₦airaland Forum

AlphaT1:
I told my MBBS colleague of mine some days ago that if not for people like him I would think reading MBBS in Nigeria makes one myopic and stupid that you can't even use google to get information. We are both HSE professionals. We discussed at length objectively pointing out the issues, JOHESU has its blame no doubt about that but NMA as the head of the health sector has really bastardized the health sector. From the ministers of health to commissioners of health, CMDs, MDs, boards of health institutions etc. are all doctors yet our hospitals keep deteriorating only for NMA to turn and blame JEHOSU instead of holding their colleagues (who are leaders of the sector) accountable.

Whenever I hear NMA saying 'international best practice' I wonder whether they have their own definition of the phrase. Because in developed world like UK, US, and Canada hospitals are headed by administrators who can be anybody with requisite administrative skills, the doctors and other health workers concentrate on offering clinical services as a team with mutual respect for one another. The USA surgeon general for instance, is a nurse, NMA cannot allow this happen in Nigeria yet still quote international best practices. The head of WHO is a biologist from Ethiopia.
The consultant cadre issue, according to NMA would confuse the patient, as if Nigeria or JOHESU invented it; this is obtainable in the UK, US, and Canada that are ranked among the top 10 ..so which one is NMA's international best practices?
NMA also does not allow any non-medical doctor to do MPH in Nigeria, only doctors are qualified to do it; a program that any science graduate can do even at Harvard and the likes. This is pathetic. You cannot continue to suppress and oppress someone and expect him/her not to react at some point.
It is the right of every civil servant to rise to the peak of his or her career (which is director) but NMA oppressed other health workers for many years saying that if others get to the director level, it will confuse the patient. I dont know how! JOHESU had to go to court to get judgement some few years ago.
I can go on and on and on ......
The crisis in the health sector is as a result of failure of our leaders aided by the NMA who has refused to carry the others along as the head of the team. Just recently the Canadian medical association rejected their pay increase insisting that the govt must increase that of allied health workers first. The opposite is d case in Nigeria.

worlexy:
I will not be the one teaching you basic things that you ought to know if you actually did the basic medical science courses as you claimed. If you want to know how foot drops or other things happen, go and read on them but let me guide you a bit, quacks and people like you who don't know their boundary conduct deliveries at home and in your shops, and most of these delivery end up as obstructed labour in which the head of the baby compresses the sciatic nerve against the bony pelvis and causes foot drop post partum. if you work in the tertiary health centre you will know that such places are referral places that manage complicated cases referred from people who have mismanaged these people. That's probably why you must have been seeing foot drops and Erb's palsy. But your ignorance and laziness won't allow you to ask questions and find out from patients how and where their problems started

phantom:
We are still on this NMA vs JOHESU thing years after! Na wa o! This country is cursed!
Let me just leave this here......there should be mutual respect for one another.
Anyone should be able to head the hospital with AN ADMINISTRATIVE DEGREE, johesu or nma.
Why? Because the hospitals should be run as a business...they should be self funding. Thats what you get in saner climes. Govt should divest itself, play a minimal role in funding but a major role in REGULATION.
As regards consultancy position for johesu,i have no issues with it BUT the NMA will not sit and let that happen by rising through the ranks as a civil servant.
The murses,pharmacists and lab TECHNOLOGISTS MUST be willing to attain extra post graduate training the way the doctors do in a particular area of their respective fields. Otherwise it will not be fair to a medical consultant to earn the same with a "consultant" radiographer who was promoted to that level because,lets not kid ourselves,thats the aim of JOHESU.
Lastly, JOHESU should know that we (doctors)CREATED them and we can EXSANGUINATE them.
If this rubbish "superiority" battle continues, all it takes is for the doctors WHO ACTUALLY TREAT the patients to REJECT any test result not ratified by a pathologist with his stamp or a radiology report by a radiologist(NOT RADIOGRAPHER BECAUSE I SEE PEOPLE DONT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE) and see these people respect themeselves and the boundaries.Some states are already adopting that pathologists and radiologists MUST have their stamps to ratify results. This will curb quackery. It means if you bring a test result or radiology report without a doctors stamp(pathologist or radiologist as the case may be), you will be refused treatment until the right thing is done.

