psychologist:
That is why I like my discipline Engineering there is no dichotomy whatsoever

From civil to EEE to M.E
There's no battle for supremacy, we do our "strength of material", calculus, thermodynamics, technical drawings etc, together from year 1 to 5, we are so much into each other that an outsider will not be able to tell we are from different departments..


Engine boys rock

Jobia:
.. and girls?

flyca:

Market woman
Medical doctors trash you, you come to Nairaland and cry. Well-respected indeed

Jobia:
.. and girls?

flyca:

Even in these advanced countries you mentioned, their is disparity. In China, for instance, "zhuangke" which is equivalent of OND is different from "gaozhuang" which is the equivalent of "HND" is different from "benke" which is Bachelors, different from "shuoshi", which is Masters. When you get employed into a company, your academic qualification determines the cadre you are placed. That is where you start growing from. Everybody respects each other. Nobody drags a position superior to what he/she has acquired academically. Afterall, there was pre-requisites for entry into higher education.

Tomorrow 3rd class will come and be dragging position with 1st class. How? Because "they took the same courses together". So?

The institution is not growing because of the people who wants to be placed where they are not qualified to be. They are the ones dragging everyone backwards.

psychologist:

Mba there are no girls in engineering
Only boys

PhilipGallagher:

He said engine boys this includes girls too...lol. All engg students whether boy or girl are known as Engg (Engine) Boys...lol

Acidosis:


If you've been employed for at least 5 years, trust me, what people studied in school won't be of relevance to you anymore.

A lot of employees in the labour market don't even know what their colleagues studied in school. I don't think HR reveals such details. It took some employees 10 years to actually recognize that the man they've been saying "yes sir" to for ages had a "lower certification". Sometimes, roles and experience play important roles. In fact, for most productive companies (not government work), promotions and perks are based on performance appraisals/feedback from your manager or supervisor, not what you studied some 20 years ago.

There are doctors in many large engineering firms and other non-health sector organisation, why are they not ruling such organisations?

You are an Engineer so I expect more from you. In Engineering, an Architect is supposed to work hand in hand with a builder or construction engineer, yet Architecture in most schools is rated highly above others in terms of rigour, terms and duration of training. I've seen some Architects go back to school to study construction management (a perceived "lower course" ). New engineering courses are emerging on a daily basis given trends in the global economy, yet the older ones are not complaining.

I expect you to settle your scores with Amarabae, it is not a very good thing to speak ill of other health workers because they don't carry the MBBS tag. Some people just want to be Nurses, Pharmacists, and nothing more. They want to be appreciated and allowed to reach the peak of their careers.

Jobia:
tufiakwa abeg

I refuse on behalf of engine ladies

PhilipGallagher:

Lol...don't fight it

Acidosis:


If you've been employed for at least 5 years, trust me, what people studied in school won't be of relevance to you anymore.

A lot of employees in the labour market don't even know what their colleagues studied in school. I don't think HR reveals such details. It took some employees 10 years to actually recognize that the man they've been saying "yes sir" to for ages had a "lower certification". Sometimes, roles and experience play important roles. In fact, for most productive companies (not government work), promotions and perks are based on performance appraisals/feedback from your manager or supervisor, not what you studied some 20 years ago.

There are doctors in many large engineering firms and other non-health sector organisation, why are they not ruling such organisations?

You are an Engineer so I expect more from you. In Engineering, an Architect is supposed to work hand in hand with a builder or construction engineer, yet Architecture in most schools is rated highly above others in terms of rigour, terms and duration of training. I've seen some Architects go back to school to study construction management (a perceived "lower course" ). New engineering courses are emerging on a daily basis given trends in the global economy, yet the older ones are not complaining.

I expect you to settle your scores with Amarabae, it is not a very good thing to speak ill of other health workers because they don't carry the MBBS tag. Some people just want to be Nurses, Pharmacists, and nothing more. They want to be appreciated and allowed to reach the peak of their careers.

MrBigiman:


Ur write up is filled with sentiments.

First u are replying a man who a fellow Johesu member insulted and called his course the worst among courses. The same Amarabae went ahead to insult Agricultural engineering, claiming they are lower rated than MLS. The same rating she criticises in hospitals, saying no profession in hospitals are superior. But even a herbiphrenic mad man will not compare MBBS with lab science or nursing, even in the most advanced and democratic countries in the world. You should have addressed the lady before turning to the sincere man

You stated that in work places after some years people don't know what you studied. That again is partly the truth. In professional courses 20 years after, people still know what u studied. A gynaecologist will remain one after 20yrs, and a nurses role doesn't become skewed after 30years. In the Law court we know the Lawyer, the judge and the court clerk, and the court clerk never demands to be the head, and never tries tries to distort an obvious narrative. It's only in courses that are not essentially professional like Lab science, that a 2yrs graduate can claim to know more than a graduate of 20yrs, because it's mainly technical skills. Also Actng, singing, presenting etc.

