₦airaland Forum

[quote author=analice107 post=61667059]Wait, Women Apostles? [/quote

] Yes, women apostles. Need explanations?

analice107:
Wait, Women Apostles?

Yes, ma'am

Milonis:
Yes, ma'am

Oh, i never heard of any before? I thought there were only 12 Apostles and numerous disciples?

[quote author=Milonis post=61678920][/quote]Yes pls.

analice107:
Oh, i never heard of any before? I thought there were only 12 Apostles and numerous disciples?

On the contrary, there were 12 disciples and many apostles

Milonis:
On the contrary, there were 12 disciples and many apostles

Really? Hmmmm. 12 disciples and many Apostles.

analice107:
Really? Hmmmm. 12 disciples and many Apostles.

Paul was an apostle and not a disciple.

The 12 were the ones called Disciples (even tho Peter was also referred to as Apostle much later).

You know them:

Simon Peter
James
Judas
Andrew
Levi

Etc. They were the 13 disciples as i know.

Milonis:
Paul was an apostle and not a disciple.

The 12 were the ones called Disciples (even tho Peter was also referred to as Apostle much later).

You know them:

Simon Peter
James
Judas
Andrew
Levi

Etc. They were the 13 disciples as i know.

No sir. Jesus had 12 Apostles and uncountable Disciples. we are His disciples, not Apostles.

claremont:
The subjugation and dehumanisation of the female human species started from religion. Jesus, apparently, had 12 disciples and none of them was a female. That not only stinks of discrimination, but it clearly shows how religious goons view women.

The campaign for equality of the sexex wasn't originally started by feminists, it was started by secularists and Atheists.

I might not have answered the OP's question, but I feel 'led' to make this point on this holy sunday morning.

You are wrong on this
Jesus actually had 12 apostles and over 500 disciples
Read your bible well my dear

makydebbie:
This issue of women/female pastors is a very delicate one and I want to know something once and for all....

Now I know views may differ but we all know the Bible is our absolute "as Christians."
But again in this same Bible we can find some paradoxical situations/scenarios and please before you get me wrong, by "paradoxical" I specifically refer to:

"A claim that two apparently contradictory ideas are true" or.

"An unanswerable question or difficult puzzle, particularly one which leads to a deeper truth."


I don't deal with the self-contradictory angle of paradox here.... Just wanted to be clear on that.



Now sometimes ago, I visited this church and the pastor that day preached like someone who was spoiling for a fight.... Well maybe because he was talking about women or probably it is because he was just being passionate about his preaching..... Whatever it was, that's not the issue.


The issue is what he preached about, "Women pastors and the place of women in the Kingdom of God especially in the church..."


The pastor said that any woman who is found behind the pulpit preaching as an ordained Pastor or preacher is in error and in total disobedience to God's Word and because God hates disobedience, these women will end up in hell.

Boyyy! He went on and on and even gave scriptures which I will drop here soon.

Now my mind started to wander to all the reputable women preachers I know.... From the Karthryn Kuhlmans of the past to the late Bimbo Odukoyas of the recent past and to the Arch-Bishop Margaret Idahosa, and even Pastor Paula White of the present.... Any for the future? (Time will tell)


Now, The Holy scriptures in the book of 1Corinthians chapter 14 vs 34 says, "Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak but they are to be submissive to, as the law also says."

Now we know it was the apostle Paul speaking here and he went on to add in verse 35 of same scripture, the following,

"And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church."



In verses 36, 37 and 38, Apostle Paul said strong words which makes me ask.......

But why do we still have Highly anointed women ministers being used by God to wrought miracles globally and take the gospel to many?

Why isn't God limiting their power or influence if they are to keep shut in the church? Or am I missing something?


Okay here is another scripture about this issue:

I Timothy.2v 8-15 says a lot but I will pick the key verses which is verses 11 and 12....


"Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman TO TEACH or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence"

This was Paul writing to Timothy who was pastor of the Ephesian church.

The scriptures above said that women are not allowed to teach.... But then what happened in the case of Kathryn Kuhlman?? She was mightily used of God and taught the bible in ways that influenced many Christians till this day........


Did God make an exception of her here? Or am I still missing something?


We also have seen that in the same Bible that harbors the two key scriptures above, there was a woman named Deborah.... **quite a coincidence is it?**


Deborah was judge over all Israel... She was a prophetess and a Judge meaning she was spiritual leader and Also Ruler of Israel in those days. This could also mean that she taught the people God's ways and we know in the new testament that a woman is not to teach or have authority over the man.

