₦airaland Forum

Toks06:
Whether the rapture happens before or after the great tribulation,Christians should be ready at all times because the day one dies,his rapture has happened..

Olumeme:
This people love decieving themselves.
God does not exists.

alBHAGDADI:
Do you think those whom you say will be left behind after your concept of rapture has taken place will care about Jesus? They never cared, why would they care then? They currently care about worldly things. When the Antichrist should up, they will follow him because he will offer more of what they care about.

Your concept of rapture is false. Didn't you see where Jesus said he will not come until the Antichrist has carried out the tribulation? Can you show us where it is stated that Christians will escape the tribulations ?

You can't cos it doesn't exist.

obonujoker:
The great tribulation is not for Christians alone... the world over... This is however the time the christians will be tested most.... Jesus however, gave us hope that the tribulation days will be shortened, coz if it wasn't, none will be saved.. This shows the severity of the tribulation....

God help us all.....

Olumeme:
This people love decieving themselves.
God does not exists.

Ataegbiti:
Albhagdadi my broda, I m not with you on this. For starters, a pre or post tribulation view of rapture is not a fundamental of the Christian faith. What is most important is salvation thru Christ alone, thru faith alone. It seems to me me that we are agreed on that and I can call u 'broda'.
Now on the tribulation. I wish I had the time to use the Bible to back up my stance but I don't. It is a wont of time, not of biblical fact.
A careful study of the Bible will reveal that Jesus will 'return' to earth twice. First for His church, and then, to church the rest of the world.
On His First return, believers will be caught up into d clouds, out of the earth to meet him. We would be with him for 7 years. In that 7 years will the tribulation be. At end of the 7 years, He will then, along with His saints, physically descend to the mount olives, the exact same spot that He ascended. This will be a global event. The whole world will witness it. It will be the fulfilment of what the angels told the onlooking Apostles wen Christ ascended - that this same man u saw being taken up, u will also see him come down again.
We will reign with Him on the earth for a thousand years.
There's no sense in subjecting Christ's church to the wrath of God. For that is what the tribulation is! God's wrath on people hu chose not to believe the claims of Jesus the messiah. For we, the church, weren't appointed on to wrath. 1 Thessalonians 5:9.
By aligning with Christ, we will not have to experience God's wrath in any form. God will be unfair to Christ, the whole point of calvary will be defeated if God still has to punish us
I hope we all grow to maturity on this matter.
God bless you.

Ataegbiti:
Albhagdadi my broda, I m not with you on this. For starters, a pre or post tribulation view of rapture is not a fundamental of the Christian faith. What is most important is salvation thru Christ alone, thru faith alone. It seems to me me that we are agreed on that and I can call u 'broda'.
Now on the tribulation. I wish I had the time to use the Bible to back up my stance but I don't. It is a wont of time, not of biblical fact.
A careful study of the Bible will reveal that Jesus will 'return' to earth twice. First for His church, and then, to church the rest of the world.
On His First return, believers will be caught up into d clouds, out of the earth to meet him. We would be with him for 7 years. In that 7 years will the tribulation be. At end of the 7 years, He will then, along with His saints, physically descend to the mount olives, the exact same spot that He ascended. This will be a global event. The whole world will witness it. It will be the fulfilment of what the angels told the onlooking Apostles wen Christ ascended - that this same man u saw being taken up, u will also see him come down again.
We will reign with Him on the earth for a thousand years.
There's no sense in subjecting Christ's church to the wrath of God. For that is what the tribulation is! God's wrath on people hu chose not to believe the claims of Jesus the messiah. For we, the church, weren't appointed on to wrath. 1 Thessalonians 5:9.
By aligning with Christ, we will not have to experience God's wrath in any form. God will be unfair to Christ, the whole point of calvary will be defeated if God still has to punish us
I hope we all grow to maturity on this matter.
God bless you.

asuustrike1:
Tribulations has started already

Eres94:
bro remember that those raptured are christains qualified to make heaven, and there are other Christians who although believe but are found wanting and aren't chosen as elects..who would face tribulations.
.so my guy above is right... those left behind aren't only unbelievers but believers in Christ who weren't doers of God's will( and they carry the testimony of Christ in them) so don't generalize about those left behind. am still in conflict with the two accounts but may the holy spirit make it clear for us all

alBHAGDADI:
All my life, I've always believed in a rapture doctrine which says before the great tribulation and before the unveiling of the Antichrist, Christians will be raptured into heaven to meet Jesus. They say Jesus will come like a thief in the night, secretly to help his believers escape the tribulation which the Antichrist will unleash.