Doctors don't fight to head engineering firms because thats not their niche. However, engineers don't fight to lead their clinics in companies. Chevron, Shell, Slumberger Clinics are also headed by physicians, and not pharmacists or Lab scientists. Note that the aforementioned coys are not Nigerian companies so u don't scream Nigerian factor. Note also that Doctors are paid more than other health workers in these company without any Johesu protest or pay parity struggle there. So it's obvious the struggle is a Nigerian factored struggle, where we disregard order and distort structure.

Acidosis:


flyca's first post formed the basis of the argument so he/she started the fight by speaking ill of all paramedical courses. Read his/her first post on this thread.



As far as I know, Lab scientists do not attempt to distort operations in ICUs. It is the doctors who want to control laboratory functions, not minding whether the B.Sc/MLS scientists i/c is experienced in his field or not. I have never seen where a laboratory scientist or pharmacist attempts to conduct surgical operations or diagnose a patient in the hospital.

But then again, these problems predate most of us. I have seen a lot of MBBS holders go to back to study M.Sc. Physiology, Anatomy, Pharmacology, etc., just to become Lecturers in these courses. This behavior creates problems because they force those in the field with BSc. backgrounds out of jobs. The notion is a lecturer with a BSc. Anatomy cannot lecture MBBS students, yet these students sit to receive lectures fr other faculties (same BSc).

The question is why admit people to study BSc. Anatomy when you have the Doctors to do it all?

Your illustration using a law court is not relevant. Apart from the clerk, cleaners and other informal staff, everyone is expected to have a Law degree (be it the magistrate, judge, solicitor, or lawyer). In a typical health centre however, there are different relevant departments, each carrying different entry and admission criteria. If I meet the Nursing admission criteria, why can't I attain the peak of my career in Nursing? Why should anyone be threatened by someone else's career progression?

If health centres must operate like courts, then scrap Nursing science, Pharmacy and others, so Doctors should do everything so everybody can rest.



The struggle is a Nigerian factored one where people value ego, perception and titles more than productivity and efficiency. Pay parity struggles are very ethical and all labour unions (whether petrol marketers, doctors or Johesu) have equal rights to make individual demands from the government without obstructions from other unions.

Do I need to remind you the perception of foreign trained doctors about Nigerian based doctors? Most of the problems you guys create in hospitals were instilled in you from the medical school.

TempoJames:



So in final analysis do you have faith that johesuites will become medical doctor?

Acidosis:


No I think medical doctors should mind their business.

TempoJames:



Do you think medical doctors are not minding their business? Where do u want pathologists and radiologists to go if their business is not in the laboratory?

TempoJames:



So in final analysis do you have faith that johesuites will become medical doctor? Because as it stands now medical doctors by virtue of being trained in laboratory practise are booming both in clinical and laboratory practise and the Government can't help you.
Any hope for johesu and if yes what is the way forward my brother?

Acidosis:


flyca's first post formed the basis of the argument so he/she started the fight by speaking ill of all paramedical courses. Read his/her first post on this thread.



As far as I know, Lab scientists do not attempt to distort operations in ICUs. It is the doctors who want to control laboratory functions, not minding whether the B.Sc/MLS scientists i/c is experienced in his field or not. I have never seen where a laboratory scientist or pharmacist attempts to conduct surgical operations or diagnose a patient in the hospital.

But then again, these problems predate most of us. I have seen a lot of MBBS holders go to back to study M.Sc. Physiology, Anatomy, Pharmacology, etc., just to become Lecturers in these courses. This behavior creates problems because they force those in the field with BSc. backgrounds out of jobs. The notion is a lecturer with a BSc. Anatomy cannot lecture MBBS students, yet these students sit to receive lectures fr other faculties (same BSc).

The question is why admit people to study BSc. Anatomy when you have the Doctors to do it all?

Your illustration using a law court is not relevant. Apart from the clerk, cleaners and other informal staff, everyone is expected to have a Law degree (be it the magistrate, judge, solicitor, or lawyer). In a typical health centre however, there are different relevant departments, each carrying different entry and admission criteria. If I meet the Nursing admission criteria, why can't I attain the peak of my career in Nursing? Why should anyone be threatened by someone else's career progression?

If health centres must operate like courts, then scrap Nursing science, Pharmacy and others, so Doctors should do everything so everybody can rest.



The struggle is a Nigerian factored one where people value ego, perception and titles more than productivity and efficiency. Pay parity struggles are very ethical and all labour unions (whether petrol marketers, doctors or Johesu) have equal rights to make individual demands from the government without obstructions from other unions.

Do I need to remind you the perception of foreign trained doctors about Nigerian based doctors? Most of the problems you guys create in hospitals were instilled in you from the medical school.

Skyken99:


Why can't they boom in kidney & heart transplant, or were they not trained in those ones too?

Acidosis:


The pathologists (if at all they exist in most Nigerian hospitals) should work hand in hand with the BSc. Medical Laboratory Scientists (MLS), MSc. MLS, Microbiologists, Biochemists, etc. in the lab. Whoever is made the head (based on qualification, level or experience) should accept the role as a leader and be ready to work with other team members.

