DoctorAlien:
You described it perfectly
it can really be like taking people along with you climbing mountains.
Still, as a soldier of Christ, I would do my best to seize any opportunity to demolish unfounded arguments against the Biblical Christian faith.
When I was younger, I watched a movie entitled " Joan of the Arc".
The main character was a woman. Is that the same movie?

Joan of Arc, is a movie about a young French heroine who heard from God
and so dressed up as a young soldier man to fight battles.
whereas Joan of Arcadia, was a TV series, who also had interesting encounters and conversations with ...

Type the workaround instructions I gave ihedinobi3 to watch the 101 pilot

francis247:
Meaningless: Useless, worthless, senseless, of zero value.

How do you determine the value, use of something?

johnydon22:
How do you determine the value, use of something?

Its intrinsic with its purpose

MuttleyLaff:
Joan of Arc, is a movie about a young French heroine who heard from God
and so dressed up as a young soldier man to fight battles.
whereas Joan of Arcadia, was a TV series, who also had interesting encounters and conversations with ...

Type the workaround instructions I gave ihedinobi3 to watch the 101 pilot

Okay. I'll try to check that out.

MuttleyLaff:
Its intrinsic with its purpose

how is purpose derived?

DoctorAlien:
Okay. I'll try to check that out.

I prefer that you do than try.

johnydon22:
how is purpose derived?

In many and diverse ways is purpose derived.

johnydon22:


How do you determine the value, use of something?

There is no yardstick for measuring or determining the use of something. What is useful to one is useless to another, what is of value to one is of no value to another. One man's nothing is another man's everything.

francis247:
There is no yardstick for measuring or determining the use of something. What is useful to one is useless to another, what is of value to one is of no value to another. One man's nothing is another man's everything.

So what yardstick led to your absolute statement on the meaninglessness of life?

MuttleyLaff:


In many and diverse ways is purpose derived.

How though?

johnydon22:
How though?

Recall I mentioned that meaning is related to PURPOSE
and now you're asking how purpose is derived

Purpose, of course, is derived through and/or by discovery, through and/or by information, through and/or by invention, through and/or by delusion, through and/or by understanding, through and/or by definition, through and/or by assumption, through and/or by realisation, through and/or by etcetera and the list of indicators goes on

johnydon22:


So what yardstick led to your absolute statement on the meaninglessness of life?

I mean there is no specific, correct or established yardstick for measuring or determining the usefulness or otherwise of something.
Our thoughts, words and actions are solely based on our feelings, our wants, our desires which in turn is based on that which is unknown and unexplainable.

francis247:
I mean there is no specific, correct or established yardstick for measuring or determining the usefulness or otherwise of something.
Our thoughts, words and actions are solely based on our feelings, our wants, our desires which in turn is based on that which is unknown and unexplainable.

So summarily, your assertion that "life is meaningless" is at best without absolute basis therefore arbitrary at best.

Yes?

johnydon22:
So summarily, your assertion that "life is meaningless" is at best without absolute basis therefore arbitrary at best.

Yes?

What our friend doesnt want to acknowledge is that
the person famous for that "life is meaningless" remark, said it, after being woke.
Apparently there is more to life than seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines
and there is a conclusion of the whole matter of life.

johnydon22:


So summarily, your assertion that "life is meaningless" is at best without absolute basis therefore arbitrary at best.

Yes?

francis247:
Life; everything related to it is meaningless and of no value except that which we ascribe it.

Perhaps you ought to read the OP with more clarity, Johnydon22.

MuttleyLaff:
Recall I mentioned that meaning is related to PURPOSE
and now you're asking how purpose is derived

Purpose, of course, is derived through and/or by discovery, through and/or by information, through and/or by invention, through and/or by delusion, through and/or by definition understanding, through and/or by definition, through and/or by assumption, through and/or by realisation, through and/or by etcetera and the list of indicators goes on

Purpose only confers some aspects of meaning. Other modes Meaning can be found without purpose. But as regards the Purpose part of Meaning, your explanation here is excellent. How we arrive at Purpose has no direct bearing on what the OP is getting at, however once we have Purpose, real or delusional, well thought out or muddled, however we arrive at Purpose, (and we mostly have some purpose or the other in mind), we will subsequently see meanings in life derived from it.