Why was Deborah's case different? Even Queen Esther is another example... She was kinda a leader figure to her fellow Jews in her days with Mordecai as her guardian and mentor.

She (Esther) played her role well. So well in fact that Hamann, Israel's enemy was destroyed and Israel saved from annihilation.

The stories of Deborah and Esther can be found in the books of Judges chapters 4 and 5 And Esther chapters 1 to 10.


So back to this day..... I have a question that need an answer or answers.....

In the light of everything said here and said in the Bible and seen in the Bible and in the light of the fact that we have reputable and influential Women ministers who are doing great things or who seem to be doing great things in the world today...

The issue of Female pastors in Christendom is something that is of concern and delicate with different opinion about it.

As Christians, The Bible is our constitution (permit me to use that word) and as such every Thing it says is right and must/should be practised and obeyed by us.

As a Christian, I have never seen and I'm yet to see where the Bible says that women shouldn't preach, teach in the church or pastor a church. The only passage that kind of hint at that is in 1 Timothy 2:11-13 which says;

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer [tolerate] not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve."

What the above passage is saying is that just like in the family, the man is the head of the church and the woman should be in submission to him or them. A woman shouldn't try to exercise authority over the man or try to contend for authority with him. That doesn't mean that women shouldn't preach or teach in the church or pastor a church.

When JESUS gave the great commission in Matthew 28:19-20;

" Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
"

HE wasn't only referring to HIS disciples but to Christians in general (which women are a part of). So the commandment to preach, teach and indoctrinate where also commanded to the women as well.

But what the Bible in my first quoted passage is saying is that women should be submissive to the man or men in the church because they are the head. Woman shouldn't compete for leadership positions with them except given to them.

Let's take a look at what the bible in 1Corinthians chapter 14:34-35 says;

"Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak but they are to be submissive to, as the law also says.
And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church."

Now take a look at the above Bible passage, we see the Bible saying that women should be quiet and shouldn't speak in church, does that mean that the right of speech or expression of one's thought as a woman in the church is denied? if YES, That means all Christians have sinned because women speak in church both in the biblical times and now. But of course, the answer is NO, because that passage isn't saying that, rather it saying that women should give respect and be submissive to the man as the head of the Church even as CHRIST is the head of the man and overall head of the church.

The issue of female pastors wasn't mentioned in the Bible to tell whether it is right or wrong, but what the Bible says is that the women should be in submission to the man or men and respect them as the head of the church. They shouldn't compete for leadership positions or contend for authority with the men in the church but that doesn't mean she can't be a teacher, preacher, pastor or hold a key leadership position in the church but that can only be done if;

1.) The church (which includes the men) decides to give that position to her after seeing that she has what it takes to be there or hold such position.
2.) If she is called and ordained by GOD to do it.

Besides there were lots of women in the Bible that held key positions of leadership and teachers in the bible e.g Miriam, Priscilla, Deborah etc

preciousuweh:
The issue of Female pastors in Christendom is something that is of concern and delicate with different opinion about it.

As Christians, The Bible is our constitution (permit me to use that word) and as such every Thing is says is right and must/should be practised and obeyed by us.

As a Christian, I have never seen and I'm yet to see where the Bible says that women shouldn't preach, teach in the church or pastor a church. The only passage that kind of hint at that is in 1 Timothy 2:11-13 which says;

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer [tolerate] not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve."

What the above passage is saying is that just like in the family, the man is the head of the church and the woman should be in submission to him or them. A woman shouldn't try to exercise authority over the man or try to contend for authority with him. That doesn't mean that women shouldn't preach or teach in the church or pastor a church.

When JESUS gave the great commission in Matthew 28:19-20;

" Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
"

HE wasn't only referring to HIS disciples but to Christians in general (which women are a part of). So the commandment to preach, teach and indoctrinate where also commanded to the women as well.

But what the Bible in my first quoted passage is saying is that women should be submissive to the man or men in the church because they are the head. Woman shouldn't compete for leadership positions with them except given to them.

Let's take a look at what the bible in 1Corinthians chapter 14:34-35 says;

"Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak but they are to be submissive to, as the law also says.
And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church."

Now take a look at the above Bible passage, we see the Bible saying that women should be quiet and shouldn't speak in church, does that mean that the right of speech or expression of one's thought as a woman in the church is denied? if YES, That means all Christians have seen because women speak in church both in the biblical times and now. But of course, the answer is NO, because that passage isn't saying that, rather it saying that women should give respect and be submissive to the man as the head of the Church even as CHRIST is the head of the man and overall head of the church.

