₦airaland Forum

plainbibletruth:
1. Where do we find the blueprints for the Church - the Law of Moses, pre-law instructions or the life and epistles to the church in the New Testament?

2. God has CLEARLY revealed ALL we need to live our spiritual life under the New Covenant - 2 Peter 2:3. To want a personal revelation is to be arrogant to God.

The blue print for Christians is the bible. That we are under grace does not mean we should abolish Old Testament completely. Christians will still be judged by some of the things there.

That God has given us all things does not stop anybody from asking Him questions. Otherwise, Jesus wouldn't have said, Ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you.

How do you see and relate with God?. Do you think He's a distant creator only interested in punishing people when they wrong Him?. As a Father that He is, wouldn't He be interested to tell you something you don't understand, even if He has told you before?.

See, asking God to reveal a matter to you for proper understanding is not a sin.

Jeremiah 33:3 Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.

So why don't you do the calling and let Him show you the things He has provided, written and commanded, which you know not.

Primesky:
The people selling and bringing their procedes to the Apostles, were they all Jews?.

Do the gentile Christians serve a different God other than the one the jews serve?.

Do the gentile Christians have a different word of God than the Jewish Christians?.

Are there separate commandments and principles for the gentiles?.

We are all one in Christ Jesus. Whatever blessing the jews get, the gentiles get it through Christ Jesus. Whatever responsibility is still applicable to the jews, is applicable to the gentiles. Not laws and ordinances.

Please don't misunderstand the scriptures. That we are no longer under the law does not exempt us from responsibilities. Is stealing and killing not in the law,
so why haven't we done away with it. Will you say, because we are under grace, so we can kill and still make it to heaven?. No! But Jesus has brought grace to enable us get through. Jesus didn't do away with all the laws. He fulfilled them. Such that we don't have to do every single thing to be perfect and saved. But that doesn't mean we should live care free life without any responsibility.

I say it again, many persons will enter heaven without paying a single tithe, just like the thief on the cross, why? because they don't or didn't have the means to do that. Yet, I think some may not enter heaven based on the scriptures now because of tithing because they had the means to support the work of God with it and chose not to.The bible says that, to him that knoweth what is good and refuses to do it, to him it's sin. If so then, can such go to heaven?.

But if you seem confused about this whole matter, I suggest you go to God and ask Him. Will He refuse you?. Isn't He interested in our victory and eternal success?. How hard is it?. Don't take my word for it for I am also a man, and I don't know it all. So better you ask God to teach you his will. At least, I have heard very senior pastors, who declared how shocked they were when God spoke to them about tithing, contrary to what they believed and held on to.

Now, is that God not able to show same to you or are you a bastard?. Go to your Father and say, please teach me this matter. Why do we fight and argue about it. Why should you take what I say as the truth, when you yourself have the Spirit of truth in you?.

It's a simple question, did gentiles give tithes? yes or no

Primesky:
The blue print for Christians is the bible. That we are under grace does not mean we should abolish Old Testament completely. Christians will still be judged by some of the things there.

That God has given us all things does not stop anybody from asking Him questions. Otherwise, Jesus wouldn't have said, Ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you.

How do you see and relate with God?. Do you think He's a distant creator only interested in punishing people when they wrong Him?. As a Father that He is, wouldn't He be interested to tell you something you don't understand, even if He has told you before?.

See, asking God to reveal a matter to you for proper understanding is not a sin.

Jeremiah 33:3 Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.

So why don't you do the calling and let Him show you the things He has provided, written and commanded, which you know not.

1. Remember the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16? The rich man asked Abraham to give his brethren a “fresh revelation” as it were, by sending Lazarus to meet with them. What was Abraham’s response?

“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets, let them listen to them.’ On the rich man’s insistence Abraham went further to say: “If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead”

Where you have clarity in the Scripture but still want to go to God for him to “speak” to you then you may be seeking something else.
If the Bible says “Salvation is found in no one else” (Acts 4:12) but Jesus Christ and as a Christian you see this in scripture but you still choose to go to God and ask “O God can those who believe in bla,bla,bla, not be saved. Please show me?” would that not be ridiculous to say the least?

2. Do we have records of the church life for decades in the Bible? Yes! In all the records about the church covering several years is there ANYTHING that remotely points to the Christian being tied to a FIXED PERCENTAGE for giving? No! So, where did today’s Christian who majors on tithing get it from?

3. The Apostles where responsible for guiding the church into what was “mystery”, unknown to previous generations of believers. When instead of seeking understanding of this new life in Christ which was not prescribed before the Church Age, the believer now seeks to go BACK to the old, the book of Hebrews stands to CONDEMN him.

