OkCornel:


How can alBHAGDADI understand? When he thinks God's work cannot be done without money...is that not an insult to God already? Putting mammon and God on the same level...

Imagine someone lying that God uses firstfruits to cater for His workers...

Was it first fruit that sustained Elijah during the period of famine? Or was it first fruit and tithes that sustained the Apostles and Leaders of the early church?

All these lies just for money...

I tell you brother. A big insult to God. The Apostles and the early church Leaders where sustained through freewill giving.

It ought to be this way; we look up to God for our provision, then God may move the heart of men to give and help us or He may bring help another way, for He is not limited. Who would have thought that God would use a raven to feed Elijah in the desert?

bloodofthelamb:


I tell you brother. A big insult to God. The Apostles and the early church Leaders where sustained through freewill giving.

It ought to be this way; we look up to God for our provision, then God may move the heart of men to give and help us or He may bring help another way, for He is not limited. Who would have thought that God would use a raven to feed Elijah in the desert?

Was it everyday God uses a Raven to feed Elijah?

They love to talk of free will giving as if it goes beyond the dirty and torn N100 note they squeeze into the offering plate.

I can bet that 95% of the people commenting on this thread have not giving more than 0.1% of their salary to church in 2018. Was it 0.1% the appostles used to feed their family?

alBHAGDADI:


You are self-brainwashed.

You forgot that you are in the flesh. Christ has rebuked every devourer yet Christians fall sick, get locked, go broke, go hungry etc?

Stop being ridiculous. Temptations, persecutions and afflictions will always arise when you are a Christian.

Christ rebuked the devourer yet Paul, Peter and the other disciples faced persecution and were killed.

Na wah for you o. Why not just sleep all day and expect to make a living because Christ paid it all.

Oh! So those who pay tithe and first fruit do not lack, fall sick, and face persecution. If they do, what happened? Is God slacking in rebuking the devourer?

alBHAGDADI:


Was it everyday God uses a Raven to feed Elijah?

They love to talk of free will giving as if it goes beyond the dirty and torn N100 note they squeeze into the offering plate.

I can bet that 95% of the people commenting on this thread have not giving more than 0.1% of their salary to church in 2018. Was it 0.1% the appostles used to feed their family?

A 100 note given with a pure heart is worth more than all your gold and silver given with pride before God. Keep putting your faith in peoples money in the name of tithe and first fruit. Don't go and put faith in God for provision.

alBHAGDADI:


1 Corinthians 9:13-14
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

And what does "living of the gospel" have to do with tithes and first fruits?

Where did Jesus or the Apostles ask of tithes and first fruits from Christians under the guise of "living of the gospel"?





By the way, I could see you dubiously left out 1 Corinthians 9 v 15 because it does not favor your fraudulent tithing and first fruit doctrines, so I'll quote from 13-16

13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.

16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!

alBHAGDADI, can you see what Paul wrote in verse 15? why didn't you include it?

bloodofthelamb:


I tell you brother. A big insult to God. The Apostles and the early church Leaders where sustained through freewill giving.

It ought to be this way; we look up to God for our provision, then God may move the heart of men to give and help us or He may bring help another way, for He is not limited. Who would have thought that God would use a raven to feed Elijah in the desert?

Exactly my brother... anything outside freewill giving is a doctrine built on lies...

bloodofthelamb:


Oh! So those who pay tithe and first fruit do not lack, fall sick, and face persecution. If they do, what happened? Is God slacking in rebuking the devourer?

How often do they suffer those things?

alBHAGDADI:
How often do they suffer those things?

I don't know. Maybe you should tell me. While at it, you should also tell how often me that depends on grace alone suffer those things?

OkCornel:


And what does "living of the gospel" have to do with tithes and first fruits?

Where did Jesus or the Apostles ask of tithes and first fruits from Christians under the guise of "living of the gospel"?





By the way, I could see you dubiously left out 1 Corinthians 9 v 15 because it does not favor your fraudulent tithing and first fruit doctrines, so I'll quote from 13-16

13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.

16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!

alBHAGDADI, can you see what Paul wrote in verse 15? why didn't you include it?

That was Paul speaking for himself. He could do what he did because he was a single guy and not the pastor of any church unlike the other apostles. That's why he said he couldn't do all those things the other apostles did. And what are those things? Read from verse 1 to see that they include having a wife, not having a job outside the church and living of the Gospel. Paul said he had the power to do those things as well but he chose not to. He never implied that those who do are wrong about it. As a matter of fact, he said it is good for those who preach the gospel to feed of the Gospel.

Please read the entire chapter again and slowly.

