₦airaland Forum

CAPSLOCKED:
MANY WOMEN DON'T WANT PATRIARCHY TO END. I HAVE TOLD YOU THIS BEFORE.
SOME HOW THEY DISLIKE THE STRESS OF DOING ALL THE CHORES ALONE, AND BEING TREATED LIKE SECOND HAND HUMANS, BUT THEN AGAIN THEY DON'T WANT TO LET GO OF THE NUMEROUS PLEASURES AND ADVANTAGES PATRIARCHY AFFORDS A LOT OF WOMEN.

PATRIARCHY IS THE REASON FOR "LADIES FIRST"
IT IS THE REASON MEN ARE EXPECTED TO BE LEADERS AND PROVIDERS... WHILE WOMEN'S BEST POSITION SHOULD BE THE COMPANION, "HELPER".
IT IS THE REASON MALE SOLDIERS ARE SENT TO DIE AT WARFRONT WHILE FEMALE SOLDIERS ARE LEFT AT HOME TO DO THIER NAILS AND HAIR, MOLEST MALE CIVILIANS BECAUSE THEY ENJOY IT, DANCE AND SHARE VIDEOS ON FACEBOOK, AND SERVE TEA TO GENERALS IN THE OFFICE.
BECAUSE OF PATRIARCHY, MAN IS EXPECTED TO SAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY HIS GIRL'S BRIDEPRICE, AND CONDUCT THE WEDDING. WHILE THE WOMAN ONLY FOLLOWS HIM HOME WITHOUT CONTRIBUTING A KOBO UNLESS SHE WANTS TO, AND EVERYONE IS COMFORTABLE WITH THE ARRANGEMENT.

MAN IS EXPECTED TO PAY RENT AND FEES, AND DROP MONEY FOR HOME KEEPING WHILE WOMAN STAYS AT HOME AND EVERYBODY IS HAPPY WITH THAT.
IF THE ARRANGEMENT IS REVERSED SO THAT THE MAN CAN STAY AT HOME WHILE WOMAN WORKS HER LIFE AWAY TO PROVIDE FOR THE FAMILY, THE WORLD PREPARES FOR ANOTHER WAR... BECAUSE OF PATRIARCHY.

AND YOU THINK WOMEN WANT THESE PRIVILEGES TO END, BY ENDING PATRIARCHY? THINK AGAIN.

cococandy:
The topic is CLEARLY about the behavior of men who call themselves Christians but act otherwise. Ergo the topic was already based on a gender. My response is in order.

If you have issues, you need not display them

Elder0001:
Wait ... if I want attention from someone on nairaland ,it’ll be you ? That’s funny .

Don’t turn this thread into a gender war with your warped and biased opinions.

Mtcheew

ElsonMorali:
Most "Christians" don't know that the word Christian means "of Christ" or "Christ like" and that the early followers of Jesus were first called Christians in Antioch because they exhibited and reflected the personality of Jesus the Christ.

Being the head of the family doesn't mean lording it over the other family members.

A reference point is Jesus, the head of the Church who washed his disciples' feet and even laid down his life for us.

That is the role of the head. To serve and not to be served.

The woman on the other hand is not to take advantage of this. But in today's world that we live in, most women will. A man has to be prudent in his dealings with his family members.

Not too bossy and definitely not a wimp.

cococandy:
Off topic much?

Like the OP said “of course it’s women’s fault that you guys act the way you do”.

fykes:
Mostly people are only Christians bcoz they go to church... Or aren't Muslims or traditionalist...
D virtues op is talking about are things u can only get by making a conscious effort over the years, as a man, to renew ur mind in line with ur faith. Faithfulness, patience, loyalty andhumility are not things u find in a common man, it takes years of conscious efforts for these things to be seen in a man. So don't expect that bcoz he is a Xtian man, he supposed to be ...xyz.
The world system says more is better, says adultery is fun as long as u can provide for ur family... So much trash out there, only a man who is in tune with the core values of grace and truth (which came through Christ) can live above board, and that is a life long lesson-an effort which many will be reluctant to make.

CAPSLOCKED:
PLEASE QUOTE YOURSELF THE NEXT TIME YOU HAVE SUCH NONSENSE TO SAY.

cococandy:
You decided to continue a different thread on this topic. Because you people didn’t get enough attention on that one?

Now focus on the topic. Why does the church breed Christian unsaved men? Read the OP carefully and see if you have anything intelligent to add. Not a tirade of untruths

PLEASE QUOTE YOURSELF THE NEXT TIME YOU HAVE SUCH NONSENSE TO SAY.

