₦airaland Forum

budaatum:
Yes I have. You however have not shown the intellectual capacity for me to discuss such things with, so I will pass. Thanks.

Back to throwing around unnecessary insults hmmm??

The Bible, Torah and even Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews mentions of a land where four rivers converge, and the video I posted corroborates it BUT certain people are having a tough time adding 1+1, and they are telling me I don't have the intellectual capacity to discuss certain matters with them...

Nice escape route sha...and that's if you have really researched and understood the Akashic records or Urantia papers like you claim to, then you shouldn't even be arguing here...

budaatum:
Yes, I am saying no ruins were found in the ocean where Plato described as where Atlantis used to be

Plato was describing what he claimed Critias had heard from his grandfather who had heard it from Solon who heard it from the Egyptians. He hadn't been there or seen it himself nor did he know where it was. Besides, he was used to making things up to make his point. And no ruins have fit the huge city Critias described. And Poseidon and his son Atlas who ruled that city, are mythical.

Please educate yourself Plato's Atlantis

I've gone through Plato's Atlantis,

Now answer these questions so we can have a common ground and extract the facts in that literature with scientific evidence;

Plato's Atlantis mentions of great deluges that occurred over a period of 9,000 years...

Have you considered that these great deluges (i.e. flooding) could be caused by melting of polar caps in the north and south poles thus causing the water levels of oceans to increase AND subsequently flood low lands and plains with their civilizations therein?

You can corroborate this by checking any documentary that demonstrates what happened when the world transited from Ice Age...

OkaiCorne:
I've gone through Plato's Atlantis,

Now answer these questions so we can have a common ground and extract the facts in that literature with scientific evidence;

Plato's Atlantis mentions of great deluges that occurred over a period of 9,000 years...

Have you considered that these great deluges (i.e. flooding) could be caused by melting of polar caps in the north and south poles thus causing the water levels of oceans to increase AND subsequently flood low lands and plains with their civilizations therein?

You can corroborate this by checking any documentary that demonstrates what happened when the world transited from Ice Age...

Plato wrote a lot of made up things! His ideas are more important than his facts!

Besides, if you use your head, you would wonder why we, who have access to way more historical information than Plato had, can't work out what happened 2000 years ago while Plato appears to know what happened 9000 years before his time!

budaatum:
Plato wrote a lot of made up things! His ideas are more important than his facts!

Besides, if you use your head, you would wonder why we, who have access to way more historical information than Plato had, can't work out what happened 2000 years ago while Plato appears to know what happened 9000 years before his time!

Going by your logic, anything that exists about 10,000 years ago is mythical since we don't have video tapes of them...

Now use your head to know that truth first exists in an unwritten form, and is handed down from generation to generation in oral form spanning thousands of years through folklore...

Now pause slowly and think again...then use scientific evidence to ponder on the possibility of the great deluge Plato wrote of in that literature of his...if you can do that, we can start talking...

budaatum:
Plato wrote a lot of made up things! His ideas are more important than his facts!

Besides, if you use your head, you would wonder why we, who have access to way more historical information than Plato had, can't work out what happened 2000 years ago while Plato appears to know what happened 9000 years before his time!

I'm baffled though, if you have truly researched on the Akashic records and or the Urantia papers, then I don't see why we should be arguing...

Even famous mystics and seers like Edgar Cayce spoke at different intervals about the existence of Atlantis in the ancient past...but well, according to your logic, these seers are also delusional...

One rule I adopt I discourse is never to attempt to do it with those who twist what I say or chose the bits they like just to prolong an argument.

Is your below what I said?

OkaiCorne:
Going by your logic, anything that exists about 10,000 years ago is mythical since we don't have video tapes of them...

Now use your head to know that truth first exists in an unwritten form, and is handed down from generation to generation in oral form spanning thousands of years through folklore...

Now pause slowly and think again...

Evidence goes way beyond video tapes! Books in fact, tend to be more reliable, unless the video is of the event as it happened. But that's not to say they are always accurate. And the fact something is orally handed down does not attest to its reliability or truthfullness. If it was, we'd be arguing that Obatala created human beings from the maize Orunmila gave him!

Research into Atlantis will take you months, and not the 55 minute video you chose to believe.

budaatum:
One rule I adopt I discourse is never to attempt to do it with those who twist what I say or chose the bits they like just to prolong an argument.

