₦airaland Forum

x

0balufonlll:
I’ll try to keep this short, mans exhausted from the Araba’s burial festivities going on here.

I almost did not know how to respond to your post. It appears you did not understand my post & position.

- Bowen wrote that journal I posted screenshots from not ‘Conton’. My point however is that, like you do with drawing words & connections between Hebrew & Yoruba, what is your take with Bowen drawing words & connections between a variety of languages including Hebrew? What does this mean for your hypothesis? Does this mean Yoruba gave birth to all the languages Bowen referenced or Hebrew gave birth to all including Yoruba?

Which Àrábá? I understood your quote from Bowen perspective but deviated because Bowen was using borrowed words or shared words that were borrowed and didnt do extended research. After all,Bowen thought and claimed ,the word for father is “Baba",which is not true but Bà, Úbà, or Àbà. Baba is grandfather in the real Yoruba lexicon of old,even in spoken dialects, these three; Bà, Úbà, or Àbà are used interchangeably. One thing that is clear, is that wherever shared words are found to be shared by different groups, such words are either transferred/taught to the new learner(s) or the the speakers are among the migrants to the new location,where such words may have been stretched away from its original form.
The point here is that Bowen didnt use this standard technique to see if his views were either of the two reasons but lumped them together. Linguistically, one can't use few words to determine language connection/similarity or but must be carefully verify. In fact, some words shared can be as a result of coincidence ,which is due to contraction. No one can say because, Tapa,Ibo,Edo etc have shared words with Yorubas,then they are the same stock! Absolutely untrue.My ancestors came with “Ébì”and I will recognise this as the basis for my connection to others. Despite close affinity amongst the speakers among the Semitic languages, Western researchers differentiated these languages as well as the borrowed words amongst the speakers, what does this tell you and I ? As far as I am concern, Bowen wasn't the only one whose opinion drifted to such perspective, which was the reason I mentioned Conton too.But didn't proof anything because as at this period, ancient Hebrew's language has not being critically established as it has been done today.
Since, it has been established that to group language family must be based on the actual attempts to find "cognates" with acceptable and considerable semantic leeway, and that this greatly increases the chance of random matches.
It will be helpful to see just what a semantic leeway of 10 or 100 meanings looks like.Using the list of Yorubas words seen below,then they may be of the same stock:

1.Father: Bà,Ùbà,Àbà
2. Mother: ìyè,Iyà
3.Head:Èrì,Orì
4. Today: Éenì,Onì
5. Fire: ìná
6. Individual,I,one person: éèní
7. Sun:orùn
8. Town:Ìlú
9. Alive,living
10.Poverty: Rì'eshé
11.Èbì: family

Endless list but the above is a starter.

The so called people, that have tried to fused Yoruba,Ewe,Ga, Fon,Ibos, Tapa, etc as same stock ought to have started with the list above.

Note: I have no hatred for any group but let us call a spade a spade.


Cheers

x

0balufonlll:
Araba Agbaye at Oke Itase family compound in Ile-Ife.



The emboldened is not true. Baba is father while Baba nla Baba is grandfather in old Yoruba. In modern Yoruba Baba is still father while Baba Baba is grandfather. I should add that Ba and Ye are short/slang version of Baba and Yeye (both referring to father & mother respectively).

[Quote] One thing that is clear, is that wherever shared words are found to be shared by different groups, such words are either transferred/taught to the new learner(s) or the the speakers are among the migrants to the new location,where such words may have been stretched away from its original form. The point here is that Bowen didnt use this standard technique to see if his views were either of the two reasons but lumped them together. Linguistically, one can't use few words to determine language connection/similarity or but must be carefully verify. In fact, some words shared can be as a result of coincidence ,which is due to contraction

The emboldened explains the entire theory you are pushing.

No one can say because, Tapa,Ibo,Edo etc have shared words with Yorubas,then they are the same stock! Absolutely untrue.My ancestors came with “Ébì”and I will recognise this as the basis for my connection to others. Despite close affinity amongst the speakers among the Semitic languages, Western researchers differentiated these languages as well as the borrowed words amongst the speakers, what does this tell you and I ? As far as I am concern, Bowen wasn't the only one whose opinion drifted to such perspective, which was the reason I mentioned Conton too.But didn't proof anything because as at this period, ancient Hebrew's language has not being critically established as it has been done today.

