₦airaland Forum

CAPTIVATOR:
Begotten is to be produced by someone


Only begotten indicates. Only one of its kind . Isaac is the only begotten son. Because he is the only one produced for Abraham by his own wife Sarah .


How was Jesus produced that make him only begotten among other creations ( Sons of God ) produced like him ?

OneJ:
Isaac is the only begotten son of Abraham, likewise Jesus is God's only begotten son. God Almighty is forever above Jesus Christ ,likewise Abraham above Isaac.

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon.
"mono genes"
definition.

1) Single of its kind only
( a) used only of sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents).
( b) used of Jesus Christ,denotes the only begotten son of God.

Source: https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/Greek/nas/monogenes.html

Only begotten son is strictly for father or parents/ child relationship.

In a nutshell , Jesus is the son of Jehovah/ Yahweh, the Most High God.
It is from this Father and son relationship he attained the special status of becoming God's only begotten son.


"Begotten" (verb)
1) Past participle of beget.

"Beget"
(1) To father
(2) To cause or create.

Source:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/begotten

If U wanna deceive yourself & lie to yourself,pls do so at your own risk.

alBHAGDADI:
The phrase "only begotten" doesn't mean Abraham's son with Sarah. You have no right to insert that in there. God is not the author of confusion. He knew Abraham had another son, yet He said "only begotten son". What if Abraham picked Ishmael instead of Isaac? After all Ishmael is the first son he had. It won't have bee. Abraham's fault had it been he picked Ishmael. To avoid such, God would have clearly stated that it is the son he has with Sarah He's talking about. But God knew Abraham won't make the mistake of picking Ishmael when He meant Isaac. How do I mean? He knew Abraham knew Isaac is the child God promised to him. Isaac is the child of his old age. He had Isaac when his wife was well past menopause. The child was born. miraculously. That's what makes the child so unique.

So, when God used the term only begotten son, Abraham quickly recognized it was his unique son Isaac, not the other one Ishmael.

OneJ:
Pls stop being clever by half.
In the Greek manuscript ( the New Testament) "only begotten" is right there in John 1: 14,18. John 3:16 & 1 John 4:9, Hebrew 11:17.
It is very much in order. Pls don't get it twisted.

JWs are ardent students of the holy scriptures.. them dey try..

Besides, with out regard to his circumstances of his birth, Isaac is the son of Abraham.
If him no be him father Abraham pikin at all, nothing special go reach Isaac hand.
Comprehende ?

.


Long in advance, while he was in heaven, before he was born on earth, Baba God already identified Jesus as his son. "For to us a child is born, for to us a son is given....." Isaiah 9:6, Prov 8:22-30. No be when Jesus come earth naim God start to dey call am Son. Even before Mary conceived & born am , the angel call am "the son of the Most High" Luke 1:31,32.

alBHAGDADI:
My purpose is to answer the Arian challenge by giving an airtight, scriptural proof for the deity of Jesus Christ. This technique is so simple you should be able to sketch it out on a napkin from memory the next time someone knocks on your door.

Remember, you don't have to master every counter-argument to every verse thrown at you. All you need is one unequivocal textual proof to make your case. Here it is. It comes from the Gospel of John.

Most discussions of this nature focus initially on John 1:1. It says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." That's the way your Bible reads. But the Jehovah's Witness's New World Translation renders the verse this way: "In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."

The heated discussion that follows is almost never productive. Don't waste your time wrestling with Greek grammar neither of you understand. Just drop down two verses. Verse three says, "All things came into being by Him [the Word], and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being." The NWT is virtually the same: All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence."

Have your visitor read the verse out loud. Then take out a napkin or a piece of scratch paper and draw a large box. Explaining that this box represents everything that exists. Run a line right through the middle of the box, dividing everything that exists into two categories. It will look something like this:

https://www.str.org/sites/str.org/files/images/article%20images/everything%20exists.png

On the left side write "all things that never came into being,"
that is, all things that exist but have never been created. Ask your friend, "What goes in that box?" If he says "God" he got the right answer. God is the only thing that exists that has never been created. God alone is eternal and uncreated. Put the word "God" in the left-hand side of your box.