God bless the nigerian health sector!
NB: the radiographer takes or acquires the images of the body....the radiologist is the doctor who looks at those imagesvand diagnoses what is wrong with the patient and refers to another doctor colleague to treat. Please in this patient flow, who should sit,close his mouth and be humble? Nigerians,you be the judge! Im out
PHANTOM

frankpro27:
Lol. As a Pharm. D holder. I do everything a doctor does in the hospital aside surgery. Wat can u say about dat? I make nothing less than a million every month. Nd doctors don't knw anything about drugs, aside name Nd usage. Most of dem don't even knw the dosing, not to talk of side effect, mechanism of action Nd interactions. I personally ve a photocopying machine for all d blunders I receive as prescriptions from doctors. This war is just starting

phantom:
Otherwise it will not be fair to a medical consultant to earn the same with a "consultant" radiographer who was promoted to that level because,lets not kid ourselves,thats the aim of JOHESU. PHANTOM

phantom:
Lastly, JOHESU should know that we (doctors)CREATED them and we can EXSANGUINATE them.
If this rubbish "superiority" battle continues, all it takes is for the doctors WHO ACTUALLY TREAT the patients to REJECT any test result not ratified by a pathologist with his stamp or a radiology report by a radiologist(NOT RADIOGRAPHER BECAUSE I SEE PEOPLE DONT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE) and see these people respect themeselves and the boundaries.Some states are already adopting that pathologists and radiologists MUST have their stamps to ratify results. This will curb quackery. It means if you bring a test result or radiology report without a doctors stamp(pathologist or radiologist as the case may be), you will be refused treatment until the right thing is done. PHANTOM

phantom:
NB: the radiographer takes or acquires the images of the body....the radiologist is the doctor who looks at those imagesvand diagnoses what is wrong with the patient and refers to another doctor colleague to treat. PHANTOM

phantom:
Please in this patient flow, who should sit,close his mouth and be humble? PHANTOM

Stoicbaba:
The fight for Consultancy status as carried by JOHESU will only benefit those who have gone through the rigour of their different post graduate colleges...not for all, and I doubt, Radiographers would be conferred such, as they do not have such school yet...The keyword is YET.

I hope this will happen, so we can see how the health sector will be well served...

God bless the nigerian health sector!
Just like there have been a revolving place for a REPORTING RADIOGRAPHER in other climes, same will happen in Nigeria health system... It can only be delayed but it will happen (of course, I bet you are aware of some radiographers reporting currently)
As for this statement...I smile, as it still showcases who was actually talking...

Nigerians,you be the judge! Im out
PHANTOM

Overall, nice reasonable thoughts to some extents...

Note
A leader must always be seen to be the leader (by carrying everyone along) and not just saying he is one...

I made this comments, as I believe I am talking to a more matured Dr.

DatIjebuBoi:
Excuse me when this happens what will be the use of radiologists.because on this thread,we have pharmacists who claim to be doctors without surgical knowledge and now radiographers.personally it seems to me that varoius sectors are taking bits of the doctors role and adding it to theirs.pls
enlighten me.

DatIjebuBoi:
Excuse me when this happens what will be the use of radiologists.because on this thread,we have pharmacists who claim to be doctors without surgical knowledge and now radiographers.personally it seems to me that varoius sectors are taking bits of the doctors role and adding it to theirs.pls
enlighten me.

worlexy:
I just laugh when JOHESU spread the lies that Doctors can't work without them, that is the greatest lie from the pit of hell. A doctor was trained to be able to do all the works paramedics(JOHESU) does, it's JOHESU that can't do most of what a doctor can do. Now let's not confuse "can" with "won't". The fact that a doctor can work and make the hospital to work at 100% capacity doesn't mean he will do it, if you want doctors to make the hospital work at 100% anytime johesu is on strike, all the FG needs to do is to say for that particular Hospital, all the doctors will be paid for their normal doctor works and will also be paid the for the JOHESU work they will do while the strike lasts(if JOHESU salary in that hospital is N5m, just tell the doctors that since johesu are not working, that 5m will be shared on the doctors salaries while the strike lasts, then you will see that the doctors will do all the works) They won't do it with this present set up because it doesn't make sense to do someone else's work and the person that hasn't worked will still get paid for doing nothing and the person that has done extra work won't get anything extra.
Also when the doctors start doing all the work, majority of those that will come and benefit from that service are still the striking johesu members because like they say everytime that they make up 95% of the hospital workforce.
Now let's analyse the work johesu do in the hospital

1. Pharmacists
The pharmacist in our hospitals only read what a doctor prescribes and dispense the drugs, no more no less.
Pharmacists that work in pharmaceutical companies(they are not under johesu because they don't work in the hospital) are the ones that produce drugs and some medical consumables.

