₦airaland Forum

OkCornel:
You are using scriptures from the Bible to argue against scriptures from the same Bible.

Read Romans 3:27-28 again...you are confusing works of the Law for fruits of the Spirit which is the works James was referring to...how else can I pass this message across again? with concordance?

Please don't tell me you are confusing the works James was referring to as works of the Law Paul was preaching about in Romans 3:27-28

I believe you are educated.

See again

Romans 3:27-28
[27]Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
[28]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Ephesians 2:8-9
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9]Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Romans says works of the law , granted it confuses you. What about Galatians?
He says YOU ARE NOT SAVED BY WORKS (not adding law).

Prove me wrong. If you cant, sit down, sir.

The teachings and Parables of Jesus are there for you to read. If you are not comfortable, go and argue with Jesus & Paul on;

Your ignorance is a stronghold. It doesn't learn.

Argue with Jesus where He says his teachings were not all of the truth. John 16:12-13. Argue with the bible that says the early church of Christ is built on the Apostles doctrines. Acts 2:42. Kai! Heavyweight!

1) what He meant by barren branches being pruned off the vine.
2) What the teachings on works being tested by fire meant
3) How professing a faith without fruits of the Spirit to show for it can take you to heaven.

I addressed the first point twice on this thread. You appear to be slow to learn.

I addressed the second in my last post. But you clearly didn't read it.

Then for the third point.

I always said Ask Apostle Paul for calling the Corinthian church "babies in Christ" even though they were walking in the flesh.

I guess he wasn't heaven minded.

Besides, chill with this...

Ephesians 2:8-9
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9]Not of works, lest any man should boast.


It answers it. Doesn't it?
Its English language.

Read Ephesians 2 v 9... it is a caution not to let the works of the Spirit bring pride into you just like how it has done to "Men of God" before their fall...

Ephesians 2:8-9
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9]Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Which Eph 2:9 says all that? The one in your village abi. . Na wa o.

This one says a man is not saved by works, lest we boast. Its too clear.

you can read God's Generals for further details on how some great men started well and ended badly... WORKS ALONE...cannot get you into heaven...neither can FAITH ALONE, both are a complement of each other. Works (not of the Law or Flesh ooo) is evidence of a functioning faith. Absence of it...is a dead faith that would get you nowhere!

Romans 10:9
[9]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

I guess, that bolded par is a lie if your statements are anything to go by. Shebi?

Give me just one scripture where he says

faith alone will not get you to heaven or any scripture that says ROM 10:9 or Gal 3:8-9 is a lie
Just one o.

BACK TO THE ORIGINAL MATTER ON GROUND...YOU SEEM TO BE A PRO-TITHER...can you help asuustrike2009 and your other pro-tither colleagues answer my questions on tithing?

Whatever!

Just read and address my post well and prove the scriptures wrong.

OkCornel:
My bad... I made a hasty conclusion there. Sound write up.

Back to our discussion now that the tithe part is clear...I could swear I thought I read something on Sheeples to keep on paying tithes to Pastors in the name of giving though...Once more, my sincere apologies on the hasty conclusion. BUT please bear in mind that the major thing is for these false doctrines not to be preached or implemented in church as opposed to condoning it...

I share the same opinion on tithing as per your write up. It is not only unscriptural...but also unrealistic to tithe the way God demands it...

Now we can continue our discussions on Faith and Work

I am actually not surprised.

damosky12:
I believe you are educated.

See again

Romans 3:27-28
[27]Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
[28]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Ephesians 2:8-9
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9]Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Romans says works of the law , granted it confuses you. What about Galatians?
He says YOU ARE NOT SAVED BY WORKS (not adding law).

Prove me wrong. If you cant, sit down, sir.



Your ignorance is a stronghold. It doesn't learn.

Argue with Jesus where He says his teachings were not all of the truth. John 16:12-13. Argue with the bible that says the early church of Christ is built on the Apostles doctrines. Acts 2:42. Kai! Heavyweight!




I addressed the first point twice on this thread. You appear to be slow to learn.

