₦airaland Forum

budaatum:
I will knock your head you! I should troll through TBJTv like I have not got better things to do with my time!

When you remember, please post. We can't have we unbelieving atheists continuing in our unbelief if we can help us.

Lol. If the truth must be told, I don't care if a million atheists continue in their unbelief. I am not in the business of atheist enlightenment.

Atheists always have better things to do with their time.

The mighty JESUS explained it powerfully when he told his trainee pastors that the harvest is ripe.

No honest farmer will instruct his workers to pick unripe fruit. During harvest time their are always ripe and unripe fruit on the trees.

ScienceWatch:
I don't know where I stored that link.
You can search on Emmanuel TV website or YouTube.

budaatum:
I will knock your head you!
I should troll through TBJTv like I have not got better things to do with my time!

When you remember, please post.
We can't have we unbelieving atheists continuing in our unbelief if we can help us.

And the shadeyinkas of this world will be telling budaatum:
"The boy is now healed. What's your problem?"

MuttleyLaff:
And the shadeyinkas of this world will be telling budaatum:
"The boy is now healed. What's your problem?"

If the healing took the course they claim it took, I want to refer others to get cured too. But if its a scam, I want others to be sceptical about the claims made, at the very least.

Thing is, from the video, no timeframe is known. Bone fractures do heal once set properly, which was absent in the before, and it would take a considerable number of months for the scar to heal to the extent shown. The video is however giving some people the impression the healing was instantaneous!

You know what? I tire!

budaatum:
If the healing took the course they claim it took, I want to refer others to get cured too. But if its a scam, I want others to be sceptical about the claims made, at the very least.

Thing is, from the video, no timeframe is known. Bone fractures do heal once set properly, which was absent in the before, and it would take a considerable number of months for the scar to heal to the extent shown. The video is however giving some people the impression the healing was instantaneous!

You know what? I tire!

Dont tire O, you are only five steps away from smashing into a hidden truth beyond lowly intellect.

Think...... when you as Omo Basorun go to the sun for help for your people, are the believers not rejoicing? When you walk through the town after 2am at night, are the people not delighted. People are not fools, they know that something has always manifested as a consequence.

THE SPIRIT WORLD IS FAR SUPERIOR TO INTELLIGENCE.

MuttleyLaff:
And the shadeyinkas of this world will be telling budaatum:
"The boy is now healed. What's your problem?"

It is never wise to spoonfeed a sceptic.
Shadeyinkas was correct to be brief and respond to BudaAtum with, " what is your problem."

shadeyinka:
There were two sets of videos; before and after prayer.
It wasn't the same day.

The parent came to give testimony of healings

Before the testimony the boy walked. Without a bone holding his weight that's the point I doubt the video.
And budaatum is just telling long story without facing my question.

My question remains the same. When the boy started walking witwith the broken bone instantly.
What was carrying his weight since as we can see the bone was outside

ProsperOkec:
Before the testimony the boy walked. Without a bone holding his weight that's the point I doubt the video.
And budaatum is just telling long story without facing my question.

My question remains the same. When the boy started walking witwith the broken bone instantly.
What was carrying his weight since as we can see the bone was outside

In the first picture, the boy was seated. The bone protruding out of his legs.

In the second frame of the picture, the family came for testimony. The boy was completely healed then and he was holding the fallen out broken Bone.

Watch the video again. Does it even make logical sense if you want to fool people to do it like you are insinuating.

FYI, the miracle you saw wasn't instantaneous. It happened over a few weeks.

ScienceWatch:
Lets clear any misunderstanding on this issue that is clearly bugging you. If you go through my posts you will find that I have repeatedly and strongly supported all congregations regardless, living CHURCH or no living CHURCH.
I am on the side of the innocent trusting member of all churches that come with humility and LOVE to the mighty JESUS. Most congregations don't know how to tell a FAKE pastor from a genuine pastor, even though it is clearly explained in the Holy GOSPELS.

If the promises of Jesus don't manifest in a church it is never the fault of the congregation.
THERE FAITH IS ALWAYS ENOUGH. They have answered JESUS call; Come into me all that are burdened, and I will fix it.

