MuttleyLaff:
Not all is doom and gloom.
Reverence is the duty of all men,
and reverence invites revelation.

If I live my life mainly and essentially out of duty, I do not live even though I'm alive.

francis247:

Yes, exactly. There is no basis whatsoever for my premise that life is meaningless. In


There is no way in which these things are/can be measured, there's no benchmark whatsoever for determining them.

so in what way did you arrive at that conclusion.

No. It is not difficult for me to explain my assertion because as a matter of fact, the basis for my assertion is unexplainable. And yes, I have made an absolute statement that is not formed from an objective but a subjective basis because man, in as much as he is obligated to to be an objective being is first and foremost a subjective being. We all have our wants, feelings, desires and interests which vary to varying degrees and constitute the basis for all conflicts, clashes and crisis.

Therefore you assertion on the meaningless of life is not objectively true but a subjective opinion.

Good, this where I wanted us to arrive.

Nice talking to you.

Is there a system of reasoning that is not somewhere rooted in a paradox?

francis247:

Yes, exactly. There is no basis whatsoever for my premise that life is meaningless

May I suggest that when you say that you 'ascribe' meaning to life that in actual fact it is not an act of volition and also it is not quite as arbitrary as it may seem.

To put it bluntly I would like to suggest that meaning is the product of an 'inebriated' mind.

In order words, there is something that you can come into contact with in life that will cause you to perceive meaning everywhere. Lack of this thing ( let me call it an elixir) will cause you to no longer see meanings and subsequently will leave you feeling depressed.

Also note that Depression is not an ideal state for a human. Some depressives like to wallow in their depression as if possessed by the depression but ideally sanguinity is preferred.

MuttleyLaff:
[img]https://s2/images/Joan.png[/img]

I'll fix the issue with the link later, if I can.
The god of nairaland seemingly has put a stop against posting dailymotion links in here.

You'll love it,
I used to religiously watch it when it was then aired back in the day but to everyones chagrin CBS all of a sudden stopped it.

Watch this 101 pilot
and share what you thought of it

Type https://www DOT dailymotion DOT com/video/x4zoguc ihedinobi3 to get the link.

Make the DOT be fullstop . and leave no spaces.

This is a workaround to it being stopped by the god of nairaland from displaying correctly by being truncated
dailymotion as a web link is blacklisted from showing in post

I checked the synopsis. The general idea is correct as far as it goes. The Lord works all things together for good to those who love Him and there is no soldier in His Army who has the full picture so we don't always (in fact, we rarely do) know the full rationale of the tasks that He gives us to do. That is what it means to walk by Faith. We have to trust Him to be using every obedience we offer Him to work out something perfect for all of His Children.

I may eventually make time to watch the series but I doubt that I will. I am barely keeping up with my responsibilities at the moment. I couldn't afford something like that in the short term. But I thank you very much for sharing it with me.

DoctorAlien:


You're right. Apologetics should be embarked upon here when we see that there is a potential for it to produce meaningful discussions with people who are interested in learning, not people who came to waste time and mock.

You're doing well brother.

I believe I understand you and I agree as far as that goes. My point, however, is that I am more concerned about the Christians who may read those discussions even without participating and with those Christians for whom I develop material out of those conversations (I have a thread where I share some conversations I have had). So, in so far as engaging with these men provides me an opportunity to encourage and establish the hearts of fellow Christians whether those Christians are participating in the discussions or not I am happy to indulge them.

Ihedinobi3:
I checked the synopsis. The general idea is correct as far as it goes. The Lord works all things together for good to those who love Him and there is no soldier in His Army who has the full picture so we don't always (in fact, we rarely do) know the full rationale of the tasks that He gives us to do. That is what it means to walk by Faith. We have to trust Him to be using every obedience we offer Him to work out something perfect for all of His Children.

I may eventually make time to watch the series
but I doubt that I will.
I am barely keeping up with my responsibilities at the moment.
I couldn't afford something like that in the short term. But I thank you very much for sharing it with me.

There is nothing better than the proof of the pudding is in its eating.