Label the right side "all things that came into being," that is, all created things. Write "all created things" there. Everything in this box was created through Jesus, according to verse three. Ask your friend if he understands that. Now write "created through Jesus" outside the box and run an arrow to the right side. Your box should now look something like this:

https://www.str.org/sites/str.org/files/images/article%20images/everthingthatexists.png

Take a moment to point out to your guest how this illustration is structured. The larger box includes everything there is, was or ever will be. Each particular existent falls into one of two categories: created or not created.

According to the law of excluded middle either a thing was created or it wasn't created--there is no third option--so the categories are all-encompassing. According to the law of non-contradiction a thing can't be both created and not created, so the categories are mutually exclusive. Any particular thing has to be one or the other. It's very simple.

Next you're going to determine what category Jesus belongs in. Take a coin out of your pocket. Tell your guest this coin represents Jesus Christ. Hand him the coin and ask him to place Jesus in the category where He belongs.

The first impulse of a Jehovah's Witness, of course, is to place Jesus in the category of "all things that came into being" because that's what their theology dictates. In keeping with the teaching of Arius in the early fourth century, there was a time "when the Word was not." Jesus was the first created being and everything else was created by Jehovah through Jesus.
But John 1:3 doesn't allow that option. Look at the wording carefully. John says, "All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being," or in the NWT,"...and apart from him not even one thing came into existence" (emphasis mine).
John says the same thing two different ways for emphasis and clarity: everything that ever came into being owes its existence to Jesus, who caused it all to happen. If Jesus caused all created things to come into existence, then He must have existed before all created things
came into existence. Therefore, the Word could not have been created.

In other words, if Jesus created everything that has come into being, and Jesus also came into being (as they contend), then Jesus created Himself. He would have to exist as Creator before He existed as a created thing, which is absurd. Therefore, Jesus can't be placed in the square labeled, "all things that came into being."

Just a side note. Much is made of the Greek word dia , translated "by" in the first phrase, but can also be translated "through." But it makes no difference whether all things were created "by" Jesus or "through" Jesus with Jehovah as the agency (as the Witnesses suggest). The point is that in either case Jesus is existing before the creation of all things that ever came into being.

So, the coin can't be placed on the right. At this point your visitor may want to place Jesus somewhere on the paper outside the larger box. But, as we've seen, you can't do that. These categories are all-encompassing and mutually exclusive; there's no "place" outside to put Him. Everything goes on one side of the larger box or the other.

If Jesus can't be placed on the right side with created things, then He must go on the left with uncreated things, identifying Jesus as the uncreated Creator. Jesus is God.

https://www.str.org/publications/deity-of-christ-case-closed

damosky12:
Excellent material. Why would anyone read this and still be dishonest with the glaring and lucid picture of the unquestionable deity of Christ.

CAPTIVATOR:
Son of the Most High . good you admit.

Son of the Most High IS NOT the Most High .




Ignorance !

Is Jesus the God of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob that calls himself "I AM THAT I AM " in KJV ?

alBHAGDADI:
Another proof of the falsehood and Antichrist ways of JW is how they attack Jesus Christ's words by telling lies. They claim there is no hell fire and that sinners seize to exist after judgement, meaning they will be annihalted. However, examine the words of Jesus, one can see how much of a liar JW are.

Jesus makes a dark appraisal of the fate of His betrayer: “It would have been good for that man if he had not been born” (Matt. 26:24).

How does Jesus’ comment square with annihilationism?
If Judas had not been born, then he would not exist. If he were annihilated in judgment, then he would not exist. The last condition would be the same as the first. How could the first be “good,” then, by comparison?

Can you now see how much of a liar they are?

@barristter07 @OneJ @Tatime come and refute this.

alBHAGDADI:
I answered by providing a question which when you reply you will get your answer from.

alBHAGDADI:
The phrase "only begotten" doesn't mean Abraham's son with Sarah. You have no right to insert that in there. God is not the author of confusion. He knew Abraham had another son, yet He said "only begotten son". What if Abraham picked Ishmael instead of Isaac? After all Ishmael is the first son he had. It won't have bee. Abraham's fault had it been he picked Ishmael. To avoid such, God would have clearly stated that it is the son he has with Sarah He's talking about. But God knew Abraham won't make the mistake of picking Ishmael when He meant Isaac. How do I mean? He knew Abraham knew Isaac is the child God promised to him. Isaac is the child of his old age. He had Isaac when his wife was well past menopause. The child was born. miraculously. That's what makes the child so unique.