This concept has been made popular by movies like LEFT BEHIND and some America. televangelists. Before 1800, there was no church or preacher holding such doctrine. It was started by a man named John Darby who even wrote his own Bible which lacked key verses. Today, the doctrine is held by roughly 65% of Christians. The doctrine that we will escape the tribulation is false and not Biblical.

Jesus himself spoke of when the rapture will take place. Notice how his disciples asked him to tell them what the signs of his coming will be.

Mathew 24:3
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Now read the further

24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

In verse 9, Jesus spoke of Christians getting delievered up for persecution and are killed. That is the tribulation. But false teachers have taught that the people who will face such are unbelievers who are left behind after Christians have been raptured. Well, basically we all agree that the tribulation involves persecution. But the confusion here is who are the people to face the tribulation? Some believe it is unbelievers after Christians have been raptured, while some say it is Christians who will be persecuted by the Antichrist for failing to received the mark of the beast. Let's allow the Bible settle this confusion.

First, let us see whether Christians will be raptured before the tribulation or not.

[Mathew 24:29-31
24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Did you see the bold part in the passage above? Did you also see that the rapture takes place immediately after the tribulation of the end times? The events in verse 30 to 31 are the same as described by Apostle Paul in...

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

But some people have deceived many by saying that what Jesus said in Mathew 24 cannot be the rapture because he was talking to the Jews and not to Christians. Why is it not the rapture when it is the same event described by Paul? Trumpet, angels, God's people getting caught up to heaven etc.

Yes, Jesus was talking to the Jews because his disciples who asked him to tell them about the end time were still under Judaism. But if you read Mark 13 and Luke 21, you will see that it's the same thing Jesus said in Mathew 24. At the last verse of Mark 13, Jesus said what he's saying to the people whom some quarters are saying is not the church, he's saying to ALL which includes the church.

Mark 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Now, we see that the tribulation occurs before the rapture, but who carries out the tribulation and what is it exactly? The tribulation is the persecution of Christians at the end time such as never was and never will be.

Mathew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Christians will be beheaded and persecuted all around the world. This persecution will be carried out by the Antichrist engineered by Satan himself.

Mathew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)


The Abomination of Desolation is the Antichrist who exhaust himself above everything called god and forces people to worship him.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Did you read the passage above? Did you see where it spoke about the coming of our Lord Jesus? Did you see in verse 3 that the day which Jesus will come will not exists until the man of sin (Antichrist) is revealed? Read verse 4 as well.

Yet some people say Christians won't face the tribulation even when the Bible says the Antichrist who will persecute during the tribulation will come first before Jesus Christ who will come and deliver Christians from his grip. Many will mistake him for Christ.

Mathew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

This Antichrist will wage war against the saints.

Revelations 13:4-8

13 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

As you can see above, the Antichrist exhalst himself and blasphemes God's name. Is this not the same man Paul spoke of in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, whom he said must first come before Jesus Christ comes back?

Now as seen in verse 7 above, the Antichrist wages war against the saints and will overcome many. Why is he waging war against the saint if some people believe the saints wont be around during the tribulations? In verse 13, everyone on earth is seen worshiping the Antichrist. Those who won't worship him are those whose names are written in the book of life. This is what will anger the Antichrist and make him wage war against them with great tribulation and persecution.

Revelations 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

What we see so far is that people with their names in the book of life won't worship the Antichrist. But I ask, what are they doing on earth? I thought some people said they would have been raptured and escaped.