The problem rests squarely on the shoulders of the pastors. If they are not right with JESUS, only motivational speeches will result.

Everyone can preach. Even a conman.

I agree with you even conmen are pastors this days but let God be the judge.


Like prophet TB Joshua will say:
Every man of God has his own calling
and
Every man of God has his own level of grace

Some Pastors plant, Some water, some groom and others harvest. But as long as each is doing the work entrusted to them at the level of their grace, the church of Christ will grow.

Prophet TB Joshua believes that not all pastors are called to do deliverance. I remember the case of a pastor who got paralyzed in the cause of doing deliverance for a woman in his church, after his healing at scoan, that was the message thean of God preached.

Among men of God in the world, pastor TB Joshua seems to have a high level of grace. That doesn't mean other Pastors are not doing their assignment at the level of their grace.

I am just not for venerating any human being or any denomination else, how are we different from the Catholics who venerate Mary so highly.

Shalom

You throw off a lot of people when you begin to venerate prophet tb Joshua or the scoan by prefixing them with the title "HOLY".

By the definition of Holiness: every born again child of God qualifies (our holiness is that which is given to us by Christ)

shadeyinka:
I agree with you even conmen are pastors this days but let God be the judge.


Like prophet TB Joshua will say:
Every man of God has his own calling
and
Every man of God has his own level of grace

Some Pastors plant, Some water, some groom and others harvest. But as long as each is doing the work entrusted to them at the level of their grace, the church of Christ will grow.

Prophet TB Joshua believes that not all pastors are called to do deliverance. I remember the case of a pastor who got paralyzed in the cause of doing deliverance for a woman in his church, after his healing at scoan, that was the message thean of God preached.

Among men of God in the world, pastor TB Joshua seems to have a high level of grace. That doesn't mean other Pastors are not doing their assignment at the level of their grace.

I am just not for venerating any human being or any denomination else, how are we different from the Catholics who venerate Mary so highly.

Shalom

You throw off a lot of people when you begin to venerate prophet tb Joshua or the scoan by prefixing them with the title "HOLY".

By the definition of Holiness: every born again child of God qualifies (our holiness is that which is given to us by Christ)

Before the testimony the boy walked

ProsperOkec:
Before the testimony the boy walked

Watch the clip again.

Are you saying that after he walked, he now came to sit on a chair and prayers were made for him.

Think now!

Does it even make sense to take a healthy boy, convert him into an invalid so that you can show that prayer heals! Think now!

Note:
The Tibia was broken but the Fibula is unbroken.

Doubting Thomas!

Are you OK now?

ScienceWatch:
Dont tire O, you are only five steps away from smashing into a hidden truth beyond lowly intellect.

Think...... when you as Omo Basorun go to the sun for help for your people, are the believers not rejoicing? When you walk through the town after 2am at night, are the people not delighted. People are not fools, they know that something has always manifested as a consequence.

THE SPIRIT WORLD IS FAR SUPERIOR TO INTELLIGENCE.

Do you think "my people", the few who saw me, give a damn about my walking around town at 2am? Believe me, those who saw me at first thought, "who is this fool, daring the gods?" and even after I gave the proper responses, they came to my house in the morning to check if the spirits had whisked me away.

And if walking at 2am was all I did and then claimed, "there was light" I am sure I've trained you well enough to politely say, "hmm, buda, I no see light o", after all, you are not a fool and neither are 'my people, or did you not see light when I showed it to you? Did you not say, "it is good"?

Stop asking me to say "I see", when it is still dark. Show me light, and I too will say, "there is light, and it is good"!

ProsperOkec:
Before the testimony the boy walked. Without a bone holding his weight that's the point I doubt the video.
And budaatum is just telling long story without facing my question.

My question remains the same. When the boy started walking witwith the broken bone instantly.
What was carrying his weight since as we can see the bone was outside

I do not think you went to school to learn. How many bones are found between the knee and the ankle? From the video, how many bones were broken and how many regrew?

budaatum:
If the healing took the course they claim it took, I want to refer others to get cured too. But if its a scam, I want others to be sceptical about the claims made, at the very least.