Elder0001:
Don’t turn this thread into a gender war with your warped and biased opinions.

CAPSLOCKED:
IT'S OBVIOUS THIS ONE IS CONFUSED. MY REACTION WAS MEANT FOR THE POST I QUOTED. ASKING ME THIS NONSENSE DUE TO THE ANGER YOU FEEL SHOWS HOW MOST OF YOU THINK. YOU JUST JUMP OUT OF THE BLUE TO ATTACK ANYBODY AND THEN CLAIM VICTIMS WHEN YOU START SEEING THE REACTIONS.
I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST THIS THREAD. IN THE FIRST PAGE I OFFERED WHAT I HAD, AND MY NEXT POST WAS DIRECTED TO ANOTHER PARTICULAR POST. THERE'S NO POINT GOING FURTHER ON THIS INTERNET GENDER WARS YOU WOMEN ENJOY SO MUCH.
IF ONLY SOME OF YOU HAD GUTS TO ATTEND TO SOME OF THIS ISSUE IN THE FACE AND CONFRONT YOUR OPPRESSORS IN REAL LIFE LIKE SOME OF US ARE DOING, THE SOCIETY AND CHURCH MIGHT JUST BEGIN TO SEE THE ABUSE OF POWER AND PRIVILEGE BY MEN.
INSTEAD, AFTER VENTING YOUR BITTERNESS ONLINE YOU GO BACK TO REALITY TO ANSWER YES SIR AND COOK, CLEAN AND WORSHIP MEN IN THE PURSUIT OF MARRIAGE AND MOST TIMES FREE MONEY.

LewsTherin:
Unfortunately, many people see being a Christian as filling it in any registration form, attending church once or twice a month on sundays and calling out "blood of Jesus" when in a tight spot. They forget that being a Christian isn't about religion. It is a lifestyle of following His commands and living as He would have us live

Unfortunately, many churches focus their teachings on being holy to get to heaven or on appropriating the promises of the bible in other to get wealth. They forget that while christians desire to go to heaven, they live in a very physical world. They forget to teach them how to live in this sinful world. They forget to let them know there is more to being a follower of Christ than living a comfortable or wealthy life.

Also, understand that while there are laws, commandments, to following Christ, God expects us to live within the world we are in even while not conforming to the world. This means that society's norms that are not explicitly contrary to the word of God are expected to be followed in the most Christian way available.

So society primarily drives the ways we learn, for example. and society has decided that all a man needs to know, to be a good husband and father is to provide for his family. Material provision, I might add. So male children are taught to study hard, get a good job, learn a trade, develop a source of income and then you can have a family. The females are taught that they have to make themselves attractive to males to get a good husband and take care of the husband and children. They are warned that there are not enough males available. They are told that if they mess up with their males, he can simply get another female but no male will ever find them desirable.

As it is in society, so it is in church. Society's methods of teaching are then imported into the church and many times, the church forgets that the Bible introduces caveats into what society teaches. Besides, like my first 2 paragraphs say, many people will simply say of what the church teaches "that one na dia own"

So there really isn't so much difference in what people learn from society and what people learn from the church due to failures all around. And what the society teaches sadly places the burden on the female. Worse still is that the females themselves help to perpetuate these.

I could say more but where is the time?

LewsTherin:
Unfortunately, many people see being a Christian as filling it in any registration form, attending church once or twice a month on sundays and calling out "blood of Jesus" when in a tight spot. They forget that being a Christian isn't about religion. It is a lifestyle of following His commands and living as He would have us live.

Unfortunately, many churches focus their teachings on being holy to get to heaven or on appropriating the promises of the bible in other to get wealth. They forget that while christians desire to go to heaven, they live in a very physical world. They forget to teach them how to live in this sinful world. They forget to let them know there is more to being a follower of Christ than living a comfortable or wealthy life.

Also, understand that while there are laws, commandments, to following Christ, God expects us to live within the world we are in even while not conforming to the world. This means that society's norms that are not explicitly contrary to the word of God are expected to be followed in the most Christian way available.

So society primarily drives the ways we learn, for example. and society has decided that all a man needs to know, to be a good husband and father is to provide for his family. Material provision, I might add. So male children are taught to study hard, get a good job, learn a trade, develop a source of income and then you can have a family. The females are taught that they have to make themselves attractive to males to get a good husband and take care of the husband and children. They are warned that there are not enough males available. They are told that if they mess up with their males, he can simply get another female but no male will ever find them desirable.

