blueAgent:



You are really funny.

You are trying hard to force meaning out of meanless words.

Was Mary married ro Jesus as Eve was married to Adam?

you are really funny because you just showed you didn't read the passage.

Now take your Bible and open gen 3:15, God tells us that unlike Adam and Eve, husband and wife whose tag team led to the fall, the new tag team by which God will create enmity with the devil shall be WOMAN AND HER OFFSPRING. Those are not meaningless words, they are God's word. That is how God was to reverse the old Adam stupidity, and the old Eve failure, there will be a new woman and man, not husband and wife but mother and son. The son according to Paul is the new Adam, the woman then is the new Eve since Adam and Eve failed together a woman and a man will be obedient to God and reverse that fall though not equally.

blueAgent:



So God is now a lair that will write something different in his book the Bible and still instruct people to teach doctrines contrary to it?


Romans 3:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.


Version (NKJV)
You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

you are the person who imagine that the writings of these early Christians are contradictory to the Bible, which they are not, they are only contradictory to your false interpretation of the Bible.


That is why the early church is totally different from the modern Protestant churches, you guys it seems are interpreting the text in a way that the original audience of the Bible will totally disagree with.

blueAgent:
Who made her Queen and Holy?

Ubenedictus:
heck that must be God.

Maybe you missed it in your Bible study so maybe later you can check it out.

The mother of the king in the davidic kingdom has the office of Queen mother in the Bible, from Beersheba downward... Every woman who gives birth to the davidic king is Queen mother. Not rocket science.

God prophesied and brought to manifestation that Jesus will be King in that dynasty
Luke 1
You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”
his mum is automatically Queen mother. No long story there.


As for holy, that is what we call people who as full of grace, who God is with, they can't be anything but holy.

Because it is written:
“Be holy, just as I also am holy.”
- 1 Peter 1:16

blueAgent:



I laugh at you typical sheepie.

Thats what you are told

I have seen this before, when you can't respond to a discussion you resort to ad hominems, it is both disgraceful and shameful. If you can't avoid the name calling then excuse yourself from the discussion.

blueAgent:





Bullshit .
you and your church are craftly at manipulating words to suit your fantasy.

Explain to me how you express worship to God

no dear, my church didn't write the Merriam Webster dictionary, we didn't manufacture the words nor did we manipulate it. I quoted what the dictionary says as regards veneration, if you disagree and want the words defined to tickle your fancy then you are out of luck or rather call the dictionary to help you.

Shouting bullshi or blaming the church because the dictionary doesn't favor you selective approach is pretty low.

I say the Hail Mary everyday.
Ronaldo does too.
Messi does too
Suarez does too
Sanchez does...
Over 50% of the global christian population do too.

MuttleyLaff:

I remember reading "Ogboju Ode Ninu Igbo Irunmọlẹ" and not "Ogboju Ode Ninu Igbo Olodumare"
Baba Fagunwa never wrote any book titled "Ogboju Ode Ninu Igbo Olodumare"

You are correct, muttly, thanks. My mix up of two of his books!

Fagunwa's book is "Ògbójú Ọdẹ nínú Igbó Irúnmalẹ̀". Do note, blueagent, please. You may also read his Igbo Olodumare.

MuttleyLaff:

"¹⁶All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
¹⁷That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
2 Timothy 3:16-17

Do these Orwell, Achebe and Adichie or even Nairaand's own OtemA, tick all the boxes in 2 Timothy 3:16-17 above?

Yes, they do tick the boxes in 2 Timothy 3:16-17. "Instruction in righteousness" afterall does not always come in the form, "thou shalt" or "thou shalt not".

Reading will expand understanding. And Otem's writings are most definitely worth the read, except a believer might not be able to read it objectively. Good recommendation though!

MuttleyLaff:


Because it is written:
“Be holy, just as I also am holy.”
- 1 Peter 1:16

But Mary herself never claimed to be Holy she acknownledge that she needs a Saviour.

Ubenedictus:
you are the person who imagine that the writings of these early Christians are contradictory to the Bible, which they are not, they are only contradictory to your false interpretation of the Bible.


That is why the early church is totally different from the modern Protestant churches, you guys it seems are interpreting the text in a way that the original audience of the Bible will totally disagree with.

Really? I can't believe this.

