solite3:

I m not insisting but only emphasizing on scripture.
the word 'apart cannot be used in place of without as they don't mean the same thing, the Greek translation is there for you to check.

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

the subject in this verse is all created things,
John points out two things
1. All things (created things) without exception was created by the word
2.without him it was not possible for any created thing to be made.
this automatically removes him from the subject.
HE WAS NOT A CREATED BEING.

Colossians 1:16-17 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

HE EXISTED ALL CREATED THINGS meaning he was eternal.
Again the apostle said all things in heaven were created by him, if he was created it will not be true hence the apostle would be wrong to say all thins in heaven was created by him.

in John 1:3, Col 1:16,17,Hebrew 1:2 , "by him" is not in the Greek manuscript. The Greek word "Dia" is found right there.
"Dia" means. "through" him is the correct rendition.


The insertion of "by". distorts that verse.
Just like other words that were distorted & forged to sweeten the trinity fallacy.


Therefore, everything under the sun was created "through" Christ, he worked with his Father to create the universe..Heb1:1,2. Colossians 1:13-16. John 1:2,3,14,18.
As John 1:2,3,14,18, points out, Christ was by the Father's side & Proverbs 8:22-33, Colossians 1:13-16 proves that Christ was indeed God's begotten son.

solite3:

I m not insisting but only emphasizing on scripture.
the word 'apart cannot be used in place of without as they don't mean the same thing, the Greek translation is there for you to check.

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

the subject in this verse is all created things,
John points out two things
1. All things (created things) without exception was created by the word
2.without him it was not possible for any created thing to be made.
this automatically removes him from the subject.
HE WAS NOT A CREATED BEING.

Colossians 1:16-17 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

HE EXISTED ALL CREATED THINGS meaning he was eternal.
Again the apostle said all things in heaven were created by him, if he was created it will not be true hence the apostle would be wrong to say all thins in heaven was created by him.

Don't argue blindly Man, Your manuscript admit the word ' apart from ' can be used there

This is a typical case of someone who want to belieive he was not created justifying without, which is contradictory as to how someone not created can be included among Sons of God who are all created beings.

And another person who believes he is created justifying Apart from.

Now the Big Bomb that will expose it all is the question :


1.1 Why is he called Son of God ?


1.2 are the Sons of God created ?

ScienceWatch:
I see you conveniently missed the gravity of my point. "And God said let us make man in our own image and likeness "

Now all evidence proves that man is indeed a triune being made up of three distinct entities working hopefully in harmony with each other.

Please answer this, who was God speaking to when he said, "Let us make..............."

Of all of God's creations, human beings were the last. He created the universe, the earth, plants and animals before he created humans.

Because Genesis 1:1 said " In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth" does NOT imply that they were created AT the same period of time. The heavens and the spirit creatures in it must surely have existed a long time before the creation of the earth was conceived.

In conclusion, when God said "let us make man in our image", he must have been speaking to his assembly of spirit creatures he made. And we know the first of God's creations was Jesus. That was why he was called the " beginning of His way, the earliest of God's achievements " (Proverbs 8:22), "the firstborn of all creation" (Colossians 1:15)

God is a God of teamwork. He assigns duties to his creations, heavenly or earthly.

1 Corinthians 15:25-28

25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. 27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

OneJ:


Therefore, everything under the sun was created "through" Christ, he worked with his Father to create the universe..Heb1:1,2. Colossians 1:13-16. John 1:2,3,14,18.
As John 1:2,3,14,18, points out, Christ was by the Father's side & Proverbs 8:22-33, Colossians 1:13-16 proves that Christ was indeed God's begotten son.

Gnostics would claim the phrase "everything under the sun was created "through" Christ", simply means "everything under the sun was created Wisely". And since Christ manifested Wisdom, people erroneously equate him with the 'Wisdom of God'. Gnostics would not claim the 'Wisdom of God' is God however, as God, to them, is way more than any one single thing, and they bear in mind the error of creating images of God and worshipping them, an error commonly found amongst some.

If the same error had been made in the time of Solomon the Wise, we might have ended up with a quarternity instead of the trinity we now have! Then again, if the Israelites had been in the fashion of not remembering that their God was a jealous God like Christians appear to have done, and made the same error of creating more gods to worship, I see no reason why they wouldn't have deified Moses before then. The Trinitarian Christians could then have added their two to an already existing trinity for a quintinity, a "Five in One God". We could easily have just claimed it's in connection with the number of fingers on the human hand! We could go further in fact. And with some proclaiming the deification of the most blessed amongst women, Mary, we could very easily have a "Six in One God" for a hexinity.