Thing is, from the video, no timeframe is known. Bone fractures do heal once set properly, which was absent in the before, and it would take a considerable number of months for the scar to heal to the extent shown. The video is however giving some people the impression the healing was instantaneous!

You know what? I tire!

Before healing the Boy was putting on a caftan
After healing the boy was putting on a Shirt

And you claim the video gave an impression of INSTANTANEOUS healing?
Did you listen to the Mother of the boys testimony, she was using "PAST TENSES" that didn't insinuate an instantaneous occurrence

ScienceWatch:
Lets clear any misunderstanding on this issue that is clearly bugging you. If you go through my posts you will find that I have repeatedly and strongly supported all congregations regardless, living CHURCH or no living CHURCH.
I am on the side of the innocent trusting member of all churches that come with humility and LOVE to the mighty JESUS. Most congregations don't know how to tell a FAKE pastor from a genuine pastor, even though it is clearly explained in the Holy GOSPELS.

If the promises of Jesus don't manifest in a church it is never the fault of the congregation.
THERE FAITH IS ALWAYS ENOUGH. They have answered JESUS call; Come into me all that are burdened, and I will fix it.

The problem rests squarely on the shoulders of the pastors. If they are not right with JESUS, only motivational speeches will result.

Everyone can preach. Even a conman.

You are right bro. The tree is known by it fruit.

butterflylion:
I do not think you went to school to learn. How many bones are found between the knee and the ankle? From the video, how many bones were broken and how many regrew?

I don't think you went to school as well because the bone that was broken was the tibia. And the tibia is the main bone holding the weight. If u claim the fibula bone carried his weight then why did the narrator in the video said he can't put his weight whatsoever on the leg?

shadeyinka:
Watch the clip again.

Are you saying that after he walked, he now came to sit on a chair and prayers were made for him.

Think now!

Does it even make sense to take a healthy boy, convert him into an invalid so that you can show that prayer heals! Think now!

Note:
The Tibia was broken but the Fibula is unbroken.

Doubting Thomas!

Are you OK now?

Before he came for testimony he walked immediately after receiving the morning water.

But if you claim it is the fibula bone that carried him. Why didn't he walk all this time.

Let's think logically here

ProsperOkec:
Before he came for testimony he walked immediately after receiving the morning water.

But if you claim it is the fibula bone that carried him. Why didn't he walk all this time.

Let's think logically here

What do you really want?

Just say that you are confused and you don't understand how a boy can walk with only the fibular bones.(I am not sure its even possible without much pain).

Or better still say when the video was off, they took the boy for bone and marrow transplant in a specialist hospital in California

Or, say the bone held by the boy actually belongs to a goat.

Or, that a great special effect makeup artist did this just to fool people.

Since you don't believe the miraculous, it is understandable why instead of looking at available facts, all you can say is "its not possible"

Questions:
1. Does it look to you that the boys legs was a cosmetics effect by a good special effect artist?
2. If indeed the wound you saw was real, does it look like the bone was still alive (I hope you know that bone tissues die)
3. What do you think is the medical procedure for such? Bone transplant? (From where?)

The picture you posted has an inscription "Healed (Past Tense) in Jesus Name"(After the Healing)! So what's your problem?

4. If the boy could somehow walk with pain before healing and now can run well after the healing, what problem is that to you?

5. Is your best argument that the boy could still limp before healing OR that he shows no sign of limping after healing ?

The miracle wasn't designed for you to believe anything. Its even an old episode; you are not compelled to believe anything.

Miracles are not designed to convince people like you. Miracles only serve the purpose of Glorifying God.

The kingdom of God has caught up with you. You have no self excuse!

shadeyinka:
Before healing the Boy was putting on a caftan
After healing the boy was putting on a Shirt

And you claim the video gave an impression of INSTANTANEOUS healing?
Did you listen to the Mother of the boys testimony, she was using "PAST TENSES" that didn't insinuate an instantaneous occurrence

Someone got the impression from watching the video, is what I wrote. They made a comment saying so on here. And you are currently arguing that point with that individual!

budaatum:
Someone got the impression from watching the video, is what I wrote. They made a comment saying so on here.