I addressed the second in my last post. But you clearly didn't read it.

Then for the third point.

I always said Ask Apostle Paul for calling the Corinthian church "babies in Christ" even though they were walking in the flesh.

I guess he wasn't heaven minded.

Besides, chill with this...

Ephesians 2:8-9
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9]Not of works, lest any man should boast.


It answers it. Doesn't it?
Its English language.



Ephesians 2:8-9
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9]Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Which Eph 2:9 says all that? The one in your village abi. . Na wa o.






Romans 10:9
[9]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

I guess, that bolded par is a lie if your statements are anything to go by. Shebi?

Give me just one scripture where he says

faith alone will not get you to heaven or any scripture that says ROM 10:9 or Gal 3:8-9 is a lie
Just one o.



Whatever!

Just read and address my post well and prove the scriptures wrong.

Double post

damosky12:
I believe you are educated.

See again

Romans 3:27-28
[27]Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
[28]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Ephesians 2:8-9
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9]Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Romans says works of the law , granted it confuses you. What about Galatians?
He says YOU ARE NOT SAVED BY WORKS (not adding law).

Prove me wrong. If you cant, sit down, sir.



Your ignorance is a stronghold. It doesn't learn.

Argue with Jesus where He says his teachings were not all of the truth. John 16:12-13. Argue with the bible that says the early church of Christ is built on the Apostles doctrines. Acts 2:42. Kai! Heavyweight!




I addressed the first point twice on this thread. You appear to be slow to learn.

I addressed the second in my last post. But you clearly didn't read it.

Then for the third point.

I always said Ask Apostle Paul for calling the Corinthian church "babies in Christ" even though they were walking in the flesh.

I guess he wasn't heaven minded.

Besides, chill with this...

Ephesians 2:8-9
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9]Not of works, lest any man should boast.


It answers it. Doesn't it?
Its English language.



Ephesians 2:8-9
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9]Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Which Eph 2:9 says all that? The one in your village abi. . Na wa o.






Romans 10:9
[9]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

I guess, that bolded par is a lie if your statements are anything to go by. Shebi?

Give me just one scripture where he says

faith alone will not get you to heaven or any scripture that says ROM 10:9 or Gal 3:8-9 is a lie
Just one o.



Whatever!

Just read and address my post well and prove the scriptures wrong.

Now I am convinced you are a genuine seeker of the TRUTH...so let's start over again if you have the patience..

Let us start all over again with the teachings of Jesus before moving into Paul and the Other Apostles' letter, then we examine the letters of the Apostles vis-a-vis Jesus' teachings;

Check out Matthew 25 v 31-46.

Based on what Jesus said in there clearly...what separates the goats from the sheeps? Faith OR Works/Fruits/Results of their faith?

Jesus and the Apostles are not confused human beings that speaks from both sides of their mouth; Your position is Faith Alone whereas I'm saying Faith + Works (not of the flesh nor Law).

I asked you a question...if a serial rapist can confess Jesus is Lord...and believes He rose from the dead and all of that, and has nothing whatsoever per his lifestyle to show he's a follower of Jesus, can such a person make heaven despite believing Jesus is LORD? Bear in mind that even Demons believe Jesus is the LORD...

What was the situation on ground that could have driven Paul to write this: "shall we continue in sin that God's grace might abound?"

Clear this one...unless my understanding of Faith and Belief is wrong here...

damosky12:
I am actually not surprised.

Surprised at what? that I can make an error as such? or you have never ever been guilty of something similar in your entire life?

It's embarrassing BUT when I'm wrong, I don't waste time admitting my wrong even though it's not easy (people have their pride to protect, but I don't attach much importance to that in my quest for TRUTH)...

I learn from gaffes like this and life goes on...

damosky12:
I believe you are educated.

See again

Romans 3:27-28
[27]Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
[28]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Ephesians 2:8-9
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9]Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Romans says works of the law , granted it confuses you. What about Galatians?
He says YOU ARE NOT SAVED BY WORKS (not adding law).

