winningwinner:


You're not informed then... There are a thousand and one priests in Nigeria alone that left and started their own Churches. Read widely and get information...

Lol. People just throw numbers without proper research.

How many priests do you even think are in Nigeria, that a thousand and one would leave to open their own church? Lol. It's not so easy. After spending almost 15 years in Seminary, and being exposed to a number of theological indoctrination and philosophical enlightenment.

I can't lie that it doesn't happen. But it's like 1 in 1000 priests. Because I've heard of like just 1 or 2 dissenters. If worse comes to worst, the priest would leave the vocation. But to start a church in the Pentecostal arm? It's a rarity. It's almost unthinkable by priests.

edogu:


akwa ibom priest leaves catholic church.
https://www.google.com.ng/amp/s/www.premiumtimesng.com/news/top-news/239093-nigerian-priest-quits-catholic-church-says-i-want-go-heaven-i-die.html%3famp_markup=1

Waiting for the other two

majamajic:
come back ke , they will form their own Church and continue from there

nope

I happen to know the priests in question, what they are after is an older form of Catholic worship not a break from the church.

Naturally there is a provision in the Catholic church that allows them to use the older form of worship but they need to do either of two things.:

1. Use the older form while maintaining their parishes as given the them by the Bishop and under his full authority.
2. Or form a religious congregation under the Vatican department called ecclesia dei, and be directly under the Pope...

The wahala here is that they left their post given to them by their legitimate Bishop and the accompanying ministry, and are doing stuff on their own... It seems they are not under the Vatican either and people are suspecting they are under SSPX, that means they are in an irregular state.

Hence the Bishop has withdrawn their priestly faculties... That is a harsh punishment for a priest.

They have options... I pray they use the right ones

Nodogragra4me:
Why not start with your immediate family if you have one already. Then come out with your result after 5 years to show Nigerian the actual benefit of being an atheist.

I'm an atheist. And I will NEVER be one. I do not have anything against people who are atheists. Who am I to judge or condemn them for their beliefs? I only referenced China and Japan because although they are atheist countries, they are still prosperous countries. That was my point.

Ubenedictus:
nope

I happen to know the priests in question, what they are after is an older form of Catholic worship not a break from the church.

Naturally there is a provision in the Catholic church that allows them to use the older form of worship but they need to do either of two things.:

1. Use the older form while maintaining their parishes as given the them by the Bishop and under his full authority.
2. Or form a religious congregation under the Vatican department called ecclesia dei, and be directly under the Pope...

The wahala here is that they left their post given to them by their legitimate Bishop and the accompanying ministry, and are doing stuff on their own... It seems they are not under the Vatican either and people are suspecting they are under SSPX, that means they are in an irregular state.

Hence the Bishop has withdrawn their priestly faculties... That is a harsh punishment for a priest.

They have options... I pray they use the right ones

now I understand

michlins:
This news isn't complete. They should have explained what the traditional mass if like

it is the normal Catholic worship from about 1500-1960 it is called the extraordinary form of the Latin mass or the vetus ordo or the old mass or the tradentine mass.

It was modified so that those who don't understand Latin would understand the mass and some other stuff were removed while others were added to help modern people understand and worship better.

But many people like the old mass and the Catholic Church allows priest who knows how to celebrate it to do so.

chiommy123:
What is traditional Catholic mass?

it is the normal Catholic worship from about 1500-1960 it is called the extraordinary form of the Latin mass or the vetus ordo or the old mass or the tradentine mass.

It was modified so that those who don't understand Latin would understand the mass and some other stuff were removed while others were added to help modern people understand and worship better.

But many people like the old mass and the Catholic Church allows priest who knows how to celebrate it to do so.

Nairasurplus:
What is traditional mass? Is it celebrating holy mass with thing available in ones locality. For instance replacing mass wine imported from Spain with our natural palm wine. Is it not God that created palm wine. I thought mass is a form of prayer? Does a prayer have a format before God accepts it?
Christians, open your eyes.

no sir.