Just watch the 101 pilot, instead of reading synopsises.
Come back to tell and share your thoughts of it

johnydon22:
so in what way did you arrive at that conclusion.




Therefore you assertion on the meaningless of life is not objectively true but a subjective opinion.

Good, this where I wanted us to arrive.

Nice talking to you.

Same here

PastorAIO:


May I suggest that when you say that you 'ascribe' meaning to life that in actual fact it is not an act of volition and also it is not quite as arbitrary as it may seem.

To put it bluntly I would like to suggest that meaning is the product of an 'inebriated' mind.

Well said. You hit the nail on the head. In as much as the building blocks of the foundation of life is arbitrary, some of its building blocks are not all that arbitrary.

PastorAIO:
In order words, there is something that you can come into contact with in life that will cause you to perceive meaning everywhere. Lack of this thing ( let me call it an elixir) will cause you to no longer see meanings and subsequently will leave you feeling depressed.

Again you hit the nail on the head here.

PastorAIO:

Also note that Depression is not an ideal state for a human. Some depressives like to wallow in their depression as if possessed by the depression but ideally sanguinity is preferred.

Depression and life are like two similar sides of a magnet. They repel against one another.

PastorAIO:
May I suggest that when you say that you 'ascribe' meaning to life that in actual fact it is not an act of volition and also it is not quite as arbitrary as it may seem.

To put it bluntly I would like to suggest that meaning is the product of an 'inebriated' mind.

Be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be "inebriated" with the Spirit;

francis247:
Well said. You hit the nail on the head.
In as much as the building blocks of the foundation of life is arbitrary,
some of its building blocks are not all that arbitrary.

Death, is one of life building blocks that is not at all arbitrary.
Without it we wouldn't value life.

Even you, if you're honest, sincere and truthful,
will be the first to admit that, you so much value of life, that you want to arrive at your death, late.
Life afterall, to you, has a meaning then

There is more to life than just breathing.
And as for the earlier mention of depression
well, depresion, can be something, hard to understand

If my memory serves me right, I thnk its JK Rowling that said;
"Depression isn't just being a bit sad.
It's feeling nothing. It's not wanting to be alive anymore."

---

---

---

http://www.veoh.com/watch/v363280nFSFMC66
Ihedinobi3 & DoctorAlien just watch the pilot, watch the one link above alone
cc Ranchhoddas, budaatum, you both & francis247 can give thanks later
Dont forget to click on to 102
and the rest to watch the whole series

MuttleyLaff:
Be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be "inebriated" with the Spirit;

Death, is one of life building blocks that is not at all arbitrary.
Without it we wouldn't value life.

Even you, if you're honest, sincere and truthful,
will be the first to admit that, you so much value of life, that you want to arrive at your death, late.
Life afterall, to you, has a meaning then

There is more to life than just breathing.
And as for the earlier mention of depression
well, depresion, can be something, hard to understand

If my memory serves me right, I thnk its JK Rowling that said;
"Depression isn't just being a bit sad.
It's feeling nothing. It's not wanting to be alive anymore."

---

---

---

http://www.veoh.com/watch/v363280nFSFMC66
Ihedin obi3 & DoctorAlien just watch the pilot, watch the one link above alone
cc Ranch hoddas, budaat um, you both & francis2 47 can give thanks later
Dont forget to click on to 102
and the rest to watch the whole series

Okay. Thanks.

DoctorAlien:
Okay. Thanks.

Ask me later about anything you watched in it
thank you for cleverly neutralising the repeat moniker mentions

Has anyone read "The Meaning of Life" by Adrian Cooper?

MuttleyLaff:
Not all is doom and gloom.
Reverence is the duty of all men,
and reverence invites revelation.

Reverence towards whom?

I assume you've obtained some revelation. Do you mind sharing?

You once said you were not a Christian. What are you? I am asking because Ihediniobi is Catholic(?) and Doctor Alien is Adventist.

No complicated answers please. Don't say Jedidiah if you can say Solomon.