Since the pathologist has willingly chosen to work in the laboratory, other doctors (e.g. urologist, radiologists, etc) should mind their business in their various units.

Amarabae:

God bless you.
I wonder how a profession will be pained that others want to advance in their career.
I don't see a medical laboratory scientists dragging the theater with doctors nor pharmacists trying to drag a medical doctor role.
Johesu professionals want to advance in our careers and meet up with our colleagues in foreign countries,
That's international best practices.
Any nurse who leaves the shores of Nigeria is very happy and proud to work with foreign doctors because their mentality is different from what we have here.
We are not doctors
We are nurses and proud.
I pray for a professional inter relationship and partnership to be restored between all professionals in the health sector of Nigeria.

Amarabae:

God bless you.
I wonder how a profession will be pained that others want to advance in their career.
I don't see a medical laboratory scientists dragging the theater with doctors nor pharmacists trying to drag a medical doctor role.
Johesu professionals want to advance in our careers and meet up with our colleagues in foreign countries,
That's international best practices.
Any nurse who leaves the shores of Nigeria is very happy and proud to work with foreign doctors because their mentality is different from what we have here.
We are not doctors
We are nurses and proud.
I pray for a professional inter relationship and partnership to be restored between all professionals in the health sector of Nigeria.

Skyken99:


Written by Isaiah Ugochukwu Obialor (Student Medlab Scientist)
Reviewed by Iruke Kingsley Chukwuebuka
(Student Optometrist)
Edited by Wisdom Ngumoha
(Student Doctor)
Fore worded by Ogechi Blessing Godwin
(Student Nurse)
And Arugo Wisdom
(Student Pharmacist)

Nigerian Medical Sector
There's no "I" in TEAM

JoannaSedley:
For real Damn it. The Jamaican or Dominican or is it Caribbean mzdarkskin? Chaii. This is too hard to take. So 190 is taken.



My poor heart cannot take this.....

eyah but the poor thing is i dont even know you

who even are you?

190theclown:


eyah but the poor thing is i dont even know you

who even are you?

JoannaSedley:
A nobody. A lone wolf. Someone who watched from the dark. A stalker. Take a pick 190,

Still writes with no capital letters.?

flyca:
Even in these advanced countries you mentioned, their is disparity. In China, for instance, "zhuangke" which is equivalent of OND is different from "gaozhuang" which is the equivalent of "HND" is different from "benke" which is Bachelors, different from "shuoshi", which is Masters. When you get employed into a company, your academic qualification determines the cadre you are placed. That is where you start growing from. Everybody respects each other. Nobody drags a position superior to what he/she has acquired academically. Afterall, there was pre-requisites for entry into higher education.

Tomorrow 3rd class will come and be dragging position with 1st class. How? Because "they took the same courses together". So?

The institution is not growing because of the people who wants to be placed where they are not qualified to be. They are the ones dragging everyone backwards.

TempoJames:
How mamy Nigerians with stage 5 CKD are ready to pay 1.5 million naira for a transplant? were u deaf/blind when Lagos state govt sponsored 2 successful kidney transplants. The issue in Nigeria is that the few rich people will always be rich enough to foot d bills outside Nigeria so they move out while the poor mass can't even handle the bills in the first place.

The other time I saw a patient with stage3 uraemic encephalopathy. Dialysis has already failed. When she heard the bills for kidney transplant she just asked to be discharged to go die at home.

LaudableXX:


What do you mean by "Tomorrow 3rd class will come and be dragging position with 1st class. Because "they took the same courses together". In the workplace, once a 3rd class degree holder & a 1st class degree holder are employed into the same job role, on the same salary scale to carry out the same duties, they are equal. Nobody earns a higher package than the other, due to the class of his degree. Your progress within the company then depends on the value you bring to your job, and how well you achieve your deliverables. I am talking about what happens in well-structured corporate organisations, with harmonised salary scales.

flyca:
If ever a company employs two young graduates (one first class graduate and a third class graduate) into the same job roles, to do the same things, for the same pay, that company is on it's track to failure because obviously, they understand neither hard work nor encourage hard work. Except the third class person has done something really extraordinary (through hard work still) to prove this capabilities and potentials. Or if it's back door recruitment, which brings me back to my first point, that such a company is set up for failure.

However, if a third class graduate is employed for another role in the company (say clerical work or something) where his first class classmate is the manager, then after some time, he starts to make trouble in the company with the usual cliche "after all we took the same courses and blablabla", he is bringing anarchy into the system. Such a person should be given a hot seat!

It is just like a driver telling his Oga, "after all I have driven you for 20 years, I know this car more than you. I am even older than you."
So? Does it make the car his own? See how people cause wahala?

These are just examples o, to explain how people can bring chaos into a system. It does NOT apply to the subject matter of this topic.

Main point is that, in whatever organization you are, do your own role, take your salary go home! Don't look into another person's.
If you are employed as a nurse in a hospital, beautiful. Hospitals need you, yes! Patients need you more, sure! But please don't go there and be rubbing shoulders with the doctors with these "after all" statements. It's annoying, sentiments aside.