Traditional mass doesn't mean celebrating mass with palm wine

Curiouscity:

That is not traditional mass. Replacement of the wine with our palm wine would be termed as INCULTURATION. Part of the inculturation is why many hymns during mass are rendered in local languages, with local drums.

But traditional mass is mass where the priest backs the congregation for entire duration of the mass, and most of the prayers and even bible readings are done in Latin language. This is also called Tridentine mass. It was abandoned after the 2nd Vatican council of 1962-1965. But members of SSPX who are less than a 1000 worldwide still practice it, against the rules and directives of the Church.

actually the people using traditional mass are really many and the number is growing in every continent... In fact in country like France the normal mass is dying while the traditional one is growing... Any priest is allowed to practice the tradentine mass under the mortu propio summorum pontificum

VERTEX1:


Traditional Mass is Tridentine Latin Mass. It was banned In The Catholic Church. In this mass the priest Backs the congregation and every prayers and responses are said in Latin. Browse google for more details.

it is not banned, it has never been banned and it isn't banned... Cardinals and bishops still celebrate it and there is a papal document that says is was never banned and that any priest who wish to can celebrate it.

pillarmaria:


It was never banned but the second Vatican council Abandoned it just to embrace a more circular kind of worship.

If you are sure of any Church's documents/council that banned it then present it here.

he made a mistake... It isn't even that abandoned again, it is making a resurgence

VERTEX1:


Traditional Mass is Tridentine Latin Mass. It was banned In The Catholic Church. In this mass the priest Backs the congregation and every prayers and responses are said in Latin. Browse google for more details.

it is not banned, it has never been banned and it isn't banned... Cardinals and bishops still celebrate it and there is a papal document that says is was never banned and that any priest who wish to can celebrate it.

MosesAlex:


The TLM (The Trident Mass ) has not been banned by the Catholic Church. That is a common misconception.

Read more what is Church official stance on it here.

https://w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/motu_proprio/documents/hf_ben-xvi_motu-proprio_20070707_summorum-pontificum.html


At least I know the bishops of Port Harcourt and Orlu Dioseces allow celebration of the Tridentine Masses at Sacred Heart Seminary (PH) and at Umuaka, Orlu, Imo State

are you serious?

The Bishop of port Harcourt?.... I knew about orlu... Please can you present links to the port Harcourt celebration?

Udopasa:
Clarification pls

continue reading

Ubenedictus:
are you serious?

The Bishop of port Harcourt?.... I knew about orlu... Please can you present links to the port Harcourt celebration?

Masses hold at the Sacred Heart Seminary on Sundays (it shares wall with CIWA, close to Artillery, Aba-PH road)

I don't have links, but have been there myself.

MosesAlex:


Masses hold at the Sacred Heart Seminary on Sundays (it shares wall with CIWA, close to Artillery, Aba-PH road)

I don't have links, but have been there myself.

if I ever find myself in that environment I'll branch in....

hmm

HeyCorleone:


I'm Catholic and i have to side with him. Why all these ministries?

It's not a traditional Catholic thing. It's just a complex based on the society we're in where Pentecostal worship is seen as the best. So Catholic Priests have to create ministries with semblance of Pentecostal worship in order to dissuade members from leaving the church.

It's not a bad thing, as it has achieved its purpose to an extent, indeed even Pentecostals even come to these Ministries, like the Lumen Christi Ministry run by Father Dibia in Delta.

But some of these priests see themselves as pope and begin to feel big and all. Look at Mbaka. Some may not even have the time to carry out their priestly vocation as their ministry becomes their number 1 priority.