Ubenedictus:
you are really funny because you just showed you didn't read the passage.

Now take your Bible and open gen 3:15, God tells us that unlike Adam and Eve, husband and wife whose tag team led to the fall, the new tag team by which God will create enmity with the devil shall be WOMAN AND HER OFFSPRING. Those are not meaningless words, they are God's word. That is how God was to reverse the old Adam stupidity, and the old Eve failure, there will be a new woman and man, not husband and wife but mother and son. The son according to Paul is the new Adam, the woman then is the new Eve since Adam and Eve failed together a woman and a man will be obedient to God and reverse that fall though not equally.

Another Fallacy
And where is this explaination written in the Bible?

It is funny how you run to the Bible to pick verses out of context to support your false narrative but you reject same bible verses when do contracdict your oponion.

Ubenedictus:
heck that must be God.


Maybe you missed it in your Bible study so maybe later you can check it out.


The mother of the king in the davidic kingdom has the office of Queen mother in the Bible, from Beersheba downward... Every woman who gives birth to the davidic king is Queen mother. Not rocket science.

God prophesied and brought to manifestation that Jesus will be King in that dynasty
Luke 1
You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”
his mum is automatically Queen mother. No long story there.


As for holy, that is what we call people who as full of grace, who God is with, they can't be anything but holy.

Another fallacy.

Yale9:
now that u know there's one true mary.. where did you get your funny idea of "catholic mary" lest the "catholic mary" as u term it, is found in the quran

You are just a confused dude get hold of yourself.

MuttleyLaff:


"¹⁶All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
¹⁷That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
2 Timothy 3:16-17

Do these Orwell, Achebe and Adichie or even Nairaland's own OtemA, tick all the boxes in 2 Timothy 3:16-17 above?

I remember reading "Ogboju Ode Ninu Igbo Irunmọlẹ" and not "Ogboju Ode Ninu Igbo Olodumare"
Baba Fagunwa never wrote any book titled "Ogboju Ode Ninu Igbo Olodumare"

This is evidence that Wikipedia is not gospel
and why it always, has to be taken with a pinch of salt

Wikipedia got wires crossed with another book titled "Igbo Olodumare" (i.e. Forest of God)

No they don't

Ubenedictus:
no dear, my church didn't write the Merriam Webster dictionary, we didn't manufacture the words nor did we manipulate it. I quoted what the dictionary says as regards veneration, if you disagree and want the words defined to tickle your fancy then you are out of luck or rather call the dictionary to help you.

Shouting bullshi or blaming the church because the dictionary doesn't favor you selective approach is pretty low.

Which dictionary? stop lieing


Definition of worship in English:
worship
NOUN
1[mass noun] The feeling or expression of
reverence and adoration for a deity.
‘worship of the Mother Goddess’
‘ancestor worship’
More example sentences Synonyms
1.1 Religious rites or ceremonies,
constituting a formal expression of
reverence for a deity.
‘the church was opened for public worship’
More example sentences Synonyms
1.2 Great admiration or devotion shown
towards a person or principle.
‘the worship of celebrity and wealth’
More example sentences Synonyms
1.3archaic Honour given to someone in
recognition of their merit.
2(His/Your Worship) British [as title] Used in
addressing or referring to an important or high-
ranking person, especially a magistrate or
mayor.
‘we were soon joined by His Worship the
Mayor’
More example sentences

blueAgent:


You are just a confused dude get hold of yourself.

surely a question u could never ever answer. Judge yourself and then.. CRY! You really should

budaatum:

You don't understand that books are written by human beings and that they don't drop down from heaven. Reading more would help you put things you believe into some rational perspective and improve your intellectual abilities.

These books would specifically allow you to learn what fantasy is. After all, you aren't likely to believe Alice actually was in wonderland, or that Swedenborg really did go to heaven and then hell, despite his detailed description.

Starting with these would prepare you to read some more serious stuff, next year perhaps. Let me know how you get on now.

Its obvious you are a kid or just been naive.

I am sure i have more knownledge on different issues than you will ever acquire in 3 lifetimes.

Yale9:
check ur dictionary.. then slap yourself.

Why are running away from telling me what worship means?