You ask to know where Jesus or the disciples asked for firstfruits. I'll show cos I know your blindness didn't allow you to see it in the passage you quoted. First, you need to know that firstfruits where brought to the altar in the house of God which was the temple of old. The firstfruits is what the priests and everyone who ministered at the altar fed on. Since the church is now the house of God, same practice continued. That's why Paul said in verse 13 that those who preach the gospel have the right to feed of it just as those who minister at the altar of God's temple of old. In verse 14, he said Jesus ordained preachers to live of the Gospel just as those priest did with what was brought to the altar of God on the temple of old.

1 Corinthians 9:13
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Please don't come back and say o haven't answered your question o.

OkCornel:


Exactly my brother... anything outside freewill giving is a doctrine built on lies...

Seconded. Anything outside freewill offering is heresy.

Firstfruits offering is Scriptural but it is not the whole of your first salary but the best.

alBHAGDADI:


That was Paul speaking for himself. He could do what he did because he was a single guy and not the pastor of any church unlike the other apostles. That's why he said he couldn't do all those things the other apostles did. And what are those things? Read from verse 1 to see that they include having a wife, not having a job outside the church and living of the Gospel. Paul said he had the power to do those things as well but he chose not to. He never implied that those who do are wrong about it. As a matter of fact, he said it is good for those who preach the gospel to feed of the Gospel.

1) And by "living of the Gospel" , you are implying that the Apostles preached to the Christians that they must bring their tithes and first fruits so they would not be victims of the devourer?

2) Asides freewill giving, please where exactly did the Apostles make it a requirement for Christians to tithe or bring in first fruits?

alBHAGDADI:

Please read the entire chapter again and slowly.

You ask to know where Jesus or the disciples asked for firstfruits. I'll show cos I know your blindness didn't allow you to see it in the passage you quoted. First, you need to know that firstfruits where brought to the altar in the house of God which was the temple of old. The firstfruits is what the priests and everyone who ministered at the altar fed on. Since the church is now the house of God, same practice continued. That's why Paul said in verse 13 that those who preach the gospel have the right to feed of it just as those who minister at the altar of God's temple of old. In verse 14, he said Jesus ordained preachers to live of the Gospel just as those priest did with what was brought to the altar of God on the temple of old.

If you are saying the church is the "house of God", that means either you or Stephen is telling a lie;
Acts 7 v 48-49;

48 “However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says:

49 “‘Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. What kind of house will you build for me? says the Lord. Or where will my resting place be?

alBHAGDADI:

1 Corinthians 9:13
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Ogbeni...how does living of the gospel translate into placing a burden and fleecing the flock in the name of tithes and first fruits (which were never money by the way)? Doesn't it run contrary to what is in 2 Corinthians 9 v 7?

Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

alBHAGDADI:

Please don't come back and say o haven't answered your question o.

There are questions you have not addressed, and I will definitely bring them up again

alBHAGDADI, God gave specific instructions on how first fruits should be given;

Why isn't the church following God's instructions? How did money come into the picture?

270. To set aside the first fruits and bring them to the Temple — Ex. 23:19
271. The Kohanim must not eat the first fruits outside Jerusalem — Deut. 12:17
426. To set aside the firstborn animals — Ex. 13:12
428. Not to redeem the firstborn — Num. 18:17

Take a look at God's specific requirements for first fruits. Look at all those instructions and tell us where God demanded money as first fruit!

alBHAGDADI:


Is firstfruits a practice under the law of Moses? No.

Firstfruit giving had been in existence right before Moses and even Abraham were born. Abel gave firstfruit and he wasn't under the law. In the book of Proverbs, Solomon said we should honor God with our firstfruits, and he didn't say the commandment was under the law.

Proverbs 3:9
9 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:
10 So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.

The above is for those who believe it. If you don't believe in it, why go ahead trying to dissuade people from obeying the word of God?

Solomon lived in the era of the law, where exactly did Solomon mention that the first fruit commandment was not under the Law?

OkCornel:


1) And by "living of the Gospel" , you are implying that the Apostles preached to the Christians that they must bring their tithes and first fruits so they would not be victims of the devourer?

2) Asides freewill giving, please where exactly did the Apostles make it a requirement for Christians to tithe or bring in first fruits?


If you are saying the church is the "house of God", that means either you or Stephen is telling a lie;
Acts 7 v 48-49;

48 “However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says:

49 “‘Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. What kind of house will you build for me? says the Lord. Or where will my resting place be?


Ogbeni...how does living of the gospel translate into placing a burden and fleecing the flock in the name of tithes and first fruits (which were never money by the way)? Doesn't it run contrary to what is in 2 Corinthians 9 v 7?

Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.