Yes, the whole Bible is for the Christian BUT not all that is in the Bible is for the Christian to follow as a blueprint for his spiritual life. For example, a significant part of Israel’s worship was TIED TO the Temple but the Church today is not tied to any physical structure. Where do we get this understanding from? From pre-law or in the Law? No! we get it from the New Testament epistles!
When the Christian does not understand that the Church is DIFFERENT from every other system God instituted in the past then he still has a long way to go in his spiritual life.

4. No SINGLE directive in the New Testament, NONE of the Apostles and not even Christ prescribed tithing for the Christian.

plainbibletruth:
1. Remember the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16? The rich man asked Abraham to give his brethren a “fresh revelation” as it were, by sending Lazarus to meet with them. What was Abraham’s response?

“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets, let them listen to them.’ On the rich man’s insistence Abraham went further to say: “If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead”

Where you have clarity in the Scripture but still want to go to God for him to “speak” to you then you may be seeking something else.
If the Bible says “Salvation is found in no one else” (Acts 4:12) but Jesus Christ and as a Christian you see this in scripture but you still choose to go to God and ask “O God can those who believe in bla,bla,bla, not be saved. Please show me?” would that not be ridiculous to say the least?

2. Do we have records of the church life for decades in the Bible? Yes! In all the records about the church covering several years is there ANYTHING that remotely points to the Christian being tied to a FIXED PERCENTAGE for giving? No! So, where did today’s Christian who majors on tithing get it from?

3. The Apostles where responsible for guiding the church into what was “mystery”, unknown to previous generations of believers. When instead of seeking understanding of this new life in Christ which was not prescribed before the Church Age, the believer now seeks to go BACK to the old, the book of Hebrews stands to CONDEMN him.

Yes, the whole Bible is for the Christian BUT not all that is in the Bible is for the Christian to follow as a blueprint for his spiritual life. For example, a significant part of Israel’s worship was TIED TO the Temple but the Church today is not tied to any physical structure. Where do we get this understanding from? From pre-law or in the Law? No! we get it from the New Testament epistles!
When the Christian does not understand that the Church is DIFFERENT from every other system God instituted in the past then he still has a long way to go in his spiritual life.

4. No SINGLE directive in the New Testament, NONE of the Apostles and not even Christ prescribed tithing for the Christian.

Did the bible ask you to pray to Father Abraham? So,
how do you expect him to grant such request? Is he God? Can you pray to an angel and expect him to act? even if you deserve the request, he can't grant it. Let me even tell you in case you don't know that God has granted that request so many times by allowing some people to come back from the dead to warn people about the dangers of hell, some of the points these people talk about is tithing!. But I won't just accept it because someone from the dead said so, I will ask my father in heaven. How difficult is that?. Well, I don't know about you, but I have a sweet relationship with God my Father. I ask Him questions and He tells me. If you will not, that's up to you, but know that if you fail, it's your fault. You can't argue the bible with the devil, he will floor you! He is wiser and smarter than you, that's why God gave us His Spirit to guide us into all truth. So, if any of His children is having an issue understanding a mystery, He is willing to put them through. But how will He, if you don't ask?. It means you can handle it. The devil knows the bible more than you and he can trick you with it, and you won't know, because he will quote very correct verses but with deceptions underneath.

Didn't Jesus ask us to ask the Father in His name and we shall receive. As a matter of fact, He said, whatsoever you ask the Father in my name, He will give it to you. I don't know how you read and interpret the bible. Can't I ask my Father question if I don't understand an instruction?. What is this argument?

You and I cannot pinpoint an exact verse setting aside tithing or encouraging tithing in the new Testament. Now we're confused. Isn't it wise to ask our Father for clarification?. What are you really saying, that we cannot ask God to help us in this?. No!, I strongly disagree!

Primesky:
Did the bible ask you to pray to Father Abraham? So,
how do you expect him to grant such request? Is he God? Can you pray to an angel and expect him to act? even if you deserve the request, he can't grant it. Let me even tell you in case you don't know that God has granted that request so many times by allowing some people to come back from the dead to warn people about the dangers of hell, some of the points these people talk about is tithing!. But I won't just accept it because someone from the dead said so, I will ask my father in heaven. How difficult is that?. Well, I don't know about you, but I have a sweet relationship with God my Father. I ask Him questions and He tells me. If you will not, that's up to you, but know that if you fail, it's your fault. You can't argue the bible with the devil, he will floor you! He is wiser and smarter than you, that's why God gave us His Spirit to guide us into all truth. So, if any of His children is having an issue understanding a mystery, He is willing to put them through. But how will He, if you don't ask?. It means you can handle it. The devil knows the bible more than you and he can trick you with it, and you won't know, because he will quote very correct verses but with deceptions underneath.