Let me do expo for you

Definition of worship in English:
worship
NOUN
1[mass noun] The feeling or expression of
reverence and adoration for a deity.
‘worship of the Mother Goddess’
‘ancestor worship’
More example sentences Synonyms
1.1 Religious rites or ceremonies,
constituting a formal expression of
reverence for a deity.
‘the church was opened for public worship’
More example sentences Synonyms
1.2 Great admiration or devotion shown
towards a person or principle.
‘the worship of celebrity and wealth’
More example sentences Synonyms
1.3archaic Honour given to someone in
recognition of their merit.
2(His/Your Worship) British [as title] Used in
addressing or referring to an important or high-
ranking person, especially a magistrate or
mayor.
‘we were soon joined by His Worship the
Mayor’
More example sentences


https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/worship

Ubenedictus:
do you know that occultist and pagans still worship pagan gods which they claim the church rebranded and stole and call him Jesus? Even the pagans confirm that the doctrine of Jesus originate from them.



Do you believe the pagans and occultist now?

It was your Church that stole from pagans go and read about your Church history with an unbaised mind.

MuttleyLaff:

Because it is written: “Be holy, just as I also am holy.” - 1 Peter 1:16

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not

Yale9:
surely a question u could never ever answer. Judge yourself and then.. CRY! You really should

Synonyms of hero-worship in English:
hero-worship
See definition of hero-worship
NOUN
1‘the hero-worship of the fans gathered at the
airport’
SYNONYMS
idolization, adulation, admiration, idealization,
awe, high esteem, high regard, putting on a
pedestal
worship, adoration, glorification, exaltation,
veneration, reverence

Ubenedictus:
no dear, my church didn't write the Merriam Webster dictionary, we didn't manufacture the words nor did we manipulate it. I quoted what the dictionary says as regards veneration, if you disagree and want the words defined to tickle your fancy then you are out of luck or rather call the dictionary to help you.

Shouting bullshi or blaming the church because the dictionary doesn't favor you selective approach is pretty low.

Am not sure you know the meaning of Synonyms
This is from Oxford dictionary


Synonyms of worship in English:
worship
See definition of worship
NOUN
1‘the new Church rejected the worship of saints
and relics’
SYNONYMS
reverence, revering, worshipping, veneration,
venerating, adoration, adoring, -olatry, devotion,
praise, thanksgiving, praising, praying to,
glorification, glorifying, glory, exaltation, exalting,
extolment, extolling, homage, respect, honour,
honouring, esteem
dulia, latria
rare laudation, magnification
2‘morning worship’
SYNONYMS
service, church service, religious rite, religious
act, prayer, prayer meeting, praise, devotion,
religious observance
matins, morning prayer, vespers, evening prayer,
evensong
3‘he contemplated the pin-up with worship’
SYNONYMS
admiration, adulation, idolization, deification,
lionization, hero-worship
VERB
1‘they do not worship pagan gods’
SYNONYMS
revere, reverence, venerate, pay homage to,
honour, adore, praise, pray to, bow down before,
glorify, exalt, extol
be devoted to, dote on, love, hold dear, cherish,
treasure, admire, esteem, adulate, idolize, deify,
hero-worship, lionize, have a high regard for,
hold in high regard, hold in esteem, hold in awe,
look up to
informal be wild about, put on a pedestal
archaic magnify


https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/thesaurus/worship

Yale9:
I say the Hail Mary everyday.
Ronaldo does too.
Messi does too
Suarez does too
Sanchez does...
Over 50% of the global christian population do too.

Even if 100% of the World does it does not make it right with God.

James 4:4
Y e adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God?
whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

blueAgent:



Even if 100% of the World does it does not make it right with God.

James 4:4
Y e adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God?
whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

now rate yourself... and then CRY.. Cos u really should

You can never worship a person or a diety(as a god) WITHOUT THE INTENTION TO SO DO. And Catholics do not have any intention in the worship of Mary(as a God). So why not mind your business and get over the Catholic Chuch which is indeed the biggest Christian entity ..

blueAgent:


Its obvious you are a kid or just been naive.

I am sure i have more knownledge on different issues than you will ever acquire in 3 lifetimes.

You're the one who said you don't read! Were you lying?

Do know that the issue here is not about knowledge, but about understanding, which you have not really shown that you have!

blueAgent:
But Mary herself never claimed to be Holy she acknownledge that she needs a Saviour.

"Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men,
as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit"
- Ephesians 3:5

"Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling,
fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest."
- Hebrews 3:1

"For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy:
and if the root be holy, so are the branches."
- Romans 11:16

blueAgent:




Another fallacy.

did you learn this word newly?

Oya what type of fallacy did I commit?

Have you done your research or are you still speaking from ignorance.

Is the mother of the davidic king not the Queen mother?

Is Jesus not a King in that line?

blueAgent:



Another Fallacy
And where is this explaination written in the Bible?

It is funny how you run to the Bible to pick verses out of context to support your false narrative but you reject same bible verses when do contracdict your oponion.

oh sorry, you want to be spoon fed, the Bible already told you add one to one but you are still waiting for it to tell you two.

Sorry, the reversal of the old Adam and the old Eve sin is a mother and child, the child is Jesus, his mother is Mary, Jesus is the new Adam, the antitype of the old Adam, that makes Mary the antitype of the old Eve, the new Eve.


If you still can't make the addition then am not to blame, look within for whom to blame, at least the early Christians I quoted tried to explain it for you.

Sorry if you still can't get it.

Lastly I always accept scripture, as a Catholic I have no option, the Bible is God's word and that is dogma, which means I can never shake it. What I don't accept is your erroneous, fallible interpretation of the Bible.

blueAgent:


It was your Church that stole from pagans go and read about your Church history with an unbaised mind.

it is you who seem ignorant of history! Pagans claim Jesus is a pagan god that the church stole from them, then you go and find a quote that says Mary is a god stolen from pagans.

Is it not double standard that you are quick to agree with pagans that Mary was stolen but you will be the first to reject their claim that Jesus too was stolen? You appeal to pagans when it suits you and run away with your tail between your legs when it doesn't.

F

blueAgent:




Which dictionary? stop lieing


Definition of worship in English:
worship
NOUN
1[mass noun] The feeling or expression of
reverence and adoration for a deity.
‘worship of the Mother Goddess’
‘ancestor worship’
More example sentences Synonyms
1.1 Religious rites or ceremonies,
constituting a formal expression of
reverence for a deity.
‘the church was opened for public worship’
More example sentences Synonyms
1.2 Great admiration or devotion shown
towards a person or principle.
‘the worship of celebrity and wealth’
More example sentences Synonyms
1.3archaic Honour given to someone in
recognition of their merit.
2(His/Your Worship) British [as title] Used in
addressing or referring to an important or high-
ranking person, especially a magistrate or
mayor.
‘we were soon joined by His Worship the
Mayor’
More example sentences

so worship is the honor you give to someone you consider to be a deity and the accompanying religious ceremony, in the archaic sense it can mean a title or honor given to someone as a recognition of merit, that is what the above say abi?

Then it is clear that if you are speaking in the first sense then Catholics CAN'T BE WORSHIPING Mary because they don't consider her to be deity and worship is what one offers to deity.

Veneration on the other hand

Definition of venerate
: to regard with reverential respect or with
admiring deference
1
: to honor (an icon, a relic, etc.) with a ritual
act of devotion