Prove me wrong. If you cant, sit down, sir.



Your ignorance is a stronghold. It doesn't learn.

Argue with Jesus where He says his teachings were not all of the truth. John 16:12-13. Argue with the bible that says the early church of Christ is built on the Apostles doctrines. Acts 2:42. Kai! Heavyweight!




I addressed the first point twice on this thread. You appear to be slow to learn.

I addressed the second in my last post. But you clearly didn't read it.

Then for the third point.

I always said Ask Apostle Paul for calling the Corinthian church "babies in Christ" even though they were walking in the flesh.

I guess he wasn't heaven minded.

Besides, chill with this...

Ephesians 2:8-9
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9]Not of works, lest any man should boast.


It answers it. Doesn't it?
Its English language.



Ephesians 2:8-9
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9]Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Which Eph 2:9 says all that? The one in your village abi. . Na wa o.

This one says a man is not saved by works, lest we boast. Its too clear.





Romans 10:9
[9]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

I guess, that bolded par is a lie if your statements are anything to go by. Shebi?

Give me just one scripture where he says

faith alone will not get you to heaven or any scripture that says ROM 10:9 or Gal 3:8-9 is a lie
Just one o.





Whatever!

Just read and address my post well and prove the scriptures wrong.

Per the part I bolded in red...the question you should ask is if we are meant to be babies forever OR grow in the Spirit with fruits/works/testimonies to show for this as a living faith and not a dead or stagnated faith.

Like I mentioned earlier, Jesus doesn't speak from both sides of His mouth. Read what was revealed to John in Revelation 22 v 12-14

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

These are Jesus' words to John in Revelation. Now having Faith and Belief in Jesus is the first step, but do not mistake the first step as the only step to be taken in the journey to the eternal Heavens. That is what I am drawing your attention to. There's no place for the barren fig trees in the kingdom of Heaven...nor for barren branches in the vine

You cannot have Faith in Jesus with no fruits or works of the Spirit as evidence for this faith...lest, even those working in the flesh can profess the faith and just be chilling to enter Heaven...

The danger with "Faith alone" doctrine is breeding of unproductive Christians which is totally against what Jesus or the Apostles preached.

OkCornel:
Just to ensure we are not digressing from the purpose of this thread;

Soulpeppersoup and asuustrike2009, please I am still awaiting your response where God instructed that tithes should be paid in monetary form.

Kindly open your bibles and show us how God instructed tithes to be paid. Then tell me if the church is obeying God's instruction since you are insisting on the validity and obligation of tithing in Christendom

Thank you.

And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king's dale. 18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. 19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: 20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. Genesis 14:17-20 (KJV)

Abraham gave tithe of all including money. All is all not some.


Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.
Isaiah 51:2 (KJV)


If you need the Abrahamic blessing, you must do it the way he did it.

soulpeppersoup:
And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king's dale. 18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. 19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: 20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. Genesis 14:17-20 (KJV)

Abraham gave tithe of all including money. All is all not some.


Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.
Isaiah 51:2 (KJV)


If you need the Abrahamic blessing, you must do it the way he did it.

Why are you wasting your time explaining? They have made up their mind to think that way even were scriptures are cited on tithing. No need replying him because you're just wasting your time

soulpeppersoup:
If you need the Abrahamic blessing, you must do it the way he did it.

You are very correct my brother...

The problem is that most if not all Christians do not need Abrahamic blessing but God's blessing.

But as for those of us looking for Abrahamic blessings, here is also a list of other things we MUST do the way he did it.

1. sleep with and impregnate our wives' maids.
2. offer burnt sacrifices.
3. be willing to offer our sons as burnt offering.
4. lie about the relationship with our wives.

soulpeppersoup:
And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king's dale. 18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. 19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: 20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. Genesis 14:17-20 (KJV)

Abraham gave tithe of all including money. All is all not some.


Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.
Isaiah 51:2 (KJV)


If you need the Abrahamic blessing, you must do it the way he did it.