As it is in society, so it is in church. Society's methods of teaching are then imported into the church and many times, the church forgets that the Bible introduces caveats into what society teaches. Besides, like my first 2 paragraphs say, many people will simply say of what the church teaches "that one na dia own"

So there really isn't so much difference in what people learn from society and what people learn from the church due to failures all around. And what the society teaches sadly places the burden on the female. Worse still is that the females themselves help to perpetuate these.

I could say more but where is the time?

ElsonMorali:
There is a simple reason for this. Most "christians " go to church out of a force of habit. There are atheists or freethinkers who are wonderful companions to their spouses and great parents to their kids.


The principle of living is simple for all men. "Do unto others what you want done to you"


This Golden rule is even more important between husbands and wives.


Just imagine that each spouse treats their better half exactly the same way they want to be treated...just imagine the bliss in that home.


That's all what Jesus Christ has commanded his followers to do. Yet we call ourselves Christians and we cheat on our spouses, batter them physically and emotionally and then run to church to sing kumbaya and shout halleluya as means of shutting up our consciences.


Going to church eery Sunday or everyday doesn't make you a christian (christ-like) more than standing in your garage at home turns you into a Cadillac.

All humans have just one job to do on earth, just one..."Do unto others..." You'd think that was easy enough, right? You have no idea.

Acidosis:
A saved Christian woman should not be found with an unsaved Christian husband.


When the foundation is destroyed, what can the righteous do?



If you're truly saved, you will choose wisely.

ElsonMorali:
Most "Christians" don't know that the word Christian means "of Christ" or "Christ like" and that the early followers of Jesus were first called Christians in Antioch because they exhibited and reflected the personality of Jesus the Christ.

Being the head of the family doesn't mean lording it over the other family members.

A reference point is Jesus, the head of the Church who washed his disciples' feet and even laid down his life for us.

That is the role of the head. To serve and not to be served.

The woman on the other hand is not to take advantage of this. But in today's world that we live in, most women will. A man has to be prudent in his dealings with his family members.

Not too bossy and definitely not a wimp.

cococandy:
Good. A Christian husband should respect his wife in the same way that he wants to be respected, stay faithful to her for the rest of his life like he expects.
Give the same respect to his in-laws that he wants her to give to his family. To mention but a few.

Yes I agree that it sounds like bliss. Imagine a world where men give what they expect. Bliss.
Sounds to me like the golden Christian rule is feminist. Seeking fair treatment of everyone involved.

My Christian brothers do not like the golden rule.
They prefer the parts of the Bible that mentions submission of women (submission to male vices BTW) ,while ignoring the parts that charges men to do same.

I bet what I typed above would sound like torture to some very ‘devout’ Christians.
Not when they can say “after all he’s the head of the family” in response to very bad behavior. As if headship is a free ticket to abuse.

I could go on although there’s really no need to. I don’t see how anyone can argue with this except of course they willfully choose to see the truth. In which case it’s not worth the time. The running around in circle discussing an issue that’s clear as day.

crackhaus:
The bible says that a man should love his wife as Christ has loved the church.
The same bible also states that its better for a man to live atop a roof than to share his home with a stubborn/rebellious wife?

However, when you remember that a husband is supposed to love his stubborn/rebellious wife as Christ loved the church, then you should know that 'love' here means tolerance and forgiveness... So, you're wrong when you say husbands are not taught tolerance and forgiveness.

On the issue of infidelity, it is frowned upon when perpetrated by both sexes. No where is it written that a woman must tolerate a cheating husband while the man must send a cheating wife away. Sexual immorality is grounds for divorce (Mathew 19:9) after all avenues for saving the marriage has failed. Divorce is not mandatory, it is permissible.

On the issue of abuse, its common sense that the victim seeks help. It is also common sense to get to the root cause by calling both parties together and trying to work it out. There's no verse i know of that tells women to tolerate an abusive husband, counselling is what is usually recommended and if this fails, then divorce is also permissible.
Remember the verse about Christ loving the church? Well Christ also encouraged the apostles(church) to flee from persecution and save themselves for the propagation of the gospel. By my interpretation, physical abuse is a form of persecution and a wife is encouraged to flee (not divorce, take note). In fleeing, she has saved herself from harm and created time for reconciliation by calling on the elders of the church to try restoring that marriage to how God originally intended.


Now the reason I edited your sentence in my first comment was simply because you started the topic on a bias footing. You made it a women versus man thing and used Christianity as your backdrop.
The problem you have is not with Christianity or biblical teachings, your problem is you're listening to people who are not grounded in the word of God. Okay scratch that, they may be grounded but there's something psychologists call 'implicit bias'. This kind of bias is unconscious and one which everyone suffers from whether they like it or not.

