on a throne.

Then why is Allah refer as "he" "him" like a male-figure, let's start with that.

So how are we to know Muslims that obey Allah? Every Creed, sects are claiming the right one using Islamic manuscripts.

This is confusing, if everything has been writting down from birth to death to afterlife then how is freewill playing a role here?

It has been written down that I will reject Allah in so so year, months, day and time, it has been written down I will go to hell, please tell me am I acting on freewill or what that has been written down?

But you just said I can't recite the Quran in the toilet, how is word of Allah unlimited when it can't be recite in the hotel, toilet?

This your atheistic approach is sickening. Can't you read between the lines again?
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One more time: Answering Accordingly:

1. We don't use logic when talking about the Creator of logic cos here logic sucks.
“Allah, it is He Who has created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them in six days. Then He rose over (istawa) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty). You (mankind) have none, besides Him, as a Wali (protector or helper) or an intercessor. Will you not then remember (or receive admonition)?” [32:4]
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2. Allah can use whatever He so desires to qualify Himself. But what other gender (Pronoun) where you expecting?
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3. Look for the Muslims upon what the Prophet salallahu alayhi wa salam and his companions were upon.
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4. Allah by His knowledge has written it that you would be an atheist but He had showed you the right way but you rejected it. He wrote it that the message of Islam will be laid plain in front of you as i am doing right now. He has also wrote your choice. He did not chose it for you. You will choose it yourself.
Predestination is unknown to the creation until it happens. I don't know why it's so hard to grab.
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The word of Allah is sacred and we honor it by reciting it in a honorable place. Toilet is a filthy place. Can you even entertain your guest in a toilet? Recitation is worship and we can't recite in the toilet.
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Quit derailing the thread. You can open another thread if you really wish to know!
May Allah guide u and keep the Muslims firm till the end.

Why is tintingz keeps derailing this thread with the same irrelevant topic?. You are derailing this thread again like you did to the other one.

If you want to be Atheist that's your problem

Rashduct4luv:


This your atheistic approach is sickening. Can't you read between the lines again?

I'm yet to understand your point.

One more time: Answering Accordingly:

1. We don't use logic when talking about the Creator of logic cos here logic sucks.
“Allah, it is He Who has created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them in six days. Then He rose over (istawa) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty). You (mankind) have none, besides Him, as a Wali (protector or helper) or an intercessor. Will you not then remember (or receive admonition)?” [32:4]

Creator of Logic right, how does this sound logical, Allah created everything, he created Adam and Eve and install a mysterious tree for them not to eat from it. He allow shaytan to tempt them and then he's angry at people who disobeyed him just because of his carelessness, his fault for allowing shaytan to decieve people, now tell me how those that sound logical? I wonder who's creator of illogical.

* Its either Allah sit on a throne somewhere in first heaven or he's everywhere physically and stop confusing yourself.

2. Allah can use whatever He so desires to qualify Himself. But what other gender (Pronoun) where you expecting?

Is using "She" "It" for Allah problematic to you?

3. Look for the Muslims upon what the Prophet salallahu alayhi wa salam and his companions were upon.

Every Muslims claim this.

Every sects are claiming the right one.

4. Allah by His knowledge has written it that you would be an atheist but He had showed you the right way but you rejected it. He wrote it that the message of Islam will be laid plain in front of you as i am doing right now. He has also wrote your choice. He did not chose it for you. You will choose it yourself.
Predestination is unknown to the creation until it happens. I don't know why it's so hard to grab.

I can't grab because your post here is irrational and confusing.

My choice has been written down that one day i will abadon Islam yet I've freewill? Does that make sense to you?

You're playing a script role in a movie, you acted everything written down in the script, please can you tell me the freewill here?

Ofcos predestination is unknown to us because it's an illusion.

The word of Allah is sacred and we honor it by reciting it in a honorable place. Toilet is a filthy place. Can you even entertain your guest in a toilet? Recitation is worship and we can't recite in the toilet.

Again, I ask, is the Quran a living being that runs from smell of toilet?