PastorAIO:


Perhaps you ought to read the OP with more clarity, Johnydon22.

Oh I did. My question to the OP wasn't on our imposition of meaning to life and everything.

Rather a challenge to the fundamental premise of the OP which is "life is meaningless by default except that which we ascribe" so I am trying to ascertain the benchmark for meaning implied by the OP.

Maybe read my questions with more clarity.

johnydon22:


Oh I did. My question to the OP wasn't on our imposition of meaning to life and everything.

Rather a challenge to the fundamental premise of the OP which is "life is meaningless by default except that which we ascribe" so I am trying to ascertain the benchmark for meaning implied by the OP.

Maybe read my questions with more clarity.

Ouch! Menh, nor be pissing contest o! I don't think that the OP said "life is meaningless by default" anywhere. Please correct me if I'm wrong. There is a perhaps a chance that you read that into what he was saying that that is why we are at odds.

PastorAIO:


Ouch! Menh, nor be pissing contest o! I don't think that the OP said "life is meaningless by default" anywhere.

My description of the premise was not a verbatim quote.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. There is a perhaps a chance that you read that into what he was saying that that is why we are at odds.

Life; everything related to it is meaningless and of no value except that which we ascribe it.

This very opening statement that you brought actually demonstrates this premise clearly enough.

hence; "Rather a challenge to the fundamental premise of the OP which is "life is meaningless by default except that which we ascribe" so I am trying to ascertain the benchmark for meaning implied by the OP"

MuttleyLaff:
What our friend doesnt want to acknowledge is that
the person famous for that "life is meaningless" remark, said it, after being woke.
Apparently there is more to life than seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines
and there is a conclusion of the whole matter of life.

Every depressed guy since the beginning of Homo Sapiens sapiens has been saying that. Who is this famous Depressive personality?

johnydon22:
My description of the premise was not a verbatim quote.



Life; everything related to it is meaningless and of no value except that which we ascribe it.

This very opening statement that you brought actually demonstrates this premise clearly enough.

hence; "Rather a challenge to the fundamental premise of the OP which is "life is meaningless by default except that which we ascribe" so I am trying to ascertain the benchmark for meaning implied by the OP"

Okay, that's how you understood what he wrote. I understood it differently. Perhaps I'm wrong. I'll accept that.

PastorAIO:
Purpose only confers some aspects of meaning. Other modes Meaning can be found without purpose. But as regards the Purpose part of Meaning, your explanation here is excellent. How we arrive at Purpose has no direct bearing on what the OP is getting at, however once we have Purpose, real or delusional, well thought out or muddled, however we arrive at Purpose, (and we mostly have some purpose or the other in mind), we will subsequently see meanings in life derived from it.

I quite without demur concur with the last sentence actually.

PastorAIO:
Every depressed guy since the beginning of Homo Sapiens sapiens has been saying that.
Who is this famous Depressive personality?

Jedidiah, the wisest man who ever lived, did.
Not depressive but woke.

MuttleyLaff:

Jedidiah, the wisest man who ever lived, did.
Not depressive but woke.

I can see how jedijedi can lead to such a statement.

PastorAIO:
I can see how jedijedi can lead to such a statement.

I can see how with a statement such as this, you are exaggerating

johnydon22:


So summarily, your assertion that "life is meaningless" is at best without absolute basis therefore arbitrary at best.

Yes?

Yes, exactly. My assertion that life is meaningless is without absolute basis because life itself is without basis whatsoever and the blocks of it's foundation is rooted in arbitrariness.

MuttleyLaff:
What our friend doesnt want to acknowledge is that
the person famous for that "life is meaningless" remark, said it, after being woke.
Apparently there is more to life than seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines
and there is a conclusion of the whole matter of life.

