Buda you remind me of an old dude by the name of vooks.

Neurotika:


If you pick Reasoning,why do we then need the gods to interpret morality to us?.

We don't need gods! They are a relic used to impose authority and to control people. We use prisons instead nowadays, as well as social opprobrium.

Buda on Morality

sonofluc1fer:
Buda you remind me of an old dude by the name of vooks.

How come? Who is vooks?

jamescross:
like i said interaction breeds morality, but does that really answer the question of the source of morality

if morality means right values, and from your post i sense you support evolution has the source of our morals. evolution is about survival, creation is about purpose.

another question is why do we have right values, why do we need morals? is it because we need to respect what we depend on. if what we depend on changes so does our morals.

it's all still down to what a man believes his source is, that is where he gets it.

Like I said, the source of our values comes from the need to survive - at least empirically speaking - which we need to sustain our society.

Society is always changing - due to interactions with foreigners, advances in tech, etc - and morality follows suit. Morality then influences society in turn, causing a feedback loop.

Won't you agree that morality I'd different across different times and places? If so, then isn't that consistent with the view that humanity is the source of its own morality?

Neurotika:


I fail to see your point. I never argued that morality can be gotten in isolation. I argued reasoning.

ok my apologies. the original post you replied was talking about morality not reasoning.

budaatum:

We don't need gods! They are a relic used to impose authority and to control people. We use prisons instead nowadays, as well as social opprobrium.

Buda on Morality

Prisons are punitive elements used in ensuring punishment of moral breakdown. They are not a source of morality. It doesn't interpret to you the rightness or wrongness of an action.

CoolUsername:


Every social animal has positive actions that are rewarded and negative actions that are shunned. Lion prides, wolf packs, even lobsters (according to clinical psychologist Jordan Peterson) show display some form code.

Man is no different, hunter-gatherer societies of cavemen had a code of conduct, as society grew more complex, morality also evolved.

In summary, morality is driven by the need to survive when living in a group.

Bingo! You nailed it. The source of morality is evolution and not religion. Socual Animals evolve moral codes to enhance their changes of survival of their specie in social groups. All animals that live in large social groups must evolve certain moral codes for social stability.. Many animals have high standard of moral codes like termites, bees, elephants, hyenas, etc.

Religion on the other hand is antithetical to morality, that might not be obvious at surface level, but if you look deeper, religion justifies and some promotes all sorts of immoral anti social behaviours like killing and exploitation of others that hold different religious believes.
If you read the bible and Quoran, you will see many immoral behaviours by today's standard being justified and even promoted, ie slavery, incest, genocide, rape, etc.

Legality and morality are two different things. They are not completely mutually exclusive but they can be independent of each other. Legality is absolute while morality is subjective. Legality is about the law but ones moral view is shaped by the society, religion, culture, tradition and more. It is morally right to help your parents financially but you are legaly obligated to take care of your children. But in most African culture it is the morally right to take care of your parents.

Now lets talk psychology. Why do we do the right thing? The Freudian model of pyshe has what he called id, ego and super ego.

Id: think of the little child. The pysche do things in order to seek pleasure, this is why a kid usually put everything thing his/her mouth.

Ego: the individual do the right thing in order to get a reward or does not do wrong things to avoid punishment. For example, you do not kill someone that offends you, not because you are a good human being but because you do not want to go to executed according to capital punishment law. Another example, you are not having premarital sex because you want to go to heaven according to your religion.

Super ego: the individual do the right thing not for any reward and does not do the wrong thing in order to escape punishment. For example, an individual does choose not to kill someone that offends him, even though killing is perfectly legal in his country and he wont deal with any legal complications.


A question to the religious folks out there. If there is no hell or heaven, will you still follow the 10 commandment or the teachings of Allah?

Soliq55:


A question to the religious folks out there. If there is no hell or heaven, will you still follow the 10 commandment or the teachings of Allah?

Christians do not follow the 10 commandments as it were. We follow Jesus the embodiment of Love. The ten commandments were laws given to expose sin in man so no man was able to keep them because if you break one you break all.

Below was my response to this same question on another thread.

There are always consequences or rewards to everything whether we want them or not or whether we like them to be or not.