MuttleyLaff:
Be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be "inebriated" with the Spirit;

My attention has just been drawn to this post with a 'like'. It kinda sums up my position on this matter:

PastorAIO:





I want to suggest first that the 'perceived bleakness and harshness of the "truth"' is just as much subjective as any other perception of the "truth" a person may have had.

We regard the universe from many different perspectives. Each perspective will give us a slightly (or not so slightly) different picture.

A man who is depressed (yes depression is just a physiological state which has profound effects on our perceptions) will see a meaningless universe. That meaninglessness that he perceives is not objectively out there but is projected out onto the world from the 'diseased' mind of the depressed person.

A man who is Enthused about life will look out and see a universe full of Meaning. This Meaningful universe thus perceived is equally just a projection from the robust mind of the Enthused person.


The person that does not want to die is merely responding to an instinct in him. His survival instinct.

On the other hand there are people who are suicidal. It follows that suicidal people have lost that survival instinct, or the survival instinct in them has abated for some reason or the other. The reason could be purely physiological. Or it could be a reaction to a series of unfortunate events in a person's life.

Perhaps it's the level of Serotonin in the bloodstream that creates the effect whereby a person lives a meaningful life. Or perhaps it's something else. However there is a correlation between depression and the level of Serotonin in a person's bloodstream.

What the OP is doing is taking a viewpoint that is seen by such folks as are admittedly diseased psychologically and presenting that as the real objective reality. I beg to differ. I believe that it is just as jaundiced as the perspective of the Enthused person.
In other words, it's just another perspective.


Another thing that I have against OP is the presumption that religion necessarily gives meaning as an opiate against a meaningless truth.

Yet there are many religious people who become depressed, even suicidal. Piety does not cover up an sense of meaninglessness for them.

And yet again, there are many people without religion who are so full of enthusiasm for life and all of it's ridiculous follies. They live lives full of meaning.

How is this possible?


I believe that Meaning, or the quest for meaning, is something beyond mental calculations and little 'l' logic.


What gives meaning is a strong brew!!!

Ranchhoddas:
Reverence towards whom?

Reverence towards the Vitaliser

Do you respect your parents?
Do your respect your wife?
Do you respect your family?
Do you respect yourself?
Why?

Ranchhoddas:
I assume you've obtained some revelation.
Do you mind sharing?

You can take the assumption to the bank.

Sharing is my middle name. Sharing is in my DNA
My posts are full of sharing.

Please watch that link I pasted and let's together share what we watched in it

Ranchhoddas:
You once said you were not a Christian. What are you?
I am asking because Ihediniobi is Catholic(?) and Doctor Alien is Adventist.

No complicated answers please.
Don't say Jedidiah if you can say Solomon.

Christian is a misnomer.
If only more christians truthfully and properly read their bibles, there'd be less christians.

Make no mistake about it, in reality, there is no denomination.
The power that be, is Catholic Adventist et al specific agnostic.

budaatum, recently tried labeling and caging me as a Buddhist, just because I told a poster I am a Buddha.

Sometimes, you have to say Jedidiah instead of Solomon because such is life.
We labour and break a sweat, gold isnt picked off the ground surface, neither are pearls scooped off the sea water surface

Ranchhoddas:

Why this mischievous looking smirk at the end?

francis247:
Life; everything related to it is meaningless and of no value except that which we ascribe it.

I'm going to assume you are thinking out loud here, trying to ascribe meaning (or purpose) to life, since in the bit quoted below with some deletions (do read it!), you have listed things you claim are "supposedly for the good of his specie", and which the lack of it is "suicide and depression".

Indeed you have no purpose when you are born, except for that of fulfilling the desires of your parents to procreate. As you grow, the society you are born into gives you purpose through "religion, language, culture, tradition, morals, ethics, rules, laws, customs and conventions", to name a few. As you develop, you acquire a further sense of purpose, the ultimate one being to live, and would do everything possible to extend life. A simple test of this fact is to fill the bath with water and hold your head underneath it. You will find that the desire to live would limit how long your head stays under water. Your purpose, to live, would eventually overcome and out of the water in the bath would you lift your head, gasping for existence.