But you know that's a wrong conjecture. Not all healings are instantaneous. Most healings are progressive.

However, the truth be said:
Something not of the ordinary happened to the boy.

Its either a sophisticated deception or a miracle.

We simple Christians see a miracle. Those who see a grand deception should prove their case intelligently and without any doubt.

So, how long after was it? Like a year maybe? Long enough for the bone to be set by a doctor perhaps, and for the wound to heal?

shadeyinka:
But you know that's a wrong conjecture. Not all healings are instantaneous. Most healings are progressive.

However, the truth be said:
Something not of the ordinary happened to the boy.

Its either a sophisticated deception or a miracle.

We simple Christians see a miracle. Those who see a grand deception should prove their case intelligently and without any doubt.

budaatum:
So, how long after was it? Like a year maybe? Long enough for the bone to be set by a doctor perhaps, and for the wound to heal?

You are so funny.
The two of us has the same text nook and exam question, yet you ask me for answers to some questions! Is that how you passed your exams in school?

I didn't make the video.
You know those who made the video (scoan)
You know their address (lagos)
The people in question are Nigerians and probably lives in Nigeria.

You can do your intelligence work and become a multimillionaire in the process.

Oh!
You are insinuating that a doctor did this: In Nigeria!? With dead bone tissues!? Even if it takes 10years (at least you can estimate from the video), this boy is not limping: the Nigerian Doctor must be incredible! He grew an almost 4 inches NEW tibia.

Ask Medical Doctors questions now!

This one is also for you. I believe you can see where doctors performed skin grafting

https://m.youtube.com/results?q=healing%20scoan&sm=3

Another


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KbSCqIlNns


For your entertainment
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=deliverance%20scoan%20man&sm=3

If you did learn at all, you might understand what a "rhetorical question" is.

I am not assuming you have information I don't have. They are question I consider in coming to my conclusion, and are questions some ask and some ignore when forming opinions about the video.

One can almost see how those questions form a dividing line between those who believe in the healing and those who don't.

For your information, I literally grew up in Igbobi Orthopaedic Hospital, Lagos, Nigeria and have seen Nigerian doctors perform 'miracles' much greater than these, given sufficient time. The video shows a simple fracture, with an untreated wound around it. Setting the bone will fix it in no time and a dressing and a dose of antibiotics would heal the wound. We are talking about a year or more though with about 2 - 4 months in a cast.

Oh, and when I call Scoan, I expect someone like you, or worst, my darling SC, to pick up the phone. The first words out of your mouths would be "Praise Jesus", except SC would add, "And the most Holy TBJ". I'd hardly expect objectivity since their daily bread depends on it.

shadeyinka:
You are so funny.
The two of us has the same text nook and exam question, yet you ask me for answers to some questions! Is that how you passed your exams in school?

I didn't make the video.
You know those who made the video (scoan)
You know their address (lagos)
The people in question are Nigerians and probably lives in Nigeria.

You can do your intelligence work and become a multimillionaire in the process.

Oh!
You are insinuating that a doctor did this: In Nigeria!? With dead bone tissues!? Even if it takes 10years (at least you can estimate from the video), this boy is not limping: the Nigerian Doctor must be incredible! He grew an almost 4 inches NEW tibia.

Ask Medical Doctors questions now!

This one is also for you. I believe you can see where doctors performed skin grafting

https://m.youtube.com/results?q=healing%20scoan&sm=3

Another


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KbSCqIlNns


For your entertainment
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=deliverance%20scoan%20man&sm=3

shadeyinka:
We simple Christians see a miracle. Those who see a grand deception should prove their case intelligently and without any doubt.

Please be aware that I have no problem with what anyone sees and how they see it.

I however have serious problems when I am asked to disregard what I see and accept what I am told to see by others. I just have way too much regard for myself you see.

budaatum:
Please be aware that I have no problem with what anyone sees and how they see it.

I however have serious problems when I am asked to disregard what I see and accept what I am told to see by others. I just have way too much regard for myself you see.

I understand.
In this world every sane and intelligent person should be skeptical about information's received. Christians were even told in the scripture NOT to believe all prophecies but to judge with respect to the written word of God.