You are not related to Tapa & Edo but you are in the same ebi (family) as the Arab, Persians and so on? Interesting times we are in for sure.

Since, it has been established that to group language family must be based on the actual attempts to find "cognates" with acceptable and considerable semantic leeway, and that this greatly increases the chance of random matches.
It will be helpful to see just what a semantic leeway of 10 or 100 meanings looks like.Using the list of Yorubas words seen below,then they may be of the same stock:

1.Father: Bà,Ùbà,Àbà
2. Mother: ìyè,Iyà
3.Head:Èrì,Orì
4. Today: Éenì,Onì
5. Fire: ìná
6. Individual,I,one person: éèní
7. Sun:orùn
8. Town:Ìlú
9. Alive,living
10.Poverty: Rì'eshé
11.Èbì: family

To convince anyone with your attempt here you'll first have to state which of the Yoruba dialects you are employing to push your theory. Afterwards you'll have to identify the oldest Yoruba dialect and inform us if the dialect you have employed is the oldest. If we break those words you've listed above by region, you'll find that they are different from these ones you've presented to find a Hebrew origins. So, you see, sir, your theory is on shaky grounds.

Endless list but the above is a starter. The so called people, that have tried to fused Yoruba,Ewe,Ga, Fon,Ibos, Tapa, etc as same stock ought to have started with the list above. Note: I have no hatred for any group but let us call a spade a spade.
Cheers

Cheers, Olukumi.

Hahaha, so you don't know Bà bà was for grandfather or an elderly man ? Come of it bro.
First, the Yoruba dialects which include : Oyo ,Ekit,Egba,Ijebu ,Ondo,Ijesha,Aworis, Igbomina etc, the word for father is never baba but Ba,Uba,Aba. Baba was coined from bà bà to acknowledged elderly and it gradually became a part of the Yoruba lexicon and interchangeably for father.

Take for instance, a common saying, ‘Káàrè Bà mi,'
Káàrè bà is universal amongst Yoruba dialects, why is the saying not ,‘Káàrè Bàbà mi'?'
The saying is alien to Tapa and all groups you have mentioned

Secondly, I didn't disregard the link with the after mentioned groups up there because intermarriages existed between Yorbuba and many people but that Yoruba had a system that protected them in the past and in the future from muddling up with anyone else through their Ébì system.
Family system exist in Tapa and all the mentioned groups but it is not called Ébì because the word Ébì mean something different in their lexicons.

Thirdly, calling a spade is a spade is my kind of being. And I have no intention to making Yoruba feeling superior to anyone, once each group respect one and another. If ancient Hebrew lived aproximately 5000+ miles from Yorubaland,how did the language show same meaning ? Yet,Yoruba immediate neighbours dont share these strong words with yorubas. The point here is that, ‘Oùn tì o bá jó oùn là mà fì wè oùn'.

Fourthly, Àlà gbàrà ló, Àkónì ló. Hmmmm, may his soul rest in peace.

0balufonlll:
Araba Agbaye at Oke Itase family compound in Ile-Ife.



The emboldened is not true. Baba is father while Baba nla Baba is grandfather in old Yoruba. In modern Yoruba Baba is still father while Baba Baba is grandfather. I should add that Ba and Ye are short/slang version of Baba and Yeye (both referring to father & mother respectively).

[Quote] One thing that is clear, is that wherever shared words are found to be shared by different groups, such words are either transferred/taught to the new learner(s) or the the speakers are among the migrants to the new location,where such words may have been stretched away from its original form. The point here is that Bowen didnt use this standard technique to see if his views were either of the two reasons but lumped them together. Linguistically, one can't use few words to determine language connection/similarity or but must be carefully verify. In fact, some words shared can be as a result of coincidence ,which is due to contraction

The emboldened explains the entire theory you are pushing.