Where did God instruct Abraham to pay tithes to Melchizedek? Was it God's instruction or Abraham's discretion?

I have warned against substituting God's instructions for the discretionary actions of men

Why did God instruct tithes to be paid the way He clearly stated it in Deutoronomy?

By the way, if we are looking up to Abraham rather than Jesus, kindly tell me if it is scriptural to impregnate my house maid if my wife is barren ...even if my wife consents to it.

IF YOU STUDY THE LIFE OF ABRAHAM, YOU WILL REALIZE THAT GOD HAD ALREADY BLESSED ABRAHAM LONG BEFORE HE TITHED, HIS BLESSINGS WERE TIED TO GOD'S PROMISE AND NOT THE TITHE HE PAID.

Thank you.

rejosom:
You are very correct my brother...

The problem is that most if not all Christians do not need Abrahamic blessing but God's blessing.

But as for those of us looking for Abrahamic blessings, here is also a list of other things we MUST do the way he did it.

1. sleep with and impregnate our wives' maids.
2. offer burnt sacrifices.
3. be willing to offer our sons as burnt offering.
4. lie about the relationship with our wives.

You just read my mind mehn... The guy quoted that verse from Isaiah without thinking that prior to Jesus' time, Abraham's blessings was the best standard available back then...

asuustrike2009:
Why are you wasting your time explaining? They have made up their mind to think that way even were scriptures are cited on tithing. No need replying him because you're just wasting your time

You still haven't told us how you pay your tithe...since you insist it is relevant in modern times and also scriptural for Christians (not Judaists) to adhere to

Are you doing it the way God Almighty instructed it should be done?

OkCornel:
Where did God instruct Abraham to pay tithes to Melchizedek? Was it God's instruction or Abraham's discretion?

I have warned against substituting God's instructions for the discretionary actions of men

Why did God instruct tithes to be paid the way He clearly stated it in Deutoronomy?

By the way, if we are looking up to Abraham rather than Jesus, kindly tell me if it is scriptural to impregnate my house maid if my wife is barren ...even if my wife consents to it.

IF YOU STUDY THE LIFE OF ABRAHAM, YOU WILL REALIZE THAT GOD HAD ALREADY BLESSED ABRAHAM LONG BEFORE HE TITHED, HIS BLESSINGS WERE TIED TO GOD'S PROMISE AND NOT THE TITHE HE PAID.

Thank you.

If it was Abraham discretion and not God's instruction, he wouldn't have passed it to Isaac. For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him. Gen 18:19 (KJV). To show it was an instruction, immediately after the tithe issue God said to him as recorded in Genesis 15:1, "After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward." Gen 15:1 (KJV). He tell him not to be afraid of the 5 kings he just fought against and that He is his inheritance.

You say you have warned against what? You need the Holy Spirit to understand the scriptures. We compare spiritual things with spiritual.

Because Christ had not come and had not become our high priest after the other of melkezedec who received the first tithe. And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. 5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. Heb 5:4-6 (KJV)

The things people over look is that Jesus has no blessing. The blessing of the kingdom was willed to Abraham. Jesus made the gentiles the sons of Abraham that they may partake of the inheritance of Abraham. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 [s]That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ;[/s] that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Gal 3:13-14 (KJV)

You no nothing about the promise. The promise of being a blessing was tied to tithe as the promise of being the father of many nations was tied to the sacrifice of Isaac. I don't expect you to understand though.

rejosom:
You are very correct my brother...

The problem is that most if not all Christians do not need Abrahamic blessing but God's blessing.

But as for those of us looking for Abrahamic blessings, here is also a list of other things we MUST do the way he did it.

1. sleep with and impregnate our wives' maids.
2. offer burnt sacrifices.
3. be willing to offer our sons as burnt offering.
4. lie about the relationship with our wives.