Didn't Jesus ask us to ask the Father in His name and we shall receive. As a matter of fact, He said, whatsoever you ask the Father in my name, He will give it to you. I don't know how you read and interpret the bible. Can't I ask my Father question if I don't understand an instruction?. What is this argument?

You and I cannot pinpoint an exact verse setting aside tithing or encouraging tithing in the new Testament. Now we're confused. Isn't it wise to ask our Father for clarification?. What are you really saying, that we cannot ask God to help us in this?. No!, I strongly disagree!

Was it recorded in the old or new testament that gentiles tithed?

And by gentiles, I meant people of non-Jewish descent... foreigners...

Primesky:
You and I cannot pinpoint an exact verse setting aside tithing or encouraging tithing in the new Testament. Now we're confused. Isn't it wise to ask our Father for clarification?. What are you really saying, that we cannot ask God to help us in this?. No!, I strongly disagree!

You may be confused but I'm not.
I know I belong to the Church Age.
I know where to go when looking for DOCTRINES relating to how to live my spiritual life in the Church Age.
I can see how Pioneers of the Church Age lived their Christian lives. So, I don't have to re-invent the wheel.
I can USE "line upon line, precept upon precept" in the New Testament to pinpoint exactly the setting aside of tithing for the New Testament believer. So, I'm not confused.

God has provided clarification for me. Help has been given by God through the teachings of the Apostles. To disregard all these and still want to ask God for help will be tantamount to ARROGANCE.

It is when the distinction between the Church and other dispensation is BLURRED that the Christian is made to get into all kinds of gimmicks totally unrelated to his spiritual life.

The Church is DIFFERENT from anything that existed before it.
The Church is NOT OBLIGATED to TITHE.

Primesky:
Oh brother! why not give the complete passage? Let me help you.

Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

The scripture you quoted did not clearly set aside tithing my friend all I see you doing is postulating and asumming by head knowledge, and that is not good.

Was tithing truly a law of Moses?. Because it exited before Moses and God reiterated it in Malachi. 3:10. Also, how did Abraham get to know about tithing?. And who taught him because it was not categorically stated in the bible?. So how did he (Abraham) get to know such a spiritual exercise that was later made a part of the Jewish law and later reinforced by God himself?.

If you go back to my previous post, you will see clearly what I said about tithing.

I want to ask you, just as you cannot categorically say who taught Abraham what tithing is or how to do it because it not stated so in the bible. Or do you know?. So, you cannot categorically say it was set aside. That passage you put up there in no reason enough. You can't bring a blanket passage and say this is it.

Apostle Paul had the right to demand physical needs from the gentiles, but he chose not to. That's not to say he set aside tithing. Now we can say OK, apostle Paul decided not to take anything even though according to him, he has the right to. What will you say about the other apostles? Did they also turn it down?. What apostle Paul did, asumming he was talking about tithe, is in fact totally different from what you're saying, supporting and doing. You're not a priest or are you? So why do you tell people not to pay tithe when their priest has not said so?.

Now, let's look at the scriptures again!.

2 Corinthians 8:12 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.

8:13 For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:

8:14 But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:

8:15 As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.

8:16 But thanks be to God, which put the same earnest care into the heart of Titus for you.

Do you see that there was a general contribution made here for the benefit of the gospel and the brethren, which was encouraged by Paul the apostle?. What these people gave was beyond tithes in the first place. (Acts 5:1 - 5)

When the church sends a missionary to some other place as the Lord directs, where do you think they get the money from?. The apostles were in charge of the welfare of everybody and the spread of the gospel. Until it became too burdensome that they had to delegate men to manage it, isn't it how Stephen came about?. What were the early Christians sharing that brought about conflict among their windows in the first place?. Were did the materials and money come from?. Is that not in agreement with the purpose of God for tithing, which is that there may be meat in my house?. What else are you people searching for about tithing?. Will you talk about tithing when, willingly, the early Christians sold their possessions and brought all the procedes to the church! What will anybody tithe from there?. What happened to Ananias and Sappirah? Can you give the way the early church gave, 100%?. What God is asking from us is just 10% minimum of our procedes and income so that His work can continue, offering is voluntary, and yet we are complaining!. The problem is the priest in charge now, not the principle!