No one can say because, Tapa,Ibo,Edo etc have shared words with Yorubas,then they are the same stock! Absolutely untrue.My ancestors came with “Ébì”and I will recognise this as the basis for my connection to others. Despite close affinity amongst the speakers among the Semitic languages, Western researchers differentiated these languages as well as the borrowed words amongst the speakers, what does this tell you and I ? As far as I am concern, Bowen wasn't the only one whose opinion drifted to such perspective, which was the reason I mentioned Conton too.But didn't proof anything because as at this period, ancient Hebrew's language has not being critically established as it has been done today.

You are not related to Tapa & Edo but you are in the same ebi (family) as the Arab, Persians and so on? Interesting times we are in for sure.

Since, it has been established that to group language family must be based on the actual attempts to find "cognates" with acceptable and considerable semantic leeway, and that this greatly increases the chance of random matches.
It will be helpful to see just what a semantic leeway of 10 or 100 meanings looks like.Using the list of Yorubas words seen below,then they may be of the same stock:

1.Father: Bà,Ùbà,Àbà
2. Mother: ìyè,Iyà
3.Head:Èrì,Orì
4. Today: Éenì,Onì
5. Fire: ìná
6. Individual,I,one person: éèní
7. Sun:orùn
8. Town:Ìlú
9. Alive,living
10.Poverty: Rì'eshé
11.Èbì: family

To convince anyone with your attempt here you'll first have to state which of the Yoruba dialects you are employing to push your theory. Afterwards you'll have to identify the oldest Yoruba dialect and inform us if the dialect you have employed is the oldest. If we break those words you've listed above by region, you'll find that they are different from these ones you've presented to find a Hebrew origins. So, you see, sir, your theory is on shaky grounds.

Endless list but the above is a starter. The so called people, that have tried to fused Yoruba,Ewe,Ga, Fon,Ibos, Tapa, etc as same stock ought to have started with the list above. Note: I have no hatred for any group but let us call a spade a spade.
Cheers

Cheers, Olukumi.

Hahaha, so you don't know Bà bà was for grandfather or an elderly man ? Come of it bro.
First, the Yoruba dialects which include : Oyo ,Ekit,Egba,Ijebu ,Ondo,Ijesha,Aworis, Igbomina etc, never use baba but Ba,Uba,Aba. Baba was coined from bà bà to acknowledged elderly and it gradually became a part of the Yoruba lexicon and interchangeably for father. My father (bà mì/ùbà mì/àbà mì) ,your father (bà ré /ùbà ré/àbà ré)

Take for instance, a common saying, ‘Káàrè Bà mi,'
Káàrè bà is universal amongst Yoruba dialects, why is the saying not ,‘Káàrè Bàbà mi'?'
The saying is alien to Tapa and all groups you have mentioned

Secondly, I didn't disregard the link with the after mentioned groups up there because intermarriages existed between Yorbuba and many people but that Yoruba had a system that protected them in the past and in the future from muddling up with anyone else through their Ébì system.
Family system exist in Tapa and all the mentioned groups but it is not called Ébì because the word Ébì mean something different in their lexicons.

Thirdly, calling a spade is a spade is my kind of being. And I have no intention to making Yoruba feeling superior to anyone, once each group respect one and another. If ancient Hebrew lived aproximately 5000+ miles from Yorubaland,how did the language show same meaning ? Yet,Yoruba immediate neighbours dont share these strong words with yorubas. The point here is that, ‘Oùn tì o bá jó oùn là mà fì wè oùn'.

Finally, Bàbà ló, Àlà gbàrà ló, Àkónì ló. Hmmmm, may his soul rest in peace.

x

0balufonlll:
I anticipated this problem. You're selectively using terms that suit your theory. 'Baba' in old & modern Yoruba is father. Grandfather is Baba nla or Baba Baba. Like I stated previously, 'Ba' is a contraction/slang of Baba. Also, have you lived and done an extensive study on the old variations of the sub-groups emboldened or you just said what you think is? Also, which of these sub-group's dialect is the oldest and original, original enough to be used find solid traces to Hebrew? For illustration of contraction see Baale (compound head) is Baba ile, Baale (area chief) is Baba ile. It also reflects in the contraction of Beeni to Be and so on.