There is nothing to life, nothing, absolutely NOTHING except for the things which we input and infuse into it.

johnydon22:


Oh I did. My question to the OP wasn't on our imposition of meaning to life and everything.

Rather a challenge to the fundamental premise of the OP which is "life is meaningless by default except that which we ascribe" so I am trying to ascertain the benchmark for meaning implied by the OP.

Maybe read my questions with more clarity.

There is no benchmark for meaning as I earlier implied so there is therefore no need trying to ascertain it.

There is no doubt that from the literal point of view, the value of a thing is determined by its price, its cost, the cost of acquiring the said thing and that life itself can no doubt be said to be of immeasurable and inestimable value. But this isn't the angle from which the subject matter of life is examined here, no. It is examined here from the angle of meaninglessness, uselessness, worthlessness because this is the truest, most ultimate and profoundest definition of life. It all depends on the angle from which one looks at it, life and this brings us back to the assertion that life is meaningless except for that which we ascribe to it.

francis247:
There is nothing to life, nothing, absolutely NOTHING except for the things which we input and infuse into it.

Not all is doom and gloom.
Reverence is the duty of all men,
and reverence invites revelation.

francis247:
There is no benchmark for meaning as I earlier implied so there is therefore no need trying to ascertain it.

If there is no benchmark then there Is no basis for your premise that life is meaningless.

Innit?

There is no doubt that from the literal point of view, the value of a thing is determined by its price, its cost, the cost of acquiring the said thing and that life itself can no doubt be said to be of immeasurable and inestimable value. But this isn't the angle from which the subject matter of life is examined here, no. It is examined here from the angle of meaninglessness, uselessness, worthlessness because this is the truest, most ultimate and profoundest definition of life. It all depends on the angle from which one looks at it, life and this brings us back to the assertion that life is meaningless except for that which we ascribe to it.

In what way are these things measured, what benchmark determines this?

See, it is very difficult for you to explain that because you have made an absolute statement that you agreed was not formed from an objective basis.

francis247:
Yes, exactly. My assertion that life is meaningless is without absolute basis because life itself is without basis whatsoever and the blocks of it's foundation is rooted in arbitrariness.

Actually those two context are different. If your assertion is without absolute basis then it cannot be trusted or said to rightly describe the subject it describes.

Don't misunderstand the implication of a sentence being baseless.

It simply means it has no ground, its description doesn't have a valid ground to describe the subject.

Therefore, your assertion possesses no valid ground if it has no basis and cannot be said to have made a valid description as regards life.

Until you establish this ground, that remark is not as valid as you believe.

johnydon22:
If there is no benchmark then there Is no basis for your premise that life is meaningless.

Innit?

Yes, exactly. There is no basis whatsoever for my premise that life is meaningless.

johnydon22:


In what way are these things measured, what benchmark determines this?

There is no way in which these things are/can be measured, there's no benchmark whatsoever for determining them.

johnydon22:


See, it is very difficult for you to explain that because you have made an absolute statement that you agreed was not formed from an objective basis.

No. It is not difficult for me to explain my assertion because as a matter of fact, the basis for my assertion is unexplainable. And yes, I have made an absolute statement that is not formed from an objective but a subjective basis because man, in as much as he is obligated to to be an objective being is first and foremost a subjective being. We all have our wants, feelings, desires and interests which vary to varying degrees and constitute the basis for all conflicts, clashes and crisis.

Perspectivism

johnydon22:


Actually those two context are different. If your assertion is without absolute basis then it cannot be trusted or said to rightly describe the subject it describes.

Don't misunderstand the implication of a sentence being baseless.

It simply means it has no ground, its description doesn't have a valid ground to describe the subject.

Therefore, your assertion possesses no valid ground if it has no basis and cannot be said to have made a valid description as regards life.

Until you establish this ground, that remark is not as valid as you believe.

We're saying the same thing. You from the objective angle and I from the subjective angle. My assertion like life is meaningless, baseless and devoid of validity.