So, when God used the term only begotten son, Abraham quickly recognized it was his unique son Isaac, not the other one Ishmael.

He has tried to educate you but see yourself now . to burst your lies at bold, Ishmael is no longer in Abraham's compound . Isaac was the Only son in his compound at the time . and only one from Sarah . so Abraham understand .

Only begotten has the word " Begotten " in it , How was Jesus begotten ?



A) we know Isaac was begotten by sexual intercourse .

B) how was Jesus Begotten Sir ?

OneJ:
Half truth = LIE.

Begotten is the past participle of beget.
Beget
1). To father
2) To cause or create.

"Yahweh produced me at the beginning of his works"...
The Lord Yahweh brought me forth as the first of his works before his deeds of old... when there were no oceans, I was given birth...... when he marked out the foundations of the earth. Then I was the craftsman at his side".
Prov 8:22-30.

Abraham is the father of Isaac in the same manner that Jesus called Yahweh his Father.

alBHAGDADI, pls keep lying.

Barristter07:
Cc: Captivator

He has tried to educate you but see yourself now . to burst your lies at bold, Ishmael is no longer in Abraham's compound . Isaac was the Only son in his compound at the time . and only one from Sarah . so Abraham understand .

Only begotten has the word " Begotten " in it , How was Jesus begotten ?



A) we know Isaac was begotten by sexual intercourse .

B) how was Jesus Begotten Sir ?

Barristter07:
Cc: Captivator

He has tried to educate you but see yourself now . to burst your lies at bold, Ishmael is no longer in Abraham's compound . Isaac was the Only son in his compound at the time . and only one from Sarah . so Abraham understand .

Only begotten has the word " Begotten " in it , How was Jesus begotten ?



A) we know Isaac was begotten by sexual intercourse .

B) how was Jesus Begotten Sir ?

Barristter07:
If you don't understand a thing ask instead of forming irrelevant and silly postulations.

Here is your answer :


Ecclesiastes 4:2-3 English Standard Version (ESV)

2 And I thought the dead who are already dead more fortunate than the living who are still alive. 3 But BETTER than both is he who has not yet been and has not seen the evil deeds that are done under the sun.

[ Emphasis Mine]

It would have been good if that man wasn't born because he won't see the evil deeds done under the sun, seeing that Evil led him to. Commit evil and inherit a Bad Goodwill associated with his name, he won't have had this bad mark if he wasn't born.

Next time think before you talk


Next ...

alBHAGDADI:
Don't you get it?

Yes, when a man has not been born, he is better than those who are alive and those who are dead because he is yet to experience the evil of this world.
[s]
If we go by your JW theology of annihilation [/s] , then he has something in common with the dead: they both don't exist.

Barristter07:
They both don't exist but.one is better of since there is no mark of evil on him


Judas Iscariot carries the tag of " Betrayal " , but if he had not been.born, he won't have gotten that evil mark .

Next

Barristter07:
They both don't exist but.one is better of since there is no mark of evil on him


Judas Iscariot carries the tag of " Betrayal " , but if he had not been.born, he won't have gotten that evil mark .

Next

damosky12:
Son of the most high where? Admit what ? By saying what? Did you aim your reply at my post or you were too lazy to read or comprehend my post?

Read my post well and reply me line for line.... Stop being superficial.

Go through my post well, be educated... If you have issues with it, CLEARLY highlight the issues line for line...


Ignorance? . That's like your nick name.

alBHAGDADI:
Do you think a dead man who doesn't exist anymore, according to your JW annihilation theology, would be worried about a bad name? He's now currently in the same state as someone who is not yet born, which means they both don't exist.

But if Jesus said woe unto the Judas and that it would have been better if he was not born, then it means his state after death would be awful. This means his state at death is not the same as one who is not yet born. He will still exist but in terrible pain.

Either it's Jw theology or not , Reply the question on Jesus state after death if you get mind !

Barristter07:
Keep running around .

alBHAGDADI believes a man is an immortal soul housed in a body . the real person/personality is this soul , the body is just a house .

Which therefore means each person is immortal, they cannot die . what dies is their body .

A case study of Jesus - If we apply alBHAGDADI belives to Jesus, it means the real person/personality called Jesus is immortal, he never died . what dies is just the body he was housed

Hello, Do you now admit you don't believe Jesus died for anybody?