Ministries are windows incorporated in the church to boost charisma. it comes with the approval of a local ordinary (a bishop or any other head of a diocese/local mission.) And the faculty can be withdrawn with the discretion of the Local Ordinary whenever it is either abused or deemed fit. It is supported by the documents of the Vatican II council. In the Catholic Church, the Local Ordinary exercises both legislative and executive powers because it is believed that a Bishop by virtue of his seat represents one of the 12 apostles; the original priests ordained by Christ himself on that very Night he was betrayed. A Catholic priest(presbytery) is not full a priest, hence he is subordinate to a Bishop. It is only the Bishop of Enugu can call Fr. Mbaka to order if he deemed fit. Of course as you know, Bishops are humans; likewise their sense of tolerance varies. So, prayer or other spiritual Ministries are welcomed in the Church in as much as it follows both universal and local laws of the Church and the said priest will be the spiritual director even when such ministry is founded by a lay faithful in the Church.

Chrisbeks:
when will they sanction father Mbaka?

Them dey wait for you

Ubenedictus:
he made a mistake... It isn't even that abandoned again, it is making a resurgence

Yes, the second Vatican council that gave birth to the Novus Ordo Mass is not a dogmatic council and as such do not poses the Power to Change the way we go about the Holy Mass, The celebration of the Holy Eucharist is traditionally meant to be solemn and not like what we see now that is more Protestant than Catholic.
. Truly the Holy Mass has changed and the abuse is affecting our faith.

The second Vatican council erred by adopting protestanism into the Holy Mass just to accommodate Protestant, God never changes so his standards.

Nairasurplus:
What is traditional mass? Is it celebrating holy mass with thing available in ones locality. For instance replacing mass wine imported from Spain with our natural palm wine. Is it not God that created palm wine. I thought mass is a form of prayer? Does a prayer have a format before God accepts it?
Christians, open your eyes.

The traditional mass is not local mass.

It is more like the old mass in latin with the priest backing the congregation. It has been the traditional mass until the vatican II council in mid nineties

pillarmaria:


Yes, the second Vatican council that gave birth to the Novus Ordo Mass is not a dogmatic council and as such do not poses the Power to Change the way we go about the Holy Mass, The celebration of the Holy Eucharist is traditionally meant to be solemn and not like what we see now that is more Protestant than Catholic.
. Truly the Holy Mass has changed and the abuse is affecting our faith.

The second Vatican council erred by adopting protestanism into the Holy Mass just to accommodate Protestant, God never changes so his standards.

ecumenical council in union with the Pope are infallible, they don't err.
Whatever we call it whether pastoral or dogmatic, they have full power in defining and legislating

Are the priests handsome?

michlins:
This news isn't complete. They should have explained what the traditional mass if like

The traditional mass is celebrating mass according to the old tradition just as the apostles did.

chiommy123:
What is traditional Catholic mass?

It is celebrating mass the traditional way just as the apostles of Jesus did.

chukxie:


I'm an atheist. And I will NEVER be one. I do not have anything against people who are atheists. Who am I to judge or condemn them for their beliefs? I only referenced China and Japan because although they are atheist countries, they are still prosperous countries. That was my point.

God rewards the labours of your hands... If your hands has no labours there is nothing to bless...this is irrespective of your belief.


There are believers and there are Christians

Curiouscity:

That is not traditional mass. Replacement of the wine with our palm wine would be termed as INCULTURATION. Part of the inculturation is why many hymns during mass are rendered in local languages, with local drums.

But traditional mass is mass where the priest backs the congregation for entire duration of the mass, and most of the prayers and even bible readings are done in Latin language. This is also called Tridentine mass. It was abandoned after the 2nd Vatican council of 1962-1965. But members of SSPX who are less than a 1000 worldwide still practice it, against the rules and directives of the Church.

Cool but its more than backing the priest. Its actually doing mass according to tradition as done by the apostles of Christ. This was the way the apostles said mass. And the mass is the celebration of the death and resurrection of Christ. And so if the death and resurrection of Christ cannot change, it remains the same forever. Why should the mass change from the way the apostles of Jesus did it?

monex:


The traditional mass is not local mass.