Sorry God willed his blessing to Abraham that Jesus has no blessing beside the Abrahamic blessing. He said, Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: 2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and[b] in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed[/b]. Gen 12:1-3 (KJV). Christ can't give you blessing, he can only make you a seed of Abraham to partake of the inheritance of God. After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: [s]I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward[/s][s][/s].
Gen 15:1 (KJV)

You can mock but that is the written will of God. It's given to Abraham and his descendants.

asuustrike2009:
Why are you wasting your time explaining? They have made up their mind to think that way even were scriptures are cited on tithing. No need replying him because you're just wasting your time

Am doing it for those who might be wrongly thought but I think I have given much information on this. Thanks

soulpeppersoup:
If it was Abraham discretion and not God's instruction, he wouldn't have passed it to Isaac. For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him. Gen 18:19 (KJV). To show it was an instruction, immediately after the tithe issue God said to him as recorded in Genesis 15:1, "After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward." Gen 15:1 (KJV). He tell him not to be afraid of the 5 kings he just fought against and that He is his inheritance.

You say you have warned against what? You need the Holy Spirit to understand the scriptures. We compare spiritual things with spiritual.

Because Christ had not come and had not become our high priest after the other of melkezedec who received the first tithe. And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. 5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. Heb 5:4-6 (KJV)

The things people over look is that Jesus has no blessing. The blessing of the kingdom was willed to Abraham. Jesus made the gentiles the sons of Abraham that they may partake of the inheritance of Abraham. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 [s]That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ;[/s] that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Gal 3:13-14 (KJV)

You no nothing about the promise. The promise of being a blessing was tied to tithe as the promise of being the father of many nations was tied to the sacrifice of Isaac. I don't expect you to understand though.

1) Any evidence of Isaac tithing in the scriptures and who he tithed to?

2) How did God instruct tithes to be given?
10% of what exactly? Do you need evidence from the Bible or Rabbinic literature or Jewish History?

3) Does monetary tithing have any basis in the scriptures based on the instructions God gave on tithing in Deuteronomy 14 v 22-23?

22 Thou shalt [f]give the tithe of all the increase of thy seed, that cometh forth of the field year by year.

23 And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God (in the place which he shall choose to cause his Name to dwell there) the tithe of thy corn, of
thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstborn of thy kine, and of thy sheep, that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always.

4) If Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the Law, is tithing still a mandatory practice for Christians to adhere to? Especially when you consider
Hebrews 7 v 12?

12 For if the Priesthood be changed, then of necessity must there be a change of the Law.

5) Considering the previous point raised, are Christians who do not tithe under a curse?

6) Is tithing a Jewish custom tied to the religion of Judaism? Did it apply to the Gentile Christians in the early church?

OkCornel:
Any evidence of Isaac tithing in the scriptures and who he tithed to?

How did God instruct tithes to be given?

10% of what exactly? Do you need evidence from the Bible or Rabbinic literature or Jewish History?

And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, 21 So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God: 22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
Gen 28:20-22 (KJV)

Abraham didn't teach Jacob, so who did?

soulpeppersoup:
And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, 21 So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God: 22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
Gen 28:20-22 (KJV)

Abraham didn't teach Jacob, so who did?

Was that Jacob's choice or God's instruction?

Who did Isaac and Jacob pay tithes to and how?

soulpeppersoup:
And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, 21 So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God: 22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
Gen 28:20-22 (KJV)

Abraham didn't teach Jacob, so who did?

1) Any evidence of Isaac tithing in the scriptures and who he tithed to?

2) How did God instruct tithes to be given?
10% of what exactly? Do you need evidence from the Bible or Rabbinic literature or Jewish History?

3) Does monetary tithing have any basis in the scriptures based on the instructions God gave on tithing in Deuteronomy 14 v 22-23?

22 Thou shalt give the tithe of all the increase of thy seed, that cometh forth of the field year by year.

23 And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God (in the place which he shall choose to cause his Name to dwell there) the tithe of thy corn, of
thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstborn of thy kine, and of thy sheep, that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always.

4) If Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the Law, is tithing still a mandatory practice for Christians to adhere to? Especially when you consider
Hebrews 7 v 12?

12 For if the Priesthood be changed, then of necessity must there be a change of the Law.

5) Considering the previous point raised, are Christians who do not tithe under a curse?