Humans ascribe meaning to their existence, and they give themselves purposes to take that next breath. When we lose this sense of purpose, when the need to take that next breath departs one, indeed, giving up life is the next option. But I assure you that's not going to happen to you! Your purpose, at least one of them, and which you fulfilled today, is to come on here, read what's written and contribute towards the ongoing development of "religion, language, culture, tradition, morals, ethics, rules, laws, customs and conventions" for the advancement of a peaceful and blissful stay of us humans here on earth.

The fact that you made me think all day of my response to this thread you started is evidence that you serve a purpose and are not meaningless. And the fact that I'm going to continue pondering what you've written here is indicative of how huge a purpose indeed it is! And that's without mentioning the numerous people who also read and responded to what you wrote. And the more than that who read it and didn't respond but pondered it anyway. And the many who would discuss it with others and or just be influenced by it. And don't be surprised too if long after you move on others would come along and derive purpose from this thread.

In the beginning was the word (which for the purpose of this thread is "religion, language, culture, tradition, morals, ethics, rules, laws, customs and conventions" ), and with it, you sir, created, purpose. So please don't you dare sell yourself short. In the future, even much more than this would you do!

francis247:
In as as much as religion like language, culture, tradition, morals, ethics, rules, laws, customs and conventions were made by man for the benefit as well the advancement of a peaceful and blissful stay of mankind here on earth, .......it's just like everything else created by man supposedly for the good of his specie: .... the lack of it in my unhinged opinion is much more; suicide and depression being the worst of them all..

PastorAIO:
My attention has just been drawn to this post with a 'like'. It kinda sums up my position on this matter:

Brilliant interactions with salient points scattered in there

MuttleyLaff:

budaatum, recently tried labeling and caging me as a Buddhist, just because I told a poster I am a Buddha.

Abba MuttleyLaff! You sure like mentioning buda too much! Have you forgotten how touchy I get when misrepresented, or are you just pressing my buttons?

This was you!

MuttleyLaff:

... by the way, like I told a fellow poster, the other day,
I am a buddha right now, increasingly knowing more by the day and not a future buddha
Hover or Click here to see more
Being and/or becoming a buddha, a knower, can be now and doesnt have to be in the future sense.

And here was my response.

budaatum:
Beliefs are a barrier to actual knowledge. Once most people have formed a belief on a subject they stop considering alternatives (can't say that about you though with your recent dabble into Buddhism, though your "become Buddha" is ill informed). A bit more effort and you'd know whether your beliefs were true or not.

budaatum:
Abba MuttleyLaff!
You sure like mentioning buda too much!
Have you forgotten how touchy I get when misrepresented,
or are you just pressing my buttons?

This was you!
And here was my response.

That was me alright
and I expected you'll click on the link I provided so to understand why the buddha mention came about
and how me telling the poster "I am a Buddha" cropped up

Notice in the link, she believes she is a future Buddha
and I responded to her that, I am a buddha right now,
increasingly knowing more by the day and not a future buddha

You arent half as touchy as me finding myself being misrepresented
and you trying to pigeon hole me as a buddhist by saying I dabbled into Buddhism

I've persistently been mentioning you budaatum
because I'll like you to watch this shy of 45 minutes clip
http://www.veoh.com/watch/v363280nFSFMC66

MuttleyLaff:

I've persistently been mentioning you budaatum
because I'll like you to watch this shy of 45 minutes clip
http://www.veoh.com/watch/v363280nFSFMC66

You're not exactly promoting yourself well enough to get 45 minutes of my time, MuttleyLaff. But I'll give it a go sometime.

budaatum:
You're not exactly promoting yourself well enough to get 45 minutes of my time, MuttleyLaff.
But I'll give it a go sometime.