You did not know 'Ebi' is an Oyo Yoruba word, did you? Since Ife use 'Ikatun/Eku' for family, I am guessing it is Oyo that is related to Hebrew then? 'Ebi' as a word was an Oyo Yoruba word that has infiltrated dialect of other sub-groups. The same way Aafin is an Oyo word while for Ife it is Aofin. Sir, you'll have to do a thorough study to dig lexicon of each sub group and words they borrowed from where to convince serious people with serious questions. You'll be surprised from your study that you've employed Oyo Yoruba originated words which are very recent to argue connection with a foreign culture.



You are the only person (and your co-thinkers) who think Hebrew and Yoruba share language. The basis of posting Bowen's pages up there was to show Yoruba words can be found across several languages across the world and several languages across the world can be found in Yoruba.

Quite funny with your analysis of Baba Ìlè because it doesnt exist. In all my research on intriquing yoruba word list, there is no where in Yoruba lexicon that Baba Ilè(HUSBAND) exist but Báàlè as Husband. I understand Énì à àbà nì o báà nì orì'lé ( Báàlé ). This simply mean the first settler,especially princes,hunters,noble families etc as the pioneer leader on the land.Honestly, I doubt your proficiency on yoruba language, because you misinterprete a simple yoruba lexicon.
Secondly, IKATUN/EKU are used interchangeably for Ébì,and not Oyo's word. The same way Ihare (Ahare) is interchageably used for Agba in ILEIFE and other places. Afterall, Oranmiyan was born in ILEIFE and came back to ILEIFE .So,there is nothing like Oyo's word list .The only crime on Ajayi's Crowther is the misrepresentation of other Yorubas at the detriment of Oyos.
Again studies have been done on all Yoruba speakers enclave and it has been proven that they all speak the same language but variant dialects. Each Yoruba from all corners are intelligible amongst the Yoruba speakers ,except IGALA that speak 60%+ which didn't make it as a Yoruba dialect because for a language to be same ,it need be 70% intelligible.

Lastly, The ‘Káàrè O bà mì', is the last part in my ORIKI....I guess, you have a clue about it.

x

0balufonlll:
You could just say you do not know about compound head rather than say it does not exist. Where I am from, every family compound has Baba Ile - Baale (compound head, usually the oldest man) folliwed by Loogun (usually a Youth). They organize monthly family meetings at the family compound. While we are all Yoruba & share similarities across board, there are also core elements to each sub-group that is alien to the other. I am sure in your place, there are words & practices alien to mine. You may doubt my proficiency in Yoruba language, that is legitimate. Just don’t doubt my proficiency in Ife language



Ikatun/Eku became used interchangeably when a standardized Yoruba that cut across board developed. There are a lot words original to your subgroup that have now been replaced with the standard/national Yorubabor used interchangeably. Ihare’fe is Otun Ife, Isoro Ife is Osi Ife both groups make up Agba Ife, don’t make that mistake baba. Let me give you a good example of variances in sub-groups political kini Iharefe is Ife while Oyomesi is Oyo. They play different roles in each kingdom even though they look like they should serve the same purposes from first look of it. It is Ogboni in Oyo, Osugbo in Ijebu but it is Mole in Ife. If you mentioned Mole to Oyo or Ijebu they will not understand but mention it to an Ife, e go grab. So each group has its indigenous lexicon and operational term which mean the same things.

You still mixed it up. Baba ilè is different from Báàlè because the former is referring to the oldest in the family. You tricked me, because you didn't put accent on it . Baba Ilè cut across nearly all Yoruba land.
Molè is used in IFE and Eastward part and other suburb of Yoruba land.



Cheers

x

0balufonlll:
Baale is what we call it here; a contraction of Baba Ile. I didn’t trick you, I assumed you would figure it out regardless of the accents. At least you now see we have regional differences but group differences. Within each region there are still core differences.

Cheers, fam.