Choose the Right Synonym for venerate
REVERE , REVERENCE , VENERATE, WORSHIP, ADORE
mean to honor and admire profoundly and
respectfully. REVERE stresses deference and
tenderness of feeling. // a professor revered by her
students // REVERENCE presupposes an intrinsic
merit and inviolability in the one honored and a
similar depth of feeling in the one honoring. //
reverenced the academy's code of honor //
VENERATE implies a holding as holy or sacrosanct
because of character, association, or age. // heroes
still venerated // WORSHIP implies homage usually
expressed in words or ceremony. // worships their
memory // ADORE implies love and stresses the
notion of an individual and personal attachment. //
we adored our doctor //
What's the Difference Between venerate ,
revere , and reverence ?
Venerate , revere , reverence , worship, and adore all
mean to honor and admire profoundly and
respectfully. Venerate implies a holding as holy or
sacrosanct because of character, association, or
age. Revere stresses deference and tenderness of
feeling ("a professor revered by students"wink.
Reverence presupposes an intrinsic merit and
inviolability in the one honored and a similar depth of
feeling in the one honoring ("she reverenced the
academy's code of honor"wink. Worship implies homage
usually expressed in words or ceremony ("he
worships their memory"wink. Adore implies love and
stresses the notion of an individual and personal
attachment ("we adored our doctor"wink. Venerate ,
incidentally, traces back to the Latin verb venerari,
from vener -, meaning "love" or "charm."
Examples of venerate in a Sentence
// a writer venerated by generations of admirers
// She is venerated as a saint.
Recent Examples on the Web
// One of the key thinkers venerated by Putin and his
circle is a hitherto obscure Russian fascist, Ivan
Ilyin, whose views are absurd but terrifying in their
implications.
— Margaret Macmillan, New York Times, "Are We Traveling the
‘Road to Unfreedom’?," 9 May 2018
// Madikizela-Mandela was persecuted by the
apartheid government, and venerated by many South
Africans, because of her activism against white
minority rule.
— Washington Post , "South Africa declares mourning period for
Madikizela-Mandela," 3 Apr. 2018
// Discretion is different now; it is practiced less, it
is venerated less.
— Meagan Fredette, refinery29.com , "Are Justin Bieber &
Ariana Grande Trying To One-Up Each Other On PDA?," 14 July
2018
// Social media's problems stem not just from
internet companies' business strategies but from the
technologies the companies use and venerate.
— Nicholas Carr, chicagotribune.com , "Is Facebook the problem
with Facebook, or is it us?," 10 July 2018
// Every day, the whole world seems to venerate
mothers, but for you, Mother’s Day is the worst.
— Yvonne Abraham, BostonGlobe.com , "For women who have
trouble conceiving, Mother’s Day can be the worst," 12 May
2018
// The comment made Lugo reflect on whose faces
get venerated on vases.
— Cassie Owens, Philly.com , "Throwing down: How this potter
from Kensington found fine art success," 26 June 2018
// Mexico may venerate its teachers, but that seems
not to have translated into learning.
— The Economist , "Mexico’s crucial education reform risks
being unwound," 31 May 2018
// Long- venerated as a trading powerhouse, Goldman
Sachs has struggled to regain its foothold there
since the financial crisis.
— Fortune , "Goldman Sachs Group," 29 Mar. 2018


Merriam-webster dictionary.


That is more like it.

blueAgent:





Am not sure you know the meaning of Synonyms
This is from Oxford dictionary


Synonyms of worship in English:
worship
See definition of worship
NOUN
1‘the new Church rejected the worship of saints
and relics’
SYNONYMS
reverence, revering, worshipping, veneration,
venerating, adoration, adoring, -olatry, devotion,
praise, thanksgiving, praising, praying to,
glorification, glorifying, glory, exaltation, exalting,
extolment, extolling, homage, respect, honour,
honouring, esteem
dulia, latria
rare laudation, magnification
2‘morning worship’
SYNONYMS
service, church service, religious rite, religious
act, prayer, prayer meeting, praise, devotion,
religious observance
matins, morning prayer, vespers, evening prayer,
evensong
3‘he contemplated the pin-up with worship’
SYNONYMS
admiration, adulation, idolization, deification,
lionization, hero-worship
VERB
1‘they do not worship pagan gods’
SYNONYMS
revere, reverence, venerate, pay homage to,
honour, adore, praise, pray to, bow down before,
glorify, exalt, extol
be devoted to, dote on, love, hold dear, cherish,
treasure, admire, esteem, adulate, idolize, deify,
hero-worship, lionize, have a high regard for,
hold in high regard, hold in esteem, hold in awe,
look up to
informal be wild about, put on a pedestal
archaic magnify


https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/thesaurus/worship

I saw the synonyms, thank God a synonym cannot be used to replace the original word in every instance.


Your synonym says that honor is a synonym for worship, praise too is a synonym for worship, esteem, treasure and cherish are also synonym for worship.

If a synonym could always replace the original that would mean;

Every time I honored my parents I was committing idolatry,
Every time my mum praised me she was and idolaters

Every time couples in church promised to cherish one another and I esteemed my wife or a friend that mean I was worshipping abi?

Fa fa fa fowl, doesn't work like that dear, I can cherish and treasure and esteem my wife without worshipping her, praise my parents and not worship them and venerate(honor) without ascribing divinity to her or worshipping her.

Get that?