Again, I will say, since both proponents and opponents of this tithe issue base their claims on the scriptures, what will happen to that soul that refuses to pay it after death, and he/she stands before God only to hear God say, hey son, the tithe commandment still stands?. I say, what becomes of that soul, because God calls them thieves and robbers in Mal. 3. Will they still enter heaven?. Note, no body will be justified or enter heaven because of tithing, only faith in Jesus Christ will. But it's possible to go to hell if you have the means to give and yet, refuse to give it. If you then believe in Jesus Christ, wouldn't you keep His commandments, which includes tithing?. That's if you accept the Old Testament contains the words of Jesus. Jesus was the one who called some laws of the Old Testament, laws of Moses, but not all the laws were Moses laws. Some were God's principles. Some of the Moses laws have been set aside but not God's principles. Note the difference!.

Let's ask God to reveal the matter to us personally and not to make general blanket assumption. It could be deadly!.

Why are you obtuse?

The Urim and Thummin were used by Levites to divine.- Exodus 28:30, 1 Samuel 28:6,Ezra 2:63,
Setting aside the Leviticus priesthood effectively set aside urim and thummin. You don’t have any scripture to the effect that these were set aside but you can use your God given brain to know all elements of the Levitical Priesthood were set aside together with it.

Tithing was one of the elements of the Levitical Priesthood.

You keep demanding for a scripture that set it aside because you know there’s none,and you use thst to imagine tithing is still in place. So does your pasta(sic) employ urim and thummin to divine?

The tithing brigade are very fond of straw men arguments because they know there is nothing in the scripture backing tithing. It is a diversionary tactic

They imagine that anyone opposing tithing is opposed to ministerial support. Nope. While there are those who believe that ministers should fend for themselves, most have read 1 Cor 9 and they know that ministers have a right to be supported (tho Paul forfeited these rights). But that support is by free will giving and not tithing

Primesky:
The blue print for Christians is the bible. That we are under grace does not mean we should abolish Old Testament completely. Christians will still be judged by some of the things there.

That God has given us all things does not stop anybody from asking Him questions. Otherwise, Jesus wouldn't have said, Ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you.

How do you see and relate with God?. Do you think He's a distant creator only interested in punishing people when they wrong Him?. As a Father that He is, wouldn't He be interested to tell you something you don't understand, even if He has told you before?.

See, asking God to reveal a matter to you for proper understanding is not a sin.

Jeremiah 33:3 Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.

So why don't you do the calling and let Him show you the things He has provided, written and commanded, which you know not.

You are rude
You are assuming that those holding contrary views to yourself are ignorant or haven’t called unto God.
Since you have already called u to God yourself, why can’t you educate us,FROM SCRIPTURES, what you have learnt?

Seems you called unto God and he overfed you with ignorance because that’s all you are spewing while regurgitating the same old disproved arguments

M0ron:
You are rude
You are assuming that those holding contrary views to yourself are ignorant or haven’t called unto God.
Since you have already called u to God yourself, why can’t you educate us,FROM SCRIPTURES, what you have learnt?

Seems you called unto God and he overfed you with ignorance because that’s all you are spewing while regurgitating the same old disproved arguments

If defending my faith against external aggression and correcting erroneous believe about my faith is rudeness to you, sorry sir, I have no other option.

You can't come here to twist the scriptures and expect me to fold my hands and watch you do that, what for?.

When a lie is repeatedly told and goes unchecked or unchallenged, it becomes truth, albeit false truth.

But if you are looking for a rude person, I suggest you look at the mirror because your post is replete with insults which to me reflects the state of the inner man and heart.

Jesus Christ is the way.

M0ron:
Why are you obtuse?

The Urim and Thummin were used by Levites to divine.- Exodus 28:30, 1 Samuel 28:6,Ezra 2:63,
Setting aside the Leviticus priesthood effectively set aside urim and thummin. You don’t have any scripture to the effect that these were set aside but you can use your God given brain to know all elements of the Levitical Priesthood were set aside together with it.

Tithing was one of the elements of the Levitical Priesthood.

You keep demanding for a scripture that set it aside because you know there’s none,and you use thst to imagine tithing is still in place. So does your pasta(sic) employ urim and thummin to divine?

The tithing brigade are very fond of straw men arguments because they know there is nothing in the scripture backing tithing. It is a diversionary tactic

They imagine that anyone opposing tithing is opposed to ministerial support. Nope. While there are those who believe that ministers should fend for themselves, most have read 1 Cor 9 and they know that ministers have a right to be supported (tho Paul forfeited these rights). But that support is by free will giving and not tithing

If there's no scripture setting tithing aside just as you've said how sure then are you it was truly set aside, head knowledge or assumptions?. What error have I committed now by my suggestion, tell me?. That given the above premise, I suggested that rather than jump into conclusion, we go to God in prayer to seek His guidance, is that a crime or is there something else underneath?.