You said Allah's words are unlimited yet we can't read it in the toilet, please how then it's unlimited? Do you know what unlimited means?
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Quit derailing the thread. You can open another thread if you really wish to know!
May Allah guide u and keep the Muslims firm till the end.

I think this thread is ok for this discussion.

Empiree:
Why is tintingz keeps derailing this thread with the same irrelevant topic?. You are derailing this thread again like you did to the other one.

If you want to be Atheist that's your problem

I'm not derailing this thread and it's not irrelevant, every discussion, argument are relevant except you're not ready for critical thinking.

My discussion here is still about the unlimited and limited of Allah's word a.k.a the Quran.

tintingz:
I'm not derailing this thread and it's not irrelevant, every discussion, argument are relevant except you're not ready for critical thinking.

My discussion here is still about the unlimited and limited of Allah's word a.k.a the Quran.

if I count how many threads you have been saying this, it is probably ten. And you are duly answered

Empiree:
if I count how many threads you have been saying this, it is probably ten. And you are duly answered

This is my first discussion about the limitation of Allah's word.

tintingz:
This is my first discussion about the limitation of Allah's word.

Allah does not have limits.

Empiree:
Allah does not have limits.

Two questions you need to answer,

# Is Allah everywhere?

# Can the Quran be recite anywhere?

you are just perambulating as i said before. I dont know if yiu take pleasure for doing this. They have answered you, isnt?

tintingz:
Two questions you need to answer,

# Is Allah everywhere?

"There is no one to share His dominion, nor does He take an aide or supporter from His creatures. He is nearer to man than man's own jugular vein." Al-Qur'an 50:16

# Can the Quran be recite anywhere?

And is there anything stopping you ?

Empiree:
you are just perambulating as i said before. I dont know if yiu take pleasure for doing this. They have answered you, isnt? "There is no one to share His dominion, nor does He take an aide or supporter from His creatures. He is nearer to man than man's own jugular vein." Al-Qur'an 50:16

Your fellow Muslim above said Allah is not everywhere "physically" but only his knowledge, do you agree?

And is there anything stopping you ?

Will I be beheaded if I take the Quran to the public toilet to read, can you do that?

tintingz:
Your fellow Muslim above said Allah is not everywhere "physically" but only his knowledge, do you agree?

I know this is where you coming. Thats the verse of Quran and many related verses like that and those verses which attest to His Might, Knowledge, Wisdom and Closeness to us. Therefore, Allah is close to us by His Attributes not His presence Self. So i agree with him. Thats the correct meaning of those verses.

Will I be beheaded if I take the Quran to the public toilet to read, can you do that?

Again, i knew you wanted to mention toilet. You will always find me ahead of you. So what cause do you have to read Quran in public toilet where everyone defecates?. How do you feel comfortable reading there?. Even one feels uncomfortable reading ordinary book in the toilet. So i ask again, toilet is meant for relieving your and leave. It is a temporary uncomfortable place. That's why they build libraries.

Empiree:
I know this is where you coming. Thats the verse of Quran and many related verses like that and those verses which attest to His Might, Knowledge, Wisdom and Closeness to us. Therefore, Allah is close to us by His Attributes not His presence Self. So i agree with him. Thats the correct meaning of those verses.

Ok, since Allah presence self is not everywhere, where is he actually?

Again, i knew you wanted to mention toilet. You will always find me ahead of you. So what cause do you have to read Quran in public toilet where everyone defecates?. How do you feel comfortable reading there?. Even one feels uncomfortable reading ordinary book in the toilet. So i ask again, toilet is meant for relieving your and leave. It is a temporary uncomfortable place. That's why they build libraries.

I decide to run to a public toilet due to a circumstances and i brought out my phone reciting the Quran from it, what do you say about that?

tintingz:
Ok, since Allah presence self is not everywhere, where is he actually?

dragging this with you will be endless cycle. I will just give you just illustration. Where is your sense?. If it is in your head, where exactly it is lodged in your head?. When you answer this, only then i can see you have sense.