In that respect, I respect your attitude. But such things need an indepth probing to ascertain the truth. Not just to take a position of impossibility!

budaatum:
If you did learn at all, you might understand what a "rhetorical question" is.

I am not assuming you have information I don't have. They are question I consider in coming to my conclusion, and aret questions some ask and some ignore when forming opinions about the video.

One can almost see how those questions form a dividing line between those who believe in the healing and those who don't.

For your information, I literally grew up in Igbobi Orthopaedic Hospital, Lagos, Nigeria and have seen Nigerian doctors perform 'miracles' much greater than these, given sufficient time. The video shows a simple fracture, with an untreated wound around it. Setting the bone will fix it in no time and a dressing and a dose of antibiotics would heal the wound. We are talking about a year or more though with about 2 - 4 months in a cast.

Oh, and when I call Scoan, I expect someone like you, or worst, my darling SC, to pick up the phone. The first words out of your mouths would be "Praise Jesus", except SC would add, "And the most Holy TBJ". I'd hardly expect objectivity since their daily bread depends on it.

I don't have any problem with a person being skeptical about a miracle. I am also critical and skeptical BUT, the difference is that I don't switch off completely.

I don't believe in "Chris Angel- the magician" but I am willing to give it to him that I don't understand how he does some of what he does. Are these things all tricks? Honestly I don't know but there exist a high probability that some of what he does are real.

Glad that you have some experience with bone specialists. Your 2 year estimate is a fair assessment. However, when you look at the tip of the exposed tibia, you will find out that it was dead. The only way out is to have a bone and marrow transplant (If the bone succeeded in grafting).

Why would they come to lie for what they paid 100s of thousands for. When grafts like that happen, there usually is a limp. Comparing the ages of the boy before and after does not show more than a year difference. Except the boy has a twin brother.

Miracles do happen.

A skeptics Job is to ask questions which force out the TRUTH. Some times ago one Pastor in South Africa Bushri was busted with a fake miracle. I love that! When fake MOGs are busted on camera.

The bone in question is beyond redemption by antibiotics. Ask any doctor

We know a lot of them do lie, or at least, I know. And they do so for advertising purposes. It's proven to attract members who will contribute money to the cause.

Reinhard Bonnke and Maurice Cerrulo both lost income when they were stopped from advertising claims of healings that they could not prove. BBC asked them to provide the names of 10 people they had healed on previous visits, but they refused, so BBC traced people from videos of people being healed. A woman had jumped out of the wheelchair she had been in and walked, only for it to be found that she developed multiple fractures from the effort.

I have also heard of a man who was healed 3 times of Aids by TBJ, and had stopped using his retroviral drugs as a consequence. He gave away all his property in gratitude and I got to hear about it when he died and the Catholic Church he attended had to find accommodation for his wife and two kids whom he left homeless.

shadeyinka:
I don't have any problem with a person being skeptical about a miracle. I am also critical and skeptical BUT, the difference is that I don't switch off completely.

I don't believe in "Chris Angel- the magician" but I am willing to give it to him that I don't understand how he does some of what he does. Are these things all tricks? Honestly I don't know but there exist a high probability that some of what he does are real.

Glad that you have some experience with bone specialists. Your 2 year estimate is a fair assessment. However, when you look at the tip of the exposed tibia, you will find out that it was dead. The only way out is to have a bone and marrow transplant (If the bone succeeded in grafting).

Why would they come to lie for what they paid 100s of thousands for. When grafts like that happen, there usually is a limp. Comparing the ages of the boy before and after does not show more than a year difference. Except the boy has a twin brother.

Miracles do happen.

A skeptics Job is to ask questions which force out the TRUTH. Some times ago one Pastor in South Africa Bushri was busted with a fake miracle. I love that! When fake MOGs are busted on camera.

The bone in question is beyond redemption by antibiotics. Ask any doctor

budaatum:
We know a lot of them do lie, or at least, I know. And they do so for advertising purposes. It's proven to attract members who will contribute money to the cause.

