great664:
Everyone ended up absolving the almighty (Artist) from any blame of the wrong drawing. He alone knowest all but still went ahead to create his greatest adversary (the satan) to destroy the beautiful things he made and then turn around to punish innocent human like us and threaten us with evalasating fire if we don't follow his path, I don't think the satan or devil ever threaten anyone to follow him, People do willingly, so if i may ask who has giving FREE WILL

amyblessed:


Very well illustrated. Thank you so much

amyblessed:


Thanks for coming to my rescue first, and you all did justice to the question.

great664:
Everyone ended up absolving the almighty (Artist) from any blame of the wrong drawing. He alone knowest all but still went ahead to create his greatest adversary (the satan) to destroy the beautiful things he made and then turn around to punish innocent human like us and threaten us with evalasating fire if we don't follow his path, I don't think the satan or devil ever threaten anyone to follow him, People do willingly, so if i may ask who has giving FREE WILL

amyblessed:


God never created the devil as devil, satan was an angel in heaven, it was only due to his pride and rebellion to God's authority that he was thrown out of heaven.
Now he decided to deceive the man that God created to also rebel against God as he did. Now hell was originally prepared for the devil and his agents, not for human beings. And God gave man choice to either follow Him or follow the devil.
And He told us where each road will end, if you decide to follow God, you are heading for a life that will never end with God in heaven. And if you decide to follow the devil, you are on the other hand heading to a life that will never end in the place prepared for the devil, and that is hell.
It's very simple, God doesn't threaten anyone to follow Him. He just set two options before you, and told you the consequence of each one you choose. Its left for you to choose between the two, between God and the devil, between life and death. That is where the FREE WILL comes in.

1Sharon:
Why calling humans tools? Aren't we children of god again?

LordReed:


Ok so the devil was not a pencil in the hand of the creator or it was a pencil turninoninown?

amyblessed:


Sorry, I'm not in for further argument on this. If you haven't gotten anything from our previous answers, then you wont get it even if I answer your question.

LordReed:


How is a question argument? Let me restate my question in another way since you didn't answer it, did the devil have free will or it was acting as an agent of god in heaven where it rebelled?

amyblessed:


Well, if the devil didn't have free will, there would have been no possibility of him rebelling against God. Rebellion comes out of free will. Since there was obedience and rebellion, that means he had the right to choose either to obey God or to rebel against him. So he actually had a choice and he chose to rebel.

LordReed:


Very well, here's another question: if the devil who supposedly has seen the god rebelled why are we not afforded the same courtesy to see the god before we decide whether to believe or not? This tale of the devil's rebellion indicates that seeing the god does nothing to affect the exercise of free will. Why does the devil supposedly have more evidence for the existence of god than we do?

Zither:


That is because God ordained that man should walk in faith. As it is written, the just shall live by faith. Faith doesn't wait to see before it believes but it is the evidence that the unseen is a reality. The question is why faith? Why don't the angels have the benefit of faith while we do?

1. Without faith it is impossible to please God or have any relationship with Him

2. Through faith in Christ we are given the power to become sons and daughters of God

3. By faith we receive and walk in God's righteousness

4. We receive forgiveness of sins and answers to prayers

5. We receive justification by faith and

6. We are saved by faith

There are other reasons why faith is important but these should suffice.

If you had been created to see God and dwell in His Presence as the angels do then faith no longer applies to you. The Devil had no excuse to sin because he had no tempter. He sinned willfully. He willfully made the choice to rebel knowing the consequences, and also knowing that he would never be forgiven. Faith only applies to you when you are still alive. It ceases to apply to you when you die as there is no repentance in the grave. At that moment, the spiritual world, the angels, the devil, God has become a reality to you come to know through death, rather than through faith.

God wants you to make the choice through faith before you actually see the reality itself in death.

LordReed:


So the god made me to operate by faith but put me in a world in which nothing operates by faith?

LordReed:


Very well, here's another question: if the devil who supposedly has seen the god rebelled why are we not afforded the same courtesy to see the god before we decide whether to believe or not? This tale of the devil's rebellion indicates that seeing the god does nothing to affect the exercise of free will. Why does the devil supposedly have more evidence for the existence of god than we do?

LordReed:


So the god made me to operate by faith but put me in a world in which nothing operates by faith?

Zither:


That is because God ordained that man should walk in faith. As it is written, the just shall live by faith. Faith doesn't wait to see before it believes but it is the evidence that the unseen is a reality. The question is why faith? Why don't the angels have the benefit of faith while we do?

1. Without faith it is impossible to please God or have any relationship with Him

2. Through faith in Christ we are given the power to become sons and daughters of God

3. By faith we receive and walk in God's righteousness

4. We receive forgiveness of sins and answers to prayers

5. We receive justification by faith and

6. We are saved by faith

There are other reasons why faith is important but these should suffice.

If you had been created to see God and dwell in His Presence as the angels do then faith no longer applies to you. The Devil had no excuse to sin because he had no tempter. He sinned willfully. He willfully made the choice to rebel knowing the consequences, and also knowing that he would never be forgiven. Faith only applies to you when you are still alive. It ceases to apply to you when you die as there is no repentance in the grave. At that moment, the spiritual world, the angels, the devil, God has become a reality to you come to know through death, rather than through faith.