The issue of female pastors wasn't mentioned in the Bible to tell whether it is right or wrong, but what the Bible says is that the women should be in submission to the man or men and respect them as the head of the church. They shouldn't compete for leadership positions or contend for authority with the men in the church but that doesn't mean she can't be a teacher, preacher, pastor or hold a key leadership position in the church but that can only be done if;

1.) The church (which includes the men) decides to give that position to her after seeing that she has what it takes to be there or hold such position.
2.) If she is called and ordained by GOD to do it.

Besides there were lots of women in the Bible that held key positions of leadership and teachers in the bible e.g Miriam, Priscilla, Deborah etc

Thanks for your input. I appreciate.

makydebbie:
Thanks for your input. I appreciate.

Just doing my job, beside the Bible says "IRON SHARPENETH IRON".

Anyway, Yoouuuurrrrrr Welcome.

makydebbie:
Thanks for your input. I appreciate.

you said in your opening post that deborah was a ruler. that's incorrect.

before you go thanking preciousuweh, who said he did not see 1tim 2:12 and even skipped it in his post.

be careful maky who you thank, a false idea is as deadly as poison. using inappropiate interpretation, one's own opinion which contradicts a statement in the bible and general message of such instruction to support the traditions of men is wrong.

am going to give you a clue: what if the term 'women' is a representation of flesh (carnality) and the term men (in the likeness of God) spirituality.

if you have any questions let me know.

jamescross:
you said in your opening post that deborah was a ruler. that's incorrect.

before you go thanking preciosuweh, who said he did not see 1tim 2:12 and even skipped it in his post.

be careful maky who you thank, a false idea is as deadly as poison. using inappropiate interpretation, one's own opinion which contradicts a statement in the bible and general message of such instruction to support the traditions of men is wrong.

am going to give you a clue: what if the term 'women' is a representation of flesh (carnality) and the term men (in the likeness of God) spirituality.

if you have any questions let me know.

What do you mean by women being carnality?

makydebbie:
What do you mean by women being carnality?

a representation based on their origin. made from flesh

Interesting thread

preciousuweh:
The issue of Female pastors in Christendom is something that is of concern and delicate with different opinion about it.

As Christians, The Bible is our constitution (permit me to use that word) and as such every Thing it says is right and must/should be practised and obeyed by us.

As a Christian, I have never seen and I'm yet to see where the Bible says that women shouldn't preach, teach in the church or pastor a church. The only passage that kind of hint at that is in 1 Timothy 2:11-13 which says;

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer [tolerate] not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve."

What the above passage is saying is that just like in the family, the man is the head of the church and the woman should be in submission to him or them. A woman shouldn't try to exercise authority over the man or try to contend for authority with him. That doesn't mean that women shouldn't preach or teach in the church or pastor a church.

When JESUS gave the great commission in Matthew 28:19-20;

" Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
"

HE wasn't only referring to HIS disciples but to Christians in general (which women are a part of). So the commandment to preach, teach and indoctrinate where also commanded to the women as well.

But what the Bible in my first quoted passage is saying is that women should be submissive to the man or men in the church because they are the head. Woman shouldn't compete for leadership positions with them except given to them.

Let's take a look at what the bible in 1Corinthians chapter 14:34-35 says;

"Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak but they are to be submissive to, as the law also says.
And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church."

Now take a look at the above Bible passage, we see the Bible saying that women should be quiet and shouldn't speak in church, does that mean that the right of speech or expression of one's thought as a woman in the church is denied? if YES, That means all Christians have sinned because women speak in church both in the biblical times and now. But of course, the answer is NO, because that passage isn't saying that, rather it saying that women should give respect and be submissive to the man as the head of the Church even as CHRIST is the head of the man and overall head of the church.

The issue of female pastors wasn't mentioned in the Bible to tell whether it is right or wrong, but what the Bible says is that the women should be in submission to the man or men and respect them as the head of the church. They shouldn't compete for leadership positions or contend for authority with the men in the church but that doesn't mean she can't be a teacher, preacher, pastor or hold a key leadership position in the church but that can only be done if;

1.) The church (which includes the men) decides to give that position to her after seeing that she has what it takes to be there or hold such position.
2.) If she is called and ordained by GOD to do it.

Besides there were lots of women in the Bible that held key positions of leadership and teachers in the bible e.g Miriam, Priscilla, Deborah etc

God bless you

Women preachers are not going to hell for mere preaching on the pulpit