The Christian race is by personal conviction. The mysteries of God are revealed to us individually by God in the way He chooses, but non goes contrary to His written word. Will it be bad to seek clarification from Him?. I see no bases for arguments here.

Bye.

Primesky:
If there's no scripture setting tithing aside just as you've said how sure then are you it was truly set aside,

stop there, Hebrews 7:1-19 set it aside,only that ur con men will never want u to know it

Primesky:
If there's no scripture setting tithing aside just as you've said how sure then are you it was truly set aside,

stop there, Hebrews 7:1-19 set it aside,only that ur con men will never want u to know it

Goodness4525:
Hebrews 7:1-19
And this Melchizedek king of Salem , who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the Kings,and blessed him,and Abraham gave tenth of the spoils of war.
verse5:Now the law requires the tribe of Levi who becomes priest to collect the tenth from the people,

verse11 .:Now if perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood there would have been no need for a different priesthood,one in the order of Melchizedek and not in the order of Aaron

Verse 12: for when the priesthood is changed,the law also must change,

verse 18: The former regulations is set aside because of its weaknesses and unprofitableness

Verse 19:For the law made nothing perfection

Primesky:
If there's no scripture setting tithing aside just as you've said how sure then are you it was truly set aside,

stop there, Hebrews 7:1-19 set it aside,only that ur con men will never want u to know it

A LOOK AT A PREVIOUS POST

1.Understanding Scripture involves looking into it ‘line upon line’, ‘precept upon precept’ (Isaiah 28:10).

2.Therefore, in many instances, picking a single verse or a portion of a verse to build doctrine on can lead to a faulty theology.

3.The issue of tithing today basically is whether the NT believer is still under a previous requirement that was put in place by God before the Law or even that under the Mosaic Law.

4.When God brought in the Mosaic Law, that Law became what was operational. It became the manual which God now expected ANYONE who believes in him to follow.

5.If anyone DECIDED that he was going to follow the system (i.e. God’s system) for a previous time before the Law was put in place, the mere fact that it was God’s system would not make it right for him to do so.
For example: Before the priesthood of the Levites, God had other kinds of priesthood in place. But when God put in place the Levitical priesthood, no one, NOT EVEN KINGS, had the right to decide to do what they wanted. Why? The LAW had changed!
Where kings chose to go against God’s new order they were disciplined! Scripture is there for all to see this.

6.When anything in the ‘old’ is still included in the ‘new’ then it is still VALID for those under the new.

7.When anything in the ‘old is set aside in the ‘new’ then it is INVALID under the new.

8.When the church was put in place, it became God’s new system for anyone who believes in him. IT REPLACED THE MOSAIC LAW!

9.When the early Christians faced the DILEMMA concerning whether Christians were still to follow the Mosaic Law (which had itself REPLACED everything before it) the HOLY SPIRIT ruled that they were not. (Acts 15).

10.In fact, one of the things mentioned by Apostle Peter was “Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?” (Acts 15:10).

11.The Christian was not to be under any “YOKE”. No more ’forced’ system.

12.The Christian is a ‘new creation’. The Christian is ‘IN CHRIST’. The Christian belong to a ‘better covenant’ based on ‘better promises’. No putting of ‘New Wine’ into old ‘wineskin’.

13.Church-age doctrines or teachings were NOT KNOWN to those of the past. They belong to the ‘many more’ things that Jesus said he would, through the Holy Spirit, teach the Apostles.

14.Therefore, whatever the Apostles now gave as ‘Law’ became what was now binding on the Christian. Whatever they say became binding. Whatever they say the Christian was freed from or loosed from became so.

15.When the Christian was ‘loosed’ from the Mosaic Law as per Acts 15, the Christian was freed from any obligation to go by the Law.

16.Any ‘new’ Law, which may include things from the ‘old’ is now what becomes binding on the Christian. The sovereignty of God determines
what in the ‘old’ is still needed under the ‘new’.

17.From all these, what we can take away is that it is ONLY what the Apostles, by the Holy Spirit, gave as the GIVING SYSTEM for the church that stands. Any other thing is a DEVIATION from the norm.