Reinhard Bonnke and Maurice Cerrulo both lost income when they were stopped from advertising claims of healings that they could not prove. BBC asked them to provide the names of 10 people they had healed on previous visits, but they refused, so BBC traced people from videos of people being healed. A woman had jumped out of the wheelchair she had been in and walked, only for it to be found that she developed multiple fractures from the effort.

I have also heard of a man who was healed 3 times of Aids by TBJ, and had stopped using his retroviral drugs as a consequence. He gave away all his property in gratitude and I got to hear about it when he died and the Catholic Church he attended had to find accommodation for his wife and two kids whom he left homeless.

I understand your concern about some examples of healings which never took place. Those kinds of examples are clogs in the wheel of progress of the Christian testimony. Unfortunately, even with the best of intentions, we get a few examples of blotched miracles many times due to
1. Impatience to verify a claim of miracle
2. Over enthusiastic urshers and protocol
3. The testifiers testifying what is not completely true (in the name of faith)
4. The craze of publicizing the ministry.

In other words premature testimony. Unfortunately, we live in a digital world. Once it is recorded as true, we don't expect to see otherwise.

The above takes place even in the most sincere and faithful ministries. It doesn't mean that miracles don't happen, it also means that some miracles are over hyped.

My beef is only against FAKE men of God. They are like counterfeit currencies being circulated among original currencies. Their presence even though is a nuisance is only possible because of the presence of the original. Its like the fact that people die daily in the hospitals does not imply that all the doctors are fake.

In the case of deliverance. Many ministers are not prepared to go the extra miles of ensuring that not one demon is left behind.When deliverance is not complete, relapse is a common result. Unfortunately, the MOG would have recorded on TV how he chased out 3 out of 4 demons. The last demon simply takes over the duteis of the other 3 demons.

Nevertheless, it is an incontrovertible fact that miracles do occur after ministrations

The Pharisees Investigate the Healing
¹²“Where is He?” they asked. “I do not know,” he answered.
¹³They brought to the Pharisees the man who had been blind.
¹⁴Now the day in which Jesus had made the clay and opened his eyes was a Sabbath.
¹⁵Therefore the Pharisees also were asking him again how he had received sight.
And he said to them,
“He put clay on my eyes,
and I washed, and I see.


¹⁸Therefore the Jews did not believe concerning him that he had been blind and had received sight, until they called the parents of him having received sight.
¹⁹And they asked them, saying,
“Is this your son,
of whom you say that he was born blind?
Then how presently does he see?”
²⁰Therefore his parents answered and said, “We know that this is our son,
and that he was born blind.
²¹But how he sees presently, we do not know; or who opened his eyes, we do not know.
Ask him. He has age. He will speak concerning himself.”
²²His parents said these things because they were afraid of the Jews.
For the Jews already had agreed together that if anyone should confess Him Christ, he would be expelled from the synagogue.
²³Because of this, his parents said,
“He has age. Ask him.”
- John 9:13-15;18-23

I am pleased, now seeing and reading you come round and beginning to reasonably engage and indulge budaatum,
instead of the earlier "what is your problem" hostile approach

You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time,
but you cannot fool all the people all the time.

Every day, is for the thief,
but one day, one day is for the Owner

shadeyinka:
Nevertheless, it is an incontrovertible fact that miracles do occur after ministrations

Just 2 years ago, I was paralysed from the waist down having caught a bug that had worked its way into my nervous system and was on the way to my brain where it would have resulted in me being brain dead. I lost 30kg and was in a wheelchair and could not move my toes when the doctors at King's Hospital asked me to. They gave me some drug that cost £750 a dose thinking I had a disease that it would cure only to find out after 3 doses that that wasn't the illness I had. I had to finish the dose however, so had 2 more while the doctors kept ministering to me.

There was a 3d picture of purple flowers on the wall in front of my bed, which since I could not move, I kept starring at. One day, the picture said, "buda, pay attention". Then it brought this massive building crane in through the window and moved my toes a tiny fraction in line with the perceived movement of the flowers in the picture. It took 4 days of this moving my toes with the crane in line with the movement of the flowers in the picture, and one day the picture said, "buda, get up and walk", and I was eventually back on my feet and skipping and dancing through the ward. Even the surgeons said, "it is a miracle". I am still amazed that they knew to put that picture on the wall - it was afteral put there with intent - and the massive building crane coming in to move my toes. A miracle indeed!