All well and good. If you critically check the bone of contention, it still boils down to same. Funny enough, you will be amazed at words that can not be coincidental except the speakers did carried them along to the new found words.
Do you know the 10 words I listed earlier had same meaning witth Semitic of ancient Hebrew? What ever word you can imagine in the list I posted earlier equates with ancient Hebrew.
I had no intention to link Yoruba with any group as it relates to linguistic except what I have found. Revelation is what's called.

Trust me,it will shock you.

Respect Fam.

0balufonlll:
No, Adimula wasn't Oduduwa's real name.

Olofin adimula... Oduduwa....

nice work here ..i really enjoy reading this brilliant thread ..we need the awos here ..i think i will invite babalowo into this forum

Obalufon:
Olofin adimula... Oduduwa....

What are you implying, my brother?

0balufonlll:
What are you implying, my brother?

Well ,to my own little knowledge ""I maybe wrong"" i believe Oduduwa is a title ..Olofin Adimula was given a title of Oduduwa due to his ability to unite and bring all the 16 elders of the earliest Ife under his rule..

What is the difference between Oduduwa in creation and Oduduwa the king... Also Ogun the king and Ogun the first deity/Angel that paved way for other orisas to earth

Obalufon:
Well ,to my own little knowledge ""I maybe wrong"" i believe Oduduwa is a title .Olofin Adimula was given a title of Oduduwa due to his ability to unite and bring all the 16 elders of the earliest Ife under his rule..

-

Obalufon:
What is the difference between Oduduwa in creation and Oduduwa the king... Also Ogun the king and Ogun the first deity/Angel that paved way for other orisas to earth

-

0balufonlll:
Deities Oduduwa & Ogun pre-existed the human Oduduwa & Ogun among the people of old. They already imagined deity of creation & deity of war and other things natural & within human purview. However, the people of old also began to immortalize notable humans by pegging them to their deities or creating new deities for them.

Deity Oduduwa created earth. It is the bottom half of the spherical earth while Obatala is the upper half of the spherical bowl. While Obatala created humans, Oduduwa created earth.

The human Oduduwa (Osin Ora) was an Ife guy who plotted coup with certain families & usurped a structure that had long been on ground.

Of course, the duality or opposing nature between Oduduwa deity & Obatala deity was extended to Osin Ora & Orisa.

Deity Ogun to people of old is the god of war & blood shed. Note that war before iron was discovered was fought by non-iron means.

Human Ogun was the earliest to work Iron. This changed the war game & of course in Ife history, Ogun was Oduduwa’s team and the use of iron to fight the usurpation war was to the credit of Ogun. Ogun’s old tools are still in the site upon which the present palace is located.

Consequently, Ogun the human was given a hub in
Ogun the deity. Both benefitting from each other in stories wrapped around them as 1 fgure.

There were some culture heroes that did not have a deity to be fitted into & as a result spirirual stories emerged about them. For instance Obalufon 1 & 2, Oranmiyan & mostly founders of Yoruba kingdoms such as Orangun, Owa Obokun, Lagelu, Ogunfunminire & so on.

Good one bro... I like your mind..

0balufonlll:
Araba Agbaye at Oke Itase family compound in Ile-Ife.

May his soul rest in peace.

0balufonlll:
Deities Oduduwa & Ogun pre-existed the human Oduduwa & Ogun among the people of old. They already imagined deity of creation & deity of war and other things natural & within human purview. However, the people of old also began to immortalize notable humans by pegging them to their deities or creating new deities for them.

Deity Oduduwa created earth. It is the bottom half of the spherical earth while Obatala is the upper half of the spherical bowl. While Obatala created humans, Oduduwa created earth.

Who deified the pre existing Oduduwa and Ogun?

MetaPhysical:
Who deified the pre existing Oduduwa and Ogun?

That is similar to asking who deified Olodumare.

0balufonlll:
Oduduwa is a nickname alright. Iwa in old Ife/Yoruba is similar to Apere/Opo that is throne or leadership. Oduduwa may have been Odu to du Iwa - the Odu that contested leadership? Looking at the history around him, he did contest for leadership in Ife, strongly.

Olofin means Alaafin. It is the Ife’s dialect of that word. While Oyo & the standardized Yoruba use Aafin, Ife calls it Aofin. In other words Olofin Adimula means Alaafin Adimula.