6) Is tithing a Jewish custom tied to the religion of Judaism? Did it apply to the Gentile Christians in the early church?

7) Did the blessings of God (i.e. prosperity) on Abraham manifest in his life before or after he tithed to Melchizedek?

soulpeppersoup:
And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, 21 So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God: 22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
Gen 28:20-22 (KJV)

Abraham didn't teach Jacob, so who did?

Let us examine how the Jews tithed after God gave them the instructions on tithing in Deuteronomy. Then tell me why they didn't use money or gold & silver to tithe

Tithes in Judaism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Tithing in the Temple
The tithe is specifically mentioned in the Books of Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. The tithe system was organized in a seven-year cycle, the seventh-year corresponding to the Shemittah-cycle in which year tithes were broken-off, and in every third and sixth-year of this cycle the Second tithe replaced with the Poor man's tithe. These tithes were in reality more like taxes for the people of Israel and were mandatory, not optional giving. This tithe was distributed locally "within thy gates" (Deuteronomy 14:28) to support the Levites and assist the poor. Every year, Bikkurim, Terumah, Ma'aser Rishon and Terumat Ma'aser were separated from the grain, wine and oil (Deuteronomy 14:22). Initially, the commandment to separate tithes from one's produce only applied when the entire nation of Israel had settled in the Land of Israel. The Returnees from the Babylonian exile who had resettled the country were a Jewish minority, and who, although they were not obligated to tithe their produce, put themselves under a voluntary bind to do so, and which practice became obligatory upon all.

Terumah (Heave-offering)
The first obligation that was incumbent upon an Israelite or Jew was to separate from his harvested grain (wheat, barley, spelt, etc.), wine (including unpressed grapes) and oil (including unpressed olives) the one-fiftieth portion of these products (or one-fortieth, if he were a man of generosity; and one-sixtieth if he were stingy) and to give the same to a man of Aaron's lineage (priestly stock), who, in turn, would eat such fruits in a state of ritual cleanness, in accordance with a biblical command, "...and let him not eat of the holy things, until he bathes his flesh in water. And when the sun goes down down, he will be clean, and shall afterward eat of the holy things because it is his food" (Leviticus 22:6). This obligation was contingent upon the fact that such fruits grew in the Land of Israel. Later, the Rabbis made it an obligation to do the same for all fruits and vegetables grown in the Land of Israel, and not only to such fruits as grain, grapes and olives. With the destruction of the Temple and the cessation of ritual purity, the obligation to separate the Terumah continued unabated, although it was no longer given to a priest of Aaron's lineage, since bodily defilement was now pervasive. The general practice after the Temple's destruction was to separate the Terumah from all fruits and vegetables by removing even the slightest portion thereof, and to immediately discard it by burial or some other means of disposal (since it can no longer be eaten in the current state of ritual uncleanness, and those doing so would make themselves liable to extirpation).

OkCornel:
Was that Jacob's choice or God's instruction?

Who did Isaac and Jacob pay tithes to and how?

For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him. 20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
Gen 18:19-20 (KJV)

Your question have become ridiculous so I will stop here. If you want to learn go through my answers to your questions with open mind.

First tithe
The first tithe is giving of one tenth of the remaining agricultural produce (after removing from the produce the standard Terumah) to the Levite (or Aaronic priests). Historically, during the First Temple period, the first tithe was given to the Levites. Approximately at the beginning of the Second Temple construction, Ezra and his Beth din implemented its giving to the kohanim.

The Levites, also known as the Tribe of Levi, were descendants of Levi. They were assistants to the Aaronic priests (who were the children of Aaron and, therefore, a subset of the Tribe of Levi) and did not own or inherit a territorial patrimony (Numbers 18:21-28). Their function in society was that of temple functionaries, teachers and trusted civil servants who supervised the weights and scales and witnessed agreements. The goods donated from the other Israeli tribes were their source of sustenance. They received from "all Israel" a tithe of food or livestock for support, and in turn would set aside a tenth portion of that tithe (known as the Terumat hamaaser) for the Aaronic priests.

soulpeppersoup:
For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him. 20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
Gen 18:19-20 (KJV)

Your question have become ridiculous so I will stop here. If you want to learn go through my answers to your questions with open mind.