We do not wake up in the morning being constantly on the look out for rewards or consequences but we still get them based on the choices we make or the things we say or do.

A nice greeting would get us one back (be it expected or not)
A curse would get us either a curse back or a punch in the face (be it expected or not)

Rewards are not everything. Simply living right with God and loving right with God is everything as it would make a better, happier, more acceptable you here on earth be there an afterlife or none.

monex post=65283126]

can i murder others because I am suicidal?[/quote]


-if a person does not like to be treated a certain way but you would love to be treated in that way, don't treat the person that way but you can allow yourself to be treated that way.

butterflyl1on:






Christians do not follow the 10 commandments as it were. We follow Jesus the embodiment of Love. The ten commandments were laws given to expose sin in man so no man was able to keep them because if you break one you break all.

Below was my response to this same question on another thread.

Doesn't matter if christains follow the 10 commandments as it was written by moses. As far as christain teachings go, going against any of the 10 commandments means one is committing a sin whether e ought we are using the new or old testament as reference.

My point was that I will take a morally conscious person that his psyche is based on Super ego anyday than some dude that says he's doing good because it is in the book of Titus or something.

Neurotika:


Prisons are punitive elements used in ensuring punishment of moral breakdown. They are not a source of morality. It doesn't interpret to you the rightness or wrongness of an action.

My post on the subject though does "interpret to you the rightness or wrongness of an action", I hope.

budaatum:

How come? Who is vooks?

Vooks. Smart dude. Christian I think. Your arguments reminds me of his in terms of tone and style.

Btw, could you post the link to the chess site once again? Are you on lichess?

sonofluc1fer:

Vooks. Smart dude. Christian I think. Your arguments reminds me of his in terms of tone and style.

Btw, could you post the link to the chess site once again? Are you on lichess?

No, not on lichess.
http://m.gameknot.com/stats.pl?budat

soliq55:



Doesn't matter if christains follow the 10 commandments as it was written by moses. As far as christain teachings go, going against any of the 10 commandments means one is committing a sin whether e ought we are using the new or old testament as reference.

My point was that I will take a morally conscious person that his psyche is based on Super ego anyday than some dude that says he's doing good because it is in the book of Titus or something.

Both the ID and Super Ego are at the mercies of what was acquired as morals since child hood. Freud never said morality can be attained in isolation. In fact he proved environment to be a major determinant factor. Moral teachings is like a snow ball, it is passed down from generations and forms people's Ids and super egos. It creeps into our laws, defines some parts of our legal system. Forms our cognitive bias and sense of judgment. The religious folks even accuse their parallels of indoctrination. Same disease they are also suffering from. Sometimes you also hear things like 'even if I found out there is no God I will still be happy I did what is right'. Yet it is God's commandments that defined a large percentage of what you think is right to you in the first place. If you knew he didn't exist you would have followed a different manual. It's a deep incongruity very few admits.

budaatum:


No, not on lichess.
http://m.gameknot.com/stats.pl?budat

1719 , dats quite high Buda... Prefer Lichess tho

Source of morality is from within ourselves, A high sense OF self AWARENESS that aim to balance human nature... you can call it consciousness... A self realized person is like a bright illuminating light.... how do human become aware of himself, that is a million question beyond science and philosophy

Nuhvey:

1719 , dats quite high Buda... Prefer Lichess tho

I guess it's like we are with our gods. Once you believe in one, others don't exist. 1719 isn't that high though. It's in fact, very low in the righteousness stakes. Some are in the 2000s. You know they are entering heaven way before my 1. e4!

budaatum:

I guess it's like we are with our gods. Once you believe in one, others don't exist. 1719 isn't that high though. It's in fact, very low in the righteousness stakes. Some are in the 2000s. You know they are entering heaven way before my 1. e4!

Haha, those guys are crazy....hmm, an e4 player huh?

Nuhvey:

Haha, those guys are crazy....hmm, an e4 player huh?

Not always, but often. Especially when I am unfamiliar with opponent's game.

budaatum:

Not always, but often. Especially when I am unfamiliar with opponent's game.

Yea.... Its good if u know the line well... For unfamiliar opponents, I prefer g6 as black or d4 as white