Which brings me to your theory emboldened above.

It is a known fact among ‘Ife’ that Osin Ora suffered a divided town and his rulership was a mess because it greatly challenged in all quarters.

[& I do not mean just all Ife indigenes but Ife indigenes that are active in the rituals, festivals, awo, etutu, ebo, mole to mention a few].

Ife only settled after his death [contrary to popular romanticized narratives, Osin Ora did not live very long as a result of the endless rebellions he had to keep putting up with] & the town further stopped warring when one of the Ife elders from the Obatala group in person of Osangangan Obamakin followed by Obalufon l & ll took over.

In fact, this problem was serious such that Mr. Ogun who was on Oduduwa’s team was expelled from Ife & his abode (present day palace site) was overtaken after Oduduwa died.

So, no, Osin Ora aka Oduduwa did not enjoy the power he usurped and he certainly did not unite his faction & the dissident faction. His period almost consumed Ife. If anyone should be attributed with uniting/unifying Ife 13 communities then it should be Obalufon the second, he did things to carry both groups along and most importantly left powers in the hands of the valley settlers [13 communities] who also jointly directed the affairs of Ife.

So we may have to look for another reason Osin Ora was called ‘Adimula’ if indeed the cognomen began with him.

Osin/Osi didn't leave long? .Quite funny with this kind of narrative,because Susan Blier,wrote something close to this. If you are sure,then you must be willing to give out information on the exact age he died because this information is incoherent. Otun Ekiti played a role in the life of Odua. Isn't it true?
I can see your touch on Obalufon as a savior, who brought peace into the land of IFE. This is actually improper bro because it is incorrect. Be it as it may, I will ignore his personality because I have respect for Obalufon 1st and 2nd.

Secondly, I need to correct this, so that distortion wont be. Ooni as a title was a word that started with Odua and not Obalufon .

Thirdly, Adimunia/Adumila is pratically part of Odua panegyric and not a nickname of his,nor his name as you can see in the panegyric of his descendants.

On a last note, please sir, Can you shed more light on your knowledge on the meaning of Adimula and the probable etymology of it? Or is it not a Yoruba word?


Cheers

x

MetaPhysical:
May his soul rest in peace.

Aworeni adisa may his soul rest in perfect ..

0balufonlll:
That is similar to asking who deified Olodumare.

Give me a rough sketch of Yoruba cosmos. You spoke of two halves of a container, one in heaven the other on earth. What are the divine heirarchies of heaven and of earth? Outside the container are there other worlds or not?

Place Eledumare, is he enveloped in the container or is his realm beyond it?

Then give a place for the deified copies of Oduduwa and Ogun, are they in the container or beyond it?

x

0balufonlll:
The earth is regarded as a calabash with the top half being Obatala & the bottom being Oduduwa. I think the idea of ‘heaven’ being the sky is a Christian thing. Yoruba do not necessarily regard heaven as the sky (this is in reference to the top bowl you said is in heaven). The divine hierachy begins with Olodumare followed by Obatala alamo rere tin m’ori eni; then Orun mila the eleri ipin and the rest. I’m not sure about the earth based divinity that did not originate from orun. And to my knowledge Yoruba cosmos is silent about other worlds. All of this is subject to vary by region influenced by historical experiences & environmental demands.



Olodumare is beyond this igba.



By deified Oduduwa & Ogun I am guessing you meant the human version of these personalities? If yes, they are regarded to be in this container. Every human Obatalan created co-existed with every divinity from heaven inside this igba.

Is heaven same as Yoruba Orun?

Could the phenomenal interpretation or applicable sense of heaven be "realm"?
As in,
the heaven of our fathers....
"the realm of our fathers"....


Could heaven, or heafen, or hafen be cognate for Yoruba's Aafin, Aofin? Alaafin, the owner of a realm!