I decide to run to a public toilet due to a circumstances and i brought out my phone reciting the Quran from it, what do you say about that?

Oh well, you seem to have change your original plan. Here you mentioned phone. Yes, phone may automatically play or replay the app if it already installed. There is no problem with this. Mine acts this way sometimes. What's your point?

Empiree:
dragging this with you will be endless cycle. I will just give you just illustration. Where is your sense?. If it is in your head, where exactly it is lodged in your head?. When you answer this, only then i can see you have sense.

Every part of the brain is the sense, they all function together as the sense, conciousness, thoughts etc, any damage in any part of the brain is a problem.

So I don't understand this your analogy.

You said God is not actually present in this our natural world, then where is God, he must be sitting on a throne somewhere.

Oh well, you seem to have change your original plan. Here you mentioned phone. Yes, phone may automatically play or replay the app if it already installed. There is no problem with this. Mine acts this way sometimes. What's your point?

The word is the point, can I recite the Quran passages in the toilet intentionally?

tintingz:

Every part of the brain is the sense, they all function together as the sense, conciousness, thoughts etc, any damage in any part of the brain is a problem.

So I don't understand this your analogy.

You said God is not actually present in this our natural world, then where is God, he must be sitting on a throne somewhere.

See, you can't see your sense nor can you pinpoint where it is. That's the point. This case is closed.

The word is the point, can I recite the Quran passages in the toilet intentionally?

Why would you deliberately go into the public bathroom just to read any book for that matter?. No one beheads you for reading in the bathroom. Stop exaggerating. Next person to use the bathroom alone could beat you up for holding them up to begin with.

Empiree:
See, you can't the your sense nor can you pinpoint where it is. That's the point. This case is closed.

SMH, I will close your ignorance on this.

Like I said, every part of the brain works together,

The Frontal Lobe is located just behind the skull of the forehead, and it governs our ability to reason, make judgments, organize information and control some motor/muscle functions.

The Parietal Lobe is near the back and top of the head. It’s involved with visual attention, sensation (touch and pressure) and integration of senses.

The Occipital Lobe is located at the back of the skull and controls vision.

The Temporal Lobes are located on each side of the head above the ears. They control hearing and are related to smell, taste and short-term memory (especially visual and verbal).
Source

Google is not fighting you!

So oga, I have showed you where senses are located in the brain, now can you tell me where is Allah if he's not presently everywhere?

Why would you deliberately go into the public bathroom just to read any book for that matter?. No one beheads you for reading in the bathroom. Stop exaggerating. Next person to use the bathroom alone could beat you up for holding them up to begin with.

I said for some circumstances, e.g there is a riot going on and the safer place for me is to run and hide in the public toilet, I brought out my phone reading Quranic passage for imaginary intervention(miracle) from the entity above, can I read the Quran in the toilet?

tintingz:
SMH, I will close your ignorance on this.

Like I said, every part of the brain works together,

The Frontal Lobe is located just behind the skull of the forehead, and it governs our ability to reason, make judgments, organize information and control some motor/muscle functions.

The Parietal Lobe is near the back and top of the head. It’s involved with visual attention, sensation (touch and pressure) and integration of senses.

The Occipital Lobe is located at the back of the skull and controls vision.

The Temporal Lobes are located on each side of the head above the ears. They control hearing and are related to smell, taste and short-term memory (especially visual and verbal).
Source

All these you mentioned are TANGIBLE. Sense however is ABSTRACT. Everything you mentioned are controlled by sense; without sense, they are useless. So i ask you again, where your sense located?

Empiree:
All these you mentioned are TANGIBLE. Sense however is ABSTRACT. Everything you mentioned are controlled by sense; without sense, they are useless. So i ask you again, where your sense located?

But I just mentioned where the signals of our body goes to and interpret it, what else do you want, can there be sense or conciousness without the brain? Why are you being dishonest to yourself?

You know what, define sense...?

And your analogy is kind of flawed, since our sense relies/depend on our brain, you mean Allah is dependent in this universe, he is limited to this world that anything we destroy, destroys part of Allah?