The proponent of a pre-tribulation rapture doctrine have said that the people left behind will be unbelievers who will now have to pay with their blood to get saved. They are the ones the Antichrist will persecute. This is a lie. If all Christians will be raptured before the tribulation, then those left will be unbelievers who are already tools of Satan. Do you expect someone who doesn't give a damn about Jesus to stand with Jesus when a cutlass is placed on his neck? He will gladly received the mark of the beast because he's not used to suffering for Christ whom he never believed in.

In revelations 12:17, we see that Satan will make war against those who hold the testimony of Jesus Christ. How some people believe that the people that Satan will make war against are unbelievers is what baffles me. Do unbelievers hold the testimony of Jesus? No.

Basically, what we've seen so far is that the Antichrist comes first, then follows a great tribulation which involves the persecution of Christians. It is immediately after the tribulation that Jesus Christ will appear and will redeem his people through a rapture.

Don't let anyone deceive you. Prepare yourself for that day which is fast approaching.

alBHAGDADI:
Deeds don't determine how you spend eternity. Believe or rejection of Jesus is what deterMines.

Olumeme:
This people love decieving themselves.
God does not exists.

Sleekfingers:
What of those that dont believe your mofo called Jesus ...

Sometimes I just wonder how some Africans reason......religion of slavery and brainwashed morons

alukstea:
Can it actually be worse than this ? Would it actually get worse than this ??

alBHAGDADI:
Why are you people so comfortable with false doctrine that you reject the Bible because of?

The below passage shatters every man-made doctrine which you wrote up there.

[Mathew 24:29-31
24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


According to you, Jesus will return twice. No Bible verse says such. The above passage shows him speaking of his return. Can you see where he said it is during his return he will gather his believers? During the period of his appearance when he will gather Christians, the whole world will see him. This is no secret event and it doesn't happen twice but once.

Now go up and read the Bible passage above and compare it with what I typed and yours as well to see which of them it fits.

Now you quoted 1 Thessalonians 5:9 to say we will not experience God's wrath. Yes we will not experience God's wrath. But who told you that the tribulation is God's wrath? The tribulation is Satan's wrath on Christians. He has been unleashing it from time; the great tribulation will it be a total climax of his anger. That's why it is stated that he will wage war on the saints. The tribulation is the persecution of Christians.

Now, what is God's wrath which we will not face? It is God's anger on the wicked and the Antichrist. Same way He poured it o. the people of Noah as soon Noah shut the door of the ark is the same way He will pour his wrath on the wicked as soon as we are raptured immediately after the tribulation. Same way He poured out His wrath on the wicked people of Sodom a d Gomorrah as soon as Lot was carried away by angels is the same way He will pour His wrath on the wicked as soon as Christians have been carried away by angels when Jesus shows up to redeem them from the sufferings of the rapture. We are not appointed to God's wrath, but Satan will persecute many.

Please learn to know the difference between God's wrath and great tribulation. Through out the Bible, God's wrath has always been on the wicked, while tribulation has always been suffered by God's children.

joshnnanna:
You need to study more.

The Church of Jesus Christ will be raptured in glory sometime soon. But those who didn't really believe our message now that we are sharing it will be forced to believe becos of the rapture.

Then they will be the ones who will face this great tribulation becos the constraining power of evil in this world (which is the church and the holy spirit) would have left by then (rapture) thereby giving Satan a field day to torment those who still identify with Jesus.

OvPharez:
great tribulation is for those who didn't make it on the day of rapture it is not for Christians...

alBHAGDADI:
Which Bible verse told you that?

femarse:
yet you can not mention one particular verse where it was stated in the Bible

was it spoken to you in the dream ? or you read it in the quoran ??
one thing about Africa , they are too lazy to support their argument with fact , to lazy to support it with evidence , to lazy to do constructive argument
don't be surprised, 70% of people in hell will be Africans
everything about the many coming and performing signs and wonders is already happening in Africa , Africa is the only place where there are thousands if not million churches all claiming to perform great signs and wonders yet 95% of the population in Africa is living in abject poverty , where is this signs reflecting ?? compare to euroe, US. and Asia