Barristter07:
Cc: Captivator

He has tried to educate you but see yourself now . to burst your lies at bold, Ishmael is no longer in Abraham's compound . Isaac was the Only son in his compound at the time . and only one from Sarah . so Abraham understand .

Only begotten has the word " Begotten " in it , How was Jesus begotten ?



A) we know Isaac was begotten by sexual intercourse .

B) how was Jesus Begotten Sir ?

Barristter07:
Cc : Captivator Note this reply

Is Jesus child of the.most High or not ?






You actually showed the ignorance by insisting on a translated word that had no bearing with the original meaning . " I will be what I will be " are good translations as well, But you will never agree because you want to make noise about " I AM " as used in KJ

Let's examine the context of Exodus 3:14, 15 in KJ to see if your claims add up .

Exodus 3:14-15 King James Version (KJV)


14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. [b]



[b] Clearly, the I AM is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob . damosky12, Proof your claim by telling if Jesus is the God of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob ?

alBHAGDADI:
I didn't say the body is just a house.
The soul and the body are what make up the person.

If the body is just a house and not really the person, then why did Jesus say both the body and soul will be destroyed in hell?

Why not just the soul since the body is just a house? It's just as you burning a man for a crime, then saying you want to burn hi is clothes too so that they will suffer for his crimes as well.

It was Jesus' physical death that was needed, not his spiritual death. His blood and body is what was needed, not his spiritual death. That body passed through the pain of scourging and crucifixion. If it was his spiritual death that was needed, he would have just died in heaven instead of coming to earth.

damosky12:
Excellent material. Why would anyone read this and still be dishonest with the glaring and lucid picture of the unquestionable deity of Christ.

alBHAGDADI:
Are you expecting a verse to expressly say God shared his glory? I've showed you were God said He's the First and the Last. Jesus Christ also referred to himself as the First and the Last. Can you claim to be such as a human being? Yet Jesus said such. Isn't that sharing God's glory? Can you share God's glory? Yet Jesus did.


You say none of the verses say God shared his glory. Part of God's glory is being a judge. The link below has different verses which show God to be a Judge.

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/God,-As-Judge

If he doesn't share His glory, how come He gave judgment to be done by Jesus?

“The Father…has GIVEN all judgment to the Son so that
all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father” (Jn. 5:22-23).

Look at the verses below too.

“I, even I, am the Lord; and there is no savior besides Me” (Is. 43:11).

“..by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ ” (2 Pet. 1:1).

Isn't Jesus equating himself with God?

Your colleague Tatime is saying Jesus is angel Michael. He quoted ambiguous verses to support the JW belief of Jesus being an angel. Now, let me apply the technic which you used, which is "nowhere is it written that God shared His glory". So, nowhere is it written that Jesus is Michael.

Can you now see how dumb and stupid your technic is?

Barristter07:






If this is true, then when the a person dies , the Body and soul must have died , agree ?



How can this be if the body doesn't survive death ? BOTH SHOULD SURVIVE DEATH !!!

Your theology's loopholes



You actually belived only the soul survives death , ARE YOU CONTRADICTING JESUS ?



No! You lied . Jesus promise to surrender his soul to death. [ Matthew 20:28]

How can he surrender an immortal soul that can't die for our sins ?

OneJ:
" Therefore, Jehovah/Yahweh the God of Israel, declares: .... those who honour me I will honour..." 1 Samuel 2:30

"if anyone would minister to me,the Father will honour him" John 12:26.

Going by your faulty claims on this thread, because Jesus shared in God's glory therefore he is God himself.
All those whom God honours are now God himself, because all of them are equals. Yes na !!!! U wanna deny ?

alBHAGDADI:
My purpose is to answer the Arian challenge by giving an airtight, scriptural proof for the deity of Jesus Christ. This technique is so simple you should be able to sketch it out on a napkin from memory the next time someone knocks on your door.

Remember, you don't have to master every counter-argument to every verse thrown at you. All you need is one unequivocal textual proof to make your case. Here it is. It comes from the Gospel of John.

Most discussions of this nature focus initially on John 1:1. It says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." That's the way your Bible reads. But the Jehovah's Witness's New World Translation renders the verse this way: "In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."

The heated discussion that follows is almost never productive. Don't waste your time wrestling with Greek grammar neither of you understand. Just drop down two verses. Verse three says, "All things came into being by Him [the Word], and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being." The NWT is virtually the same: All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence."