But why stop there? With a little imagination, and more bastardising of the original texts of the holy books as has been done for the concept of trinity, we could very easily make the "I Am That I Am" into a "seven in one" heptinity, or an "eight in one" octinity, a nine noninity, or even a nice royal round "Ten in One decinity God". After all, there are various many more candidates we could deify, the Holy Bible being one that springs to mind, since some practically worship it as if the copy they hold in their hands was written directly by God. There's Elijah who entered Heaven alive by fire. There's Isaiah, who, according to John, saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him. Deborah, if just so the glory of the victory will belong to a woman. Then John the Baptist, the wailer in the wilderness. Paul, "upon this rock" and all. We, in fact, wouldn't have to struggle much to find enough for a "12 in One God". What could be more gloriously almightier than that? Though I don't quite know what we'd call it in "nity", if anyone could help!

OneJ:


"Then the end will come when he (Christ) hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he (Christ) has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
For he "has put everything under his feet", Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him,IT IS CLEAR THAT THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE GOD HIMSELF, who put everything under Christ". 1 Cor 15:24,27.

Almighty God is not Jesus Christ.
Your trinity is a man made fallacy.
Pls, receive sense IJNA.

if only you can do without insult it would have been better for you.


Everything that the Father has is for Christ.


John 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

would this not be blasphemy if Jesus was not God?
considering the fact that God does not share his glory with another.

Smartini:


Of all of God's creations, human beings were the last. He created the universe, the earth, plants and animals before he created humans.

Because Genesis 1:1 said " In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth" does NOT imply that they were created AT the same period of time. The heavens and the spirit creatures in it must surely have existed a long time before the creation of the earth was conceived.

In conclusion, when God said "let us make man in our image", he must have been speaking to his assembly of spirit creatures he made. And we know the first of God's creations was Jesus. That was why he was called the " beginning of His way, the earliest of God's achievements " (Proverbs 8:22), "the firstborn of all creation" (Colossians 1:15)

God is a God of teamwork. He assigns duties to his creations, heavenly or earthly.

aaaah, thank you sir. Your posted is so refreshing to my spirit. May the almighty Jesus Christ draw your deeper and deeper into his incredible spiritual kingdom.

OneJ:



in John 1:3, Col 1:16,17,Hebrew 1:2 , "by him" is not in the Greek manuscript. The Greek word "Dia" is found right there.
"Dia" means. "through" him is the correct rendition.


The insertion of "by". distorts that verse.
Just like other words that were distorted & forged to sweeten the trinity fallacy.


Therefore, everything under the sun was created "through" Christ, [/b]he worked with his Father[b] to create the universe..Heb1:1,2. Colossians 1:13-16. John 1:2,3,14,18.
As John 1:2,3,14,18, points out, Christ was by the Father's side & Proverbs 8:22-33, Colossians 1:13-16 proves that Christ was indeed God's begotten son.

'by' is the correct rendition, the new world translation added and edited the bible in order to further the watch tower heresy.
Do you know that the founder of your organisation was a freemasonry and that your organisation employed their logo for long before changing it due ti public criticism?

Jesus didn't just create the physical world but also the Spiritual one, all angels from first to last were made by him and without him nothing can come into existence.

Colossians 1:16-17 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

@ bold how is it possible that another being was with God if God said he was alone during cteation.


Job 9:8
Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.

this suggests there was no other being with God that means Jesus must be God.

Have you not read, that even God the Father called Jesus God ?


But to the Son He says :

Your throne, O God, is forever and ever ;

A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of your Kingdom. - Hebrews 1: 8

madegreatbygrace:
Have you not read, that even God the Father called Jesus God ?


But to the Son He says :

Your throne, O God, is forever and ever ;

A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of your Kingdom. - Hebrews 1: 8

Many thanks. What more can I say when everyday I see evidence flowing like a mighty river out of many churches worldwide, confirming the Holy Gospels to be accurate and verifiably correct.

What an awesome God we serve. Wherever the full gospel (The Word and Spirit) is preached, no tedious mental gymnastics is needed. The mighty Holy Spirit doing the works of miracles signs and wonders forces us to glorify God and Jesus.

The most effective evidence for the varacity of the Gospels are the demonic deliverances, mind-blowing instant healing and science defying blessings.

I never argue for Jesus, I simply point interest people to churches were the awesome Holy Spirit is working. Jesus himself said that he is doing those miraculous things so that we will be amazed and then glorify God.

Peacefullove:



Don't argue blindly Man, Your manuscript admit the word ' apart from ' can be used there

This is a typical case of someone who want to belieive he was not created justifying without, which is contradictory as to how someone not created can be included among Sons of God who are all created beings.