No need to run away, I am questioning your stance on whether Christians have to tithe to access God's blessings like those in Judaism do...

Let us examine how tithing was done in Israel. And I hope you have accurate answers to my questions...

I find it ridiculous that ancient Jewish customs and rites have to be practiced to access God's blessings even after the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross...

Second tithe

Unlike other offerings which were restricted to consumption within the tabernacle, the second tithe could be consumed anywhere within the Walls of Jerusalem. On years one, two, four and five of the Shemittah-cycle, God commanded the Children of Israel to take a second tithe that was to be brought to the place of the Temple (Deuteronomy 14:23). The owner of the produce was to separate and bring 1/10 of his finished produce to the Old City of Jerusalem, after separating Terumah and the first tithe, but if the family lived too far from Jerusalem, the tithe could be redeemed upon coins (Deuteronomy 14:24-25). Then, the Bible required the owner of the redeemed coins to spend the tithe "to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish" (Deuteronomy 14:26). Implicit in the commandment was an obligation to spend the coins on items meant for human consumption.

Poor man's tithe

In years three and six of the Shemittah-cycle the Israelites set aside the (second) tithe instead as the poor tithe, and it was given to the strangers, orphans, and widows.

Terumat maaser

Terumat hamaaser was given by the Levite to the Kohen, and was one-tenth of what the Levite had received of the First-tithe. It is alluded to in the Hebrew Bible under the words, "a tithe (tenth) of the tithe" (Numbers 18:26). It, too, was considered Terumah, and was eaten by priests in a state of ritual cleanness. Today, the Terumat maaser is discarded because of general uncleanness, just as the Terumah is now discarded.

Demai

Demai (Mishnaic Hebrew: דמאי) is a Halakhic term meaning "dubious," referring to agricultural produce, the owner of which was not trusted with regard to the correct separation of the tithes assigned to the Levites, although the terumah (the part designated unto priests) was believed to have been separated from such fruits. In such "dubious" cases, all that was necessary was to separate the one-tenth portion due to the priests from the First Tithe given to the Levites, being the 1/100th part of the whole. The Second Tithe is also removed (redeemed) from the fruit in such cases of doubt.

Places that require tithing
The criterion for determining what places require the tithing of produce is any place within the country that was held by the Returnees from the Babylonian exile, as defined in the "Baraita of the Boundaries" of the Land of Israel;although today the land might be held by a different entity, or else worked by non-Jews, produce grown in those places would still require the separation of tithes when they come into the hand of an Israelite or Jew.

Tithes are broken-off during the Sabbatical year (such as when the ground lies fallow), during which year, all fruits, grains and vegetables that are grown of themselves in that year are considered free and ownerless property. For example, whatever lands were held by those returning from the Babylonian exile at the time of Ezra are forbidden to be ploughed and sown by any Jew during the Seventh year, and even if gentiles were to plough such land and sow it, the produce would be forbidden unto Jews to eat. On the other hand, the extension of such lands held by the people of Israel who departed Egypt and who entered the Land of Canaan under their leader, Joshua, are forbidden to be ploughed by any Jew during the Seventh year, but if gentiles had ploughed such land and sown it, the produce is permitted to be eaten by a Jew. If on a regular week-year, fruits and grains and vegetables, if grown by an Israelite in these places, would require tithing.

Cattle tithe
An additional tithe mentioned in the Book of Leviticus (27:32-33) is the cattle tithe, which is to be sacrificed as a korban at the Temple in Jerusalem.

Ma'aser kesafim
Ma'aser kesafim is a tithe that Jews give to charity (tzedakah), something that is done on a voluntary basis, as this practice has not been regulated in Jewish codes of law.