18.Christians gave money in Acts 4: 32-37. No tithing was mentioned. Rather it was by free choice.
Peter reinforced the fact that the believer’s possession and money was his to do with as he pleased in Acts 5:4.
When a need AROSE IN Acts 6 there was no mention of tithe.
When the issue of a prediction of famine came up in Acts 11 there was no mention of tithe.
When in Acts 20: 27 Paul said he declared the whole will or counsel of God to the Ephesians elders it did NOT include tithing even though he mentioned how he financed his ministry and talked about giving and receiving.
In Romans 15 when the issue of giving was mentioned as it affected Jew-Gentile believers no tithing was mentioned.
In 1 Corinthians 16, when Paul talked about “the collection for God’s people” NOTHING about tithing was in his instructions about how the money was TO BE RAISED.
No tithing was mentioned by Paul when it came to the issue of GIVING in 2 Corinthians 9. The emphasis as had been from Peter’s encounter with Ananias and Sapphira was “not reluctantly or under compulsion”.
In Galatians 6:9 where Paul talked about doing good and reaping a harvest, NOTHING about tithing is mentioned.
In Philippians Paul talks about “the matter of giving and receiving” and NO tithe was mentioned.

19.On and on in Paul’s admonitions about money, wealth, giving and receiving NOT ONCE was tithe mentioned.
Those who had were encouraged to be “generous and willing to share” (1 Timothy 6:18). He says that in that way they will “lay up treasures for themselves …. (in) the coming age” (1 Timothy 6:19).
How come Paul did not quickly put in TITHES here as a means to eternal treasures?

20.The writer of Hebrews admonished sharing with others but did not include TITHES. (Hebrews 13:16).

21.James talks about the rich and the poor. He talks about matching FAITH with WORKS. No tithe was mentioned.

22.Did ALL these Apostles miss out something? Did they fail us in omitting something so ‘life changing’, ‘eternal principle’, ‘principle of faith’, ‘open heaven’, etc, etc.?

23.The plain truth is ‘NO, they did not’. They gave us the whole counsel of God regarding the spiritual life for the believer of the Church-age.

24.God established the NEW COVENANT IN CHRIST. He sovereignly determined the things from the ‘old’ (both pre-law or under the Law) to include. What he didn’t put in the ‘new’ were EXCLUDED or became SECONDARY. What God deemed fit to include in the ‘New’, the Apostles CLEARLY communicated to us. We need not be ‘gnostics’ or ‘esoteric’ to understand or figure out these things.

25.The conclusion is simple:
TITHING IS NO WHERE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT!

Primesky:
If there's no scripture setting tithing aside just as you've said how sure then are you it was truly set aside, head knowledge or assumptions?. What error have I committed now by my suggestion, tell me?. That given the above premise, I suggested that rather than jump into conclusion, we go to God in prayer to seek His guidance, is that a crime or is there something else underneath?.

The Christian race is by personal conviction. The mysteries of God are revealed to us individually by God in the way He chooses, but non goes contrary to His written word. Will it be bad to seek clarification from Him?. I see no bases for arguments here.

Bye.

It was set aside because it was created to support a system that was set aside.

How more obtuse can you get

I asked you a question. Does your Pastor divine using Urim and Thummin?

And no, Christianity is not about ‘personal convicirons’ . Our faith must be objectively demonstrated from the scriptures as opposed to ‘private revelarions’. Your attitude of ‘personal convictions’ is precisely the reason why cults flourish. Because anyone can claim anything and claim it was personally revealed to them so they are not supposed to prove it.

Your beliefs,i repeat ,must be firmly founded in scriptures. Had Paul taught private revelations totally outside scriptures then the Bereans would have called him out.

You and your tithing brigade have no shred of evidence that supports tithing yet you defend it with every fiber of your being. You are a disgrace to the cross

Primesky:
If defending my faith against external aggression and correcting erroneous believe about my faith is rudeness to you, sorry sir, I have no other option.

You can't come here to twist the scriptures and expect me to fold my hands and watch you do that, what for?.

When a lie is repeatedly told and goes unchecked or unchallenged, it becomes truth, albeit false truth.

But if you are looking for a rude person, I suggest you look at the mirror because your post is replete with insults which to me reflects the state of the inner man and heart.

Jesus Christ is the way.

You are not defending your faith but your stupidity by ad hominem. That being a plain idiot

If you are spirit filled, then like Stephen you would argue your case and no man would withstand you. Sadly you are not and are running on empty fumes hence you are furious insulting all those who require an answer of the faith in you.

Take time and study scriptures

M0ron:
You are not defending your faith but your stupidity by ad hominem. That being a plain idiot

If you are spirit filled, then like Stephen you would argue your case and no man would withstand you. Sadly you are not and are running on empty fumes hence you are furious insulting all those who require an answer of the faith in you.

Take time and study scriptures

You can't tempt me, OK?. You can curse as much as you like and make fun as much as you like, but you can't dent my skin.

Get rid of that poison within before it destroys you. The blood of Jesus Christ will do it for you.

Primesky:
You can't tempt me, OK?. You can curse as much as you like and make fun as much as you like, but you can't dent my skin.