And another person who believes he is created justifying Apart from.

Now the Big Bomb that will expose it all is the question :


1.1 Why is he called Son of God ?


1.2 are the Sons of God created ?

the right word is'without' as using apart from would contradict the bible.

the fact that God created all things not all other things like nwt wrongly inserted already mean that using without is the correct translation.



Romans 5:11
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.



Paul said God created all things through Christ do you agree with him?

solite3:
the right word is'without' as using apart from would contradict the bible.

So much for defending a lie Am still waiting for your response to 1.1 And 1.2

No apart from won't contradict based on your response to 1.1 and 1.2

the fact that God created all things not all other things like nwt wrongly inserted already mean that using without is the correct translation.

Don't make religious argument with me

Many Bible version insert other in various places when appropriate , So far it can be justified.

Whoever insert other in the places you talked about should not be criticized if they could Justify it.

And they are right going by 1.1 and 1.2 , Answer it if you think they are not justified !

Romans 5:11
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.



Paul said God created all things through Christ do you agree with him?

By construction, that is not what he meant.

Vs 15 he called him firstborn of creation.

How was he BORN to make him firstborn of creation ? is it that God married a wife or God created him .

He already admit he was created in vs 15, So 16 is saying all things aside Him .

Your response to 1.1 and 1.2 would set matters straight

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist.

The Father from whom ALL things came , Jesus included .

Learn

Ephesians 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

God created all things by Chris Jesus not all other things as watch inserted.

Peacefullove:

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist.

The Father from whom ALL things came , Jesus included .

Learn

is it all things that came through the father or all other things

solite3:
is it all things that came through the father or all other things

All things including Jesus,

Justification: the Father isn't son of anyone

solite3:

Ephesians 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

God created all things by Chris Jesus not all other things as watch inserted.

And All things came From the Father ( Jesus , Adam, Angels Sons of God )

Jesus included


Since it has now been established that Jesus was Created . Have a nice day

Peacefullove:


So much for defending a lie Am still waiting for your response to 1.1 And 1.2

No apart from won't contradict based on your response to 1.1 and 1.2



Don't make religious argument with me

Many Bible version insert other in various places when appropriate , So far it can be justified.

Whoever insert other in the places you talked about should not be criticized if they could Justify it.

And they are right going by 1.1 and 1.2 , Answer it if you think they are not justified !



By construction, that is not what he meant.

Vs 15 he called him firstborn of creation.

How was he BORN to make him firstborn of creation ? is it that God married a wife or God created him .

He already admit he was created in vs 15, So 16 is saying all things aside Him .

Your response to 1.1 and 1.2 would set matters straight

additions maybe made without altering the original intention, your organization subtly alters the contextual meaning of the bible for instance using apart from will change the context also using all other instead all things also changes the real meaning of the bible.

solite3:
additions maybe made without altering the original intention, your organization subtly alters the contextual meaning of the bible for instance using apart from will change the context also using all other instead all things also changes the real meaning of the bible.

If you have problem with any organization, go and solve it with them not peaceful love .

They have their reasons for that , I only support that view because Jesus is one of the many SONS produced by a Father .

Peacefullove:


If you have problem with any organization, go and solve it with them not peaceful love .

They have their reasons for that , I only support that view because Jesus is one of the many SONS produced by a Father .

where was it stated that God the Father produce Jesus.
The bible said God created [/b]All[b] things by christ so if God the created all things by christ then it does not include Jesus.
Jesus is the only uncreated Son of God.

Peacefullove:


And All things came From the Father ( Jesus , Adam, Angels Sons of God )

Jesus included


Since it has now been established that Jesus was Created . Have a nice day

through whom did God create those things?
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Peacefullove:


If you have problem with any organization, go and solve it with them not peaceful love .

They have their reasons for that , I only support that view because Jesus is one of the many SONS produced by a Father .

then you support a view that is against God.

solite3:


'by' is the correct rendition, the new world translation added and edited the bible in order to further the watch tower heresy.
Do you know that the founder of your organisation was a freemasonry and that your organisation employed their logo for long before changing it due ti public criticism?

Jesus didn't just create the physical world but also the Spiritual one, all angels from first to last were made by him and without him nothing can come into existence.

Colossians 1:16-17 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

@ bold how is it possible that another being was with God if God said he was alone during cteation.


Job 9:8
Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.

this suggests there was no other being with God that means Jesus must be God.

U are a LIAR. Charles Russel ,his family & JW. have NO CONNECTION. whatsoever with Freemasonry. Apostle of copy & paste falsehood, don't just go there !