Do it soon, you won't regret it as it'll be worth the effort
I am surprised you are oblivious of it

francis247:
Life; everything related to it is meaningless and of no value except that which we ascribe it. From language, culture, religion, morals, ethics, politics, etc. They're all meaningless. The shame or guilt we feel whenever we've broken some moral, religious, social or cultural code is based on the established rules and principles that revolve around these elements of the life and the world we live in, the world we've created, the world which we've known from birth. Same also applies to the guilt and shame we feel whenever we've committed some terrible social or grammatical blunder but sometimes we just laugh it off or simply wave it aside because at the end of the day, it means nothing, absolutely nothing. If you know, you know.

In as as much as religion like language, culture, tradition, morals, ethics, rules, laws, customs and conventions were made by man for the benefit as well the advancement of a peaceful and blissful stay of mankind here on earth, it, religion has its flaws, terrorism probably it's most fatal. It's just like everything else created by man supposedly for the good of his specie: From drugs, to gadgets and other technological advancements, they all have their side effects. Religion no doubt has its many negative effects on our humanity but the lack of it in my unhinged opinion is much more; suicide and depression being the worst of them all.

BTW, who here has seen the TV series "The Good Place"? Some hilarious afterlife cock and bullshit story. Very hilarious.

It is true there is no inherent meaning in anything but you and I can give meaning to our lives. It is no less meaningful because it is us giving it meaning so a lack of religion should not necessarily lead to depression and suicide.

I don't feel any less purposeful now that I rid myself of religion, in fact I feel more in charge of my life. And even though I no longer think a god will reveal the future, I no longer second guess myself, my decisions are firm and based on facts so I know what the likely consequences and results are and I am prepared to accept them. I am also building myself up to enjoy every aspect of life and find adventure everyday, no need to sit around moping around for imaginary things.

Ihedinobi3:

I checked the synopsis. The general idea is correct as far as it goes. The Lord works all things together for good to those who love Him and there is no soldier in His Army who has the full picture so we don't always (in fact, we rarely do) know the full rationale of the tasks that He gives us to do. That is what it means to walk by Faith. We have to trust Him to be using every obedience we offer Him to work out something perfect for all of His Children.

I may eventually make time to watch the series but I doubt that I will. I am barely keeping up with my responsibilities at the moment. I couldn't afford something like that in the short term. But I thank you very much for sharing it with me.

Pretty much.

MuttleyLaff:
Do it soon, you won't regret it as it'll be worth the effort
I am surprised you are oblivious of it

Did 37mins and 40 secs then it crashed. Please read Lordreeds above.

One is not compelled to get one's reason for living from "religion like language, culture, tradition, morals, ethics, rules, laws, customs and conventions", when one can as well cook up ones own reason in ones own head. Or, know ye not who gods are, muttley?!

Almost 38 mins! I am very vigorously smh!

budaatum:



Indeed you have no purpose when you are born, except for that of fulfilling the desires of your parents to procreate. As you grow, the society you are born into gives you purpose through "religion, language, culture, tradition, morals, ethics, rules, laws, customs and conventions", to name a few. As you develop, you acquire a further sense of purpose, the ultimate one being to live, and would do everything possible to extend life.

That's the thing. I do not sadly feel like I have in me that which it takes to acquire a further sense of purpose beyond that which fulfilling the desires of my parents to procreate gives as well as that which being a member of the society offers.

budaatum:

In the beginning was the word (which for the purpose of this thread is "religion, language, culture, tradition, morals, ethics, rules, laws, customs and conventions" ), and with it, you sir, created, purpose. So please don't you dare sell yourself short. In the future, even much more than this would you do!

As regards things looking up and changing for the better in the future, frankly I do not, as someone living with SCT alias CDD and also being a melancholic, envisage that happening but time shall tell. After all there are lots of supposedly beautiful and amazing exposures, exhibitions and experiences life has to offer of which I'm yet to have a slice. I can only but hope for the best.

budaatum:
Did 37mins and 40 secs then it crashed.

37 mins is a very good and long enough time to get a gist and good enough grip of the film.

10:46
Who are you?
I've known you since before you're born
I'm going to ask you one more time
I AM God
You what?
God
Dont ever, talk to me, again

How did I beat that kid at chess?
He was using logic, you werent

What did you think of the above dialogues at the 10:46 minute mark and another after it

budaatum:
Please read Lordreeds above.