Is your below what I said?

Evidence goes way beyond video tapes! Books in fact, tend to be more reliable, unless the video is of the event as it happened. But that's not to say they are always accurate. And the fact something is orally handed down does not attest to its reliability or truthfullness. If it was, we'd be arguing that Obatala created human beings from the maize Orunmila gave him!

Research into Atlantis will take you months, and not the 55 minute video you chose to believe.

And how did you think I've watched only the 55 minutes video to conclude on the existence of Atlantis? You see the problem I'm having with your pattern of reasoning?

Have you heard of Edgar Cayce before?

Please do well to answer my questions on the great deluge Plato spoke of...and tell me if he's also making it up...

OkaiCorne:
I'm baffled though, if you have truly researched on the Akashic records and or the Urantia papers, then I don't see why we should be arguing...

We probably understand them different. However, we have not gotten there yet, and I refuse to enter into the topic if we are having this much difficulty with as simple a thing as the existence of Plato's Atlantis!

budaatum:
We probably understand them different. However, we have not gotten there yet, and I refuse to enter into the topic if we are having this much difficulty with as simple a thing as the existence of Plato's Atlantis!

There is nothing difficult, do a simple research on how Plato got the information on Atlantis.

Cheers

By the way, have you also read on the Epic of Gilgamesh? is it also fictional or are there elements of truth in it?

budaatum:
One rule I adopt I discourse is never to attempt to do it with those who twist what I say or chose the bits they like just to prolong an argument.

Is your below what I said?

Evidence goes way beyond video tapes! Books in fact, tend to be more reliable, unless the video is of the event as it happened. But that's not to say they are always accurate. And the fact something is orally handed down does not attest to its reliability or truthfullness. If it was, we'd be arguing that Obatala created human beings from the maize Orunmila gave him!

Research into Atlantis will take you months, and not the 55 minute video you chose to believe.

Per the bolded, of course..there's a possibility that the facts on ground might be corrupted over time, however...it doesn't mean there are no elements of truth in it...but there's a way to fish out the truth from lies...as truth corroborates truth...

I am sure you have worked back from answers to questions before when given a math problem...

By the way, about the names attached to the gods of ancient religion...forget about it, they were not "gods" in the real sense of it. But this is another topic of discussion for another day...

OkaiCorne:
There is nothing difficult, do a simple research on how Plato got the information on Atlantis.

Cheers

By the way, have you also read on the Epic of Gilgamesh? is it also fictional or are there elements of truth in it?

Depends what you mean by truth. For example:

Is it true that 'God' created the heaven and earth and everything else in six days? Yes!

Is it true that 'God' created the heaven and earth and everything else in six days? No!

Things could be literally untrue yet true in a mystical (or allegorical, or gnostical, or scientifical -perhaps, or kabalistic etc sense).

We are however discussing the literal physical truth of the existence of Atlantis and the location of the Garden of Eden here.

budaatum:
Depends what you mean by truth. For example:

Is it true that 'God' created the heaven and earth and everything else in six days? Yes!

Is it true that 'God' created the heaven and earth and everything else in six days? No!

Things could be literally untrue yet true in a mystical (or allegorical, or gnostical, or scientifical -perhaps, or kabalistic etc sense).

We are however discussing the literal physical truth of the existence of Atlantis and the location of the Garden of Eden here.

You can see clearly that I stated earlier on this thread...right now...I do not believe everything written in the Bible "hook, line and sinker"

Try not to put me in the religious category... I pick verifiable truths from religion and move on...

As for heaven and earth created in 6 days...you can query the author of genesis on that...not me...

OkaiCorne:
There is nothing difficult, do a simple research on how Plato got the information on Atlantis.

Cheers,

By the way, have you also read on the Epic of Gilgamesh? is it also fictional or are there elements of truth in it?

How Plato got his Atlantis is described in his Timaeus, as I posted.

budaatum:
Plato was describing what he claimed Critias had heard from his grandfather who had heard it from Solon who heard it from the Egyptians. He hadn't been there or seen it himself nor did he know where it was. Besides, he was used to making things up to make his point. And no ruins have fit the huge city Critias described. And Poseidon and his son Atlas who ruled that city, are mythical.