2. Nurses
They give injections, and other medications to patients, do vital signs some of them take deliveries.

Doctors can do all that

3. Lab scientists and technicians
They run tests on blood, urine and other samples sent to them by doctors

There are doctors in the Lab that can also run all the tests but johesu would have locked up the lab so that doctors don't have access to the lab

4. Radiographers
They shoot X-ray, CT scan, MRI and doctors in the radiology dept are the ones that report the film the radiographers shoot.

Doctors can shoot too


So have you seen why they always lock up everywhere when they go on strike?

Now in order to frustrate the doctors more, they include these sets of people in their gang up association called Johesu: The cleaners/sweepers in the hospital, the man that operates the generators, the admin staff. You know why? So that if the doctors do the work of the core hospital staff johesu, if there's power failure the generator man will be no where to be found cos he will claim he is also johesu and he's on strike, the admin staff that should normally prepare salaries and have no business in patient's care will also not prepare the salary of the doctors that are working. So you see? a gateman, generator man, admin staff and the rest all want pay parity with the doctors, and you want the FG to take Johesu serious

funmisticqueen:
leave him alone, he has forgotten that nigerian patients are good liars, they will say it was the doctor that did it, when some don't even know that it was an auxillary nurse. everyone in the health sector makes mistakes

JoannaSedley:
With this mindset you will find it difficult to assimilate well in saner climes. Everything you wrote here is what is wrong with Nigeria. Doctor's job are being done by other people. Some have done so for years without getting caught, maybe you have not been listening to news of primary and secondary school dropouts who have been working as doctors for aeons. Talk more of nurses, pharmacist and LAB scientists.
The sole difference is that others were taught to obey the law and respect professional boundaries while doctors in Nigeria are erroneously told that they can commit quackery and go scot free.
What more can I say, until the malpractice lawyers start living up to expectations, the disgraceful mindset behind this write up will always be a yardstick for international community to qualify our health system as one of the worst in the world. There is no developed country with good health indices that have their doctors claiming that they are jack of all trade.

Honestly, this is quite unsettling and disgraceful.
Please argue about this in the confine of your home not on the internet where every sane people converge.

armadeo:
You should also include radiographers too.

Anyway in my opinion there is no place for consultant any other thing in the hospital setting.. it holds no benefit to the patient and we all k ow it's all about specialist allowance.

Then post graduate program is already open for those who want to run it to PhD level and nobody is stopping them.

funmisticqueen:
NMA has a point saying that the title of consultancy would mislead patients because it is true. remember that majority of the population in developing countries are educated while the reverse is the case in nigeria. For crying out loud, many nigerians dont know the difference between a doctor and a nurse, especially if the person is female. Ask most female doctors, especially those that work in the public setting, a patient has referred to them as 'nurse' several times, meanwhile i have personally seen a lot of male nurses being called 'doctor' by patients.

frankpro27:
Lol. As a Pharm. D holder. I do everything a doctor does in the hospital aside surgery. Wat can u say about dat? I make nothing less than a million every month. Nd doctors don't knw anything about drugs, aside name Nd usage. Most of dem don't even knw the dosing, not to talk of side effect, mechanism of action Nd interactions. I personally ve a photocopying machine for all d blunders I receive as prescriptions from doctors. This war is just starting

AlphaT1:
How does calling you a nurse as a doctor affect patient care? It is your duty to educate them that you are not a nurse but a doctor or vice versa. Thank God you made reference to public setting, is it possible for a pharmacist to go into d doctor's consulting room and consult because he is a consultant? No. Every professional has their area and office of practice which cannot be substituted. Even a paediatrician for example cannot just go and consult say in opd just because he is a doctor. Public settings are organized settings with rules and regulations and sanctions as well.

AlphaT1:
How does calling you a nurse as a doctor affect patient care? It is your duty to educate them that you are not a nurse but a doctor or vice versa. Thank God you made reference to public setting, is it possible for a pharmacist to go into d doctor's consulting room and consult because he is a consultant? No. Every professional has their area and office of practice which cannot be substituted. Even a paediatrician for example cannot just go and consult say in opd just because he is a doctor. Public settings are organized settings with rules and regulations and sanctions as well.

frankpro27:
This is the reason we ve sooo much deaths these days. The probability of ppl dying in the hospital is increasing daily cuz of this ur mentality. Wat doctors knw is basics. Just like every other Person in d health field did basic anatomy, physiology, pathology, pathophysiology,biochemistry etc. Don't tell me ur dat dumb. Nd I say it again, aside surgery I can do everything a doctor does. I can diagnose, treat, manage a patient from my pharmacy. If it requires test, I sent d patient to the Lab. Ur senior colleagues ve seen Whr it is going b4 they started frustrating us, bt they lost b4 it even began