There are questions you have not addressed, and I will definitely bring them up again

1. If the apostles didn't preach such, then what were they living of when Paul said they had the right to live of the Gospel? Do you think free will giving was enough to cater for the mouth of the apostles and their family? Or was it everyday people sold their land and houses to give to the church?

2. It became a requirement in 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 when Jesus ordained that they make a living of the Gospel just as the old testament priest did. How did the priest do theirs? Through tithes and offerings.

I and Stephen are both telling the truth, you are the liar here. Yes, God doesn't live in temples anymore but he now lives in the Church. Perhaps you mistake church for a building. No, it is the gathering of the brethren which is the church and house of God. The brethren in which God lives gather together to become a church, the house of God.

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Remember that symbolic thing Jacob did when he promised to pay his tithe. He said he was going to bring it to the house of God which he symbolized using a pillar. Now read the verse below and the one above to see similar words and phrases.

Genesis 28:22
And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

The above is why firstfruits are brought to the church which is the house of God.

If tithes is a burden to you, them don't pay it. But going about telling others not to pay means you are on a collision course with God.

OkCornel:


Solomon lived in the era of the law, where exactly did Solomon mention that the first fruit commandment was not under the Law?

Because all what mentioned in the book of Proverbs are not commandments under the law of Moses. His words are wisdom that goes beyond the law of Moses. That's why the first few verses of the first chapter speaks of what the book is about.

Proverbs 1:1-9
1 The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;
2 To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;
3 To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
4 To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.
5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.
7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
8 My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
9 For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck

If you say the book is under the law Moses which you love to say has been done away with, then what you are saying now is that we should do away with verses 7 and 8. No, we won't because we are not a fool like you described on verse 7, that's why we obey the book of Proverbs.

OkCornel:


Solomon lived in the era of the law, where exactly did Solomon mention that the first fruit commandment was not under the Law?

Don't waste your precious time with this guy! I have concluded that he is here for an antichrist agenda. Why do you think he has time for all these responding to almost every contrary post?

He's also probably not a Christian but has 'mastered' the scriptures to debate controversies. (Or he is simply a confused believer) The aim: Confuse Christians many of whom are not Bible students anyway and dig in for us errors we have swallowed such as tithe and first fruits that have nothing to do with Christians.

See example of alBaghgadi's comrade in thief.

Today Is Our Dollar Sunday, It Was Powerful, Everybody Gives Offerings With Dollars, Child Of God, This Week You Will Count In Dollars, In Jesus Name.

Grace Is My Pin Code, Restoration Apostle Is My Name
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1924449650975565&id=100002316477993

These pastors are worse than armed robbers.

alBHAGDADI:


1. If the apostles didn't preach such, then what were they living of when Paul said they had the right to live of the Gospel? Do you think free will giving was enough to cater for the mouth of the apostles and their family? Or was it everyday people sold their land and houses to give to the church?

Then bring out biblical references where the Apostles requested tithes and firstfruits from Christians under the guise of "living of the gospel".

Ladies and gentlemen of nairaland, there you have it. The part of the quote I bolded in red is the major reason alBHAGDADI is twisting the scriptures. All for the money!

He is yet to show us where God requested for money as firstfruit.
He is yet to show us one biblical example of a Christian that gave firstfruit
He is yet to show us where the Apostles made tithing and first fruit a requirement for Christians.

alBHAGDADI:

2. It became a requirement in 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 when Jesus ordained that they make a living of the Gospel just as the old testament priest did. How did the priest do theirs? Through tithes and offerings.

I and Stephen are both telling the truth, you are the liar here. Yes, God doesn't live in temples anymore but he now lives in the Church. Perhaps you mistake church for a building. No, it is the gathering of the brethren which is the church and house of God. The brethren in which God lives gather together to become a church, the house of God.

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Remember that symbolic thing Jacob did when he promised to pay his tithe. He said he was going to bring it to the house of God which he symbolized using a pillar. Now read the verse below and the one above to see similar words and phrases.

Genesis 28:22
And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

The above is why firstfruits are brought to the church which is the house of God.
If tithes is a burden to you, them don't pay it. But going about telling others not to pay means you are on a collision course with God.

Jesus never asked for first fruit under the guise of "living of the gospel"
The Apostles never asked for first fruit under the guise of "living of the gospel"

Only freewill giving was encouraged! Open your bible and show us where such demands were made from CHRISTIANS!

alBHAGDADI:


Because all what mentioned in the book of Proverbs are not commandments under the law of Moses. His words are wisdom that goes beyond the law of Moses. That's why the first few verses of the first chapter speaks of what the book is about.