0balufonlll:
The earth is regarded as a calabash with the top half being Obatala & the bottom being Oduduwa. I think the idea of ‘heaven’ being the sky is a Christian thing. Yoruba do not necessarily regard heaven as the sky (this is in reference to the top bowl you said is in heaven). The divine hierachy begins with Olodumare followed by Obatala alamo rere tin m’ori eni; then Orunmila the eleri ipin and the rest. I’m not sure about the earth based divinity that did not originate from orun. And to my knowledge Yoruba cosmos is silent about other worlds. All of this is subject to vary by region influenced by historical experiences & environmental demands.



Olodumare is beyond this igba.


By deified Oduduwa & Ogun I am guessing you meant the human version of these personalities? If yes, they are regarded to be in this container. Every human Obatalan created co-existed with every divinity from heaven inside this igba.

Anytime you have half of a whole you possess a magnetic charge capable of dynamic motion or force of energy for animation in a unidirectional vector.

When you possess two halves of a whole the animation is omni-directional.

Acting as halves, Obatala's effects will result in blindspots, similarly with Oduduwa's. In combination, their alliance produces a totality from which none escapes.

If Eledumare is beyond Igba, he is therefore beyond the elements of animation. He is beyond any similarity with those under the influence of animation. Questions cannot be asked regarding his divination.

However, for those like Obatala and Oduduwa who existed as gods inside the animated world, questions must be asked.

So ill ask the original question that, who gave divine authority to Obatala and Oduduwa....who made them deities?

0balufonlll:
In which of Blier’s works? If she really wrote that then she did a thorough job.

Asking me to give information on the age he died is like having someone ask you to give age your great grandfather passed. We both know age became a thing of record when Europeans made it a thing here. What I’ll say is, if you initiate Oduduwa & pursue a research on it, you will find that a good number of kings claiming Oduduwa links today lied. I’m not saying Otun lied nor his is claim false. What holds true in Ife, acknowledged by all groups & reflects in Idio compound/temple is the early demise of Oduduwa. For pointers, you will have to investigate why he is called ‘Afenwonro’ thoroughly.

Obalufon Alayemore is remembered in Ife today for the stability he effected. The role he played when his wife Omoremi engineered the capture of Ugbos & the diplomacy that followed.

Fam, your reaction made me chuckle. Is your ‘knowledge’ on this matter sourced from within Ife or you hold persoective from an outsider’s angle? I ask because you used words such as incoherent, improper, incorrect. I am not saying Ife verson is the ultimate but everything I said is what holds in Ile-Ife; you do know approaching it with data from outside of Ife would be some sort of conflictual.



Lol bruh, you are killing me. OK so what is the etymology of Ooni that made it start with Oduduwa or how did it start with him?
It appears you do not know or you forgot that nicknames make up panegyrics & vice versa?



Baba na you we go ask if it is not a Yoruba word o, you know say you be Hebrew. You could just enlighten us about its Hebrew origins ya know?. I already shared the minute knowledge I have on Adimula earlier on the thread sir.

You see, the distortion is the problem with Yoruba history ,especially among the incoherent information. Do you even know a white man was an initiate at one time or the other in IFE history? If people who are supposed to do the right do the right thing but ignore to do the right thing,then , the chosen ones of God, will reveal the hidden information because Èlèfumarè has record of everyone in the past,present and the future.
Whoever told you odua died young lied. This is because, his first son left IFE as a prince to found his own kingdom. Even a grandson,known later as O bù okún fetched the atlantic to cure the blindness of Odua in the presence of Óoré Otun. The same Ótun that vehemently disconnect his own lineage from Odua from beginning because Odua welcome him and his group to his kingdom. So, there is iota of truth in this information . In as much that you could not provide the exact age that Odua died ,then my information stand unopposed. Trust me you and I have no clue.

Secondly,Odua wasnt Obamakin's contemporary but Obatàlà's . And Obàmàmàkin was Ogùn Onìrè's ( Óo nì rè),that was chased away and became brutal ,thereafter.After, he was chased away and died somewhere in Shakì, Oranmiyan came. Before Oranmiyan came, he had been chased away stylishly by Obalufon 1st, but unfortunately for Obatala's group,he was chased to become well experienced. And when he returned ,he restored his ancestor's throne and civil war ensued.Today,the divine kings are the Odua's descendants. I am sure you know the adage, tì òwò òmòdèdè o bà té ékù'dà ,ko nì bèrè ìkù to pà bà ré. This was the second time of the struggle of IFÉ's throne. After Oranmiyan died, Obalufon 2nd returned to plead with people to make peace. And thereafter, Oranmiyan's descendants and his older family relatives stood against the fall of IFE.