HAVING GONE THROUGH ALL THESE...I'M STILL AT A LOSS AS TO WHERE THE CHURCH GOT IT'S DOCTRINE OF OBLIGATORY MONETARY TITHING FROM


IF GOD HAS CLEARLY INSTRUCTED WHAT SHOULD BE TITHED, WHY DISOBEY GOD TO FOLLOW THE DOCTRINES OF GREEDY MEN?

kindly find Bible text and other Rabbinic literatures this information was sourced from...

soulpeppersoup:
For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him. 20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
Gen 18:19-20 (KJV)

Your question have become ridiculous so I will stop here. If you want to learn go through my answers to your questions with open mind.

If you don't have the answers to these questions...feel free to ask them to your Pastor OR any Bible Study group that discusses the word of God based on the interpretation of the Holy Spirit and not Church traditions you were born into...

soulpeppersoup:
If it was Abraham discretion and not God's instruction, he wouldn't have passed it to Isaac. For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him. Gen 18:19 (KJV). To show it was an instruction, immediately after the tithe issue God said to him as recorded in Genesis 15:1, "After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward." Gen 15:1 (KJV). He tell him not to be afraid of the 5 kings he just fought against and that He is his inheritance.

You say you have warned against what? You need the Holy Spirit to understand the scriptures. We compare spiritual things with spiritual.

Because Christ had not come and had not become our high priest after the other of melkezedec who received the first tithe. And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. 5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. Heb 5:4-6 (KJV)

The things people over look is that Jesus has no blessing. The blessing of the kingdom was willed to Abraham. Jesus made the gentiles the sons of Abraham that they may partake of the inheritance of Abraham. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 [s]That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ;[/s] that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Gal 3:13-14 (KJV)

You no nothing about the promise. The promise of being a blessing was tied to tithe as the promise of being the father of many nations was tied to the sacrifice of Isaac. I don't expect you to understand though.

We need more clarity on your quote we bolded in red...

And why did you cancel Gal 3 v 14? If Jesus has given gentiles access to the blessings of the Kingdom, what then is the need for tithing to access these blessings?


OR ARE YOU SAYING WHAT JESUS DID IS NO SUFFICIENT ENOUGH?

Did the Gentile Christians in the early church pay tithes?
Was tithing obligatory on Hebrew Christians?

MUST CHRISTIANS PAY TITHES?

https://www.biblestandard.com/must-christians-pay-tithes.html

INQUIRIES have come in from time to time as to what the Scriptures teach on tithing. Many have asked if the Bible teaches that Christians are required to practice tithing. It seems that an increasing number of groups and individuals are teaching that Christians are obligated to tithe. The Seventh Day Adventists, the Mormons, the Worldwide Church of God (Herbert W. Armstrong's followers), Garner Ted Armstrong's followers and the Assemblies of Yahweh are some of these groups.

Teaching that tithing is obligatory upon their followers has contributed largely to making some of these groups quite wealthy. Some of these send out attractive books, magazines and other literature free, stating that tithing by their followers enables them to do this.

TITHING DEFINED

To assist the inquirers and others, we will here examine what the Scriptures say on this important subject and note where some have made unwarranted and erroneous conclusions. The English word tithe and also the Hebrew and Greek words translated tithe in the Bible mean a tenth; so tithing is the giving of a tenth of one's income, usually for religious purposes. Years ago, in many Catholic countries, tithing was bound on the people as a law; they were required to pay tithes like taxes to the priesthood. Some were required to do similarly for secular purposes. Today there are various taxes that people must pay to the governments, which amount to much more than a tenth, or tithe. In many countries some or all of the people give up a large portion of their income in taxes.

The tenth, or tithe, as the rate of offering gifts to gods as a religious duty or for paying tribute to rulers existed in ancient times in Babylon, Persia, Egypt, and even in China. According to Herodotus, the Lydians offered a tithe of their booty. The Phoenicians and the Carthaginians sent a tithe annually to the Tyrian Hercules. ------> this is for those of you who think Abraham got tithing by divine inspiration