The Epic of Gilgamesh also contains a Garden of Eden. Except without the rivers. Have not read it though.

budaatum:
Depends what you mean by truth. For example:

Is it true that 'God' created the heaven and earth and everything else in six days? Yes!

Is it true that 'God' created the heaven and earth and everything else in six days? No!

Things could be literally untrue yet true in a mystical (or allegorical, or gnostical, or scientifical -perhaps, or kabalistic etc sense).

We are however discussing the literal physical truth of the existence of Atlantis and the location of the Garden of Eden here.

Let us move briefly to the garden of Eden...

The Bible mentioned the garden as a meeting point of four rivers...and the documentary proved that four rivers once converged at an area currently submerged in the Persian gulf...


That is something we can at least give the Bible and Torah credit for being correct...or don't you think so?

budaatum:
How Plato got his Atlantis is described in his Timaeus, as I posted.



The Epic of Gilgamesh also contains a Garden of Eden. Except without the rivers. Have not read it though.

Josephus Antiquities of the Jews also mentions of the Garden with four rivers...

As regards the Epic of Gilgamesh, unfortunately...not all the facts on ground could have been documented in there but however, it corroborates the Bible/Torah that the Garden of Eden once existed...

Three different Literatures we have mentioned now...there's no smoke without fire...

Let's ride on

You may not be "in the religious category", but you sure reason like one. There is nothing different between people who chose a single source as evidence for things whilst disregarding copious evidence to the contrary. There is more evidence (credible too) proving Atlantis and Eden are myths.

OkaiCorne:
You can see clearly that I stated earlier on this thread...right now...I do not believe everything written in the Bible "hook, line and sinker"

Try not to put me in the religious category... I pick verifiable truths from religion and move on...

As for heaven and earth created in 6 days...you can query the author of genesis on that...not me...

OkaiCorne:
That is something we can at least give the Bible and Torah credit for being correct...or don't you think so?

Yes. I think so too.

This is a question for people who think the ancient past is mythical in the absence of statues or ruins...

If a boy who lived among the uncivilized and lost tribes of the Amazon dies sometime in 1950 with no evidence of identification or history records to prove his existence....does it mean the boy never existed?

If no, how can you prove the boy once existed in the absence of written materials?

budaatum:
You may not be "in the religious category", but you sure reason like one. There is nothing different between people who chose a single source as evidence for things whilst disregarding copious evidence to the contrary. There is more evidence (credible too) proving Atlantis and Eden are myths.

And I am corroborating what I believe in with the facts and clues on ground which you are yet to sufficiently dispel.

Simple logic;
The Bible mentioned Eden as the location where four rivers converged.
Scientists have discovered the location where these four rivers converged.

Do you need Furthermaths to arrive at a simple 1+1 conclusion?

Nelson21:
Yes. I think so too.

Thank you.

When one uses the same science these guys hide under to validate certain things written in religious books, they go bonkers...

It really pays to have an open mind...

Josephus was a Jew. His source was the Torah. He therefore can't be used to prove what he read in the Torah.

There is sufficient research suggesting the Torah was made up of the myths of the surrounding people so the Garden myth might have been copied from or influenced by Gilgamesh. It has not conclusively been proven to be the case or otherwise. Read what I said about Josephus above though.

The fact that a statement is repeated in other sources does not in itself prove that the statement reflects reality.

OkaiCorne:
Josephus Antiquities of the Jews also mentions of the Garden with four rivers...

As regards the Epic of Gilgamesh, unfortunately...not all the facts on ground could have been documented in there but however, it corroborates the Bible/Torah that the Garden of Eden once existed...

Three different Literatures we have mentioned now...there's no smoke without fire...

Let's ride on

OkaiCorne:
Thank you.

When one uses the same science these guys hide under to validate certain things written in religious books, they go bonkers...

It really pays to have an open mind...

You are not using science!

By the way, did you do science at all?

OkaiCorne:
Thank you.

When one uses the same science these guys hide under to validate certain things written in religious books, they go bonkers...

It really pays to have an open mind...

I have been following and enjoying the discussion between you and budaatum. I also like the way you respond.Even though unnecessary insults were thrown at you, you responded in a civil manner. If i may ask, are you Nigerian?