God wants you to make the choice through faith before you actually see the reality itself in death.

amyblessed:


Most of everything we do is by faith. If you dont have the faith that you will come back when you are going out, you wont tell people you are coming back, or make arrangement of what you will do when you come back. Faith is that believe that you will come back. Likewise when you sleep, you have the faith that you will wake up, etc. Now, that is the faith God wants us to approach Him with, though you haven't seen Him, but you believe He exists. And He will manifest Himself to you.
God manifests Himself to people in different ways, the way He manifested Himself to me may not be the way He will manifest Himself to you.

Zither:


Faith operates in the world because God has given every one of us a measure of faith.

amyblessed:


Zither has already done justice to your question, but to add to it, the devil has more evidence of God's existence because he has been with him before he was thrown down. He's actually laughing at those that say there's no God because he has succeeded in deceiving them. And when they leave this world and find out there's God, it would have been too late to believe.
We are not meant to see God physically before we know He exists. We are meant to believe in His existence by faith, and faith is believing that what you have not yet seen exists. If we are to see God before we know He exists, then we would have left this world because no man sees God and live. We only experience Him in our spirit when we yield our lives to Him.

amyblessed:


Most of everything we do is by faith. If you dont have the faith that you will come back when you are going out, you wont tell people you are coming back, or make arrangement of what you will do when you come back. Faith is that believe that you will come back.
I THINK THE PROPER WORD YOU'RE LOOKING FOR IS "HOPE".

Likewise when you sleep, you have the faith that you will wake up, etc. Now, that is the faith God wants us to approach Him with, though you haven't seen Him, but you believe He exists. And He will manifest Himself to you.
God manifests Himself to people in different ways, the way He manifested Himself to me may not be the way He will manifest Himself to you.
I'M YET TO SEE HOW YOU WITH YOUR BELIEFS AND FAITH AND GRACE IN YOUR PREFERRED GOD (YHWH) IS BETTER THAN THE REST OF US AND OTHER NONBELIEVERS OF YHWH.
OH.. YOUR REWARD AND ENJOYMENT IS IN HEAVEN WHILE WE SHALL INHERIT HELL. HAHAHA

Zither:
Great664

I shall begin by stating the fact that God created both light and darkness. He created good and evil. The question is why would He do that knowing the extent of destruction evil would perpetuate on His creation? The answer is simple — God is a JUST God — and He gives everyone the RIGHT to choose what they want to do with their lives. He hates evil but being a just God He lets evil co-exist with good for a period of time. In the end, no one will accuse Him of denying them the right to choose whether to serve Him or not.

He knew He must give each one of us a choice to make knowing the choices we would make.

He, as the Great Artist, knows the individual purpose He designed for each life on earth, and works to achieve them only in partnership and agreement with us. When the drawing is beautiful it is because we let God use us for what He created us to fulfill. When the drawing is anything but beautiful it is because we have exercised our will to follow the path we want, and God being a just God lets us have our way....to think we know the territory better than the One who created the territory is completely ridiculous.

LordReed:


Ok so the devil was not a pencil in the hand of the creator or it was a pencil turninoninown?

LordReed:


As far as I know nothing in this world operates by faith. The sun, air & wind, natural disasters, farming, manufacturing, breathing, sex, childbearing, walking, standing, withdrawing money, making money, seeing, hearing, etc. What in this world operates by faith aside from a belief in god?

tintingz:
God created both Good and evil, that alone is enough. The rest of your explanation are confusing and meaningless.

Zither:


The worldly system operates in a different manner from the practise and life of faith obviously. Besides, belief in the existence of God is not the only basis for faith. Getting to know Him personally also requires faith. God is not dead. He is not a myth that was created by figment of imagination. He is a living God and He still talks today as He did in His Word. You may not need faith to date and marry, or relocate to another state, or choose a career, but you do need faith to hear from God to guide you on your choice of marriage, your choice of place to relocate, and your choice of career. It is written, "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God" (Romans 8:14). You see, faith goes way beyond belief in God's existence, but this belief in His existence is the foundation of the Christian's walk in Christ.

Zither:


Really? I have made my explanation quite lucid to any reader.

LordReed:


Very well, so you are saying that faith is a distinct practice from regular living which implies it is not needed for living but essential for a god belief and religious practice right?

amyblessed:


Zither you don't really need to engage these atheists in argument because its mostly a waste of time. Even when you answer their questions, they will twist it the other way round. It's just God that can arrest them.

Zither:


I'm well-acquainted with that tendency. You are so on point that it is only God who can convict them. Our job is to just pass the message. Hope your day was lovely.

luvmijeje:
This is a deep question question. But I'll have to diverge from everyone and choose the Pencil for 5 reasons.

1. Without the pencil there is no drawing.

2. Without the pencil, the idea if the artist don't come alive.

3. Without the pencil there will be no beauty to appreciate.

4. Without the pencil an artist becomes man.

5. The pencil makes an artist. The artist didn't make the pencil.

So is the relationship between us and God.

Without man there's no God. God exist because man gave birth to it. The secret and beauty God is each of us. The day we start listening to people who's perspective of God differs from us is the day we realize the pencil makes an Artist.

amyblessed:


Yes it was, thanks. And yours?