This is not particularly pertinent to my point, but one day, while I was in hospital, ma came with her friends from church. She'd come when I was admitted and on seeing me, 30kg less my normal weight and unable to walk, she burst into tears. So I sent her away asking her not to distress me, "and if you can't not do this weeping sorrow thing", I told her, "don't come back please!" Mothers, eh, and the love they have for their children. But I had enough to deal with and didn't want her distress added to it. Besides, she had brought me up well enough to deal with adversity. This was as adverse as it had ever been for me. Buda must deal with it!

Anyway, these women came intending to rain the Blood of Jesus down on my head but I wasn't having it. So when they were prepared to pray, I said, I would pray. "We are grateful for all we have", I said, "and would continue to be grateful. Amen". They too said, "amen", and left. Apparently, according to them, I had been arrogant. But my retort to them was, "Where is your faith?" And in case you wonder, not once did I think to call on God, not being that way inclined anyway.

I just knew all along that while there was life, there is hope, even if it was life in a wheelchair. This was the sort of hope I expected to find in Church going people, or what good is the Blood of Jesus if not to give hope when most needed? Yet, here were God people telling me my faith was arrogance! Its a pity that what they mistake blessed assurance based on my faith that all would be well as arrogance.

My point is, there is something we can call miraculous, and doctors, for one, do them everyday. And we, Nigerians would be better served if we could try to understand this instead of shipping our miracle working doctors to where they are better appreciated.

Incidentally, one of my doctors was a young and amazingly beautiful conscientious angelic Nigerian. Every time she came to see me in the ward, sometimes 3-4 times a day, and at night, all I could hear from her presence was, "I am going to heal this buda". And she did, peace and infinite mercy on her and hers always!

budaatum:
...

There was a 3d picture of purple flowers on the wall in front of my bed, which since I could not move, I kept starring at. One day, the picture said, "buda, pay attention". Then it brought this massive building crane in through the window and moved my toes a tiny fraction in line with the perceived movement of the flowers in the picture. It took 4 days of this moving my toes with the crane in line with the movement of the flowers in the picture, and one day the picture said, "buda, get up and walk", and I was eventually back on my feet and skipping and dancing through the ward. Even the surgeons said, "it is a miracle". I am still amazed that they knew to put that picture on the wall - it was afteral put there with intent - and the massive building crane coming in to move my toes. A miracle indeed!

What is a miracle?
A miracle is the breaking of the normal natural laws in achieving a natural occurrence. It might be a recreation, repair, timeliness, etc. This is why they are supernatural occurrences.

Yes!, miracles do happen AND from different sources such as God (by Himself, through His Angels) or through Satan (through his spirits). That's my understanding: if the above is literally true, (I may not approve of the source ) then indeed, its a miracle. Even our traditional medicine men/witch doctors sometimes performed such.

I had an impression you were an atheist and as such didn't believe in the supernaturals.

budaatum:
...

I just knew all along that while there was life, there is hope, even if it was life in a wheelchair. This was the sort of hope I expected to find in Church going people, or what good is the Blood of Jesus if not to give hope when most needed? Yet, here were God people telling me my faith was arrogance! Its a pity that what they mistake blessed assurance based on my faith that all would be well as arrogance.

My point is, there is something we can call miraculous, and doctors, for one, do them everyday. And we, Nigerians would be better served if we could try to understand this instead of shipping our miracle working doctors to where they are better appreciated.

Incidentally, one of my doctors was a young and amazingly beautiful conscientious angelic Nigerian. Every time she came to see me in the ward, sometimes 3-4 times a day, and at night, all I could hear from her presence was, "I am going to heal this buda". And she did, peace and infinite mercy on her and hers always!

Now here again, I got confused.
Its like you're saying that your " miracle healing " was because of the doctors and not through the image of the flowers as you described it. ...I'm confused.

Nevertheless, I must comment on the bolded above.