Get rid of that poison within before it destroys you. The blood of Jesus Christ will do it for you.

It is obtuse to fail to grasp a simple concept.

Levitical Priesthood was discarded
Tithing was part of levitical priesthood as was Urim and Thummin
All these and other elements went out or were abrogated with it

How or on what basis do you dispense with one element and not the other?

Primesky:
God is a Father to all true believers, there's actually no room for this arguments, what has God told you?. Can you actually go to God and say, Lord please, I don't understand what your word says about this and that, have you done that first, or are you just postulating?. What is the Holy Spirit given to us for, is it not to lead us into all truth?. Mere quoting of the scriptures won't do, afterall, no body without the Holy Spirit can quote the bible better than Satan himself. Should I be wowed simply because somebody quote this and that?. Of cause not!

The bible says, they that be lead by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. So, let the Holy Spirit lead us.

Going through the thread and seeing your position on such a sensitive topic, I thought you were only being illogical. But with this post of yours, I can categorically say that u're just a sanctimonious and irredeemable idiot. How can you neglect scriptural quotations? And then surmise that Satan knows the bible better? Foolish talk! When Satan showed this trait, did Jesus not counter him with the scriptures? Why not ask the Holy Spirit to show you the scriptures to counter instead of giving us conjectures? If the "Holy Spirit" is yet to enlighten you on this matter, simply keep quiet and wait for instruction.

connectikut89:
Going through the thread and seeing your position on such a sensitive topic, I thought you were only being illogical. But with this post of yours, I can categorically say that u're just a sanctimonious and irredeemable idiot. How can you neglect scriptural quotations? And then surmise that Satan knows the bible better? Foolish talk! When Satan showed this trait, did Jesus not counter him with the scriptures? Why not ask the Holy Spirit to show you the scriptures to counter instead of giving us conjectures? If the "Holy Spirit" is yet to enlighten you on this matter, simply keep quiet and wait for instruction.

Primesky is a total idiot. On what basis are we supposed to judge doctrine other than scriptures?

He repeats one argument that nowhere are we told to stop tithing so we must continue. I asked him how come his pastor never uses urim and Thummin and he was tongue tied. He has deficiencies in logic because he has been taught to defend tithing on this basis and nothing else. When he meets other arguments he loses his mind

But he is one of those idle college pupils who have just discovered Nairaland so let’s forgive him

M0ron:
Primesky is a total idiot. On what basis are we supposed to judge doctrine other than scriptures?

He repeats one argument that nowhere are we told to stop tithing so we must continue. I asked him how come his pastor never uses urim and Thummin and he was tongue tied. He has deficiencies in logic because he has been taught to defend tithing on this basis and nothing else. When he meets other arguments he loses his mind

But he is one of those idle college pupils who have just discovered Nairaland so let’s forgive him

Hahaha... How does it feel?. It seems you can't do without cursing and you're the one fit to defend the scriptures?. What a confusion. Again I advise you to seek Jesus now, He alone can remove that poison from you.

Please, stop misinterpreting my position. It's either you didn't read what I said clearly or you're just bent on causing confusion. No where did I say we must continue. My point has always been that since we(God's children) cannot all agree concerning the position of the scriptures and of God regarding tithing, it is wise for us to personally seek the help of God. If that is a crime, I have no apologies!

You claiming to defend it, have not ceased in cursing abusing and misquoting. It seems you have a different agenda. I won't indulge you.

By their fruits, we shall know them!. I forgive you

connectikut89:
Going through the thread and seeing your position on such a sensitive topic, I thought you were only being illogical. But with this post of yours, I can categorically say that u're just a sanctimonious and irredeemable idiot. How can you neglect scriptural quotations? And then surmise that Satan knows the bible better? Foolish talk! When Satan showed this trait, did Jesus not counter him with the scriptures? Why not ask the Holy Spirit to show you the scriptures to counter instead of giving us conjectures? If the "Holy Spirit" is yet to enlighten you on this matter, simply keep quiet and wait for instruction.

Good!, so can you counter Satan without the Holy Spirit. You seem not to get my position here. If you depend on head knowledge of the scriptures to defend yourself on the level of arguments, the devil will floor you!. I maintain that position. However, if we depend on the spirit of God to guide us using the same scriptures, we can stand our ground and be right. Anybody can quote the correct scripture but deceptively. That's the devil's trick and many are victims of this, after all is in the bible they say. Wrong!

Note, I am not saying that tithe is a requirement for salvation, no!. That has never been my position. If you think the Holy Spirit has enlightened you, then do what he says. Now shouldn't others get the same enlightenment as you by asking Him?.