One is not compelled to get one's reason for living from "religion like language, culture, tradition, morals, ethics, rules, laws, customs and conventions", when one can as well cook up ones own reason in ones own head.
Or, know ye not who gods are, muttley?!

#IfYouKnowYouKnow
If you know, you know and who no know, no go know

I did and saw a gaping wide hole bigger than a Swiss Cottage cheese.
Unsurprisingly, there actually are more holes than Swiss cheese in it

budaatum:
Almost 38 mins! I am very vigorously smh!

Why smh, why vigorously?
Is it because you felt gutted and let you down that your internet connection degraded whilst watching it

That wasnt God though, you know, trying to get her into the car
Just refresh to reload the connection, to continue watching
and then click on below for 102
http://www.veoh.com/watch/v384437hZJ6YSHD

francis247:
That's the thing. I do not sadly feel like I have in me that which it takes to acquire a further sense of purpose beyond that which fulfilling the desires of my parents to procreate gives as well as that which being a member of the society offers.



As regards things looking up and changing for the better in the future, frankly I do not, as someone living with SCT alias CDD and also being a melancholic, envisage that happening but time shall tell. After all there are lots of supposedly beautiful and amazing exposures, exhibitions and experiences life has to offer of which I'm yet to have a slice. I can only but hope for the best.

Are you a student or do you work?

francis247:
That's the thing. I do not sadly feel like I have in me that which it takes to acquire a further sense of purpose beyond that which fulfilling the desires of my parents to procreate gives as well as that which being a member of the society offers.

You are allowing yourself to be limited by you environment and circumstances, and its making you feel despondent - though, your "I do not sadly feel" presents a contraction. Do you really believe you do not "have what it takes to acquire a further sense of purpose beyond that which fulfilling the desires of my parents to procreate gives as well as that which being a member of the society offers"? Well, that's ok. It's not as if you can have fully explored the "sense of purpose which being a member of the society offers". I'll give you an anecdote.

Some long while ago, when I felt like you did, I was in a library one day when I heard the words "buda, I am the lord thy god", which isn't so strange since I was amongst what could best be described as gods to me, except I wasn't in the fashion of hearing voices apart from that of the shower head.

Somewhile later, I moved house, and not finding anywhere for my books, I shipped them all to my home in Nigeria. Then I visited the library in the Orolu Kingdom and found I had more books in storage than the entire kingdom had, so I gave my books to the library. Then I collected more books from my friends and sent them to the library, which started me on a purpose of caring for the library of the Orolu Kindom that has spanned some 15 years.

My point here is, widden your society.

francis247:
As regards things looking up and changing for the better in the future, frankly I do not, as someone living with SCT alias CDD and also being a melancholic, envisage that happening but time shall tell. After all there are lots of supposedly beautiful and amazing exposures, exhibitions and experiences life has to offer of which I'm yet to have a slice. I can only but hope for the best.

Sluggish cognitive tempo (SCT) is the term for a syndrome that may comprise a novel and distinct attention disorder from ADHD. Symptoms of it include dreaminess, mental fogginess, hypoactivity, sluggishness, staring frequently, inconsistent alertness and a slow working speed.

Look at all those amazing skills! Dreaminess, the ability to move ones mind out of ones physical environment. Mental fogginess, the ability to not get stuck on the little you know. Hypoactivity, energy. Sluggishness, tortoise like, slow and steady, and not like the hare. Staring frequently, as in observing, likely with the mind as opposed to the eyes alone. Inconsistent alertness, able to relax one's mind. Slow working speed, as in, not a russian!

And the point here is widen your amazing skills!

You can more than hope, francis247! With all those skills, you can rest assured that your possibilities would widen in time.

Yep, life is short Francis.
Make the most of what you got
and don't be too self absorbing over the lots of supposedly beautiful and amazing exposures, exhibitions and experiences life has to offer of which you're yet to have a slice of.
We all do and/or can only but hope for the best.