The church is like a massive hospital where the inmates are the Christians. They have different form of illnesses at different stages of healing and spiritual maladies. So, you can understand that each Christian have his/her weakness, biases, excesses etc. Till we exit this world (discharged from this hospital), it will remain so.

Its amazing that some Christians see death as evil and are afraid of it. Sometimes, emotion get over our heads and we act contrary to our faith and callin. Well, I understand that it is because we have a mixed multitude in the church( but the important thing is the fact that Christians are already in the Hospital and receiving treatment). Pls forgive us!

Does God always intervene contrary to natural events when we call Him? Certainly not. God gave men the wisdom of Therapeutic Healings through drugs and operations. Whatever man can do, God seldoms jump in because people prayed.

The purpose of Gods interventions in the affairs of man is not for miracles or the spectaculars. No! It is mainly for the salvation of mans soul (for man is eternal). Although, poverty/ lack is a good cause for spiritual intervention. eg I normally used drugs for the treatment of malaria but God had healed me before because at that time, I was in a place where drugs were not accessible (and I was needed for an assignment somewhere).

I understand your post. Miracles are over hyped and I agree with you. Pastors use the publicity it gives them for financial gain. Yes ! And it is wrong.

However, pastors failures will not stop God from reaching out to those who come to him by faith and who have the grace.

Philippians 1:15-17
Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife , and some also from goodwill :
The former preach Christ from selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my chains; but the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel. What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice.

At the end, every worker will receive his wages!

shadeyinka:
I had an impression you were an atheist and as such didn't believe in the supernaturals.

I am known to take the philosophical atheistic stance of gods (fairies, angels, ghosts, moving cranes and flowers etc) do not exist, and refer to my self as an atheist. However, that is not all that I am.

shadeyinka:
Now here again, I got confused.
Its like you're saying that your " miracle healing " was because of the doctors and not through the image of the flowers as you described it. ...I'm confused.

My miracle healing was because of "the doctors" and the crane, and "the image of the flowers", and the people who said "Amen" to my arrogant prayer, and my mothers tears, and even me, who was able to hear imaginary voices, and my desire to allow them all work on me so I could walk again.

shadeyinka:
The church is like a massive hospital where the inmates are the Christians. They have different form of illnesses at different stages of healing and spiritual maladies. So, you can understand that each Christian have his/her weakness, biases, excesses etc. Till we exit this world (discharged from this hospital), it will remain so.

"The society of human beings church is like a massive hospital where the inmates are the people Christians. They have different forms of illnesses at different stages of healing and spiritual maladies. So, you can understand that each person has Christian have his/her weakness, biases, excesses etc. Till we exit this world (discharged from this hospital), it will remain so."

And if only people understood that everyone has "different forms of illnesses at different stages of healing and spiritual maladies" and that each one of us has "his/her weakness, biases, excesses etc", perhaps we wouldn't have to die and exit this world to stop making it hell. Perhaps if we understood that we are all humans, before anything else, we could create a better world while we are alive and live eternally. Just perhaps.

budaatum:
"The society of human beings church is like a massive hospital where the inmates are the people Christians. They have different forms of illnesses at different stages of healing and spiritual maladies. So, you can understand that each person has Christian have his/her weakness, biases, excesses etc. Till we exit this world (discharged from this hospital), it will remain so."

And if only people understood that everyone has "different forms of illnesses at different stages of healing and spiritual maladies" and that each one of us has "his/her weakness, biases, excesses etc", perhaps we wouldn't have to die and exit this world to stop making it hell. Perhaps if we understood that we are all humans, before anything else, we could create a better world while we are alive and live eternally. Just perhaps.

I understand your point. However, I think Christians as part of the human species have submitted themselves to God as " helpless sinners" who need cleansing and restoration. I cannot speak for the rest of the world who don't see themselves as sick.

But I still agree verycmuch with you. If only each one of us can make the world a better place within our sphere of influence as Jesus taught (love your neighbor as your selves) this world would have been a paradise.

Unfortunately, even the children of the light are as much guilty as the world.

Well, till we die and our exam script is marked, I guess we can expect this imperfections in Christians