It is more like the old mass in latin with the priest backing the congregation. It has been the traditional mass until the vatican II council in mid nineties

Actually the differences are more than the priest facing the Altar (as you have during benediction) or the use of Latin ( because the Novus Ordo can also be said in Latin) there are other differences
It's our heritage, you may want to read more about it.

https://fssp.com/why-the-extraordinary-form/

phinter:


Cool but its more than backing the priest. Its actually doing mass according to tradition as done by the apostles of Christ. This was the way the apostles said mass. And the mass is the celebration of the death and resurrection of Christ. And so if the death and resurrection of Christ cannot change, it remains the same forever. Why should the mass change from the way the apostles of Jesus did it?

Check your Church history again. Even after the 1st council in Jerusalem, what is known as mass today had the form of a meal - breaking of the bread. How do you break the bread and share with the people backing them.

I was dismayed to see a write-up from the Chancellor of the Onitsha Archdiocese, in the social media castigating Fr. Michael Chigbata and Fr. Joseph Onuorah for seeking to know and to perpetuate their Catholic origin – Latin Mass of Sacred Tradition.
I therefore, thought it twice to let you all know the truth! And to spread the truth!




Catholic Church has a tradition, that is why it is APOSTOLIC. The Latin Mass of Sacred Tradition has been from the beginning, but was codified in the COUNCIL OF TRENT by Pope St. Pius V on 14th July 1570.
However, Pope Paul VI in 1969 brought in an Experimental Mass, which is popular today as ‘Novus Ordo Missa’ It is face-me-I-face-you where a priest acts as a presider. Now using the Experimental Mass of Novus Ordo to suppress the Latin Mass of Sacred Tradition, which can never be abolished.
Archbishop Lefebvre fought vigorously to perpetuate this Latin Mass of Sacred Tradition by establishing the “Society of Saint Pius X” (SSPX), having Pope St. Pius X as a patron saint, who fought vigorously against ‘modernism.’ Modernists are those element in the Church (both clergies and laity) who seek to update the Church to conform with the world.
Seeing that Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX) would die with him, if he has no bishop to succeed him, decided to consecrate four bishops. That roused the anger of bishops of the world and he was consequently excommunicated along with the other four bishops in the year 1988.
However, in 2009 Pope Emeritus, Pope Benedict XVI lifted the ban of Excommunication on Archbishop Lefebvre (then late) along with those four bishops and the Society. Although excommunication ban was lifted the ‘Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX) refused to accept new teaching arising from the Vatican Council II. Such as ‘Lumen Gesum: The Church in the Modern World,’ that sowed the seed of ‘Ecumenism with other faith.’ SSPX rejected this doctrine because it contradicted the formal teaching from the Council of Trent: “That outside the Church (the Mystical Body of Christ), no salvation.”
Because SSPX would not embrace the doctrinal issues arising from Vatican Council II, ‘Canonical Status’ was denied to them. Canonical Status means ‘they are not in conformity with others.’
Pope Emeritus, Benedict XVI on 7th July 2007 issued an Apostolic Letter “Summorum Pontificum, which says that each Catholic priest of the Latin rite may celebrate this Latin Mass of Sacred Tradition without permission from the Apostolic See (Pope) or from his Ordinary (bishop).’
Two priests in Onitsha Archdiocese, Fr. Michael Chigbata and Fr. Joseph Onuorah willingly joined the Society of Saint Pius X, to discover and to perpetuate their origin – Latin Mass of Sacred Tradition, which almost all the Saints celebrated including Blessed Iwene Tansi. People may be labelling them with all sorts of names, but Jesus is saying: “Blessed are you when people abuse you and persecute you and speak all kinds of calumny against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven” (Mth.5:11-12).

[size=8pt]They never joined the SSPX. SSPX has her own chapels in Enugu (Priory), PH, Onitsha (Awada), Lagos, Oji River, Abuja.