Your very last sentence above is very false.

"He (Jesus) was with God in the beginning" (of creation). John 1:2.

v3: " THROUGH HIM ALL THINGS WERE MADE". (All things in heaven & on earth).

( In the oldest Greek manuscripts ,the exact word there is "dia autoü", ( "THROUGH HIM" ) that is right there.

The same Greek word "dia autou" is in Hebrew 1:2, Colossians 1:16. )
"The Only begotten,who came from the Father" John 1:14.

"No one has ever seen God,but the only begotten Son who is at the Father's side has made him known" John 1:18.

"....IT IS CLEAR THAT THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE GOD HIMSELF,who put everything under Christ" 1 Cor 15:27.

Mr Solite3, U no dey understand English?

Don't let the corrupted renditions from the 15th/16th Century Textus Receptus manuscript deceive & confuse U.

The King James Bible & a host of other versions were translated from that manuscript. The manuscript has many forgeries & distortions . For instance, 1 Tim3:16. "God was manifest in the flesh".

"Father,son, holy ghost. These three are one"
1 John5:7.

"By him" Hebrew 1:2,Col1:16, John 1:1,3..

"I AM THAT I AM "Exodus 3:14 no dey for Hebrew language....

Hebrew language has no present tense. "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh" means " I Will Become What I Will Become" in Exodus 3:14.

"Godhead" no dey for the older Greek manuscripts. "Godhead" was dubiously smuggled into most English Bible versions to sweeten the trinity fallacy.
"Deity " (in Greek means god, like God or divine) ,in the manuscript) was dubiously exchanged for "Godhead". (if your English teacher give U exam& asks U say "what's the synonym for divine"?, U come answer say "Godhead"
.Hahahahahaaaaa!!! )

Trinity fallacy is built on falsehood.

madegreatbygrace:
Have you not read, that even God the Father called Jesus God ?


But to the Son He says :

Your throne, O God, is forever and ever ;

A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of your Kingdom. - Hebrews 1: 8

He called humans GOD too, Ye are Gods he said .

So ?

Smh for ignorance

solite3:
then you support a view that is against God.

You don't just talk, proof it . all things came from the Father ( Jesus included ) and whatever came from the Father means its Created by him.

Answer my 1.1 and 1.2 and let's see who is against God


1.1 Why is he called Son of God ?


1.2 are the Sons of God created ?


Kindly do, am waiting . this will expose which view is wrong and correct

solite3:
through whom did God create those things?
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Not according to some other versions Man . stop kidding

International Standard Version
Through him all things were made, and apart from him nothing was made that has been made.


check NASB and many others .

So which is correct ? Mr solite3 answer my questions 1.1 and 1.2 and let's expose Lies

solite3:
where was it stated that God the Father produce Jesus.

Open your eyes and see firstBORN of all creation at Colossian 1 vs 15_ that's very direct.

Tell me, how was he born ?

The bible said God created [/b]All[b] things by christ so if God the created all things by christ then it does not include Jesus.

That was after he has been made ... Open your WYES again : FirstBORN of all creation , how was he born ?

Jesus is the only uncreated Son of God.

religion has really eaten deep into you to give this silly response above. A Son always proceed from a Biological Father . so A son has a beginning

Why is he called son of God if he is uncreated ?

Peacefullove:


Open your eyes and see firstBORN of all creation at Colossian 1 vs 15_ that's very direct.

Tell me, how was he born ?



That was after he has been made ... Open your WYES again : FirstBORN of all creation , how was he born ?



religion has really eaten deep into you to give this silly response above. A Son always proceed from a Biological Father . so A son has a beginning

Why is he called son of God if he is uncreated ?

I must confess you are a god, you really dealt well with the debates at hand. You are a god, I am a fan.

OneJ:



U are a LIAR. Charles Russel ,his family & JW. have NO CONNECTION. whatsoever with Freemasonry. Apostle of copy & paste falsehood, don't just go there !

Your very last sentence above is very false.

"He (Jesus) was with God in the beginning" (of creation). John 1:2.

v3: " THROUGH HIM ALL THINGS WERE MADE". (All things in heaven & on earth).

( In the oldest Greek manuscripts ,the exact word there is "dia autoü", ( "THROUGH HIM" ) that is right there.

The same Greek word "dia autou" is in Hebrew 1:2, Colossians 1:16. )
"The Only begotten,who came from the Father" John 1:14.

"No one has ever seen God,but the only begotten Son who is at the Father's side has made him known" John 1:18.