WesleyPepper:
This is the height of delusion. What is the everything a doctor does that you do oga dispenser

addey44:
Non-physicians have been heading health ministries since time immemorial. Is that, however, what we are talking about here? Why not address the proper issues.

mylifeisagift:
Olodo! u think every disease is malaria and typhoid that you ignorantly prescribe augumentin and cipro for..Cuz thats what u guys do...Jokers everywhere

frankpro27:
Loooosers

WesleyPepper:
Quack dispenser

frankpro27:
Hohohohoho. Hahahahahaha. Loser

daniel2090:
the problems with the health sector in nigeria is almost same as with any other sector in nigeria.And what is the pillar of this problem;"not staying in your zone of responsibilities".
when an individual refuses to stay in the zone of responsibility and specialty in this case,such person loses relevance
A doctor has his own responsibility bestowed upon by virtue of being a doctor,if he wants to stay relevant,he will not encroach into the responsibility of another.infact between specialist doctors,a cardiologist cannot make a diagnosis and decision that supersedes that of a neurologist when it comes to a neuropatient,funny enough both of them are trained to recognize such patient but one is more skilled to manage such patient and vice versa.in best international practice,both specialist doctors do not collect same salary and allowances
In the UK,US and canada,and other advanced countries.,a nurse does not do what a doctor is trained to do ,they are meant to assist the doctors and make the management of the patient easier hence they a crucial role,however a nurse cannot take the role of a medical doctors,hence the financial compensation cannot be thesame.A nurse cannot make a diagnosis for the doctor in a real hospital setting.it is only in nigeria in which a nurse may boast that what a doctor can do,he or she can do.do that in the US and u get jailed for it with your nursing licence revoked.
A pharmacist has a crucial role,but making a diagnosis and managing a patient directly has never been part of it historically.infact in the states and Uk,a pharmacist is prohibited from dispencing some certain drugs if not all except the client has a prescription or written order from a licenced doctors.it is only in nigeria that you will see a pharmacist giving bromocriptine to a young patient with only menorhagia as complaints without a full option history(its a true story,happened fews days ago).well,i am not generalising this error to all pharmacist,but he made an error by not referring to a physician(Obs and gynae precisely) he could have just stayed in his zone of responsibility.
historically,physicians are known to be moving from houses to house doing everything but there was need to improve efficiency and patient management hence the creation of the idea of a nurse and etc.all these are essential in patients managenent but provided they all stay in their zone without interfeering with laydown structure.
nobody is against career profession and advancement in any medical related profession as long as one stay in his or her area of calling
if anybody has any contradiction or different opinion,let him or her find out the roles,responsibilities and financial compensations attached to individual medical professions in the UK,US ,canada and other european countries for an unbiased realistics view.

funmisticqueen:
it doesnt but it butresses the point that a patient can assume a nurse is a doctor, and when that happens, espcially in the rural setting, quack practices can take place. i have personally heard a patient say a doctor gave his son 'blood transfusion' at home. only to find out that the blood in question was probably what i think was iron sucrose or iron dextran in normal saline solution. He finally presented his son to hospital in hypovolaemic shock due to ruptured viscus and it was an auxillary nurse that gave it

chioma134:
Hehehe...Ignorance is bliss. Trained to diagnose? That is the biggest blunder I've read. You are doing what all apprentice chemists are doing, and instead of you to hide your head in shame, you are boasting about it on an open forum. I only blame our govt as anybody can do anything without being punished.

worlexy:
Thank you
Please join be in bursting all their lies.
"All that is needed for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing "

Let's educate the public and correct the lies they are being fed by johesu

funmisticqueen:
it doesnt but it butresses the point that a patient can assume a nurse is a doctor, and when that happens, espcially in the rural setting, quack practices can take place. i have personally heard a patient say a doctor gave his son 'blood transfusion' at home. only to find out that the blood in question was probably what i think was iron sucrose or iron dextran in normal saline solution.

Cityguy:
Hahaha.... that is how they expose themselves. One so called 'vocal' pharmacist (I would rather describe him as having oral diarrhoea) was handed over to law enforcement agencies at a meeting organised by NDLEA that had in attendance other security agencies. It was a forum to discuss the menace of drug abuse and ways forward. The same spirit that has been pushing one of my acquitances to go shout 'transmission transition' at police station entered him. He started boasting how he was 'treating' people including youths with tramadol without doctors prescription. You needed to have seen the drama. Until regulatory agencies get more serious and arrest challatans in health care who exploit people's ignorance to enrich themselves, we would continue to be worse off in every area others excell.