Proverbs 1:1-9
1 The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;
2 To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;
3 To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
4 To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.
5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.
7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
8 My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
9 For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck

If you say the book is under the law Moses which you love to say has been done away with, then what you are saying now is that we should do away with verses 7 and 8. No, we won't because we are not a fool like you described on verse 7, that's why we obey the book of Proverbs.

You are still beating around the bush. No one asked you if Proverbs was part of the books of Moses; read the question slowly and give a direct answer.

1) Did Solomon live in the era of the law? Yes or No

2) Where exactly did Solomon mention that the first fruit commandment was not under the Law?

OkCornel:
alBHAGDADI, God gave specific instructions on how first fruits should be given;

Why isn't the church following God's instructions? How did money come into the picture?

270. To set aside the first fruits and bring them to the Temple — Ex. 23:19
271. The Kohanim must not eat the first fruits outside Jerusalem — Deut. 12:17
426. To set aside the firstborn animals — Ex. 13:12
428. Not to redeem the firstborn — Num. 18:17

Take a look at God's specific requirements for first fruits. Look at all those instructions and tell us where God demanded money as first fruit!

alBHAGDADI, why are you dodging this question?

This is the third time I am bringing it to your attention. Where did God precisely ask for salary or wages as first fruit?

omojeesu:


Don't waste your precious time with this guy! I have concluded that he is here for an antichrist agenda. Why do you think he has time for all these responding to almost every contrary post?

He's also probably not a Christian but has 'mastered' the scriptures to debate controversies. (Or he is simply a confused believer) The aim: Confuse Christians many of whom are not Bible students anyway and dig in for us errors we have swallowed such as tithe and first fruits that have nothing to do with Christians.

It's very clear this guy is ready to twist the scriptures to any length just for money

To give examples where God requested for money as first fruit - Nothing!
To give examples where Jesus or the Apostles requested for tithes and first fruit - Nothing!

OkCornel:
alBHAGDADI, why are you dodging this question?

This is the third time I am bringing it to your attention. Where did God precisely ask for salary or wages as first fruit?

He is under pressure.
He is busy checking what to pull out from his haystack of lies to respond with

I couldn't help not noticing the way alBHAGDADI avoided replying to the 2 comments babeosis made.

OkCornel:


alBHAGDADI, why are you dodging this question?

This is the third time I am bringing it to your attention. Where did God precisely ask for salary or wages as first fruit?

Where did I mention that first fruits have to do with salary or wages?

OkCornel:


You are still beating around the bush. No one asked you if Proverbs was part of the books of Moses; read the question slowly and give a direct answer.

1) Did Solomon live in the era of the law? Yes or No

2) Where exactly did Solomon mention that the first fruit commandment was not under the Law?

1. He did

2. Where did he mentioned that the first fruits was UNDER the law?

MuttleyLaff:
He is under pressure.
He is busy checking what to pull out from his haystack of lies to respond with

I couldn't help not noticing the way alBHAGDADI avoided replying to the 2 comments babeosis made.

You mean those unclear comments she made?

She couldn't even state the chapter she got her Bible passage from, yet you want me to argue with her. The passage wasn't even talking about first fruits.

alBHAGDADI:
You mean those unclear comments she made?

She couldn't even state the chapter she got her Bible passage from, yet you want me to argue with her. The passage wasn't even talking about first fruits.

OK ooo but you could have let her know and by virtue of that the readership as well too.

I am waiting to see when and what you are going to write about giving that is about you deciding how much you decide to give and the giving that you aren't told how much to give, in addition of you not being forced, tricked, cajoled, threatened, made to feel inadequate if unable or not in a position to give.
Please mention me when you do

OkCornel:


It's very clear this guy is ready to twist the scriptures to any length just for money

To give examples where God requested for money as first fruit - Nothing!
To give examples where Jesus or the Apostles requested for tithes and first fruit - Nothing!

Its endtimes upon us!

MuttleyLaff:
OK ooo but you could have let her know and by virtue of that the readership as well too.

I am waiting to see when and what you are going to write about giving that is about you deciding how much you decide to give and the giving that you aren't told how much to give, in addition of you not being forced, tricked, cajoled, threatened, made to feel inadequate if unable or not in a position to give.
Please mention me when you do

What you give is not yours but God's.

I APPRECIATE those of you trying to educate these e(vil) - teachers. The solution to madness is not education. These errant teachers of Daddy Freeze Church of Madness do not need answering them. They have arguement some of that have evidence should just be watching them acting their scripts of foolishness

lalasticlala in all fairness, this should be a counter thread to the one below which made from page.

https://www.nairaland.com/4923414/first-fruit-scam-wiser-2019

true talk