Whoever is teaching women to tolerate and forgive but not teaching men to do same has an implicit bias that was formed by the society (NOT Christianity or the Bible)..meaning, a devout Christian who is an African or Nigerian and grew up in a society that doesn't quite see men and women as equal in marriage will automatically teach his/her Christian doctrines along that same line and not even realize it.

My summation is this, study to show thyself approved. It is for this reason i hardly attend church (organized/institutionalized religion), not because I despise the congregation of brethren but because I try to avoid listening to people who teach the scripture based on their own interpretation.
Wisdom is profitable to direct (in knowing what and who to listen to). And after gaining wisdom, the next step is to have understanding (Proverbs 4:7).

postmann:

First off, it narrows down to a church or churches that have contributed to shaping your thoughts and belief.

Scripture is replete with sound doctrines on how a saved husband should conduct himself in marriage and there are plenty of churches that hold fast to such teachings.

This is not to denounce your point, but a good analysis in relation to reality will prove that such teachings cut across both gender divide.

For instance, men are generally thought both within religious and secular circles not to be provoked by a woman's tongue. "Just ignore her", walk away when she starts ranting", "never lay your hands on her no matter the provocation ". These are few advise given to men with regards to the nature of a woman's tongue.

It is easy to raise gender-based misgivings without looking the other way round where the advantages lie.


Thanks for the mention, elder0001

CAPSLOCKED:
BEAUTIFUL TOPIC YOU HAVE THERE. SUCH POSTS SHOULD BE TAKEN IMPORTANTLY.

BUT TO THE PART I HIGHLIGHTED, I WANT TO PUT YOU RIGHT.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN BY "UNBELIEVERS" BUT IN THIS NIGERIA THAT WERE RAISED, MOST FAMILIES ARE BELIEVERS, AND I GREW UP KNOWING MOSTLY CHRISTIAN FAMILIES AND THEIR TERRIBLE HYPOCRITICAL LIFESTYLE IS THE WORST ANYONE CAN IMAGINE.

IF BY UNBELIEVERS YOU MEAN MUSLIMS, I TELL YOU THAT MUSLIM FAMILIES ARE MORE PEACEFUL AND GODLY THAN MOST CHRISTIAN FAMILIES, FROM MY OWN ANGLE. YOU DON'T FIND MUSLIM WIVES DIDDLING YOUNGER BOYS, OR YOU FIND MUSLIM FAMILIES DIVORCING, OR KILLING OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS BECAUSE OF PROPERTY.

AND IF BY UNBELIEVERS YOU MEAN FREE PEOPLE, ATHEISTS, AND THE REST, THEN I HAVE TO LET YOU KNOW THAT SOME OF THE PEACEFULLY MINDED AND CONTENTED PEOPLE YOU WILL EVER FIND ARE THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN OR PRETEND TO GET INSTRUCTIONS FROM AN INEXISTING SUPERNATURAL BODY WHO DICTATES TO HUMANS HOW THEY SHOULD LIVE THEIR LIVES.

CAPSLOCKED:
MANY WOMEN DON'T WANT PATRIARCHY TO END. I HAVE TOLD YOU THIS BEFORE.
SOME HOW THEY DISLIKE THE STRESS OF DOING ALL THE CHORES ALONE, AND BEING TREATED LIKE SECOND HAND HUMANS, BUT THEN AGAIN THEY DON'T WANT TO LET GO OF THE NUMEROUS PLEASURES AND ADVANTAGES PATRIARCHY AFFORDS A LOT OF WOMEN.

PATRIARCHY IS THE REASON FOR "LADIES FIRST"
IT IS THE REASON MEN ARE EXPECTED TO BE LEADERS AND PROVIDERS... WHILE WOMEN'S BEST POSITION SHOULD BE THE COMPANION, "HELPER".
IT IS THE REASON MALE SOLDIERS ARE SENT TO DIE AT WARFRONT WHILE FEMALE SOLDIERS ARE LEFT AT HOME TO DO THIER NAILS AND HAIR, MOLEST MALE CIVILIANS BECAUSE THEY ENJOY IT, DANCE AND SHARE VIDEOS ON FACEBOOK, AND SERVE TEA TO GENERALS IN THE OFFICE.
BECAUSE OF PATRIARCHY, MAN IS EXPECTED TO SAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY HIS GIRL'S BRIDEPRICE, AND CONDUCT THE WEDDING. WHILE THE WOMAN ONLY FOLLOWS HIM HOME WITHOUT CONTRIBUTING A KOBO UNLESS SHE WANTS TO, AND EVERYONE IS COMFORTABLE WITH THE ARRANGEMENT.