We have many Christians today for and against tithing. All pointing to the scriptures, with many claiming personal revelations. Is it bad to ask God about the matter rather claiming to know it all?. Even the apostles we're quoting says, we know in part and understand in part. What is wrong in asking God to explain matters to you?. If I take your position now and it turns out wrong in the end, do I have any excuse?. Do I blame you, even if I do,it won't change a thing because I never made use of God's help. Can't we Christians relate with our personal saviour Jesus Christ on a personal level?.

The devil will always claim scriptures. But scriptures without the Holy Spirit to guide you could be confusing because the bible is not just an ordinary book, it's spiritual and requires the Spirit of God to give you discernment. Please, do well to understand before criticising. You mustn't accept my position neither do I. The final arbiter here is God. That's my position.

With what you said up there, I don't think you represent God either. Who are you to say who's redeemable or not?.

By their fruits we shall know them.

Primesky:
Good!, so can you counter Satan without the Holy Spirit. You seem not to get my position here. If you depend on head knowledge of the scriptures to defend yourself on the level of arguments, the devil will floor you!. I maintain that position. However, if we depend on the spirit of God to guide us using the same scriptures, we can stand our ground and be right. Anybody can quote the correct scripture but deceptively. That's the devil's trick and many are victims of this, after all is in the bible they say. Wrong!

...scriptures without the Holy Spirit to guide you could be confusing because the bible is not just an ordinary book, it's spiritual and requires the Spirit of God to give you discernment. Please, do well to understand before criticising. You mustn't accept my position neither do I. The final arbiter here is God. That's my position

Dear Mr P.A. to the Holy Spirit, is the Holy Spirit something that is invoked whenever a Christian needs it and disappears after use? Did Jesus not say that the Holy Spirit would abide with us and be in us always?(John 14:17). Maybe your own "holy spirit" is fleeting, hence whenever you want to study the Bible you still need to invoke the Spirit (that is already in you) to come and dwell again. Whenever there is a subject of controversy about a scripture, instead of reading it with common sense that the Holy Spirit has given you, you still need to go and invoke your own "holy spirit".

Listen, the ministry of the Holy Spirit in Bible interpretation does not mean interpreters can ignore common sense and logic. Since the Spirit is "the Spirit of truth" (John 14:17; 15:26 ; 16:13 ), He would not teach concepts that fail to meet the tests of truth. Though spiritual truths often supersede man's reasoning ability, they do not contradict or conflict with reason. Clear thinking, then, along with normal procedures followed in comprehending written communications is essential in Bible interpretation and harmonizes with the Holy Spirit's role. The Spirit seeks to aid the Spirit-filled learner to think clearly and accurately. You as an interpreter must employ principles of reasoning in making inductions, deductions, analogies, and comparisons. Think Paul. Think Daniel that was in an era when the Holy Spirit had not been promised whom yet was able to discern the scriptures (Daniel 9:2).

I don't blame you for jumping on the bandwagon that like to shout "Holy Spirit" when they encounter superior argument, I blame your formative years that was devoid of critical thinking learning. The good news is that it's not too late to acquire the skill of thinking clearly & rationally, and also to be reasonable and open-minded.

M0ron:
Primesky is a total idiot. On what basis are we supposed to judge doctrine other than scriptures?

He repeats one argument that nowhere are we told to stop tithing so we must continue. I asked him how come his pastor never uses urim and Thummin and he was tongue tied. He has deficiencies in logic because he has been taught to defend tithing on this basis and nothing else. When he meets other arguments he loses his mind

But he is one of those idle college pupils who have just discovered Nairaland so let’s forgive him

Lool. He lacks disciplined thinking that is reasonable, rational and informed by evidence.

Primesky:
Hahaha... How does it feel?. It seems you can't do without cursing and you're the one fit to defend the scriptures?. What a confusion. Again I advise you to seek Jesus now, He alone can remove that poison from you.

Please, stop misinterpreting my position. It's either you didn't read what I said clearly or you're just bent on causing confusion. No where did I say we must continue. My point has always been that since we(God's children) cannot all agree concerning the position of the scriptures and of God regarding tithing, it is wise for us to personally seek the help of God. If that is a crime, I have no apologies!

You claiming to defend it, have not ceased in cursing abusing and misquoting. It seems you have a different agenda. I won't indulge you.

By their fruits, we shall know them!. I forgive you

Keep your forgiveness

Your argument for tithing is nowhere we’re you asked to stop. You kept on barking all over demanding such scriptures stopping tithing

connectikut89:
Lool. He lacks disciplined thinking that is reasonable, rational and informed by evidence.

Agreed. Such a tunnel vision defense of the indefensible really makes Pro-tithing arguments look more desperate