Have your visitor read the verse out loud. Then take out a napkin or a piece of scratch paper and draw a large box. Explaining that this box represents everything that exists. Run a line right through the middle of the box, dividing everything that exists into two categories. It will look something like this:

https://www.str.org/sites/str.org/files/images/article%20images/everything%20exists.png

On the left side write "all things that never came into being,"
that is, all things that exist but have never been created. Ask your friend, "What goes in that box?" If he says "God" he got the right answer. God is the only thing that exists that has never been created. God alone is eternal and uncreated. Put the word "God" in the left-hand side of your box.

Label the right side "all things that came into being," that is, all created things. Write "all created things" there. Everything in this box was created through Jesus, according to verse three. Ask your friend if he understands that. Now write "created through Jesus" outside the box and run an arrow to the right side. Your box should now look something like this:

https://www.str.org/sites/str.org/files/images/article%20images/everthingthatexists.png

Take a moment to point out to your guest how this illustration is structured. The larger box includes everything there is, was or ever will be. Each particular existent falls into one of two categories: created or not created.

According to the law of excluded middle either a thing was created or it wasn't created--there is no third option--so the categories are all-encompassing. According to the law of non-contradiction a thing can't be both created and not created, so the categories are mutually exclusive. Any particular thing has to be one or the other. It's very simple.

Next you're going to determine what category Jesus belongs in. Take a coin out of your pocket. Tell your guest this coin represents Jesus Christ. Hand him the coin and ask him to place Jesus in the category where He belongs.

The first impulse of a Jehovah's Witness, of course, is to place Jesus in the category of "all things that came into being" because that's what their theology dictates. In keeping with the teaching of Arius in the early fourth century, there was a time "when the Word was not." Jesus was the first created being and everything else was created by Jehovah through Jesus.
But John 1:3 doesn't allow that option. Look at the wording carefully. John says, "All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being," or in the NWT,"...and apart from him not even one thing came into existence" (emphasis mine).
John says the same thing two different ways for emphasis and clarity: everything that ever came into being owes its existence to Jesus, who caused it all to happen. If Jesus caused all created things to come into existence, then He must have existed before all created things
came into existence. Therefore, the Word could not have been created.

In other words, if Jesus created everything that has come into being, and Jesus also came into being (as they contend), then Jesus created Himself. He would have to exist as Creator before He existed as a created thing, which is absurd. Therefore, Jesus can't be placed in the square labeled, "all things that came into being."

Just a side note. Much is made of the Greek word dia , translated "by" in the first phrase, but can also be translated "through." But it makes no difference whether all things were created "by" Jesus or "through" Jesus with Jehovah as the agency (as the Witnesses suggest). The point is that in either case Jesus is existing before the creation of all things that ever came into being.

So, the coin can't be placed on the right. At this point your visitor may want to place Jesus somewhere on the paper outside the larger box. But, as we've seen, you can't do that. These categories are all-encompassing and mutually exclusive; there's no "place" outside to put Him. Everything goes on one side of the larger box or the other.

If Jesus can't be placed on the right side with created things, then He must go on the left with uncreated things, identifying Jesus as the uncreated Creator. Jesus is God.

https://www.str.org/publications/deity-of-christ-case-closed

barristter07 jozzy4 OneJ Tatime

I need your input here.

alBHAGDADI:
Mathew 20:28 doesn't say SOUL. It says LIFE. No version uses soul.

The body and soul make up the person.

When the person dies, the soul leaves, it goes to paradise for those who believe in Jesus, but to hell fire for those who don't.

But during the resurrection, the soul comes back into the body and is resurrected. That's when both are burnt and destroyed according to Jesus.

If the soul doesn't go on after death, then Jesus promise below to the thief would be a lie.

Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

But I know that JW have a different version of that verse in their NWT bible. They shifted the coma to be before TODAY. How come no other version of the Bible did that?

You guys wrote your own book to suit your point of view.

alBHAGDADI:
Mathew 20:28 doesn't say SOUL. It says LIFE. No version uses soul.

Una don check am .

His statement is a fulfilment of Isaiah 53:12 which says about the Messiah, he would

" poured out his soul to death and was numbered with the transgressors; "

Ogbeni, How can Jesus pour an immortal soul to death ?