MAN IS EXPECTED TO PAY RENT AND FEES, AND DROP MONEY FOR HOME KEEPING WHILE WOMAN STAYS AT HOME AND EVERYBODY IS HAPPY WITH THAT.
IF THE ARRANGEMENT IS REVERSED SO THAT THE MAN CAN STAY AT HOME WHILE WOMAN WORKS HER LIFE AWAY TO PROVIDE FOR THE FAMILY, THE WORLD PREPARES FOR ANOTHER WAR... BECAUSE OF PATRIARCHY.

AND YOU THINK WOMEN WANT THESE PRIVILEGES TO END, BY ENDING PATRIARCHY? THINK AGAIN.

NoToPile:
Solid points

Lots of non-christlike 'christain men' abound (even right inside the church)

Lots of men even hold tradition and christainity side by side and anywhere the bible contradicts tradition, Christianity is trashed aside and then tradition takes the fore front.
Those ones are Christians as long as it doesn't contradict tradition

bukatyne:
@Bold: That's where the role of submission comes in.

bukatyne:
Extremely true.

fykes:
Mostly people are only Christians bcoz they go to church... Or aren't Muslims or traditionalist...
D virtues op is talking about are things u can only get by making a conscious effort over the years, as a man, to renew ur mind in line with ur faith. Faithfulness, patience, loyalty andhumility are not things u find in a common man, it takes years of conscious efforts for these things to be seen in a man. So don't expect that bcoz he is a Xtian man, he supposed to be ...xyz.
The world system says more is better, says adultery is fun as long as u can provide for ur family... So much trash out there, only a man who is in tune with the core values of grace and truth (which came through Christ) can live above board, and that is a life long lesson-an effort which many will be reluctant to make.

bukatyne:
@Bold: If I had a problem with the Bible/Christianity, I would not accuse the Church of not teaching in line of the Bible. And fortunately, most posters saw that the thread was not male/female, it was the Nigerian Church versus the Bible.

I agree with the other parts of your post.

You can find a Bible Believing Church and still study after you have been taught.

bukatyne:
First off, divorce the Church (organized religion according to crackhaus) from the Bible to understand my thread.

Secondly, most churches in Nigeria sound like a typical village gathering telling husbands and wives how to behave.

Thirdly, listen to women gatherings and men gatherings (if available) and listen to their teachings.

Fourth, read other people's posts here who got the message.

postmann:
I thought you were going to let me run away with it. Never too late for a reply, huh?

Anyways, what was your thread saying again?! That women are thought in churches to be tolerant of abusive husbands while similar teaching are not thought to men in the same weight.


And I tell you dear Bukky, if I should take your "first off" advise it still doesn't do your argument any good. The Bible is clear about unbelieving husband.

Your "secondly" assertion sets you up as one who might be antagonistic towards the BODY OF CHRIST -- the Church. If that's the case then it might be that there're still some harden ground within your heart that hasn't yielded to the undiluted truth of the scriptures. Feminism is alien to Christianity. Choose which side you on.


Oh, the "thirdly"! Thou Bukky, divide not the Body of CHRIST. Concern yourself more with being submissive as scriptures demand of you and channel whatever gender misgivings you have towards the opposite sex in prayer -- THROUGH SUBMISSION

And fourthly, like seriously? You didn't mean to tell me that other people's posts conveyed your message better, do you?

postmann:
I thought you were going to let me run away with it. Never too late for a reply, huh?

1. Anyways, what was your thread saying again?! That women are thought in churches to be tolerant of abusive husbands while similar teaching are not thought to men in the same weight.


2. And I tell you dear Bukky, if I should take your "first off" advise it still doesn't do your argument any good. The Bible is clear about unbelieving husband.

3. Your "secondly" assertion sets you up as one who might be antagonistic towards the BODY OF CHRIST -- the Church. If that's the case then it might be that there're still some hardened ground within your heart that hasn't yielded to the undiluted truth of the scriptures. Feminism is alien to Christianity. Choose which side you on.


4. Oh, the "thirdly"! Thou Bukky, divide not the Body of CHRIST. Concern yourself more with being submissive as scriptures demand of you and channel whatever gender misgivings you have towards the opposite sex in prayer -- THROUGH SUBMISSION

5. And fourthly, like seriously? You didn't mean to tell me that other people's posts conveyed your message better, do you?

crackhaus:
I kind of sensed this too, it wasn't just you..but according to her, fortunately no one else did or is it unfortunately.