Science has not found any evidence for a Garden of Eden. Science has in fact concluded that human beings first came into existence in East Africa, so unless you want to move your rivers, stop stating things you know to be untrue!

OkaiCorne:
And I am corroborating what I believe in with the facts and clues on ground which you are yet to sufficiently dispel.

Simple logic;
The Bible mentioned Eden as the location where four rivers converged.
Scientists have discovered the location where these four rivers converged.

Do you need Furthermaths to arrive at a simple 1+1 conclusion?

Scientists have not discovered anything of the sort!

budaatum:
Science has not found any evidence for a Garden of Eden. Science has in fact concluded that human beings first came into existence in East Africa, so unless you want to move your rivers, stop stating things you know to be untrue!


Scientists have not discovered anything of the sort!

I was having a conversation with dalaman before some atheists derailed the course of our discussion...

If you study the book of Genesis carefully...you'll see a lot of gaps which should indicate to you that Adam was not the first human created...

I stand to be corrected on this though...

For example, who was Cain referring to when he mentioned about other people killing him to avenge for Abel's death?

To make further sense out of our discussion, have you done some research on how planets and stars are formed?

And how old the Earth is? and how complex life eventually resulted from simpler life forms?

Nelson21:
I have been following and enjoying the discussion between you and budaatum. I also like the way you respond.Even though unnecessary insults were thrown at you, you responded in a civil manner. If i may ask, are you Nigerian?

Yes I am bro...

budaatum:
You are not using science!

By the way, did you do science at all?

Yes...but that all that ended at O Levels...had to pursue money in the finance world bro...

I still maintain a strong interest in astronomy and Universe literatures though...

budaatum:
You are not using science!

By the way, did you do science at all?

I synthesize knowledge to arrive at my conclusions...I don't limit myself to the body of science alone.

The TRUTH is not limited to science my brother...so don't limit yourself

Science can't explain everything but your intuition if carefully harnessed will always lead you to the right path...

budaatum:
Josephus was a Jew. His source was the Torah. He therefore can't be used to prove what he read in the Torah.

There is sufficient research suggesting the Torah was made up of the myths of the surrounding people so the Garden myth might have been copied from or influenced by Gilgamesh. It has not conclusively been proven to be the case or otherwise. Read what I said about Josephus above though.

The fact that a statement is repeated in other sources does not in itself prove that the statement reflects reality.

Josephus' source was not limited to the Torah alone...for example, his source on the exploits of Moses was obtained from the works of an ancient Egyptian scribe and Historian called Manetho...

Are you aware Moses was a general in army of Pharoah? And the Bible only tells the decoy to the story as to why Moses eventually left Egypt?

Are you aware that the "Pharoah who never knew Joseph" was an Assyrian invader that overthrew the Pharoah before him?

OkaiCorne:
Yes...but that all that ended at O Levels...had to pursue money in the finance world bro...

I still maintain a strong interest in astronomy and Universe literatures though...

I'd advise you to step away from the facts awhile, and read up on the scientific method itself. It will help you in judging evidence and make you more credible when you say you are being scientific. Oh, and follow vaxx, especially for when we do objectivity and subjectivity'.

OkaiCorne:
Yes...but that all that ended at O Levels...had to pursue money in the finance world bro...

I still maintain a strong interest in astronomy and Universe literatures though...

I'd advise you to step away from the facts awhile, and read up on the scientific method itself. It will help you in judging evidence and make you more credible when you say you are being scientific. Oh, and follow vaxx, especially for when we do 'objectivity and subjectivity'.

budaatum:
I'd advise you to step away from the facts awhile, and read up on the scientific method itself. It will help you in judging evidence and make you more credible when you say you are being scientific. Oh, and follow vaxx, especially for when we do 'objectivity and subjectivity'.

The conclusion of scientific method arrives at one conclusion...is this fact a truth or otherwise...

I honestly don't need to burden my mind with technical jargons on something an ordinary man should know intuitively...

Truth corroborates truth and leads to further unexplored truths... It's like a spider's web which reveals a pattern that does not contradict itself.

If you check the course of our discussion especially on the four rivers leading to Eden, I have backed it with the findings of scientists and historians...

History and Science...and not just Science alone...

I'll look up vaxx posts as you have recommended him to me...

cheers