Thirdly, a lot of kings are related to Odua because, it is either through maternal side or paternal. Funny enough the odua descedants are the ones with multiple twins and multiple birth. Dont ask why because Oluigbo has an account.

Fourthly, I have Ife's knowledge on this and Ife's knowledge isn't the only group that have knowledge on the exploit of Oranmiyan in Oyo except through áàróbà.So don't make it look as if all Yoruba history or Ife's history is solely one sided.

Fifthly,can you give account of all the names of kings before Odua? I dare you

Lastly, even you as a person do not realise,a particular exploit and nicknames are unique to some families.This is the reason Ìgùn mean something differenr to Obalufon and Odua descendants.On the etymology, I am looking for the people like you to explain the etymology too. I keep mute on it for now.

Olu317:
You see, the distortion is the problem with Yoruba history ,especially among the incoherent information. Do you even know a white man was an initiate at one time or the other in IFE history? If people who are supposed to do the right do the right thing but ignore to do the right thing,then , the chosen ones of God, will reveal the hidden information because Èlèfumarè has record of everyone in the past,present and the future.
Whoever told you odua died young lied. This is because, his first son left IFE as a prince to found his own kingdom. Even a grandson,known later as O bù okún fetched the atlantic to cure the blindness of Odua in the presence of Óoré Otun. The same Ótun that vehemently disconnect his own lineage from Odua from beginning because Odua welcome him and his group to his kingdom. So, there is iota of truth in this information . In as much that you could not provide the exact age that Odua died ,then my information stand unopposed. Trust me you and I have no clue.

Secondly,Odua wasnt Obamakin's contemporary but Obatàlà's . And Obàmàmàkin was Ogùn Onìrè's ( Óo nì rè),that was chased away and became brutal ,thereafter.After, he was chased away and died somewhere in Shakì, Oranmiyan came. Before Oranmiyan came, he had been chased away stylishly by Obalufon 1st, but unfortunately for Obatala's group,he was chased to become well experienced. And when he returned ,he restored his ancestor's throne and civil war ensued.Today,the divine kings are the Odua's descendants. I am sure you know the adage, tì òwò òmòdèdè o bà té ékù'dà ,ko nì bèrè ìkù to pà bà ré. This was the second time of the struggle of IFÉ's throne. After Oranmiyan died, Obalufon 2nd returned to plead with people to make peace. And thereafter, Oranmiyan's descendants and his older family relatives stood against the fall of IFE.

Thirdly, a lot of kings are related to Odua because, it is either through maternal side or paternal. Funny enough the odua descedants are the ones with multiple twins and multiple birth. Dont ask why because Oluigbo has an account.

Fourthly, I have Ife's knowledge on this and Ife's knowledge isn't the only group that have knowledge on the exploit of Oranmiyan in Oyo except through áàróbà.So don't make it look as if all Yoruba history or Ife's history is solely one sided.

Fifthly,can you give account of all the names of kings before Odua? I dare you

Lastly, even you as a person do not realise,a particular exploit and nicknames are unique to some families.This is the reason Ìgùn mean something differenr to Obalufon and Odua descendants.On the etymology, I am looking for the people like you to explain the etymology too. I keep mute on it for now.

Ìgùn mean

Obalufon:
Ìgùn mean

Kindly check,what Ìgùn is in the panegyric of Obalufon descendants, at Éfon Àlàayè . Perhaps, you will understand the bitterness of the foundation of that town,when he Obalufon 2nd was pushed out of IFE.


Note: I don't desire to wash my dirty linen in the public but I detest distortion. Even alter the death of Oranmiyan, his sword became the emblem of unification. This only showed his strength and glory bestowed upon him through his ancestor's God known as Èlèdùmàrè.