"....IT IS CLEAR THAT THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE GOD HIMSELF,who put everything under Christ" 1 Cor 15:27.

Mr Solite3, U no dey understand English?

Don't let the corrupted renditions from the 15th/16th Century Textus Receptus manuscript deceive & confuse U.

The King James Bible & a host of other versions were translated from that manuscript. The manuscript has many forgeries & distortions . For instance, 1 Tim3:16. "God was manifest in the flesh".

"Father,son, holy ghost. These three are one"
1 John5:7.

"By him" Hebrew 1:2,Col1:16, John 1:1,3..

"I AM THAT I AM "Exodus 3:14 no dey for Hebrew language....

Hebrew language has no present tense. "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh" means " I Will Become What I Will Become" in Exodus 3:14.

"Godhead" no dey for the older Greek manuscripts. "Godhead" was dubiously smuggled into most English Bible versions to sweeten the trinity fallacy.
"Deity " (in Greek means god, like God or divine) ,in the manuscript) was dubiously exchanged for "Godhead". (if your English teacher give U exam& asks U say "what's the synonym for divine"?, U come answer say "Godhead"
.Hahahahahaaaaa!!! )

Trinity fallacy is built on falsehood.

check it up rusell was a mason.
no doubt Jesus is God because he was with God in the beginning and God said he was alone.
all things were created through him is the same as all things were created by him.

Peacefullove:


Open your eyes and see firstBORN of all creation at Colossian 1 vs 15_ that's very direct.

Tell me, how was he born ?



That was after he has been made ... Open your WYES again : FirstBORN of all creation , how was he born ?



religion has really eaten deep into you to give this silly response above. A Son always proceed from a Biological Father . so A son has a beginning

Why is he called son of God if he is uncreated ?

Abeg who is God's wife? Since Jesus is God's son who is His mother? Since he was created

Peacefullove:


Open your eyes and see firstBORN of all creation at Colossian 1 vs 15_ that's very direct.

Tell me, how was he born ?

firstborn of all creation does not mean first created it means Christ has all preeminence


The description "first-born of all creation" speaks of Christ’s preexistence. He is not a creature but the eternal Creator (John 1:10). God created the world through Christ and redeemed the world through Christ (Hebrews 1:2-4).
Note that Jesus is called the first-born, not the first-created. The word "first-born" (Greek word "prototokos" signifies priority. In the culture of the Ancient Near East, the first-born was not necessarily the oldest child. First-born referred not to birth order but to rank. The first-born possessed the inheritance and leadership.
Therefore, the phrase expresses Christ's sovereignty over creation. After resurrecting Jesus from the dead, God gave Him authority over the Earth (Matthew 28:18). Jesus created the world, saved the world, and rules the world. He is the self-existent, acknowledged Head of creation.
Finally, the phrase recognizes Him as the Messiah: "I will make Him [Christ] My first-born, higher than the kings of the earth" (Psalm 89:27).
Six times the Lord Jesus is declared to be the first-born of God (see Romans 8:29; Colossians 1:15, 18; Hebrews 1:6; 12:23; Revelation 1:5). These passages declare the preexistence, the sovereignty, and the redemption that Christ offers.
Thus, the phrase "first-born of all creation" proclaims Christ’s preeminence. As the eternal Son of God, He created the universe. He is the Ruler of creation!

that was after he has been made ... Open your WYES again : FirstBORN of all creation , how was he born ?



religion has really eaten deep into you to give this silly response above. A Son always proceed from a Biological Father . so A son has a beginning

stop being cynical,
is God a biological father? your analogy is wrong?
every begotten son take a resemblance from their father,
as God the Father was uncreated so his son Jesus was not created.

[qoute]Why is he called son of God if he is uncreated ?[/quote] he is not just a Son bit the only begotten son of God, we can't explain every thing about God but nonetheless everything about him is true.
humans can't comprehend God.

Peacefullove:


You don't just talk, proof it . all things came from the Father ( Jesus included ) and whatever came from the Father means its Created by him.

Answer my 1.1 and 1.2 and let's see who is against God


1.1 Why is he called Son of God ?


1.2 are the Sons of God created ?


Kindly do, am waiting . this will expose which view is wrong and correct

the same bible said all things come through Christ that removes him from the creation.

the sons that are created are not the begotten sons.
do you believe God created all things through christ?

if yes that settles it.

John 1:3 said without Jesus nothing made would have been made
and


Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:


peacefullovell all things not some things were created by him.
did you go to skul?
if christ was created then the phrase all things would have been wrong.

you see that Paul said all things were created by christ for himself
is that not calming God's glory
remember that God does not share his glory how come he shares it with christ?